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AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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2 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

A question I had a few days ago when playing. Does your unit of sequitors need to have models with shields to be abel to use the ability to re-roll all failed save rolls?

I believe they does. You “choose shields”, they “enpower shields” and it is done “instead of rerolling ones” which deys they need shields.

A6EE74F4-E2CC-44F2-A53F-C01554925342.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Orzo said:

I believe they does. You “choose shields”, they “enpower shields” and it is done “instead of rerolling ones” which deys they need shields.

A6EE74F4-E2CC-44F2-A53F-C01554925342.jpeg

To further add to the confusion though the Warscroll also states that they can replace their weapon with a greatmace, not both weapon and shield. There’s also a Prime Model holding a Great Mace and a Redmemption Cache 🙃

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2 hours ago, Nos said:

To further add to the confusion though the Warscroll also states that they can replace their weapon with a greatmace, not both weapon and shield. There’s also a Prime Model holding a Great Mace and a Redmemption Cache 🙃

What, really? What model's that? As far as I'm aware there's only one model with a Redemption Cache 

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2 hours ago, robinlvalentine said:

What, really? What model's that? As far as I'm aware there's only one model with a Redemption Cache 

I always thought that was supposed to be what this guy was doing. Otherwise he’s just particularly attached to his necklace maybe I dunno 

E5572639-87EB-42C6-905A-4EA0D200168F.jpeg

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48 minutes ago, Orzo said:

Nah, this is not a redeption cache. That guy just likes his necklace and wants to show it to others.

 

You can build two redeption caches from normal sequitor box.

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But it’s still confusing because it says you can arm the Prime with a cache if they have a weapon and shield but the models with caches have neither!

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6 minutes ago, Nos said:

But it’s still confusing because it says you can arm the Prime with a cache if they have a weapon and shield but the models with caches have neither!

You can give it shield, I simply did not - I will put the shield on his back and his sword to a scabbard.

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10 hours ago, Nos said:

I always thought that was supposed to be what this guy was doing. Otherwise he’s just particularly attached to his necklace maybe I dunno 

E5572639-87EB-42C6-905A-4EA0D200168F.jpeg

Yeah no that's just an amulet. A Redemption Cache is a pretty large box.

If you build your Prime with a Redemption Cache, then they carry the shield in their left hand and have a sheathed weapon at their waist - so they are definitely equipped with those weapons, GW has thought of that. 

The rules are very clear that you can't have a shield and a Greatmace. What it says on the Warscroll is that Sequitors may choose one weapon option, either a maul and shield or a sword and shield, and 2 in every 5 models may replace that weapon option with a Greatmace. So you're replacing both the one handed weapon and the shield with the Greatmace - give it another read. 

Hope that's helpful! 

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5 hours ago, robinlvalentine said:

Yeah no that's just an amulet. A Redemption Cache is a pretty large box.

If you build your Prime with a Redemption Cache, then they carry the shield in their left hand and have a sheathed weapon at their waist - so they are definitely equipped with those weapons, GW has thought of that. 

The rules are very clear that you can't have a shield and a Greatmace. What it says on the Warscroll is that Sequitors may choose one weapon option, either a maul and shield or a sword and shield, and 2 in every 5 models may replace that weapon option with a Greatmace. So you're replacing both the one handed weapon and the shield with the Greatmace - give it another read. 

Hope that's helpful! 

It is thanks.

Still can’t get over that dude being so into his jewellery. He’s even wielding his weapon sub-optimally just so he can show it off. All of your mates have one too man.

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44 minutes ago, Nos said:

It is thanks.

Still can’t get over that dude being so into his jewellery. He’s even wielding his weapon sub-optimally just so he can show it off. All of your mates have one too man.

Visually, it's supposed to evoke Catholic rosary beads - to drill home the idea that Sequitors are like priests/clerics. As he's raising his mace with the other hand, I think he's supposed to be doing a kind of war cry/prayer to spur on his squad 

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6 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

Visually, it's supposed to evoke Catholic rosary beads - to drill home the idea that Sequitors are like priests/clerics. As he's raising his mace with the other hand, I think he's supposed to be doing a kind of war cry/prayer to spur on his squad 

Behold my necklace Ye mighty and despair 

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Here's that Sequitor Prime conversion I talked about - bit quick and dirty and the spear's probably slightly wonky but I think it works overall, and it definitely falls into the realm of 'if I can do it, anyone can'.

