AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[AdamR]

5 hours ago, Turragor said:

Im thinking of a mashup list between our two. I took mine to a larger tourney and met some really tough lists and came away with only 2 wins of 5 (lost to Spiderfang - total commitment / a mixed order list where I only lost due to my own memory of Prime's abilities / Phantasmagoria of Fate (18 disc-birds ish, ooof) - relocation orb with 4 ghur monsters.

So I think, given the performance over two tourneys, the idea of taking a big character heavy list has legs, buuut I need more bodies. I think I can drop the dracoths (even if I LOVE them). Fulminators whiff, thats what they do. It is like a magic 3+ roll for them, not like other 3+s. I usually end up landing 2 hits on average from the 3+ 3+. The odds are weird!

Thinking maybe:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Wind Runner
15 x Liberators (300)
- Warhammers
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102

I might also take ethereal amulet on stardrake so that I dont worry about SD range on general and castellant buff range.

Thoughts?

 

i find that my Evocators do a lot of heavy lifting. Electrocuting Nagash in the face for example. Or murdering Phoenixes. Or Stardrakes that don't have Ignax's Scales!

Will the Celestant-Prime be able to make up the shortfall? I know he's cheaper, but he's also 22 fewer wounds!

 

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

The issue with the Exorcist is that it sucks. It doesn't just compare badly, even if he was our ONLY Wizard I probably wouldn't use him because both his Casket and spell are both garbage. I'd prefer to ally in a wizard or just take Evos/Vertiants for dispels. If any unit needs an honest-to-goodness buff to their Warscroll, it's the Exorcist. The casket being a 4+ for 1 MW on only specific units within 6" is a freaking joke, and the spell maybe only be worth it if it was like 12" instead of 6". 

Increase both ranges, make the Casket affect all targets and just do extra to Ghosts/Daemons. Even then for the same price I don't think he'd be better than the Incantor or foot Arcanum for +40. 

Never taken one not against spooks-cos why would you-but used him instead of Incantor against Nighthaunt this week in a game I won. Lack of auto dispel didn’t matter cos they had nothing of worth to cast and he took a decent bite out of some heroes and units with his holiness. Didn’t feel Incantors absence on this occasion.

Just 1000 points though so the more compact field definitely allowed his influence to tell more, and everything he rolled went off , obviously he’s not a reliable source of damage. Not saying he would do anything in larger games. 

[Turragor]

2 hours ago, AdamR said:

i find that my Evocators do a lot of heavy lifting. Electrocuting Nagash in the face for example. Or murdering Phoenixes. Or Stardrakes that don't have Ignax's Scales!

Will the Celestant-Prime be able to make up the shortfall? I know he's cheaper, but he's also 22 fewer wounds!

 

That is a good question. I find the prime has a lot of flexibility which I love but he perhaps doesn't murder anything. He's great laid on top of heraldor and rain of stars. He's also intimidating for the opponent when left off the board. And if I left him until r3 he might be a real slugger.

But yes he is very glass-like.

I will start painting up evocators after sequitors anyway so Ill be trying more things out!

Thanks for the feedback.

[Roark]

9 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

The relictor is appropriately costed now, he’s still be worth 120 to be fair 

I agree. Although, I'd like a useful 80pt buffing character purely on the basis of list-writing maths haha. Too often I find myself with an awkward 80 left over and no appetite for a little Castigators throwaway or investment in Endless Spells for my lone wizard char.

[XReN]

16 hours ago, azoxystrobin said:

On the subject of Vanguard (hunters, palladors, zephyros, raptors etc) I was wondering; is there anything that could be done to make them at least viable?

I'd suggest jumping around with big unit of palladors with Lord Aquilor using Celestial Vindicators as your stormhost, ths way you can throw some buffs turn one, throw them across the table with aquilor, charge, give them +1 attack and rerolls for charge. Repeat every turn, that is going to eat a lot of CPs, but can be powerfull

[XReN]

And you can also change target for Aethereal Stalker mount trait because when you use his CA you set him up

[TomParry84]

Palladors work in a Vindicators stormhost, the re-roll 1s on the charge makes them very viable and gives them what they lack. Could still do with comin down 20 points though.

