AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Deadkitten]

44 minutes ago, Bellfree said:

Gatekeeper lists are called that just as often because they're stupid one-trick bullgak that obliterates those who haven't seen it before, but is basically worthless once you figure out the trick.

so what's a good SCE 2nd tier list?

[Bellfree]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 2:30 PM, PJetski said:

Astral Templars with the ballista core and 10+ Evocators (or 20 Sequitors) is probably the strongest Stormcast list overall right now. Given how many MONSTERs are in the meta, on average killing almost a big target (including big ones like Nagash and Rotigus) in one round of shooting with just the ballistas is a very powerful ability. Even when not shooting at MONSTERS you'll delete something every turn. Giving Evocators a free 6" move at the start of the game is also quite good, helping you get into the positions you need to drop your ballistas into play safely, take objectives, or get an early charge after buffing up in the hero phase.

Anvils w/ 9-12 Longstrikes is another really powerful list if you play it properly. There are some specific counters to it (Nighthaunt, long range spells, Skyfire spam) but you still have 1200-1400 points to spend after the Longstrikes to help build around specific meta counters, like adding 2+ Incantors for dispel scrolls or Aetherwings to stop melee armies, or some PRIESTS for Translocation to escape and/or get the right shooting angle. After two rounds of double shooting from 12 Longstrikes your opponent won't have enough left on the table to contest objectives. 

I think most people haven't bothered experimenting outside of Gavriel lists because it's a fairly easy to play and highly effective against people that don't have a lot of experience playing against that kind of thing (ie. most people).

The Astral Templars list loses to any of the meta lists that don't run big monsters or can nullify their to hit bonuses(you'll be hitting on 6s targeting a Khailebron Slaughter Cauldron, even with the Ordinator.  Or spending 540 points to do 5 wounds to it.). Celestar Ballista barely do anything to DoK, and with how prevelant they are, that's a big problem. And Evocators on foot might as well not have a movement characteristic for how slow they are in the current meta. Using the extra 6" move on them is a 'double turn or lose RIGHT NOW' move. Putting either half of the list in the air, leaves the other half easy pickings. Even with several hundred points of screens. You'll win 4 out of 5 games and get blasted out first turn in 1.

The Anvils list you talked down just fine yourself.  It's countered by an entire popular faction, a stock standard strategy for half the armies with wizards in the game, and any other shooting list. The best you can hope for is to blow 1200 points desperately trying to keep one unit alive for the three turns it'll take it to do anything of note. You'll win 4 out of 5 games and get blasted out first turn in 1.

The biggest thing to note here, is that these lists are all skew lists focused on exploiting less than 10% of the battletome in a bid to win specific matchups, at the cost of getting destroyed in certain matchups. All of our competitive list builds are just modern day Skryre Fyre simply because of how lopsided the battletome is. 

[Bellfree]

4 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

so what's a good SCE 2nd tier list?

Legions of Nagash.

[Deadkitten]

Just now, Bellfree said:

Legions of Nagash.

HA!  I was just thinking I should finish my Blood Knight conversions instead of a new SCE list!

[Primez]

9 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

I am assuming he was all in on screening the unit of long strikes and gave you no charge at them? its very one dimensional but as you say can counter certain lists perfectly. Losing that long strike squad sure leave nothing left though.

 

I can give you a brief overview of my army and how i used it here.  I will be covering it off in more detail in the podcast later this week https://notoriousaos.podbean.com/  

 

Mark is correct it built it with anti-meta in mind. I was looking for a list with movement and a long-range threat that can kill heroes, monsters or key targets. Most armies out there out fight SCE and i knew there was going to be good combat armies coming in and lots of grind death list. 

 

 

It's a simple idea of kill key targets from range and moves as i don't want to fight you in combat. I can shoot in the hero phase and teleport at the end of the movement phase with the Aquilor. The Aquilor ability keeps my opponent's guesses as to where i will be and covers a massive amount of board. I can hit almost any part of it other than right in the middle, back section of my opponent's deployment, assuming they screen off their own board edge. If they don't i can get in range of anything. The Phoneix is just bait/ distraction that i want combat armies to grind on. 

