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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

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2 hours ago, Sactownbri said:

Personally I don’t think they are very good when compared to other factions. I only ever take one with Arcane Corrasion to snipe characters.

Fair enough. In my game my single tidecaster failed to do even a single spell due to bad dice, and all our spells have such a short range. I may shell out for a vortex endless spell just to give a little extra range to the debuffs, but I am also seeing why a soul scryer is just better for eels.

 

i kinda wish that we had some longer range magic debuffs or buffs for our guys too, but that may be asking too much. Maybe being able to cast a second spell would fix them?

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Hey, sorry to double post but I really wanna show the half squad of eels I've painted since New Years. Going for dhom-hain so the armor should be sufficiently green, and as these are my first idoneth models painted I feel quite happy about them! Some spots I could touch up, but outside of that I feel they are table top ready! 

IMG_0347.JPG.49f0f6285c53063e30875327601ff2b1.JPG


 

IMG_0344.JPG.646746a914bce84a802985663d43e328.JPGIMG_0345.JPG.21589ac73a0919827e92679f9f5fa5c5.JPGIMG_0346.JPG.9fbb7d551abdae70ece1cb24aca66409.JPGIMG_0347.JPG.49f0f6285c53063e30875327601ff2b1.JPGIMG_0349.JPG.75ffb18f22d9a82b0509b199b7cacd99.JPG

IMG_0348.JPG

(these photos are a lot crappier than I first thought...)

Edited by Acid_Nine
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Hi everyone!i was think of maybe start playing Idoneth, but i heard most of the lists are eel squads spamming, is it true? Are namarti that bad? And the sharks?

I was thinking about buing the christmas army box but so many players from where i play said it's no  worth it. Do you have suggestion for a noob?

Thanks!

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8 hours ago, Asore23 said:

Hi everyone!i was think of maybe start playing Idoneth, but i heard most of the lists are eel squads spamming, is it true? Are namarti that bad? And the sharks?

I was thinking about buing the christmas army box but so many players from where i play said it's no  worth it. Do you have suggestion for a noob?

Thanks!

ive only played one game using Deepkin and most games against them were eel spam.

my limited opinion is:
-Thralls arent bad but unlike eels, are weak to mass shooting (i had a unit of 10 kill 3 retributors, but my unit of 20 got decimated by shooting before it could do anything)
-i feel like maybe you have to focus on either Namarti or Ahkelian, mixing them i think limits what you can take and maybe isnt the best option for trying to win.
-eels are just insane haha. both playing with and against them, i feel like something isnt right. i dont know maybe theyre too cheap. Volturnos command ability makes them completely broken (although only during High Tide) especially if you use it multiple times

i always liked the models when they came out. i bought and painted Volturnos and was planning to do a sea creatures llist with all the eels, sharks and turtles. but with how good the eel spam lists seemed to be, it sort of put me off them and its taken a while for me to get past that

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7 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

ive only played one game using Deepkin and most games against them were eel spam.

my limited opinion is:
-Thralls arent bad but unlike eels, are weak to mass shooting (i had a unit of 10 kill 3 retributors, but my unit of 20 got decimated by shooting before it could do anything)
-i feel like maybe you have to focus on either Namarti or Ahkelian, mixing them i think limits what you can take and maybe isnt the best option for trying to win.
-eels are just insane haha. both playing with and against them, i feel like something isnt right. i dont know maybe theyre too cheap. Volturnos command ability makes them completely broken (although only during High Tide) especially if you use it multiple times

i always liked the models when they came out. i bought and painted Volturnos and was planning to do a sea creatures llist with all the eels, sharks and turtles. but with how good the eel spam lists seemed to be, it sort of put me off them and its taken a while for me to get past that

 

I don't know about the too cheap part.  there are plenty of things that are better all the time rather than just on the charge. I feel they are in a good spot right now, just pricy enough for how many turns they are able to potentially work.

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Ishlaen Guard compared to Blood Sisters (same points cost, both battleline if a certain general is taken), i feel the guard are too cheap
-4+ save ignoring rend (3+ if charging or 1st turn-alleiegnce ability) vs 5+ (with 6+ damage save-allegiance ability)
-3 sets of attacks 3 (4 for champion),1.D3 at 3+ 3+ 0 1 (2 damage for one of those) vs 3 at 3+ (2+ for champion) 3+ -1 1 and an addintional causes a mortal wound on 4+ (3+ for champion)
-move 14" plus fly vs 8"

im not sure the points are fair you know? the eels just look better in every way (except no mortal wound output)

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Hello! Thanks for the add, I am brand new to the Idoneth Deepkin. As the "new guy" can I get some advise / direction on this list?