[TomParry84]

19 hours ago, azoxystrobin said:

On the subject of Vanguard (hunters, palladors, zephyros, raptors etc) I was wondering; is there anything that could be done to make them at least viable?
Tactics, placing, spacing, target priority, artefacts, unit choices and even which Stormhost.
I have a load of Vanguard to paint up and this is a good opportunity to pick something that isn't Hammers of Sigmar.
So here are my thoughts on the matter, please feel free to tell me where I am wrong and/or missing something, because I probably am.

Hammers of Sigmar: 
Abilities:  +1 Bravery seems nice, but it doesn't make much difference.
Command ability: doesn't work on vanguard. 
Command trait: Requires the general to be nearby, so it could be ok i guess. On the raptors at the back with a general to buff / protect them
Artefact:  meh it's a tax.
TL;DR: Don't do much for Vanguard anyway, and Gavriel has better units to use his abilities on.

Celestial vindicators:
Abilities: Re-rolling 1's to hit on the charge is always nice especially on units that land within 7" of enemy units at the end of the movement phase so miss out on hero phase buffs. units that shoot then charge. Also for Palladors that can have quite a few attacks.
Command ability: Requires a hero nearby, but +1 attack is always nice.
Command trait: Could combo nicely with the artefact on a Lord Aquilor or a Knight Zephyros.
Artefact: Combos with the trait.
TL;DR: Could be a good choice, killy heros, and buffs that Vanguard usually don't get. This could be better on other units, but the point of this fruitless exercise is Vanguard units  

Anvils of Heldenhammer:
Abilities: Re-rolling bravery tests yeah whatevs.
Command ability: Vanguards all have ranged weapons, some of them (raptors) even have good ranged weapons, so being able to shoot or pile in and attack during the hero phase is amazingly good.
Command trait: Nice I suppose if combo'd with something else that reduces bravery for a possible bravery bomb, because some things like spoopy spooks have high bravery but aren't actually immune to battleshock, so it might actually be useful. Then again 6" bubble is small.
Artefact: Dishing out mortal wounds is always nice.
TL;DR: Again, plausibly a good choice, but eugh I couldn't bear to paint black armour.

Astral Templars:
Abilities: +1 to hit is great for melee and shooting (longstrike raptors will like this) but only against monsters...
Command ability: Maybe a bit too specific, But will come in handy against a monster + hero keyword. especially if it's a zephyros with a sword of judgement! On the other hand if the case doesn't come up often, then that leaves CPs to do other things.
Command trait: It seems good, but is it really for Vanguard? One downside is that it's one use only, specifically at the start of the game, so which units start on the table and would require a 6" move before the game starts?
Artefact: A bit too specific to be consistently useful, but ok.
TL;DR:  These are supposed to be the feral ones. Red armour, etched marking, battle damage, muck, exotic furs. Fun to paint but will there be enough monsters across the board to make it worth it?

I also wanted to ask about bataillons, but that could wait for later.
Thanks for all and any input.

Palladors work in a Vindicators stormhost, the re-roll 1s on the charge makes them very viable and gives them what they lack. Could still do with comin down 20 points though.

[Nos]

1 hour ago, xking said:

Yeah there's no rule saying you have to paint your stormcast as the stormhost. Who's rules you are using.

However, It's like painting blood angels blue. 

Really isn’t.

Blood Angels are a separate army. Different units, rules, abilities, characters, army book. You would have to get explicit permission to use a non-Blood Angels proxy and use their rules.

Stormhost rules are explicitly allowed to be applied to any Stormcast army.  The listed chambers are achertypes that give an example of the different ways in which the multiple Chambers are organised, their character, motivation, how they fight etc. They are a tactical allegiance just like those in the other Battletimes, there to provide character, different synergies and inspirations for how to play and paint your models etc. They are nothing like as established or realised as any of the founding Space Marine chapters. They’re an optional flavourful add-on, not a distinct, unique identity.

Quite a bit different.

[stato]

13 minutes ago, xking said:

I'm talking about lore. Rules wise, yes you can paint your stormcast Blue and give them the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost abilities.

And each stormhost does have an identity. I think the most recent battletome did a good job at expanding the lore for each of the stormhost.

