AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[zombiepiratexxx]

This is why I am considering IDK as my first army, because they're an elite faction. I don't have the time or the inclination to paint 100 basic troops models (if I did I'd be playing DoK). I specifically want something that has a smaller number of models, means I can spend more time painting them to a higher standard, as well as not having to purchase a huge number of models. 

[Sonnenspeer]

56 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

You want to trade 4 quality rend 1 attacks, for 1 additional gimmick attack?

I don't want to come across as overly rude. However, maybe don't read too much into your first game, and get some practice in before critically analyzing warscrolls.

The mounts have different attack types because in an elite army you have to expect your models to be able to engage multiple types of enemy models. Each attack profile is good against different types of models, as well as both being good against hordes. 

Provides some resistance to negative hit modifiers, and is synergistic with our 1 and only  command ability.

High utility is what seperated good elite armies from terrible elites armies. 

Get some different coloured dice and get on with it.

Thanks for not being rude - but I don't agree. You still have two different melee attack profiles for "high utility" . Sure the trade I did was not calculated well, but the point is still valid. Maybe add one to the bites damage and it works even better with the command ability. But anyway, thats GWs job...

[christophe]

My man complain with ID : 1 king, 2x3 saber eels, a shark and a turtle = 1040... Pity, it would have been such a sexy and fluffy 1000 pts army... I hope the shark or the turtle will get a points reduction at some point. (or a cheaper see-creature battleline in a couple of years... beside some crazy hermit crabs, lantern fish,  urchin, wales, octopus stuff...)

[JackStreicher]

14 minutes ago, christophe said:

My man complain with ID : 1 king, 2x3 saber eels, a shark and a turtle = 1040... Pity, it would have been such a sexy and fluffy 1000 pts army... I hope the shark or the turtle will get a points reduction at some point. (or a cheaper see-creature battleline in a couple of years... beside some crazy hermit crabs, lantern fish,  urchin, wales, octopus stuff...)

Sharks currently suck. I guess they‘ll drop 20-40pts

[Black Blade]

On 10/16/2018 at 12:12 AM, Mark Williams said:

My local player zapped me twice with it and I 

Seen this happen in my area. Local IDK player smashed everyone for a couple months then the games evened out a bit, and they settled into a mid-spot in our local tourneys.

What strategies are they using to avoid or disrupt high tide for you?

[newsun]

3 hours ago, Black Blade said:

What strategies are they using to avoid or disrupt high tide for you?

I don't know specifically this instance though a few things are to lock units up the turn before and only offer chaff t3. Both can make high tide underwhelming. 

[Talagan]

Hello folks.

I found an issue playing Idoneth Deepkin with allied units. In the High Tide, when I've made all the attacks with my Idoneth units during my turn, then, can I attack with one of my allied units before the enemy? Acording to the rules, it seems like I can when it's my turn.

Don't know if the question has already been asked there, apologies if it's the case.

[Takaloy]

50 minutes ago, Talagan said:

Hello folks.

I found an issue playing Idoneth Deepkin with allied units. In the High Tide, when I've made all the attacks with my Idoneth units during my turn, then, can I attack with one of my allied units before the enemy? Acording to the rules, it seems like I can when it's my turn.

Don't know if the question has already been asked there, apologies if it's the case.

No. allegiance abilities do not affect allies. Tides of Death in this case. 

 

However, there are two exceptions. 

1. When you take a non-named hero as general in Ionrach. They are locked into an allegiance ability that grants allies the "tides of death" ability.

2. When you take the "alliance of wood and sea" battalion.

 

Hope this answers your question.

[Talagan]

54 minutes ago, Takaloy said:

No. allegiance abilities do not affect allies. Tides of Death in this case. 

 

However, there are two exceptions. 

1. When you take a non-named hero as general in Ionrach. They are locked into an allegiance ability that grants allies the "tides of death" ability.

2. When you take the "alliance of wood and sea" battalion.

 

Hope this answers your question.

I understand, but it's not really the issue.