It's just the mace and shield Prime from Soul Wars, made the spear with the blade of a sword from the multi-part Sequitor box, extended the shaft with the end of a Grandstave from the Evocators on Dracolines box, gave him a new left hand from that same box, done. Obviously conceptually not super close to a Greatmace but I figured it being two-handed makes it clear enough that it shouldn't cause any arguments.

(Please ignore my poor abused fingernails :P) 

IMG_20181229_134118.jpg

IMG_20181229_134126.jpg

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Just wanted to share my 1500 point list that’s currently working well in my local group. My goal wasn't to make something that was invincible or that could take all comers. I was far more interested in creating something which avoided the tedium of Gav Bomb or other "Hail Mary two turns games over" approach and create an army that felt and played true to the feel of Stormcast and made the most of their combined arms and expertise while still being good at the game. 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Realm: Ulgu

Heroes

Lord Arcanum with Scroll of Condemnation and Azyrite Halo 240

Lord Castellant 100

Priest 100

Battleline

5 x Liberators 100

5 x Judicators 160

5 x Judicators 160

10 x Sequitors 240

Other

10 x Evocators  400

Obviously deployment depends on Battleplan but Broadly speaking it's set around a classic Hammer and Anvil tactic. The Liberators spread out as wide as possible in the Centre while the Judicators take objectives either side and plink at things from a distance. Castellant's Gryph Hound jogs off to join them and support with summoning issues. Castellant and LA give the Liberators a 2+ save and the LA gives them Azyr Halo and they sit in the middle and dare people to charge at them while the Hero team stand some distance behind them and and shout encouragingly. The priest heals or damages as required (Prayer is picked depending on opposition) and the Sequitors and Evocators come in to clear out the backline or flanks as the situation dictates.

The thing that I really like about it is that it creates matchups that allow Stormcast to act as the elite that they are supposed to be in pretty much all circumstances. The "Centre" can hold out to a remarkable amount of damage with Cycle of the Storm and the Priest and Castellant to heal them and are an amazing tanking unit for a measly 100 points. They also do the job of sucking in the opposition as there's very little else on offer for them to hit with half my army off the table and the rest of it behind them. The heroes are providing constant value with their buffs before they swing a weapon. Judicators reliably cause wounds without taking any in return for a while and with the Gryph Hound are a solid objective defense platform. Again, in most circumstances they will require an investment far greater than the points they cost to shift them. Evocators or Empowered Sequitors are going to delete most things they come up against in a points match up and that's before they receive any buffs from Heroes. Scroll of Condemnation is an insurance option against the few things which are liable to cause them any sustained trouble. 

Worse case scenario the centre is lost but it's usually at cost due to the Halo Spell, almost certainly required more than 100 points to shift it, and even then it's really just a question of trading, and with a general who can reliably hop to either side of the board in a turn and two units who can come on from anywhere and delete most things in a short space of time even then you're probably going to come off better. 

I have a 2000 point extension in mind which is more aggressive but I have no idea how viable it is. Liberators make way for a unit of Gryph Hounds(!) and provide the same screening duties, but in this instance the plan is more about dictating the centre than holding it. With 18 wounds and a 5+ save and the same healing powers behind they they will be able to hold for a short while if needed but it's more about denying the centre.

Evocators on Dracolines are lined up behind them at a judicious range to facilitate the charge if I get the turn and deny it if I don't . Sequitors are split into two units of five with the Cleansing Phalanx Battalion, deployed or in Heaven as circumstances dictates. The Hounds melt away to nab objectives or take up flanking duties with the Castellant as escort to give them their 4 attacks, the mounted Evocators plough through the middle and attract attention while the Sequitors and Evocators come on as before to threaten the flanks or centre as required.

The Priest gives way for a Knight Zephyros who is armed with the Sword of Judgement and is there to shadow monsters and heroes. Even if she just ties one up for a few turns without killing it it's 100 points investment well returned. 