I agree.  While they are all still in the same book it cant be long before that might change, we know Hammers are getting extra rules in Feb WD, just like Crimson Fists did in Jan.  They (along with lots of other codex chapters) are very clearly distinctive with their own background and some rules, but their core rules are in a shared book.

Stormhosts are obviously not as well known as marine chapters that have been around since the 90's (or longer), but that doesnt mean Stormhosts can be dismissed.

 

*I have zero issue with an opponent playing as different Stormhosts (or marine chapters) to what they are painted, as long as im told beforehand.

[Nos]

1 hour ago, xking said:

I'm talking about lore. Rules wise, yes you can paint your stormcast Blue and give them the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost abilities. I just think it's weird.

And each stormhost does have an identity. I think the most recent battletome did a good job at expanding the lore for each of the stormhost.

 

59 minutes ago, stato said:

I agree.  While they are all still in the same book it cant be long before that might change, we know Hammers are getting extra rules in Feb WD, just like Crimson Fists did in Jan.  They (along with lots of other codex chapters) are very clearly distinctive with their own background and some rules, but their core rules are in a shared book.

Stormhosts are obviously not as well known as marine chapters that have been around since the 90's (or longer), but that doesnt mean Stormhosts can be dismissed.

 

*I have zero issue with an opponent playing as different Stormhosts (or marine chapters) to what they are painted, as long as im told beforehand.

You seriously think they’re going to release a Hammers of Sigmar book “before long” when there’s over a dozen armies without a proper tome at all including multiple key AOS factions?  I doubt it.

[Nos]

1 hour ago, xking said:

I'm talking about lore. Rules wise, yes you can paint your stormcast Blue and give them the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost abilities. I just think it's weird.

And each stormhost does have an identity. I think the most recent battletome did a good job at expanding the lore for each of the stormhost.

 

59 minutes ago, stato said:

I agree.  While they are all still in the same book it cant be long before that might change, we know Hammers are getting extra rules in Feb WD, just like Crimson Fists did in Jan.  They (along with lots of other codex chapters) are very clearly distinctive with their own background and some rules, but their core rules are in a shared book.

Stormhosts are obviously not as well known as marine chapters that have been around since the 90's (or longer), but that doesnt mean Stormhosts can be dismissed.

 

*I have zero issue with an opponent playing as different Stormhosts (or marine chapters) to what they are painted, as long as im told beforehand.

You seriously think they’re going to release a Hammers of Sigmar book “before long” when there’s over a dozen armies without a proper tome at all including multiple key AOS factions?  I doubt it.

[stato]

Just now, Nos said:

 

You seriously think they’re going to release a Hammers of Sigmar book “before long” when there’s over a dozen armies without a proper tome at all including multiple key AOS factions?  I doubt it.

Honestly?  yes.   The internet constantly harps on about how x and y faction need update and that GW should spread its love around, but that completely ignores the clearly obvious focus GW puts on developing their headline factions, the ones that are very carefully designed to draw in new people across hundreds of stores and entirely new markets.  This approach works, it sells lots, look at GW sales figures, their shareholders demand it, and they speak louder than the internet. 

You may consider otherwise, thats fine, neither of us have any influence on this at all (unless you own a good enough % of GW shares to have a say at the general meeting).

This is getting away from the topic. Paint schemes are flexible and only enforced by who you choose to play or where you choose to play (some tournaments may require correct schemes).

[Nos]

34 minutes ago, stato said:

Honestly?  yes.   The internet constantly harps on about how x and y faction need update and that GW should spread its love around, but that completely ignores the clearly obvious focus GW puts on developing their headline factions, the ones that are very carefully designed to draw in new people across hundreds of stores and entirely new markets.  This approach works, it sells lots, look at GW sales figures, their shareholders demand it, and they speak louder than the internet. 

You may consider otherwise, thats fine, neither of us have any influence on this at all (unless you own a good enough % of GW shares to have a say at the general meeting).

This is getting away from the topic. Paint schemes are flexible and only enforced by who you choose to play or where you choose to play (some tournaments may require correct schemes).