Assuming we are in Battle Round 3, and it's my turn. I have 2000 points of idoneth including, let's say, a unit of liberators and one of judicators as allies. First, I attack with all my idoneth Units, not with the stormcast as they don't have the tide if death rule and do no benefit from High Tide.  But then, we start fighting as normal with the rest of the units (so, enemies and the stormcast). As it's my turn, I think I would be able to fight with one of my stormcast units, then, one enemy unit, then my other stormcast unit and so on... In the other player's turn, I would also attack with my idoneth, but then, the other player starts the combat phase as normal with one of his units, before I do with my stormcasts.

So basically I know my stormcast will not benefit from the rule except in the situations you said, but as the high tide rule say that after all idoneth made their attack, all the rest of the units act as normal, I understant I would fight first with one of my allies before the enemi does. In a 2 vs 2 game for example, my mate will start attacking after my idoneth but before the enemy, if it's our turn (excepting the other team has an Idoneth player too).

 

That's my interpretation, but i had the discussion with another player.

 

Thanks for the answer! What do you think about this?

[Keggers]

2 hours ago, Talagan said:

I understand, but it's not really the issue.

Assuming we are in Battle Round 3, and it's my turn. I have 2000 points of idoneth including, let's say, a unit of liberators and one of judicators as allies. First, I attack with all my idoneth Units, not with the stormcast as they don't have the tide if death rule and do no benefit from High Tide.  But then, we start fighting as normal with the rest of the units (so, enemies and the stormcast). As it's my turn, I think I would be able to fight with one of my stormcast units, then, one enemy unit, then my other stormcast unit and so on... In the other player's turn, I would also attack with my idoneth, but then, the other player starts the combat phase as normal with one of his units, before I do with my stormcasts.

So basically I know my stormcast will not benefit from the rule except in the situations you said, but as the high tide rule say that after all idoneth made their attack, all the rest of the units act as normal, I understant I would fight first with one of my allies before the enemi does. In a 2 vs 2 game for example, my mate will start attacking after my idoneth but before the enemy, if it's our turn (excepting the other team has an Idoneth player too).

 

That's my interpretation, but i had the discussion with another player.

 

Thanks for the answer! What do you think about this?

I would assume that it works in the way you're thinking. Friendly Deepkin strike first during High Tide and then the rest of the units act as normal (i.e. Deepkin attack, your normal activation, your opponent's activation, and so on).

[Paladin of Khorne]

Hey all, I’m considering taking the plunge (oof) into the ID when the new Battleforce drops, and wanted to know if it’s a smart idea. 

I am attracted to the aesthetics, colors, uniqueness of the faction, the tide table, and the ability to field a smallish AoS force. 

Im a bit leery of this supposed reliance on eels; they’re expensive and I don’t really like spamming units to have a fun, semi competitive gaming session. 

Can you make a fun and effective list utilizing a few different heroes, a good core of the infantry (archers included) and a smattering of the monsters?

I don’t want to buy 15-20 eels to have fun playing the game with the army, so if that’s what is necessary I won’t bother with the battleforce. Thanks!

[Fulkes]

Jumping into the deep end here, but it's thematic I suppose: I just got back into the fantasy side of Warhammer recently (coincidently just in time for my flgs to be running an escalation league) and after considering building a 7th ed Vampire Counts style army out of LoN I latched onto the Deepkin for two reasons: I like the models, and my flgs actually stocks them regularly. Now I know that the most competetive option is eels, but as I enjoy the Namarti more I've latched onto focusing on them as the main thrust of my army. As such I've started digging into trying to balance the weaknesses of the army. As such, let's try and get a list going of the problems facing a Namarti focused list:

1. Low Mobility
2. Poor Durability
3. Low Bravery
4. Poor Synergy Options

So what can we do to mitigate these problems (spoilered for anyone who wants to just skip to the end and see what I'm looking at running and aren't as concerned with why)?

1. Low Mobility: Here the Namarti have a couple of options for support: Soulscryers and Rune of Surging Tide. Soulscryers allow us to take 2 units and essentially outflank our opponent's lines while ensuring a strong possibility of getting a charge, even on turn 1. This does mean we need to end our charges closer, but even the threat of this can force an opponent to take a less optimal deployment allowing us to instead us the Soulscryer to help us secure objectives on our opponent's side of the table.

