AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[James S]

Hey fellas, got a quick question for y’all. How do yalls Castelants and Relictors pray twice a turn? I can’t find the rules that allow this. Just looking for some rules clarification. Appreciate any help.

[Requizen]

8 minutes ago, James S said:

Hey fellas, got a quick question for y’all. How do yalls Castelants and Relictors pray twice a turn? I can’t find the rules that allow this. Just looking for some rules clarification. Appreciate any help.

Castellants aren't Priests, so they can't pray. If someone is playing them with Translocation, they're doing it wrong.

Relictors can use the Prayer that they select from Prayers of the Stormhost as outlined in those rules. The Abilities on their Warscroll are not Prayers, they're just used in the Hero Phase. In either case, one does not preclude the other. 

[Mark Williams]

12 minutes ago, James S said:

Hey fellas, got a quick question for y’all. How do yalls Castelants and Relictors pray twice a turn? I can’t find the rules that allow this. Just looking for some rules clarification. Appreciate any help.

The old prayers were turned into abilities. They use a prayer and an ability now.

[Black Blade]

35 minutes ago, James S said:

Hey fellas, got a quick question for y’all. How do yalls Castelants and Relictors pray twice a turn? I can’t find the rules that allow this. Just looking for some rules clarification. Appreciate any help.

Its more like there are no limiters other than "the same prayer cannot be prayed for more than once a turn." Therefore if they have a prayer on their warscroll and a prayer gained from faction abilities they can use both. You will notice on some warscrolls like the relictor they have two prayers on their scroll but their scroll limits to either or per turn. 

Also, regrettably, Castellants are not priests. So they have no prayers. 

[Nos]

3 hours ago, Twh30 said:

Hiya what do people think of this list ?

The Vanguard Conclave is unlikely to do much for you, I would drop it and take another unit of Judicators, unless it’s there to facilitate the single drop. You’re missing an artefact looks like. Scroll of condemnation might be fun with an Anvils list. 

It will be a lot of fun to use, but it will require a ton of coordination to work well . For a shooting anvils list you’re lacking one big repeat option. One unit of Judicators or a Ballista firing twice is nice but unlikely to be seismic. Against something that hits hard and fast or is able to deep strike you’ll likely encounter problems as you don’t really have anything there to brace against shock troops or defend  held objectives for long. There’s also an absence of Mortal Wounds which is key against certain units. And against Sylvaneth you’re going to be very frustrated!

You could try getting rid of the Heart renders and Judicators, swap them for a unit of 6 Raptors with Hurricanes Crossbows who can make the most of the Anvils ability and a value unit of Sequitors, Or even get a Zephyros with Sword of Judgement or Venator in there for hero/monster hunting.  Judicators are good because their range allows them to contribute while capping but this looks like the kind of list where the enemy will be coming to you. The comet is powerful but because you have a list which discourages the enemy standing still you’ll have to repeat cast to really get it to work which is a pretty big gamble with only one caster. A unit of Liberators for the same price will provide you with more of a tactical base to anchor the rest of your tricksy maneouvures. 

What are your thoughts behind it? It looks like the vanguard theme is something you’re going for so I’ve tried to respect that in my suggestions.

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Nos

[Twh30]

5 hours ago, Nos said:

The Vanguard Conclave is unlikely to do much for you, I would drop it and take another unit of Judicators, unless it’s there to facilitate the single drop. You’re missing an artefact looks like. Scroll of condemnation might be fun with an Anvils list. 

It will be a lot of fun to use, but it will require a ton of coordination to work well . For a shooting anvils list you’re lacking one big repeat option. One unit of Judicators or a Ballista firing twice is nice but unlikely to be seismic. Against something that hits hard and fast or is able to deep strike you’ll likely encounter problems as you don’t really have anything there to brace against shock troops or defend  held objectives for long. There’s also an absence of Mortal Wounds which is key against certain units. And against Sylvaneth you’re going to be very frustrated!

You could try getting rid of the Heart renders and Judicators, swap them for a unit of 6 Raptors with Hurricanes Crossbows who can make the most of the Anvils ability and a value unit of Sequitors, Or even get a Zephyros with Sword of Judgement or Venator in there for hero/monster hunting.  Judicators are good because their range allows them to contribute while capping but this looks like the kind of list where the enemy will be coming to you. The comet is powerful but because you have a list which discourages the enemy standing still you’ll have to repeat cast to really get it to work which is a pretty big gamble with only one caster. A unit of Liberators for the same price will provide you with more of a tactical base to anchor the rest of your tricksy maneouvures. 

What are your thoughts behind it? It looks like the vanguard theme is something you’re going for so I’ve tried to respect that in my suggestions.