It's been really fun trying to work out what some of the lesser-favoured units in the current meta can do if you work on a synergy rather than just naked power play, highly recommend it!

Edited by Nos
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2 hours ago, robinlvalentine said:

Visually, it's supposed to evoke Catholic rosary beads - to drill home the idea that Sequitors are like priests/clerics. As he's raising his mace with the other hand, I think he's supposed to be doing a kind of war cry/prayer to spur on his squad 

I do understand the idea of this character doing a war cry/prayer, like the Paladin Prime before him, but I'm not sure if they are priest/clerics, at least not to me.

The Relictor is still my favorite character (both in game or books) and I still have this weird feeling that the Sacrosanct Chamber are made of Wizards doing what was supposed to be in a Lord-Relictor's job description. When I first read about the unopened chambers I was sure the Sacrosanct was a priest Chamber. But when the Soul Wars lore came out it was confusing to read about wizards doing what I've always thought was a priest job. I mean, Relictors had always this closeness to necromancers, Nagash, Shyish and Death stuff in all previous books. Ionus Cryptborn and Boreas Undying are great examples of that.

It is written in their Warscroll that "their weapons and armour are replete with icons of Death, for these fell guardians keep the warrior souls of the Stormcast Eternals from the gloom of the underworld". Also it is described that "it is the task of a Lord-Relictor to keep the souls of his chamber’s brethren firmly tethered to Sigmar and the Celestial Realm. With frequent binding rituals and lightning-wreathed blessings, Lord-Relictors ensure that should a Stormcast Eternal fall in battle, his spirit will heed only the call of Sigmar, ascending as a scintillating bolt back to the Heavens. The role of spirit-warden is but part of a Lord-Relictor’s duties."

I'm not even including the Veritant, a priest who unbinds and which is now is really dead and gone more than ever. They should reinvent him with a new profile. The "White Reaper" is one of the most amazing characters with just a few lines of story during the Solstice. He reminds me of an Medieval Inquisitor and GW should totally go for it.

I'm not looking for an explanation, it's just something I wonder every now and then. I just have doubts about what actually is a SCE wizard and a priest and I understand where are you coming from when I read your post. Maybe Relictors are there to point the souls to Azyr during battle and that's about it. All the rest is a Wizard's job and now that they are in the battlefield too it's confusing. To me. And I've always wondered why the Lord-Exorcist doesn't have the Priest keyword. He is the only one in Sacrosanct Chamber that could actually be a priest considering what he does.

Anyway, Sacrosancts are awesome no matter what they are/do and this miniature is amazing. Also, I'm really hoping for the release of a Relictor Chamber/Temple. (Please Sigmar, hear my prayers!)

😉

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Uhm, guys, talking about lore, ket me ask a stupid question..

 

Is there a reason in oore, why are stormcast mafe in bigger scale then for example empire? Should those guys be bigger “race” or whatever? Or it’s jist because low model army concept and easier detail paintjob?

I love stomrcast models but I’m really upset about this, I’d like to use them in my dnd sessions too and I simply can’t because of scale...

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4 hours ago, Orzo said:

Uhm, guys, talking about lore, ket me ask a stupid question..

 

Is there a reason in oore, why are stormcast mafe in bigger scale then for example empire? Should those guys be bigger “race” or whatever? Or it’s jist because low model army concept and easier detail paintjob?

I love stomrcast models but I’m really upset about this, I’d like to use them in my dnd sessions too and I simply can’t because of scale...

They’re super humans basically. Their valour and virtue is drawn from their humanity but their strength and power transcends humanity. And their armour is also massive. 

But they’re not really humans anymore. In the Lore other humans tend to see them as either friendly giants/angels when they’re approachable or terrifying automatons created for one purpose. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Orzo said:

Uhm, guys, talking about lore, ket me ask a stupid question..

 

Is there a reason in oore, why are stormcast mafe in bigger scale then for example empire? Should those guys be bigger “race” or whatever? Or it’s jist because low model army concept and easier detail paintjob?

I love stomrcast models but I’m really upset about this, I’d like to use them in my dnd sessions too and I simply can’t because of scale...