The Rune of Surging Tide is a rather small bonus for the army, only really helping us dictate the army's movement on turn 1 or 2 if I'm going to be honest. Increasing our own movement by 1" or decreasing the opponent's by 1" isn't enough to make or break the game but it does give us better flexibility to ensure we get the charges off on turn 2 that we need to rip the heart out of the opponent's lines.

Now there may be other options but because I only have the Deepkin book for now, I'll have to wait to dig into other ways we can buff things this way.

2. Poor Durability: Durability has some obvious ways to be buffed: Forgotten Nightmares, Mystic Shield, the Gloomtide Shipwreck, and Abyssal Darkness to name a few available to us without getting into running specific mortal realms. Forgotten Nightmares means we can easilly control target priority against missle weapons, Mystic Shield buffs the save of a unit without generating a cover save, and Abyssal Darkness can serve as a way to generate a cover save when we're not in Low Tide.

For Namarti heavy lists special consideration should be made for Mor'phann enclaves. With a Soulreaver in a Namarti Corps you're regenerating 6 Namarti a turn, and outside of the Corps you're bringing back 4-6 a turn as well. Toss in an Aspect of the Sea and you're now bringing back an additional D3 with Cloying Mists. We're no LoN army, but when running Namarti heavy lists this should be a contributing factor, and it can play a key roll in supporting a larger block of Thralls (due to the discount for 30) as you can easilly push the unit numbers back up, even if you are forced to lose more models to battleshock (more on that in the next point).

One option I'm still struggling to work while trying to address the bravery issue is fitting in the Leviadon. While the large base makes it easier to keep units wholly within 12", the model's size can work against it for trying to protect a unit while also addressing the poor bravery of units. Paired with its high points cost and it competes with the more expensive, but also more synergistic Aspect of the Sea, which brings me to my next point...

3. Low Bravery: Sadly the hidden traumas caused by Slaanesh never really end since it leaves use sitting at Bravery 6 for a number of units, especially the Namarti who are more prone to suffering battle shock than other units. This doesn't mean we're completely out of options, but it does mean that at least for the first two turns we're going to be moving a tight cluster up the board to protect the army. Or rather, we should be running a large screening unit up the board wrapping around a couple of characters to ensure they get the leadership buffs they need.

Now the Aspect of the Sea actually shines here with the +3 Leadership to units wholly in 9", large base size and ability to increase that even further with Lord of Storm and Sea pushing that bonus to +5 inside of 9" and +2" for 10-12". That alone pushes a unit from bravery 6 to bravery 11, and pairing the Aspect's base size into the equation he'll be covering roughly the same amount of space with that 9" as smaller models do with their 12". Add in Lotann and that unit inside of 9" is now bravery 12 and if they're within 12" they're still bravery 9. Alternatively, if you're comfortable with a smaller unit, replace the Aspect of the Sea with the Soulrender from the Namarti Corps and you still have a 12" bubble of bravery 9 to support a screening unit with. Add in the ability to regain 6 models every hero phase and you're not exactly a slouch at tanking those casualties.

The downside of the Soulrender being the general of course is having a squishier general that could end up being hit by magic, so the Aspect of the Sea definitely deserves special mention for helping create target saturation and being able to potentially help regain even more models than the Soulreaver would alone. To this end, I'd recommend taking the Arcane Pearl on the Aspect as the 5+ shrug against mortal wounds will keep him running longer and keep him from needing to worry about healing himself as much (outside of his self-heal for not using rerolls for magic of course).

4. Poor Synergy: I don't have a lot of ways to really fix this one sadly. For Namarti the most important things are largely focused around synergies to increase their movement (Rune of Surging Tide, Soulscryer) or addressing keeping models on the board (Mor'phann, Leviadon, Aspect of the Sea) we don't have a lot of ways to meet those requirements while also providing bonuses to the rest of the army.