 

I would keep libs/birds in the sky so i can screen off my long-strikes. Sometimes all the screen would come down in one turn if i was going to hold one side of the board as i did against Mark otherwise i would drip feed the units from the sky as i might be looking to move next turn and the initial Aquilour teleport is more bait than anything. The wizards were casting low cast spells that go off on 5's to buff the phoenix which i would push forward for my opponent's to get stuck on. This was total bait for the combat armies out there to charge as i always positioned it closer, and my opponents thought it would be easily removed. 

 

Mark was the only person to kill any of my long-strikes and he removed 5 of them in 4 turns. I didn't lose one single long-strike in my other 4 games. I'm looking at making some changes to the list but keeping the core idea the same as the movement and range have worked well. There is some hard counters mainly Slyvaneth with LOS woods. Losing your general early hurts like hell and if your long-stirks are killed before they do anything then it's game. I only lost one guy to the guy who came second at NZ masters the person who Mark lost to in round 3. The game only got to turn 3 but that was because i made an error which gave my opponent the win in turn 1. I will go into more detail about this on the podcast for anyone that is keen.  https://notoriousaos.podbean.com/

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Primez

[Killamike]

This past weekend I ended up winning the Australian masters with stormcast. 

The missions for the event were unknown and randomly rolled up before each game out of the 18 available which made an impact on the overall list I ended up running. 

Essentially it was a toss up between the list below that I settled on, or a more main stream Gav/evo list. I'll explain my reasoning below. 

Anvils of heldenhammer

arcanum on gryph- deathly aura

castellant

vexilor - pendent of the stormbringer

ordinator - soul thief

10 sequitors 

5 sequitors 

5 sequitors 

6 evocators on dracs 

3 ballistas 

I settled on the dracs as they are a self sufficient unit, they reroll charges, neg bravery, put out a lot of damage and importantly move 12". I was definitely in two minds on which two lists to take but the descision came that if total commitment was drawn and I got put against a bad match up I'd straight away be behind. 

Turns out first mission random roll was total commitment. The other stormcast player with 20 seqs and 2 units of evos got matched against 3 guos and 60 plague bearers, the match I was dreading. He played very well and almost got the win, but the mortal wounds and resilience of nurgle pipped him in the final turn. 

I was pretty impressed with the list as a really good utility list. Ballistas were for the arkhans, nagashs and allarielles of the world. Cats with the lantern are very good and there speed really made a difference. 

My last 2 games were against sylvaneth which are very hard matchups, but I was able to capitalise on some mistakes and force the win. 

[Keith]

59 minutes ago, Killamike said:

This past weekend I ended up winning the Australian masters with stormcast. 

The missions for the event were unknown and randomly rolled up before each game out of the 18 available which made an impact on the overall list I ended up running. 

Essentially it was a toss up between the list below that I settled on, or a more main stream Gav/evo list. I'll explain my reasoning below. 

Anvils of heldenhammer

arcanum on gryph- deathly aura

castellant

vexilor - pendent of the stormbringer

ordinator - soul thief

10 sequitors 

5 sequitors 

5 sequitors 

6 evocators on dracs 

3 ballistas 

I settled on the dracs as they are a self sufficient unit, they reroll charges, neg bravery, put out a lot of damage and importantly move 12". I was definitely in two minds on which two lists to take but the descision came that if total commitment was drawn and I got put against a bad match up I'd straight away be behind. 

Turns out first mission random roll was total commitment. The other stormcast player with 20 seqs and 2 units of evos got matched against 3 guos and 60 plague bearers, the match I was dreading. He played very well and almost got the win, but the mortal wounds and resilience of nurgle pipped him in the final turn. 

I was pretty impressed with the list as a really good utility list. Ballistas were for the arkhans, nagashs and allarielles of the world. Cats with the lantern are very good and there speed really made a difference. 

My last 2 games were against sylvaneth which are very hard matchups, but I was able to capitalise on some mistakes and force the win. 

Congratulations , I watched your last game vs Chris , I thought Chris would win that match up easy , (shows I know nothing about warhammers )

I was surprised where you dropped the Ballistas and went for the Branchwraith , I guess you were desperate to stop more dryads appearing ?