 

Your right I was looking to get the drops down. I’m new to stormcast and really looking to go for a full on shooting list while letting other units grab objectives ie heartrenders . I am not altogether set on the vanguard theme so am open to any suggestions .

[Mark Williams]

I really like the vanguard models and I would like to play around with building a themed army around them some day. I understand the attraction of them. I wouldn’t mind if GW took a second look at them some day.

[mmmbbb3]

hi everyone, i really like the les martin stardrake list, do we have a good modern version of it?

Edited January 24, 2019 by mmmbbb3

[Turragor]

On 1/7/2019 at 10:35 AM, AdamR said:

I took my list from last years GT final

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
Lord-Celestant On Stardrake (560)
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

Played against  Seraphon, Daughters of Khaine and 20 evocator/20 sequitor Garviel bomb.

Im thinking of a mashup list between our two. I took mine to a larger tourney and met some really tough lists and came away with only 2 wins of 5 (lost to Spiderfang - total commitment / a mixed order list where I only lost due to my own memory of Prime's abilities / Phantasmagoria of Fate (18 disc-birds ish, ooof) - relocation orb with 4 ghur monsters.

So I think, given the performance over two tourneys, the idea of taking a big character heavy list has legs, buuut I need more bodies. I think I can drop the dracoths (even if I LOVE them). Fulminators whiff, thats what they do. It is like a magic 3+ roll for them, not like other 3+s. I usually end up landing 2 hits on average from the 3+ 3+. The odds are weird!

Thinking maybe:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Wind Runner
15 x Liberators (300)
- Warhammers
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102

I might also take ethereal amulet on stardrake so that I dont worry about SD range on general and castellant buff range.

Thoughts?

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Turragor

[chord]

15 hours ago, Requizen said:

Nah, I think both Warscrolls are fine as is. Arcanum + Sequitors is great thematically.

The main issue, I think, is that having a brick unit (either Libs or Seqs) is too valuable in general, and having a Wizard is too valuable in general. This makes Sequitors a non-question, since if you're taking a Wizard (and you want at least one if not two), you're probably gonna take an Arcanum. And if you're taking him, might as well make him the General for Seq Battlelines.

One thing they could do is make the other Wizards more attractive. The Exorcist is way too overpointed, he should be 110 at best, probably 100. Incantor probably could stand to go down as well - the auto-dispel is really good, but most people go Arcanum anyways (or in addition) because the mounted versions are so much better. Heck, making the Veritant more affordable might make taking a Wizard less necessary because he can dispel (he should be 100 imo).

They could also make other Heroes more attractive as General options.
-LCoD should make Concussors and/or Fulminators Battleline, should have since the start.
-Zephyros General should make Hunters Battleline as well, so you're not forced into the (imo overcosted) Aquilor General. Or an Aquilor foot version.
-Give some of the other Heroes CAs or abilities that only work if they're the General. Celestant on Foot generates an extra CP on 4+, but only if you're the General. Venator has a CA to give out ranged rerolls to nearby Stormcast, but only usable if the model is the General. That sort of thing.

They could even split the Command Traits up for different groups like they do in other books. If Staunch was only available to "wave 1 Heroes" (Castellants, Celestants, Relictors, etc), then Arcanums wouldn't be nearly as ubiquitous. Or they would, but then you wouldn't get the great Staunch combo with Sequitor blocks.

 

IMO it's not that Arcanum + Sequitors is just too good not to take, it's that there's no incentive to take other stuff. You're probably going to take an Arcanum due to the nature of the game (Endless Spells, Realm Spells, etc), and he'll probably be your General since there's no reason to make anyone else your General unless you're doing Stardrake shenanigans. Other options, while still strong, are not as appealing, because making Sequitors into Battleline just fits into the army anyways. If there were other reasons not to make the Arcanum into the General, it would still be seen (10 man Sequitors are great anyways), but it wouldn't be a given.

I totally agree on LCoD should make them battle line.  I feel this is an oversight as the chamber was released prior to GHB and should be corrected.

Good idea on the Zephyros General making hunters battle line...I like it!

The Exorcist should be 100 and even then not sure he's worth it.  The Veritant has always been overpriced for their abilities.  Maybe increase the ranges vs lowering points?

I also agree that there are too few CA's. 

[PJetski]

I don't think he would be used even at 100 points.

Exorcist would be worth it if they added the PRIEST keyword. A wizard+priest for 140 points would be quite good.

[XReN]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

I might also take ethereal amulet on stardrake so that I dont worry about SD range on general and castellant buff range.

Thoughts?