But that isn't to say we don't have any. Volturnos is a popular choice (followed by the Akhelian King), but honestly since he requires being your general to use his own I'd rather stick him in a Royal Council and use that Command Ability instead since the bonus to leadership mentioned above is more important to the Namarti regardless of unit size (and while Volturnos does give a +1 Bravery to units wholly within 18" on a good sized base, the Aspect of the Sea gives a bigger bravery buff (even if he's not your general) making him more instrumental to supporting the main line of the army). That said, extra attacks are definitely not bad and in smaller games I'd consider Volturnos instead of the Aspect to support the line, or take him as the General instead of the Aspect and deal with the +4 bravery of Lotann and the Aspect to anchor the line instead of the +6 from Lotann, the Aspect and the Command Ability.

The Soulscryer provides the army some synergy for mobility and I've got a general idea of how I'm looking at approaching this idea for greater benefit a little bit later after I talk about my 2k list. There is some synergy (as fellow ranged units) between the Allopex to gain rerollable charges if you can injure a unit with it's shooting and/or the shooting from a unit of nearby Reavers, and the smaller unit size (of 1) makes sneaking it into the enemy lines is easier with either fly or the Soulscryer's movement but I know that isn't enough to sell the unit to anyone as it's likely overcosted right now and that's holding it back. Morrsaar Guard though will still be seen as the better assassins as their ability to buff their melee by charging paired with the outflank of the Soulscryer and the ability to fly and dish out mortal wounds, so I'd consider the Allopex less of an assassin as much as a dedicated harrassment unit that pairs well with another harrassment unit (that could likely stand to go down a few points as well).

So what does this mean exactly for building a Namarti heavy army? Well generally speaking, the list is going to need a few things: leadership buffs, at least one large unit to screen the rest of the army from alpha strikes and ranged damage while it pushes forward, a means to increase the speed of the army for at least a turn, a way to put pressure on the opponent's army as a means of disruption to allow the main force properly position itself.

Now with all that rolling around in my head and trying to build this so the entire thing rolls smoothly I decided on the following list:

Heros
Aspect of the Sea (Arcane Pearl, Abyssal Darkness)
Lotann
Soulscryer
Soulrender (General, Lord of Storm and Sea, Rune of the Surging Tide)
Total: 740

Battleline
Namarti Thralls (20)
Namarti Thralls (10)
Namarti Reavers (20)
Namarti Reavers (10)
Total: 560

Other
Namarti Reavers (20)
Namarti Reavers (10)
Morrsarr Guard (3)
Allopex (1)
Namarti Corps
Gloomtide Shipwreck (2)
Total: 540

Total: 1,980/2000

So I really went back and forth on this one for a bit. Do I run 2 units of Eels or take an Allopex just because it looks cool and I can increase its odds of getting into combat by shooting with Reavers and its Harpoon launcher? In the end the Allopex won out, and if I decide to change things for the future I can easilly replace it with a unit of Morrsarr Guard and be snugly at 2,000 points.

So to keep deployment from turning into a field manual on army tactics, the general plan is Lotann and the Soulrender form the center of the army just in front of the Aspect of the Sea but behind the large unit of Reavers. The large Reaver block and the Allopex go with the Soulscryer to pop up on the opponent's board edge on turn 1 to claim an objective and harrass the enemy lines while forcing the opponent to deal with 33 wounds of models on their table side with missle weapons before they can target the rest of the army. If the Soulscryer gets the no-cover ritual off it's a bonus, but I'm not counting on it.

The other two Thrall units set up on either side of the Aspect of the Sea with the Morrsarr in the middle as the Aspect and the Morrsarr can jump out when the army gets closer to the opposing lines or hop over the Thralls to deal with units that manage to hit the Thralls early on. Command points will largely be spent on the generic command abilities (getting a 13" move out of the large block of Thralls on turn 1 or turn 2 with a 6" advance, 6" move and the +1" from the Rune is rather important to getting them stuck in for example).