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Fuethan

Leaders
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280)
- General
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
- Artefact: Sands of Infinity 
- Lore of the Deeps: Vorpal Maelstrom
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Artefact: Bauble of Buoyancy 
- Lore of the Deeps: Arcane Corrasion

Battleline
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

Units
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)

Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Battalions
Akhelian Corps (100)

Endless Spells
Malevolent Maelstrom (20)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 85

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7 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Ishlaen Guard compared to Blood Sisters (same points cost, both battleline if a certain general is taken), i feel the guard are too cheap
-4+ save ignoring rend (3+ if charging or 1st turn-alleiegnce ability) vs 5+ (with 6+ damage save-allegiance ability)
-3 sets of attacks 3 (4 for champion),1.D3 at 3+ 3+ 0 1 (2 damage for one of those) vs 3 at 3+ (2+ for champion) 3+ -1 1 and an addintional causes a mortal wound on 4+ (3+ for champion)
-move 14" plus fly vs 8"

im not sure the points are fair you know? the eels just look better in every way (except no mortal wound output)

Ok but points include more than the stat line. Eels really only have very basic buffs outside of high tide. Bloodsisters have a much higher access to buffs, better magic support, better spells for that support to cast, More flexible command abilities, usable battalions, and tactical support unit. 

IDK really just hope to overpower you in high tide and use their speed to set it up, and collect enough VPs to not fall too far behind. And, have savage faction+scenerio mismatches. If eel spam was really that good we would see it in the results. But,the truth is going 5-0 with IDK needs 5 near perfect games. 

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9 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

Ok but points include more than the stat line. Eels really only have very basic buffs outside of high tide. Bloodsisters have a much higher access to buffs, better magic support, better spells for that support to cast, More flexible command abilities, usable battalions, and tactical support unit. 

IDK really just hope to overpower you in high tide and use their speed to set it up, and collect enough VPs to not fall too far behind. And, have savage faction+scenerio mismatches. If eel spam was really that good we would see it in the results. But,the truth is going 5-0 with IDK needs 5 near perfect games. 

 

this was more articulate than what I wanted to say, so thank you! The army has good models but not too many good synergies.  just looking at morrsarr, the buffs we have for them  all require either perfect placement or good timing. We have a King to buff their hit rolls, but the buffs only last one turn and his bubble of re-rolling 1's  can be hard to keep as everyone has to be within it, which means you're always one charge roll away for it to not affect you, and you can be out of place fairly easily (which is why Dhom-Hain is good in my opinion. No need to be so strict with bubbles on the charge) We have a mage, but she's on foot and her spells are short ranged debuffs that don't actually target you,  meaning that you will struggle to use them half the time in an eel list as they engage the enemy up the field.  We have a turtle that gives out cover saves, but cover doesn't help on the charge for morsarrs AND has the wholly within 12" rule so you can really be out of place again. 

plus, what we bring on the board is the only things we have through the entire game.  looking at things like Bloodbound, Beasts of chaos and the new goblin stuff everyone can either refill a unit or bring new ones on the board. We cannot, and we are stuck with what we have. if eels become more expensive,  we will have less on the board, and then we are at a huge disadvantage when facing armies that can just summon new dudes on the board for the hell of it.

 

Edited by Acid_Nine
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On 12/24/2018 at 12:39 AM, DantePQ said:

Sure 

Dhoim-Haim I use is :

Volturnos, Aspect of the Storm (Cloud of Midnight), Soulscryer, Tidecaster(Steed of Tides), 9 Morssar, 2x6 Morssar

Fuethan is :

Tidecaster, 2xSoulscryer, Aspect of the Storm(Ethereal Amulet), 9 Morssar, 6 Morssar, 5 Heartrenders 

Looked at this again. Have you stopped using Ishlaen guard? 

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4 hours ago, Amradiel said:

Looked at this again. Have you stopped using Ishlaen guard? 

The Fuethan list also has 20 thralls and 10 reavers but yes neither of them have Ishlaen.

I’ve found the same thing - that the increased defensive abilities of the ishlaen aren’t worth the loss in offensive capabilities of the morrsarr

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So hey guys!!

I've been following these posts now since early 2018 and not having tabled any AoS games as of yet (work is a terrible thing and gets in the way of life :P ), but I'm almost done painting up my Idoneth (this being my very first tabletop army I'm going to play ever.

