AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Requizen]

12 hours ago, PJetski said:

My list is Anvilstrike:

Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Azyros (artifact)
Veritant (Teleport prayer)
Incantor
Incantor
Heraldor
3x5 Liberators
1x9 Longstrikes
2x3 Aetherwings
1x10 Evocators
Geminids
Quicksilver Swords

I'm thinking of pushing more towards your style as well. The extra 5 man Evo unit has been so hit or miss. When it hits, and it actually gets to fight, they punch way above their weight class, but when I'm forced to use them as chaff/spacing (which is more often than I'd like), they're just expensive Liberators. 

Why Swords over Shackles? Swords can come back to bite you, Shackles are great space creators and charge deniers imo.

[PJetski]

10 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I'm thinking of pushing more towards your style as well. The extra 5 man Evo unit has been so hit or miss. When it hits, and it actually gets to fight, they punch way above their weight class, but when I'm forced to use them as chaff/spacing (which is more often than I'd like), they're just expensive Liberators. 

Why Swords over Shackles? Swords can come back to bite you, Shackles are great space creators and charge deniers imo.

A few reasons. I have a lot of drops and almost never get to choose the first round turn order so I like having a predatory spell active to act as an insurance policy in case my opponents gets a double turn. Geminids cast on a 7 which is like a coin flip, so having a second predatory endless spell helps ensure something is flying around the battlefield doing damage.

I like the QSS specifically because it helps push more damage against small heroes - the 6" range is good for hitting heroes behind the frontlines like Hags and Battlesmiths. It's not usually enough to kill, but sometimes you activate twice and do the 5 mortal wounds you need to kill a small hero. 

It helps a lot versus the popular Slaanesh, Nurgle, Khorne, and Skaven armies. You can push damage on the greater daemons or even snipe smaller heroes like a Bombadier. If you ever get a game in Chamon against Chaos you will feel very good about taking QSS.

When I have both spells out I push my geminids very far into the enemy and plan my movement so they can never come back to harm me, but also make sure they end in a position that they can do a lot of damage to my enemy if I get to move them. In that situation my opponents usually move the Geminids to minimize their impact so I usually get to move the QSS safely. In the very rare case they DO come back to harm me (like if I want to move the Geminids first) it's only 12 dice doing mw on a 6 - a very low risk of any meaningful damage.

I have tried a lot of different spells and found these two are my favourite combination.

 

[Requizen]

2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

A few reasons. I have a lot of drops and almost never get to choose the first round turn order so I like having a predatory spell active to act as an insurance policy in case my opponents gets a double turn. Geminids cast on a 7 which is like a coin flip, so having a second predatory endless spell helps ensure something is flying around the battlefield doing damage.

I like the QSS specifically because it helps push more damage against small heroes - the 6" range is good for hitting heroes behind the frontlines like Hags and Battlesmiths. It's not usually enough to kill, but sometimes you activate twice and do the 5 mortal wounds you need to kill a small hero. 

It helps a lot versus the popular Slaanesh, Nurgle, Khorne, and Skaven armies. You can push damage on the greater daemons or even snipe smaller heroes like a Bombadier. If you ever get a game in Chamon against Chaos you will feel very good about taking QSS.

When I have both spells out I push my geminids very far into the enemy and plan my movement so they can never come back to harm me, but also make sure they end in a position that they can do a lot of damage to my enemy if I get to move them. In that situation my opponents usually move the Geminids to minimize their impact so I usually get to move the QSS safely. In the very rare case they DO come back to harm me (like if I want to move the Geminids first) it's only 12 dice doing mw on a 6 - a very low risk of any meaningful damage.

I have tried a lot of different spells and found these two are my favourite combination.

 

Good reasonings, thanks for the insight.

I think I'd rather have Skinks for the points, but I might try this out and see how it goes. Need some good practice before my next big event.

[crkhobbit]

16 hours ago, PJetski said:

My list is Anvilstrike:

Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Azyros (artifact)
Veritant (Teleport prayer)
Incantor
Incantor
Heraldor
3x5 Liberators
1x9 Longstrikes
2x3 Aetherwings
1x10 Evocators
Geminids
Quicksilver Swords

What's your take on the Vexillor for a guaranteed teleport without needing previous positioning instead of a Veritant?  Reroll to charge might be useful as well.