I don't have any belief that this is going to be a top tier army, even if I swapped the Allopex for a large unit of Morrsarr to wrecking ball into my opponent's lines turn 1, but I feel like this is just about as optimized as you can make a Namarti focused army at the time and it's a list I'm looking forward to fielding, if for no reason other than to do something other than just run eels.

That said, I'm probably still going to build an eel list as I like the way that looks too.

And as a bonus for making everyone read through all my dribble, here's my WIP Lotann:

Edited November 5, 2018 by Fulkes

[Nerdkingdan]

1 hour ago, Paladin of Khorne said:

Hey all, I’m considering taking the plunge (oof) into the ID when the new Battleforce drops, and wanted to know if it’s a smart idea. 

I am attracted to the aesthetics, colors, uniqueness of the faction, the tide table, and the ability to field a smallish AoS force. 

Im a bit leery of this supposed reliance on eels; they’re expensive and I don’t really like spamming units to have a fun, semi competitive gaming session. 

Can you make a fun and effective list utilizing a few different heroes, a good core of the infantry (archers included) and a smattering of the monsters?

I don’t want to buy 15-20 eels to have fun playing the game with the army, so if that’s what is necessary I won’t bother with the battleforce. Thanks!

Fun and Effective?   I would say maybe.

My local group is not that great competition wise.   They play bad factions and poor lists.   When I take an eel list I crush them.   When I take a mix army with unit variety including reavers, I still win but it’s not by much.

if my opponents were running optimized lists and top factions it would not be a real option.

[Mark Williams]

20 minutes ago, Nerdkingdan said:

Fun and Effective?   I would say maybe.

My local group is not that great competition wise.   They play bad factions and poor lists.   When I take an eel list I crush them.   When I take a mix army with unit variety including reavers, I still win but it’s not by much.

if my opponents were running optimized lists and top factions it would not be a real option.

I admit that I play a pretty competitive stormcast  list, yet I really don’t enjoy playing against eel based armies. To be frank it’s the fact that they can delete two units at the same time on a charge. This forces me to build an alpha strike type list that relies on us just sort of jockeying for board position while trying to mitigate turn 3 wipeout and hoping to bait each other into exposing our armies first.

 I understand the basic strategy behind playing against it, and what I need to do to win, but it still makes for a bit of a frustrating game, that often comes down to a handful of crucial turn priority rolls. I don’t feel like there’s much strategy on either side of the table, and we’re basically just bashing each other in the face trying to overwhelm each other’s armies. I can’t describe it any better than that, but I basically have just started to dread playing this particular matchup. The fact that in order to deal with it, I basically have to do the exact same thing (with evocators) doesn’t sit well with me. Instead it makes me feel like the game is escalating in an unhealthy way, and it makes me worry for the health and future of the game.

[Fulkes]

Right now it feels like the problem the Deepkin face is largely wrapped up in their limited options for supporting Namarti, the need for some points adjustments on certain units (Allopex for example) and generally a need for some more unit synergy beyond taking a King and Eels. I see see some options for running Namarti more effectively, but the list basically involves running a large block of Namarti up the board supported by other units while you try to tank wounds on a large unit along the way.

[schwabbele]

2 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

To be frank it’s the fact that they can delete two units at the same time on a charge.

Hmm care to explain, or do you mean during high tide?

[DocKeule]

2 hours ago, Fulkes said:

Right now it feels like the problem the Deepkin face is largely wrapped up in their limited options for supporting Namarti, the need for some points adjustments on certain units (Allopex for example) and generally a need for some more unit synergy beyond taking a King and Eels. I see see some options for running Namarti more effectively, but the list basically involves running a large block of Namarti up the board supported by other units while you try to tank wounds on a large unit along the way.

That is a double edged sword. You have very few synergies but the basic overall stats are way obove other factions, If you take Thralls that have 2-3 attacks in 3+ 3+ with -1 rend and 1-2 damage...a lot of heroes from other factions don't hit that well and that is your basic battleline unit, If you would add more buffs or synergies on top of that GW would have to raise points costs to keep the balance.

Plus the advantage of having few buffs is that your army does not grow weaker when you lose one component of the formular.