I'm a little concerned at the fact that it would seem that there are so many discussions revolving around how the deepkin have no competitive edge, but I do not regret my choice in picking them as my first faction as well I am in love with the aesthetics and the lore. 

What I have to my name with regards to models:

1 x Leviadon 
3 x (10) units of Thralls 
1 x Volturnus 
12 x units of eels (these are not painted nor have I decided on which way to go morsarr or the other ones) 
1 x Akhelian Allopexes 
1 x Aspect of the Storm

and then basically 1 of each of the separate models (tidecaster, soulscryer etc)

What would you guys suggest I do with my first list (given what I've got) and what would you suggest I add to make it a little more competitive?

Thank you so much in advance.



 

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2 minutes ago, Niishaw said:

So hey guys!!

I've been following these posts now since early 2018 and not having tabled any AoS games as of yet (work is a terrible thing and gets in the way of life :P ), but I'm almost done painting up my Idoneth (this being my very first tabletop army I'm going to play ever.

I'm a little concerned at the fact that it would seem that there are so many discussions revolving around how the deepkin have no competitive edge, but I do not regret my choice in picking them as my first faction as well I am in love with the aesthetics and the lore. 

What I have to my name with regards to models:

1 x Leviadon 
3 x (10) units of Thralls 
1 x Volturnus 
12 x units of eels (these are not painted nor have I decided on which way to go morsarr or the other ones) 
1 x Akhelian Allopexes 
1 x Aspect of the Storm

and then basically 1 of each of the separate models (tidecaster, soulscryer etc)

What would you guys suggest I do with my first list (given what I've got) and what would you suggest I add to make it a little more competitive?

Thank you so much in advance.



 

Hello 

you have everything that I run in my tournament list currently which is a little bit different from the normal lists but I like. 

Realm: Hysh 

Enclave: Fuethan

Volty, general. Mainly for his command ability

tidecaster,Spell: Steed of tides. Artifact: Aetherquartz brooch

soulscryer, cloud of midnight

10 thralls 

2x6 morsar eels 

shark 

turtle 

Akhelian corps 

1900

 Start the game with 3 command points and just play round you opponent till your turn 3 drop a bunch of command points on volty ability for +1 attack on the eels and turtle on anarage about +7 attacks on them.  That’s what I’m currently playing, it’s good fun 

 

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13 hours ago, Amradiel said:

Looked at this again. Have you stopped using Ishlaen guard? 

Yep Fuethan has Thralls and Reavers 

 Ishlaen Guard do not suit Deepkin playstyle at this moment. Ishlaen are really bad against mortal wounds and sitting on objectives is a  waste of points. They would be great support unit for any other Deepkin playstyle but right now Thralls lists are bad because there is almost nothing in the Battletome to support such playstyle. It's all about Morssar right now. 

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9 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Yep Fuethan has Thralls and Reavers 

 Ishlaen Guard do not suit Deepkin playstyle at this moment. Ishlaen are really bad against mortal wounds and sitting on objectives is a  waste of points. They would be great support unit for any other Deepkin playstyle but right now Thralls lists are bad because there is almost nothing in the Battletome to support such playstyle. It's all about Morssar right now. 

Makes me glad that I never got the time to glue my stuff together 😅 

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9 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Yep Fuethan has Thralls and Reavers 

 Ishlaen Guard do not suit Deepkin playstyle at this moment. Ishlaen are really bad against mortal wounds and sitting on objectives is a  waste of points. They would be great support unit for any other Deepkin playstyle but right now Thralls lists are bad because there is almost nothing in the Battletome to support such playstyle. It's all about Morssar right now. 

And yet all the highest placing lists in UK tournaments have 30 thralls in and the players swear by them being critical to the lists 

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5 minutes ago, Lord-Of-Scotland said:

And yet all the highest placing lists in UK tournaments have 30 thralls in and the players swear by them being critical to the lists 

Not really Les Martin had great results with Volturnos list so your point is just false. 

And my Thralls lists I mean Thralls focused lists not some Thralls that fill up Battleline in Fuethan lists as they are very hand and crucial but those lists are Morssar heavy alpha strikes. 

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2 hours ago, Lord-Of-Scotland said:

Hello 

you have everything that I run in my tournament list currently which is a little bit different from the normal lists but I like. 