Tournaments sure if it’s in their rules beforehand as a house rules thing. But paint schemes for Stormcast arent enforced by anything otherwise, the rules state you can make any Stormcast a member of a listed Host if you give them the keyword and then they have to abide by the associated rules.

If someone objects to that then of course I’d always encourage a conversation to reach a compromise but strictly speaking they’re not entitled to object to you playing Anvils as Hammers etc.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Nos

[schwabbele]

Lol enforcing paint schemes... 

And those measly one / half side special rules we have now will warrant new books ?? 

[CountryMou3e]

6 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Lol enforcing paint schemes... 

smells like a 9th ager to me

[chord]

Enforcing paint schemes would be a terrible idea!

Remember most stormcast players had armies way before stormhost rules

[schwabbele]

49 minutes ago, chord said:

Enforcing paint schemes would be a terrible idea!

Remember most stormcast players had armies way before stormhost rules

For me its more like removing the soul of the hobby... imagine 80% of sce armies looking the same.... kinda horrible to even think about it 🙃

[Mark Williams]

If you take a different color stormhost as another one just so you can use their rules and a gimmick you came up with, I’m free to think that’s a bit beardy. But yes you can do whatever you want, of course. You can have blue blood angels too.

[Turragor]

5 hours ago, Nos said:

 

You seriously think they’re going to release a Hammers of Sigmar book “before long” when there’s over a dozen armies without a proper tome at all including multiple key AOS factions?  I doubt it.

I've seen this sentiment a bunch but it isn't reflected in how projects are pitched, developed and released in a big company. It seldom makes sense. 

Even if everything was in the appropriate priority at inception, things get delayed and things get ahead of schedule. 

[Nos]

43 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I've seen this sentiment a bunch but it isn't reflected in how projects are pitched, developed and released in a big company. It seldom makes sense. 

Even if everything was in the appropriate priority at inception, things get delayed and things get ahead of schedule. 

Oh I'd be the first person to tell anyone that GW releases things on the basis of business decision pretty much exclusively. 

But I really don't follow the logic behind the idea that they're gong to take something already popular-Stormcast-invest money in *changing it*, even slightly, and release it as a separate faction to  directly compete with the thing that sells really well. To strengthen my argument, I would point to the squatted Chamber accessory packs as Exhibit B. 

[Turragor]

11 hours ago, Nos said:

Oh I'd be the first person to tell anyone that GW releases things on the basis of business decision pretty much exclusively. 

But I really don't follow the logic behind the idea that they're gong to take something already popular-Stormcast-invest money in *changing it*, even slightly, and release it as a separate faction to  directly compete with the thing that sells really well. To strengthen my argument, I would point to the squatted Chamber accessory packs as Exhibit B. 

Oh I see what you mean. I was thinking more that what we sometimes see now is stuff already in planning  for sc pre AoS launch.

So not reflective of how much attention things get and how sc releases can ruffle feathers. 

Stuff that gw would swap for something else for goodwill if they could but the work is already done and now it's just reaching fruition. So it's a choice of not releasing anything or releasing sc models. 

[azoxystrobin]

On 1/25/2019 at 8:20 AM, XReN said:

And you can also change target for Aethereal Stalker mount trait because when you use his CA you set him up

Nicely spotted !
That works whatever the stormhost too. I was initially thinking of taking the one that gives +1 dice for aetheric winds, but it sure isn't as good as aethereal stalker.

On 1/25/2019 at 11:29 AM, xking said:

Yeah there's no rule saying you have to paint your stormcast as the stormhost. Who's rules you are using.

However, It's like painting blood angels blue. 

Yeah this is the thing really, for me it's less of a question of how good they are going to be on the table (they're vanguard, so they won't hold a candle to Sequitors and Evocators) But more of a question how to get something interesting both in painting and playing. I will probably add units in Hammers of Sigmar colours if required, just as I might use Celestial vindicator units in a Hammers of Sigmar list. I'll say they friends popping over for tea or something.

[mooseboy18]

how are judicators and castigators currently doing?

[schwabbele]

36 minutes ago, mooseboy18 said:

how are judicators and castigators currently doing?

I think Judicators are okayish, because the Prime is basically the heavy lifter of the unit, but castigators I can't see myself using anytime soon.