I realize you might be blowing that teleport first turn on the Longstrikes, so reusability might be important, as is the extra unbind.  Just curious to hear your take on it since the Veritant teleport is going to fail ~1/3 of the time.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, crkhobbit said:

What's your take on the Vexillor for a guaranteed teleport without needing previous positioning instead of a Veritant?  Reroll to charge might be useful as well.

I realize you might be blowing that teleport first turn on the Longstrikes, so reusability might be important, as is the extra unbind.  Just curious to hear your take on it since the Veritant teleport is going to fail ~1/3 of the time.

I prefer being able to use the teleport multiple times over the course of the game, even on a 3+, than a guaranteed once per game ability. I never rely on Translocation; I treat it as an option. I'll plan my turn ahead of time and roll for Translocation early in the hero phase so I know what options are available to me, but I always have a plan for when it fails.

If there's nothing worth shooting in range and my Translocation fails then I'll either shoot some chaff to reduce body counts for objectives, or I'll bank the command point for a future turn where I can activate both Evocators and Longstrikes in the same phase.

I have Speed of Lightning to reroll charges.

[Heaven_lord]

18 hours ago, PJetski said:

My list is Anvilstrike:

Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Azyros (artifact)
Veritant (Teleport prayer)
Incantor
Incantor
Heraldor
3x5 Liberators
1x9 Longstrikes
2x3 Aetherwings
1x10 Evocators
Geminids
Quicksilver Swords

Thanks Man

[Talunus]

I have gotten a few heroes and other units now so here's an updated list for my Cleansing Phalanx list:

Arcanum on Gryph (general, God blade)

Lord Relictor (spell:translocation)

Knight Heraldor

Lord Castellant

BATTLELINE:

1x10 Sequitors

2x5 Sequutors

OTHER

2x5 Evocators

2x5 Retributos 

 

So I'm hoping to be able to use the retributors as scary screens. Nobody that I've seen uses paladins anymore in my meta, so they won't expect these models to pop out and help screen objectives or evocator units and hopefully back off a bit.

I was debating between a Vexillar and the Relictor, I have both so what is your guess opinion on them both?

The 10 block of seqs I want to use as the main push for the army supported by the heroldar and castellant with the two heroes going back to objectives for support as needed. With arcanum, I can guarantee an empower going off on the 10 block per round for the price of a command point.

Thoughts?

 

[Serpico]

I’m playing 2k of Blisterkin FEC on Friday. He told me he has two TG’s, and a total of 6 spells/unbinds so I presume that means 2 arch regents and two other heroes. I haven’t played him yet but I know he likes knights so that means summoning more and probably running a fair number base. 

What should I bring? I’m new, but so far have run a balanced list where I bring a modest amount of shooting and surround it with a buffer block of 20 Sequitors for protection. But he has so much MW output I wonder if that’s pointless and I should just go MSU and focus on objectives.

I should mention I can ally in KO, like 20 Thunderers for extra shooting or Seraphon, maybe 20 Skinks as a screen.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Serpico

[HammerOfSigmar]

39 minutes ago, Serpico said:

I’m playing 2k of Blisterkin FEC on Friday. He told me he has two TG’s, and a total of 6 spells/unbinds so I presume that means 2 arch regents and two other heroes. I haven’t played him yet but I know he likes knights so that means summoning more and probably running a fair number base. 

What should I bring? I’m new, but so far have run a balanced list where I bring a modest amount of shooting and surround it with a buffer block of 20 Sequitors for protection. But he has so much MW output I wonder if that’s pointless and I should just go MSU and focus on objectives.

I should mention I can ally in KO, like 20 Thunderers for extra shooting or Seraphon, maybe 20 Skinks as a screen.

Do you guys use the realm artefact? I mean did he bring the ignoring attacker's rend artefact for the general dragon? If not, take the longstrike, finish the dragon before it reaches you, it is pretty hard to eliminate that general dragon without sacrificing a lot by melee combat. The non-general dragon is much easier to deal with.

Edited May 30, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar

[Roark]

On 5/29/2019 at 6:44 AM, PJetski said:

Slamming 15 Evocators into your opponent turn 1 after buffing in the hero phase is quite interesting... but it can already be done with Astral Templars 

How do you envisage Astral Templars reliably delivering Evocators in Turn 1? Dauntless Hunters + Heraldor + ?