The Stormcast are 'reforged' into new, massive, super-human bodies with armour to match. They're demigods, basically, and they're supposed to be like 10 foot tall, not just humans in armour. 

2 hours ago, Kako said:

I do understand the idea of this character doing a war cry/prayer, like the Paladin Prime before him, but I'm not sure if they are priest/clerics, at least not to me.

The Relictor is still my favorite character (both in game or books) and I still have this weird feeling that the Sacrosanct Chamber are made of Wizards doing what was supposed to be in a Lord-Relictor's job description. When I first read about the unopened chambers I was sure the Sacrosanct was a priest Chamber. But when the Soul Wars lore came out it was confusing to read about wizards doing what I've always thought was a priest job. I mean, Relictors had always this closeness to necromancers, Nagash, Shyish and Death stuff in all previous books. Ionus Cryptborn and Boreas Undying are great examples of that.

It is written in their Warscroll that "their weapons and armour are replete with icons of Death, for these fell guardians keep the warrior souls of the Stormcast Eternals from the gloom of the underworld". Also it is described that "it is the task of a Lord-Relictor to keep the souls of his chamber’s brethren firmly tethered to Sigmar and the Celestial Realm. With frequent binding rituals and lightning-wreathed blessings, Lord-Relictors ensure that should a Stormcast Eternal fall in battle, his spirit will heed only the call of Sigmar, ascending as a scintillating bolt back to the Heavens. The role of spirit-warden is but part of a Lord-Relictor’s duties."

I'm not even including the Veritant, a priest who unbinds and which is now is really dead and gone more than ever. They should reinvent him with a new profile. The "White Reaper" is one of the most amazing characters with just a few lines of story during the Solstice. He reminds me of an Medieval Inquisitor and GW should totally go for it.

I'm not looking for an explanation, it's just something I wonder every now and then. I just have doubts about what actually is a SCE wizard and a priest and I understand where are you coming from when I read your post. Maybe Relictors are there to point the souls to Azyr during battle and that's about it. All the rest is a Wizard's job and now that they are in the battlefield too it's confusing. To me. And I've always wondered why the Lord-Exorcist doesn't have the Priest keyword. He is the only one in Sacrosanct Chamber that could actually be a priest considering what he does.

Anyway, Sacrosancts are awesome no matter what they are/do and this miniature is amazing. Also, I'm really hoping for the release of a Relictor Chamber/Temple. (Please Sigmar, hear my prayers!)

😉

I think the point is that, for the Stormcast, there isn't so clear a distinction between a wizard, a priest, a tribal shaman, whatever. The lore for the Sacrosanct says they're drawn from all manner of magical adepts, arcane and divine. And they're the soldiers of a god, invested with his power, so in their new lives they're priests and wizards in one.

Visually, IMO the Sacrosanct are designed to evoke both traditional wizard tropes and traditional priest tropes, with their robes, holy symbols, staves, etc. Which in a way harks back to the real world mythology of wise men, shamans, etc, where the role of wizard and priest have been seen as one and the same more often than not (IMO we only see the two as so separate these days because of D&D)

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31 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

I think the point is that, for the Stormcast, there isn't so clear a distinction between a wizard, a priest, a tribal shaman, whatever. The lore for the Sacrosanct says they're drawn from all manner of magical adepts, arcane and divine. And they're the soldiers of a god, invested with his power, so in their new lives they're priests and wizards in one.

Visually, IMO the Sacrosanct are designed to evoke both traditional wizard tropes and traditional priest tropes, with their robes, holy symbols, staves, etc. Which in a way harks back to the real world mythology of wise men, shamans, etc, where the role of wizard and priest have been seen as one and the same more often than not (IMO we only see the two as so separate these days because of D&D)

I understand and agree with what you say 100%. The Sacrosanct Chamber is indeed visually closer to priest-warriors. But the keywords always mess with my head 😅

And you are correct, sometimes we caught ourselves biased by our own vanilla definitions of MAGIC and PRAYERS, no matter its origin. I believe the Relictor and the Veritant were created while there wasn't a clear idea of these distinctions and roles that are now being defined as the Lore grows. Sacrosanct is here to stay and I'm enjoying every bit of the new stories, I'm sure that the original priests will  eventually find their place in the lore and table. We must always remember that we talk about Chambers a lot, but we never talk about the Temples (Relictor, Valedictor, Judicator, Heraldor). I feel excited that there are many aspects of the SCE army that can still be explored.