I would have shot Alarielle to make sure she died , but the cats made a big charge , knowing my luck the Cats would have failed the charge.

[Killamike]

Cheers. 

The cats were about 6ish away from allarielle and he had put the cogs down, I figured a 4" reroll was pretty good odds. Haha, would have been pretty lame if I had rolled a 3 twice. 

I defs didnt want him continually adding layers of driads to his back objective. That's probably the hardest the ballistas failed all weekend. 3 couldn't kill 1 branchwraith.  

[schwabbele]

On 11/29/2018 at 8:40 AM, wanderingrogue said:

or stagger charge  - where by 2+ units hit, the first wipes out the screen and then the second unit piles in putting to the gap putting you in range of what they were protecting. This is even easier with the 3 inch evo zaps

That sounds really interesting but I am not sure I get it completely. Wouldn't there always be the risk that when you wipe unit1 , enemy then activates his unit and piles in first to wipe your 2nd unit and if enemy gets next turn even wipe your 1st unit? I mean theoretically you can still come out on top but way more risky.  And the Evo zap imho is something way more powerful due to happening in 1 activation - can really make opponents game miserable if he deploys suboptimal :D.

[ianob]

On 11/29/2018 at 6:46 PM, PJetski said:

Every game with Gavriel against competent opponents looks like this: You drop in, kill the screen, then lose to the counterattack. Shooting happens after movement, and if you kill the screen with ballistas you won't have a legal charge regardless of many command points you use.

Evocators are too slow to play an objective game, you risk getting tied down in bad engagements if you don't deep stirke charge, and you cant handle prolonged combat. The only plan is to cripple the enemy army on the first turn, and that's not feasible when you can be denied by basic screening tactics.

This list in particular is almost a guaranteed loss on Total Commitment (can't deep strike), Duality of Death (only 2 heroes),  Places of Arcane Power (no wizards, only 1 artifact on a 5 wound hero), Three Places of Power (only 2 heroes), and it really struggles with battleplans where scoring changes dynamically because Liberators and Ballistas are very slow units.

It can be a noobstomper list but that's not good enough to justify running it in a competitive setting. It's possible that my meta is more cutthroat than yours, and that's fine. I mean no disrespect, I just think Stormcast can do a lot better than cheesy Gavriel lists.

I have nothing left to say on the matter that I haven't already said... we will have to agree to disagree 

Is this guy still banging this drum 130 pages of replies in
 

I've never said "git gud" to anyone in my life but damn if it doesn't seem applicable here

[FPC]

12 hours ago, Deadkitten said:

Wasn't it if you knew the caster you knew the list though? 

That's what I really can't remember.  This was years ago for me, and back then it was pretty obvious what a competitive player was bringing if they were playing caster X.  That's why I think it might have been a situation where you knew the faction, and nothing else.  You had to hedge your bets that you picked the list you brought that could best deal with the general play style of that army.  At least, maybe that's just how local play and tournaments were in my area.  I could be wrong.

I think this would be a great way to play AoS, because a lot of armies fit a specific archetype but do have substantial variance. A player might assume Stormcast is bringing a Gav bomb and choose their best list to handle it, only to have Dracoths dropped on them (ok this wouldn't be a huge deal but still...).  I don't play in tournaments/competitive anymore but if I did I would be happy to see something like this.

[PJetski]

On 12/1/2018 at 12:07 PM, wanderingrogue said:

2 rounds of double shooting vs say..... deepkin...generally nets you a dead scryer and a squad of thralls or 2 🤷‍♂️

its not "easy" which also makes me pretty sure youve never even tried it before commenting, but its main draw is its reliable:

realm of shadow? 6 inch range for everything? dont care

character mission? got buckets

enemy casting? cps for charging to burn

etc

etc

etc

Vs the big lists it has tools and non of the horrendous bad match ups other sce lists have. Sure trees are a problem but not insurmountable and no where near as table chompingly frustrating as when you bring 12 raptors and cant shoot through the trees. 

Having bad matchups doesn't make a list bad - every list has bad matchups. The problem with Gavriel lists is that their bad matchup is anyone that knows the Gavriel gimmick and how to screen properly. 