[HammerOfSigmar]

Dauntless hunder+heraldor+cog=6"+7"+D6"+2"+2D6"=15+3D6", which is 25" on average, to make it more reliable , if the run roll is bad, spend 1CP to make it a 6", so it will be 21+2D6", which is 28" on average.

[frostfire]

@SerpicoIf not Gristlegore, I think smashing on the face with Gav would be much easier...

[frostfire]

@SerpicoIf not Gristlegore, I think smashing on the face with Gav would be much easier...

[jhamslam]

3 hours ago, Serpico said:

I’m playing 2k of Blisterkin FEC on Friday. He told me he has two TG’s, and a total of 6 spells/unbinds so I presume that means 2 arch regents and two other heroes. I haven’t played him yet but I know he likes knights so that means summoning more and probably running a fair number base. 

What should I bring? I’m new, but so far have run a balanced list where I bring a modest amount of shooting and surround it with a buffer block of 20 Sequitors for protection. But he has so much MW output I wonder if that’s pointless and I should just go MSU and focus on objectives.

I should mention I can ally in KO, like 20 Thunderers for extra shooting or Seraphon, maybe 20 Skinks as a screen.

Skinks for screen, alternatively aetherwings.

Knight Incantor is a must. That 5+ FNP is super powerful. Use the scroll if you have to auto unbind that.

Then use ballistas and/or longstrikes, take out his general. Screen his initial charge and protect your ballistas/ longstrikes with aetherwings or skinks.

[Roark]

3 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Dauntless hunder+heraldor+cog=6"+7"+D6"+2"+2D6"=15+3D6", which is 25" on average, to make it more reliable , if the run roll is bad, spend 1CP to make it a 6", so it will be 21+2D6", which is 28" on average.

Cheers. That's great range. I question the reliability of Cogs though...

[Roark]

@PJetski @HammerOfSigmar

What's your brutally-honest opinion of this list? I'd appreciate your thoughts:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Astral Templars
Lord-Relictor (100)
- General
- Trait: Dauntless Hunters 
- Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Godbeast Plate 
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
- Allies
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
- Allies
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
15 x Evocators (600)
- 15x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

[PJetski]

Why do you need Translocation in this list? Seems like the Relictor isn't worth his points here - you are already fast enough to get anywhere you wants to be, and the ballista want to drop into play together as a cluster.

Are the spellweavers there because they are cheap wizards with a guaranteed unbind?

If you are willing to take allies then I would consider an Enchantress for two spells/unbinds at 160pt and a rerollable cast on the cogs.

[HammerOfSigmar]

Same opinion, I don't think relictor is needed in your list.

[Requizen]

I had a thought about Gavriel. I have no idea how this would perform, but here's a thought:

Hammers of Sigmar

Gavriel Sureheart
Lord-Castellant (artifact)
Knight-Vexillor
Lord-Arcanum (General)

Sequitors x20
Liberators x5
Liberators x5

Evocators x10
Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricanes x3
Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricanes x3
Aetherwings x3
Aetherwings x3
Aetherwings x3

Soulsnare Shackles

1950/2000

I'm not sure what I put this together last night. It was some sort of pre-sleep delirium, but hear me out: you use the birds, Hurricanes, and Libs as MSU stuff to contest and control the midfield early (and/or a buffed brick of Sequitors, depending), forcing them to come out and contest objectives. 3 units of birds shut down all charges, basically no matter what unless they have a solid amount of shooting in the list. Then once they're moved out and split up to deal with the MSU, you hit them with the Gav countercharge.

The main downside of Gav lists atm is that there's a lot of bubblewrap. But with reasonably good anti-chaff shooting from the Hurricanes and charge-shutdown from the Aetherwings, you can mitigate a lot of the bubble wrap problem and create much better charge situations for Gav and Evos/Seqs. 

I think this can be refined (number of bird/Hurricane units, maybe don't need a full 20 on the Seqs, etc), but I'm kind of digging this idea. Basically using Gav as a Beta Strike rather than Alpha and forcing the opponent into a position where the Beta will have full effect.

[Talunus]

@Requizen why do you take vexillar over Relictor? Are you not taking the teleport banner? Or are you taking him for the charge re rolls? 

 

[Requizen]

Just now, Talunus said:

@Requizen why do you take vexillar over Relictor? Are you not taking the teleport banner? Or are you taking him for the charge re rolls? 