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Hey guys, so i've been playing tempest lords vanguard chambers with some sacrosanct support mainly because of fluff. Had a couple of games where i've rolled so badly i've not been able to get any extra cps.  This just makes me think - is there any point playing the tempest lords? Should i just go back to staunch defender and mirrorshield or something like that?

 

i like the vanguard chamber and how mobile it is with azyrite hurricane. It plays unlike anything else and that's something i'd like to keep.

 

So what do you guys think?

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4 hours ago, Synidus said:

Hey guys, so i've been playing tempest lords vanguard chambers with some sacrosanct support mainly because of fluff. Had a couple of games where i've rolled so badly i've not been able to get any extra cps.  This just makes me think - is there any point playing the tempest lords? Should i just go back to staunch defender and mirrorshield or something like that?

 

i like the vanguard chamber and how mobile it is with azyrite hurricane. It plays unlike anything else and that's something i'd like to keep.

 

So what do you guys think?

From a playing to win perspective you’re trading a buff which effects multiple consistent rolls (SD) for one that will be situationally useful. In a game where there’s a lot of luck involved I tend to find the things you consistently control are key, the more of those you have the more you can dictate the key moments.  

You can establish a consistently powerful defence around Staunch Defender. You can’t around a +4 dice roll and CP.

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21 hours ago, Synidus said:

...is there any point playing the tempest lords?

Should i just go back to staunch defender and mirrorshield or something like that?

Command abilities have the potential to drastically impact games of AOS.  This is not true of every command ability though.  The CAs with the most potential for abuse often can stack, or they trigger an effect with more impact than simply dice-fixing.

The tempest lords caught my eye because their battle trait has significant potential in comparison to the other stormhosts. But unfortunately, the command abilities with the most potential for abuse are limited to Hammers of Sigmar, Anvils of the Heldenhammer, and even Celestial Warbringers.

For your vanguard chamber units, lords of the azyrite hurricane can't be 'spammed', and vanguard units are typically fielded in small units that prefer to shoot rather than charge. This means that inspiring presence, at the double, and forward to victory are all next to useless. Tempest lords provide almost no help to Vanguard units.

The story is better for sacrosanct units. There is one particular unit combination that would be effective with tempest lords. Take a lord-arcanum on dracoline, and run him near a unit of evocators on dracolines, take the pride leader mount trait on the lord arcanum. If that hero is within 6" of any of your units, he will have +1 to hit and +1 to wound on all of his attacks. Hitting and wounding on 2s with 7 multi-damage attacks is fantastic, and don't forget to break your spirit flasks on the turn you charge. I just recently man-handled a 20-strong unit of grimghast reapers with a lord-arcanum on dracoline charge. This lord arcanum has a great outlet for all of those extra tempest lord command points. If you can keep your formation tight enough, you can "spam" pack alpha, giving you as many additional dracoline attacks for the evocators as you have CPs.

As to whether or not you should 'give up' on tempest lords.... it depends. If you have painted your models in tempest lords colors and it is important to you that your model colors match their stormhost, you should keep going with tempest lords.  Embrace their character as noble lords and peerless battlefield commanders. Lean in to their strengths, which are leveraging the most powerful generic command abilities and having an extra hard-hitting warlord.

If you painted your models in a generic scheme, or it doesn't matter to you if the colors match the stormhost, then experiment with the others. My personal opinion is that staunch defender has lost a lot of its AOS1.0 luster. Having played many games using Hammers of Sigmar and Anvils of the Heldenhammer stormhosts, it became apparent that it wasn't as necessary as it first seemed. In my meta, my stormcast armies are not winning many attrition battles. My success against maggotkin, daughters of khaine, and sylvaneth has been achieved by surrendering early victory points, appearing in aggressive locations, delivering a crippling attack, then keeping the pressure up until I table (or essentially table) my opponent.  Bonds of noble duty would be welcome help for that strategy.

Long live the Blue-Blooded! :)

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