When AOS2 launched I immediately jumped on the Gavriel+Evocator bandwagon because it seemed to be so powerful, but when playing against good players you just hit their disposable 200pt screen then lose your best units to their counterattack.

Evocators are so slow that they can't be deployed on the table and Gavriel lists spend so much on them that you can't really hold back since you give up board control. I have been looking into more balanced melee/shooting Gavriel lists... but why play Hammers at that point? Their artifact is garbage, the command trait is lacking, gambling to resurrect Sequitors is a questionable use of command points, and Gavriel is a huge investment in command points.

There are other ways to get turn 1 charges that don't lock you into a bad Stormhost, and I think this is where Astral Templars comes in. Evocators starting the game with a 6" move, then their  5" move, plus a Heraldor to run & charge (with a command point to run 6) can make them move 17" before charging on the first turn. It's usually enough to get a turn 1 charge, at least from my experience. You can even add in the Cogs to get more distance, or activate them with the Evocators so they can double buff themselves with Empower + Celestial Blades and rerollable saves (really good if you add in a Castellant lantern!) so they can survive the counter-attack. It's similar in function to Gavriel lists but you get an army-wide +1 hit against MONSTERS and you can spend your command points on other things (like guaranteed Empower casts, or +1 to wound against Heroes, or run6... more tactical flexibility!).

Gavriel lists give up all the power of hero phase buffs. If you think turn 1 charge Evocators are good, just think of how good they will be with Empower, Celestial Blades, Azyrite Halo, Warding Lantern, etc. Not only will you kill the enemy frontline, but with +1 save and rerolls you'll survive to do it again the next turn.

13 hours ago, Bellfree said:

Gatekeeper lists are called that just as often because they're stupid one-trick bullgak that obliterates those who haven't seen it before, but is basically worthless once you figure out the trick.

I'm not sure what a "bullgak" is, but otherwise I think this describes Gavriel lists succinctly.

2 hours ago, ianob said:

Is this guy still banging this drum 130 pages of replies in
 

I've never said "git gud" to anyone in my life but damn if it doesn't seem applicable here

I keep looking for an argument in your post, but I can't seem to find one. Maybe it's hidden under all these smug emojis...

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

I'm not sure what a "bullgak" is, but otherwise I think this describes Gavriel lists succinctly. 

bullgak is a german word for bulllsh*t

[PUFNSTUF]

13 hours ago, Killamike said:

This past weekend I ended up winning the Australian masters with stormcast. 

The missions for the event were unknown and randomly rolled up before each game out of the 18 available which made an impact on the overall list I ended up running. 

Essentially it was a toss up between the list below that I settled on, or a more main stream Gav/evo list. I'll explain my reasoning below. 

Anvils of heldenhammer

arcanum on gryph- deathly aura

castellant

vexilor - pendent of the stormbringer

ordinator - soul thief

10 sequitors 

5 sequitors 

5 sequitors 

6 evocators on dracs 

3 ballistas 

I settled on the dracs as they are a self sufficient unit, they reroll charges, neg bravery, put out a lot of damage and importantly move 12". I was definitely in two minds on which two lists to take but the descision came that if total commitment was drawn and I got put against a bad match up I'd straight away be behind. 

Turns out first mission random roll was total commitment. The other stormcast player with 20 seqs and 2 units of evos got matched against 3 guos and 60 plague bearers, the match I was dreading. He played very well and almost got the win, but the mortal wounds and resilience of nurgle pipped him in the final turn. 

I was pretty impressed with the list as a really good utility list. Ballistas were for the arkhans, nagashs and allarielles of the world. Cats with the lantern are very good and there speed really made a difference. 

My last 2 games were against sylvaneth which are very hard matchups, but I was able to capitalise on some mistakes and force the win. 

That list is very similar to the one I posted a few pages back but mine had 1 less ballista and 20 seq with Arcanum on dracoline instead of charger. Any changes you would make? Did you like the storm host?