I don't know, going 1+ save 4+ against MWs looks better because of how easy it is to burn through stardrake with MWs

[Turragor]

16 minutes ago, XReN said:

I don't know, going 1+ save 4+ against MWs looks better because of how easy it is to burn through stardrake with MWs

I thought that yeah, but I'm thinking it is possible (with how I use the drake) that I'll get out of buff range and I'll end up meeting 12 enlightened and getting toasted without mw. There's more that can put out raw wounds in numbers than mw in numbers. OR I can learn to keep my SD near castellant and Arcanum (but Id like to buff the big lib unit too...)

 

[XReN]

3 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I thought that yeah, but I'm thinking it is possible (with how I use the drake) that I'll get out of buff range and I'll end up meeting 12 enlightened and getting toasted without mw. There's more that can put out raw wounds in numbers than mw in numbers. OR I can learn to keep my SD near castellant and Arcanum (but Id like to buff the big lib unit too...)

 

Yeah, I guess if you don't run SD on your LCoSD it's a different story

[Turragor]

20 minutes ago, XReN said:

Yeah, I guess if you don't run SD on your LCoSD it's a different story

Im tempted to forget sequitors as battleline but I feel like trying em. Then I can leave out the arcanum or just demote him.

Are 10 seqs a good take as like your 'other'? same points as 2 fulms but other options might outdo them. At the same time they are bodies and wounds which are nice.

 

[Nos]

54 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I don't think he would be used even at 100 points.

Exorcist would be worth it if they added the PRIEST keyword. A wizard+priest for 140 points would be quite good.

But would also make both wizard and relictor largely defunct. Why take either when you can take one guy who does both.

Remove wizard but make him a priest, make Purifying blast an ability, and give him one dispel per turn, then he’s about right I would say.

[PJetski]

20 minutes ago, Nos said:

But would also make both wizard and relictor largely defunct. Why take either when you can take one guy who does both.

Remove wizard but make him a priest, make Purifying blast an ability, and give him one dispel per turn, then he’s about right I would say.

That design overlaps too much with the Veritant.

If the Exorcist was a Priest people would still use a Relictor because he is 40pt cheaper, fits into different battalions, and has his healing/-1hit prayers.

[azoxystrobin]

On the subject of Vanguard (hunters, palladors, zephyros, raptors etc) I was wondering; is there anything that could be done to make them at least viable?
Tactics, placing, spacing, target priority, artefacts, unit choices and even which Stormhost.
I have a load of Vanguard to paint up and this is a good opportunity to pick something that isn't Hammers of Sigmar.
So here are my thoughts on the matter, please feel free to tell me where I am wrong and/or missing something, because I probably am.

Hammers of Sigmar: 
Abilities:  +1 Bravery seems nice, but it doesn't make much difference.
Command ability: doesn't work on vanguard. 
Command trait: Requires the general to be nearby, so it could be ok i guess. On the raptors at the back with a general to buff / protect them
Artefact:  meh it's a tax.
TL;DR: Don't do much for Vanguard anyway, and Gavriel has better units to use his abilities on.

Celestial vindicators:
Abilities: Re-rolling 1's to hit on the charge is always nice especially on units that land within 7" of enemy units at the end of the movement phase so miss out on hero phase buffs. units that shoot then charge. Also for Palladors that can have quite a few attacks.
Command ability: Requires a hero nearby, but +1 attack is always nice.
Command trait: Could combo nicely with the artefact on a Lord Aquilor or a Knight Zephyros.
Artefact: Combos with the trait.
TL;DR: Could be a good choice, killy heros, and buffs that Vanguard usually don't get. This could be better on other units, but the point of this fruitless exercise is Vanguard units  

Anvils of Heldenhammer:
Abilities: Re-rolling bravery tests yeah whatevs.
Command ability: Vanguards all have ranged weapons, some of them (raptors) even have good ranged weapons, so being able to shoot or pile in and attack during the hero phase is amazingly good.
Command trait: Nice I suppose if combo'd with something else that reduces bravery for a possible bravery bomb, because some things like spoopy spooks have high bravery but aren't actually immune to battleshock, so it might actually be useful. Then again 6" bubble is small.
Artefact: Dishing out mortal wounds is always nice.
TL;DR: Again, plausibly a good choice, but eugh I couldn't bear to paint black armour.

Astral Templars:
Abilities: +1 to hit is great for melee and shooting (longstrike raptors will like this) but only against monsters...
Command ability: Maybe a bit too specific, But will come in handy against a monster + hero keyword. especially if it's a zephyros with a sword of judgement! On the other hand if the case doesn't come up often, then that leaves CPs to do other things.
Command trait: It seems good, but is it really for Vanguard? One downside is that it's one use only, specifically at the start of the game, so which units start on the table and would require a 6" move before the game starts?
Artefact: A bit too specific to be consistently useful, but ok.
TL;DR:  These are supposed to be the feral ones. Red armour, etched marking, battle damage, muck, exotic furs. Fun to paint but will there be enough monsters across the board to make it worth it?