 

Well yeah, Pennant of the Stormbringer. I think it's almost a must take with Gav, since it lets you buff up your Sequitors on the ground and then drop them wherever you feel like on the board to work with Gavriel. And he also gives those rerolls, so you can all but guarantee a charge even by using 2 CP on the drop, a 3" rerollable is very hard to prevent. 

Translocation can be used multiple times - but the wholly within 9" restriction is very hard to use once you've charged off. If you save the Vex banner and use it later in the game for a relocate, you can get Evos or Sequitors (who are quite slow) into prime charge position, which can swing the game. Translocation is great for shooting units that you just want to shuffle around and stick near in your backfield (aka Longstrikes), but once you spread out it loses its edge.

[Talunus]

17 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Well yeah, Pennant of the Stormbringer. I think it's almost a must take with Gav, since it lets you buff up your Sequitors on the ground and then drop them wherever you feel like on the board to work with Gavriel. And he also gives those rerolls, so you can all but guarantee a charge even by using 2 CP on the drop, a 3" rerollable is very hard to prevent. 

Translocation can be used multiple times - but the wholly within 9" restriction is very hard to use once you've charged off. If you save the Vex banner and use it later in the game for a relocate, you can get Evos or Sequitors (who are quite slow) into prime charge position, which can swing the game. Translocation is great for shooting units that you just want to shuffle around and stick near in your backfield (aka Longstrikes), but once you spread out it loses its edge.

Who would you keep up in reserve in this list? Gav with the evos or seqs? Or just one of the units? 

I've never played or have seen a gav list run before so I'm not sure how the strategy works with the list

[Requizen]

6 minutes ago, Talunus said:

Who would you keep up in reserve in this list? Gav with the evos or seqs? Or just one of the units? 

I've never played or have seen a gav list run before so I'm not sure how the strategy works with the list

So the two that basically always go up are the Evocators. Then there's some choices:

• Gavriel should go up, but can stay on the board if you want to put other things up and there's no chance a chance he gets locked in place or shot off the board. Since his bubble is 12" and he can run, or even be teleported with the Vexillor, you can get cagey with his deployment, but I'd say 8/10 times you want to put him up in the sky to drop and autocharge the Evos. 
• Sequitors want to stay on the table usually. If they're standing in a bubble with the Castellant and Arcanum (who has the Hammers Trait), they're extremely hard to kill, and since you buff with the Castellant in the Hero Phase but Scions happens in the Movement Phase, it gives you a chance to buff them while in the sky they wouldn't be able to get the +1 save. You can leave them off the board, if you think there's something that can kill them early even with their toughness.
• Hurricanes want to stay off the board since their range is short. Dropping Hurricane Raptors and Aetherwings in front of enemies severely limits where they can move, and especially limits where they can charge because of the Aetherwing's ability. You get a lot of board control against armies with no ranged attacks just by putting Aetherwings in their face. 
• The Vexillor can stay off the board so he can drop in optimal position to give rerolls to charge, and since both Scions and the Pennant happen at the end of the move phase, he can even drop and then Pennant to teleport a unit on the table. 
• Arcanum and Castellant want to stay on the table since their stuff happens in the Hero Phase.
• Libs might want to go up in the sky, for some extra movement, but mainly they'll be on the table to zone out early game and cap backfield objectives.

[Talunus]

Aah ok, thanks! 

[GlanceOnASix]

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

I had a thought about Gavriel. I have no idea how this would perform, but here's a thought:

Hammers of Sigmar

Gavriel Sureheart
Lord-Castellant (artifact)
Knight-Vexillor
Lord-Arcanum (General)

Sequitors x20
Liberators x5
Liberators x5

Evocators x10
Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricanes x3
Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricanes x3
Aetherwings x3
Aetherwings x3
Aetherwings x3

Soulsnare Shackles

1950/2000

...

Looking at the list, my first though would be, dropping 1 of the Aetherwings would let you make both 5 man libs Sequitors, which makes your back field objective holders that much better.  And you'd still be able to be 6 units in the sky (as you'd go to 12 drop from 13).

Or if not that, putting the two vanguard squads together in one unit would keep the number of drops, but you'd be able to drop.

Gav/Evocators/Banner/6 man Raptor/Bird/Bird (or another bird if you kept the banner on the ground)

Edited May 30, 2019 by GlanceOnASix
Wanted to add more