[frostfire]

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (460)
- Tempest Axe
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Spell: Lighntning Blast
- Mount Trait: Wind Runner
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Lighntning Blast
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

Apologize for the writing because English is not my native language.Having been running this spell list with my friends. Not saying it's competitive enough but has lots of fun. Stardrake's +1casting roll and the Staff of Focus let the spell become more reliable and powerful. The long-ranged MW output comes from the comet and the stardrake (maybe even the Heraldor) would take out some small heroes turn 1. And 20 Seq with Castellant  and SD will also be a big problem for you opponent to deal with.I still have the drake for opponent's troops, 5 evo for heroes who deployed far from his main army to avoid the comet, Geminids for the horde such as grimhast reapers .  The only “not good”part is the drake whose mw is all random. Thinking of dropping the Staff and taking the Scale for drake to increase his durability. Quite an interesting list with cool models!

[Requizen]

Man I step away for a while and look what's become of this thread.

Awesome to see more people doing well with Anvils. @Killamike, I'm interested in your list as I've tried a version like it in the past. However, I've found the Ballistas to be fairly inconsistent targets for the CA - either I'm keeping them in the air so can't use it, or the opponent will be out of range for the double shot in my Hero phase. Obviously unlike the Longstrike list, yours isn't built around getting the extra shot every turn (as Ballistas aren't as efficient with it anyways), do you find yourself using it on the Dracolines or Sequitors instead? 

@Primez I like the idea of using the Aquilor to teleport the Longstrikes around, but it seems quite light on bodies. Do you find yourself running out of CPs to use if you're teleporting? The lack of bodies feels like it could cause some issues on missions that have lots of middle objectives, like Shifting Objectives or Border War. How do you approach those missions, just try to clear early and snag points T3-5? With the lack of Sequitors/Evocators, it feels a bit light on the ability to play the board fighting game. 

And to both of you in general, were you forced to play in Ulgu with restricted ranges at all? That was the main cause of my one loss last event, since it cut down my Longstrikes into a fraction of their overall prowess.

[Primez]

15 minutes ago, Requizen said:

 

@Primez I like the idea of using the Aquilor to teleport the Longstrikes around, but it seems quite light on bodies. Do you find yourself running out of CPs to use if you're teleporting? The lack of bodies feels like it could cause some issues on missions that have lots of middle objectives, like Shifting Objectives or Border War. How do you approach those missions, just try to clear early and snag points T3-5? With the lack of Sequitors/Evocators, it feels a bit light on the ability to play the board fighting game. 

And to both of you in general, were you forced to play in Ulgu with restricted ranges at all? That was the main cause of my one loss last event, since it cut down my Longstrikes into a fraction of their overall prowess.

1

We didn't use realm rules at masters as the rule set is super swingy and can decide games before they're played. 

 

It is somewhat lite on bodies and i would love more skinks, but i couldn't find the points. The missions the list is really bad at is the Better part of Valour. I happen to play a death army who had a few big blocks of units 40, 30 and 20. This was the only time i felt like i couldn't control the board. I went onto play a death list with roughly 100 bodies in Total Conquest which i wasn't looking forward to. However, my superior movement and range meant the game went much better than expected. The long-strikes can kill units of 30 bodies a turn easy or a big monster a turn easy. Any mission with objectives in the middle is awesome as i can just stand there and blow the unit off and win later game. Plus people want to kill the Phoenix but they quickly realise it's an uphill battle especially if i get Geminds off. People forgot to kill my libs or birds. 

 

The list is super CP hungry and normally i would shoot turn 1 then teleport turn 1. The only time i didn't need to was  Focal Points Vs a nurgle list who was happy to move to the middle of the board and i was more than happy to sit and shoot. 

 

[Requizen]

3 minutes ago, Primez said:

We didn't use realm rules at masters as the rule set is super swingy and can decide games before they're played. 

 

It is somewhat lite on bodies and i would love more skinks, but i couldn't find the points. The missions the list is really bad at is the Better part of Valour. I happen to play a death army who had a few big blocks of units 40, 30 and 20. This was the only time i felt like i couldn't control the board. I went onto play a death list with roughly 100 bodies in Total Conquest which i wasn't looking forward to. However, my superior movement and range meant the game went much better than expected. The long-strikes can kill units of 30 bodies a turn easy or a big monster a turn easy. Any mission with objectives in the middle is awesome as i can just stand there and blow the unit off and win later game. Plus people want to kill the Phoenix but they quickly realise it's an uphill battle especially if i get Geminds off. People forgot to kill my libs or birds. 