I also wanted to ask about bataillons, but that could wait for later.
Thanks for all and any input.

[PJetski]

Why would Longstrikes like +1 hit against Monsters? They already hit on 2+ and their mortal wounds happen on an unmodified 6+.

Most armies these days have Monsters but Astral Templars are good even without Monsters on the board. The free 6" move at the start of the game is invaluable for getting slower units like Sequitors and Evocators into a turn 1 charge range, and +1 to wound rolls against HERO is a strong command ability.

The problem is that Vanguard Hunters are not powerful enough to justify building a list around them, and they are only worth using when they are battleline. I would probably use them if they were "Battleline in a Stormcast Eternals army" like Judicators.

[Nos]

25 minutes ago, PJetski said:

That design overlaps too much with the Veritant.

If the Exorcist was a Priest people would still use a Relictor because he is 40pt cheaper, fits into different battalions, and has his healing/-1hit prayers.

The cheaper bit is moot because with your proposal you’re not paying 40 points extra for a priest, your’e either paying 100 for a priest + 40 for a wizard or vice versa. A wizard who can dispel, cast a spell and a prayer once per turn, for 140 points, you can’t tell me that’s balanced. 

The exorcist in my mind should by virtue of design be something you take against ghosts and demons, and the Veritant against spell casters. Neither should be a default, they’re specialists. Make the exorcist a priest, so he gets an ability to do D3 mortal wounds to a Nighthaunt or demon battleline without having to cast it, plus a dispel and a prayer, I think he’s good for what he’s meant to do. 

That way you have

Relictor- Chaplain

Exorcist- Ghostbuster

 Veritant- Witch Hunter

 

 

[Requizen]

I was just talking about SCE with my gaming group last night, and they were laughing because the biggest weakness of Stormcast is that we have too many units for each one to be useful.

Meanwhile, there are literally like 8 units in both Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz, which for a long time was THE "mainline" Destruction armies. That's probably Gitz now, and even as a soup Battletome they have less units than ours. Suffering from success, indeed.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, Nos said:

The cheaper bit is moot because with your proposal you’re not paying 40 points extra for a priest, your’e either paying 100 for a priest + 40 for a wizard or vice versa. A wizard who can dispel, cast a spell and a prayer once per turn, for 140 points, you can’t tell me that’s balanced. 

Compare it to the Incantor which also costs 140. Incantor has a much better spell, Spirit Flasks, and a dispel scroll.

The issue here is that the Relictor is overpriced. I haven't used him since they raised it to 100. If they dropped the Relictor back to 80 then an Exorcist with PRIEST keyword at 140 would be fine.

[Nos]

12 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Compare it to the Incantor which also costs 140. Incantor has a much better spell, Spirit Flasks, and a dispel scroll.

The issue here is that the Relictor is overpriced. I haven't used him since they raised it to 100. If they dropped the Relictor back to 80 then an Exorcist with PRIEST keyword at 140 would be fine.

In that scenario sure. But you didn’t suggest Reluctors should be reduced in price hence my 40 points observation. 

@azoxystrobin

You don’t need to paint your guys black to use Anvils, there’s no uniform limitation to taking the Stormhosts. Strictly speaking you can take a Hammers army and play them as Anvils. So don’t let all that get in the way of painting your dudes as you wish!

[Requizen]

The issue with the Exorcist is that it sucks. It doesn't just compare badly, even if he was our ONLY Wizard I probably wouldn't use him because both his Casket and spell are both garbage. I'd prefer to ally in a wizard or just take Evos/Vertiants for dispels. If any unit needs an honest-to-goodness buff to their Warscroll, it's the Exorcist. The casket being a 4+ for 1 MW on only specific units within 6" is a freaking joke, and the spell maybe only be worth it if it was like 12" instead of 6". 

Increase both ranges, make the Casket affect all targets and just do extra to Ghosts/Daemons. Even then for the same price I don't think he'd be better than the Incantor or foot Arcanum for +40. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Requizen

[CountryMou3e]

33 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Compare it to the Incantor which also costs 140. Incantor has a much better spell, Spirit Flasks, and a dispel scroll.

The issue here is that the Relictor is overpriced. I haven't used him since they raised it to 100. If they dropped the Relictor back to 80 then an Exorcist with PRIEST keyword at 140 would be fine.

The relictor is appropriately costed now, he’s still be worth 120 to be fair