Realm: Hysh 

Enclave: Fuethan

Volty, general. Mainly for his command ability

tidecaster,Spell: Steed of tides. Artifact: Aetherquartz brooch

soulscryer, cloud of midnight

10 thralls 

2x6 morsar eels 

shark 

turtle 

Akhelian corps 

1900

 Start the game with 3 command points and just play round you opponent till your turn 3 drop a bunch of command points on volty ability for +1 attack on the eels and turtle on anarage about +7 attacks on them.  That’s what I’m currently playing, it’s good fun 

 

13

Thanks, this really does give me something to work off of, I will have a look and see how they play and maybe toss in some more thralls or maybe get some reavers for the future as I don't like the lack of ranged support

 

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2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Not really Les Martin had great results with Volturnos list so your point is just false. 

And my Thralls lists I mean Thralls focused lists not some Thralls that fill up Battleline in Fuethan lists as they are very hand and crucial but those lists are Morssar heavy alpha strikes. 

Even les was using a unit of 30.  And they win you games.

theres a list there someone just needs to do it.

 

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57 minutes ago, Niishaw said:

Thanks, this really does give me something to work off of, I will have a look and see how they play and maybe toss in some more thralls or maybe get some reavers for the future as I don't like the lack of ranged support

 

Yeah it does one job very well there’s room for variation.

let me know how it does. 

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24 minutes ago, Lord-Of-Scotland said:

Even les was using a unit of 30.  And they win you games.

theres a list there someone just needs to do it.

 

You're just not accurate first you claimed that all  best tournament lists use 30 Thralls which isn't true 

1) many of them use 20 Thralls and 10 Reavers mostly because of how powerful reverse Tide ability of Tidecaster is especially in Fuethan. If it wasn't for that everyone would be using 3x3 Ishalean or other unit to sit on objective or to capture one. 

2) Les Martin list that he got great results with is without Thralls its Volturnos, Aspect, Tidecaster, Soulscryers and 3x6 Morssar if I am correct, maybe he played with Thralls but his best results with Deepkin (and one of the best results by Deepkins in tournaments) are with Thrall less lists 

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2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

You're just not accurate first you claimed that all  best tournament lists use 30 Thralls which isn't true 

1) many of them use 20 Thralls and 10 Reavers mostly because of how powerful reverse Tide ability of Tidecaster is especially in Fuethan. If it wasn't for that everyone would be using 3x3 Ishalean or other unit to sit on objective or to capture one. 

2) Les Martin list that he got great results with is without Thralls its Volturnos, Aspect, Tidecaster, Soulscryers and 3x6 Morssar if I am correct, maybe he played with Thralls but his best results with Deepkin (and one of the best results by Deepkins in tournaments) are with Thrall less lists 

1: I have seen them in 1 list From blood and glory. 

2: he has played with thralls even using them on the GW stream. He is one good player.  Scottish masters was won with 30 trall list, and 2nd crim bobo. There been better results. 

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50 minutes ago, Lord-Of-Scotland said:

1: I have seen them in 1 list From blood and glory. 

2: he has played with thralls even using them on the GW stream. He is one good player.  Scottish masters was won with 30 trall list, and 2nd crim bobo. There been better results. 

And ? 

I just wrote that

a) there has been very succesful list WITHOUT Thralls Les was 6th at Blackout (best ID) 

b) almost any succsful list run more than 30 Namarti in total (3x10) just to fill battleline slots, sure they are crucial in those lists but are taken becasue of Tidecaster anybody would swap Thralls for Ishalean(as they woud work better at Thralls job in those lists) if they didn't have to take them. 

Also I was answering a question why I don't use Ishlean guards and my thoughts and reasoning about it as I had great results both with DoK(for examle winning Thone of Skulls Europe) and ID in competitive play . 

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3x10 Thralls is to fill the battleline requirements, but also to give numbers for objectives, to give more reliable damage in high tide (always has rend if not charging), deny space better than 3 ishlean and to be underestimated. 

Plan to eventually go to 4x10 Thralls as they are absolutely amazing. Yes, I don't see a 5-0 Deepkin list without 15-18 eels, but I also don't see them without 30+ Thralls. 

Not to say 18+ Eel spam +Volty lists aren't good, but they are  overshadowed by the lists with 30+ Thralls. 

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I think you guys are misunderstanding what @DantePQ is saying. 

The Thralls in those list obviously serve a function, they have to be in the list, and therefore must be made to do some work. 

It is however a function of early floodtide, and high tide that makes them useful even when you must take them.

Given the fullest of construction opportunities I would imaging you would still see 10+. But, in a list designed around killing the opponent's ability to fight back as soon as possible Ishlaen may have covered their role suffeciently while being better supported by the options on the book.

I don't like the economy in the book it's the primary issue the faction faces. I don't think they will fix it either, I suspect they just add more units in the future that double down on the problem.

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