 

The list is super CP hungry and normally i would shoot turn 1 then teleport turn 1. The only time i didn't need to was  Focal Points Vs a nurgle list who was happy to move to the middle of the board and i was more than happy to sit and shoot. 

 

Thanks for the feedback! I honestly wish we wouldn't use Realms either, or use them in a much more limited format. You're correct, they really do mess things up imo.

[Primez]

8 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Thanks for the feedback! I honestly wish we wouldn't use Realms either, or use them in a much more limited format. You're correct, they really do mess things up imo.

Yea the TO made the call a few months beforehand that there could be some real ****** matchups so they weren't going to be in play. I don't mind using them, but i must say it was really good not having them at a Masters event. When i have played with them in tournaments most games we have just forgotten until round 3/4 and don't bother to use them. 

[Killamike]

@Requizen we didnt use realm rules either. 

I just used the command in moments of opportunity. It sucks getting bogged down by one or two models which are blocking a unit moving. I used it on combat probs a bit more than on shooting. 

Things I would change is probably go back to my larger blocks of sequitors. I think they are the best unit we have access too. 

[billymags]

comments welcome please!

2000 Points

Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Realm: Hysh

 

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)

- General - Command Trait : Deathly Aura - Artefact : Soulthief - Spell : Stormcaller - Mount Trait -Mount Trait:  Savage Loyalty

Lord-Ordinator (140)

- Artefact : Aetherquartz Brooch

5 x Judicators (160)

-Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows

10 x Sequitors (240)

-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 5 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

10 x Sequitors (240)

-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 4 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

9 x Castigators (240)

10 x Evocators (400)

- 10 x Grandstaves - Lore of Invigoration : Speed of Lightning

Celestar Ballista (100)

Celestar Ballista (100)

BATTALIONS

Hailstorm Battery (120)

1980 Points - 1 Command Point

[HammerOfSigmar]

48 minutes ago, billymags said:

comments welcome please!

2000 Points

Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Realm: Hysh

 

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)

- General - Command Trait : Deathly Aura - Artefact : Soulthief - Spell : Stormcaller - Mount Trait -Mount Trait:  Savage Loyalty

Lord-Ordinator (140)

- Artefact : Aetherquartz Brooch

5 x Judicators (160)

-Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows

10 x Sequitors (240)

-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 5 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

10 x Sequitors (240)

-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 4 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

9 x Castigators (240)

10 x Evocators (400)

- 10 x Grandstaves - Lore of Invigoration : Speed of Lightning

Celestar Ballista (100)

Celestar Ballista (100)

BATTALIONS

Hailstorm Battery (120)

1980 Points - 1 Command Point

Some suggestions. First, three ballista is better than two ballista with ordinator, but since you are bringing the hailstorm battery battalion, I am not sure whether it is still the case. Secondly, castigators are cheap(both in points and money) but castigator and judicators are among the worsest shooting units in stormcast army, considering their average damage over their points, I will suggest replacing them with a big unit of vanguard raptors(since you use the anvils stormhost, I won't suggest you bring a lot of ballista). With hurricane against enemy ignoring rend and with longstrike otherwise. 

[billymags]

Thanks, much appreciated! What do you suggest for battleline options then instead of Judicators?   Libs? 

[HammerOfSigmar]

56 minutes ago, billymags said:

Thanks, much appreciated! What do you suggest for battleline options then instead of Judicators?   Libs? 

For me, I will take the liberator instead. For the castigator, if you still want to bring the hailstorm battalion, you can bring a unit of 3 or 6 castigator. Then use raptors to fill the remaining places. 

[nine7six]

Anyone got a good list that doens't use the new stuff except an incantor or 2?

I have so many warrior chamber models but none of the new stuff except incantors and struggling to write a list. Anything i can come up with is also heavy drop wise as the battlion suck....

trying to stay tempest lords as i've painted them that way since beginning of AoS and used upgrade sprues.