[whispersofblood]

3 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

I admit that I play a pretty competitive stormcast  list, yet I really don’t enjoy playing against eel based armies. To be frank it’s the fact that they can delete two units at the same time on a charge. This forces me to build an alpha strike type list that relies on us just sort of jockeying for board position while trying to mitigate turn 3 wipeout and hoping to bait each other into exposing our armies first.

 I understand the basic strategy behind playing against it, and what I need to do to win, but it still makes for a bit of a frustrating game, that often comes down to a handful of crucial turn priority rolls. I don’t feel like there’s much strategy on either side of the table, and we’re basically just bashing each other in the face trying to overwhelm each other’s armies. I can’t describe it any better than that, but I basically have just started to dread playing this particular matchup. The fact that in order to deal with it, I basically have to do the exact same thing (with evocators) doesn’t sit well with me. Instead it makes me feel like the game is escalating in an unhealthy way, and it makes me worry for the health and future of the game.

You have just described 100% of battles between elite combat armies. Maybe, you just hadn't noticed because sce have been running over every other elite combat army to date? 

[Mark Williams]

31 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Hmm care to explain, or do you mean during high tide?

The main opponent I play against is volturnos, tidecaster (deep strikeboard edge), aspect of storm, 12 akellon eels, 30 thralls. He just goes full aggro every game. If I don’t kill him before turn three he pretty much wipes me off the board that turn. I’ve had some success alpha striking him, and also just spreading my units out, but in general it’s just a very quick, decisive game every time.

 The eels, when they charge, generally aim to multi charge me, to hit two units at once. Normal attacks kill the charged unit, mortal wounds kill the 2nd.

If I get caught in a bad position on turn 3 near volturnos, it just gets stupid...

[Mark Williams]

5 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

You have just described 100% of battles between elite combat armies. Maybe, you just hadn't noticed because sce have been running over every other elite combat army to date? 

I’m mostly aware. My post was meant to offer an explanation and some insight towards the poster I quoted.  He was wondering why his hobby group isn’t just bringing more competitive armies, and choosing not to play him. I gave my perspective as to why that might be.

[schwabbele]

8 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

The eels, when they charge, generally aim to multi charge me, to hit two units at once. Normal attacks kill the charged unit, mortal wounds kill the 2nd.

Hehe ok , basically the same what sce  do with evo's when opponent has his units "badly" lined up   hmm I see no issue here. 

I am asking, because I got a box full of ID stuff lying around and I am still unsure whether I sell them or keep them as my 2nd army

[Mark Williams]

6 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Hehe ok , basically the same what sce  do with evo's when opponent has his units "badly" lined up   hmm I see no issue here. 

I am asking, because I got a box full of ID stuff lying around and I am still unsure whether I sell them or keep them as my 2nd army

Like I said, I’ve essentially had to do the same thing in order to fight against it. My concern is that the game feels like it’s just escalating in this way, and I don’t find these types of matchups fun in a casual friendly setting. It’s a stressful game to me. 

[DocKeule]

I was at a two-day tournament in Oldenburg in north-wet Germany last weekend. It was part of a local games exebition called "Oldenburger Spiele-Tage" (Oldenburg games days) with other tournaments like 40k, LoR, historicals and others and regular family-games for tryouts.

I ran:
Akhelian King
2 Tidecasters
Soulrender
Lotann

3x 10 Thralls
3x 3 Ishlaen Guard
9 Morrsarr Guard

at 1960/2000 points.

The first game was "Battle For The Pass" against Ironjaes with some Bonesplitter allies and rather onesided in my favour. My opponent was an exchange student from Canada and had only brought a small part of his coollection over to Germany. He started the first round due to a batallion and he captured most of the objectives but from then on I chopped away on his army until I tabled im round 4 and with 35:5 in points.

I don't like games like this even if I am the one winning them because you can tell that your opponent does not enjoy the experience. I wouldn't either. But pointswise it was certainly a good start for my fish-gang.

Second match was "Scorched Earth" against Sylvaneth. My oppenent hat fewer drops but would still have me start the first round. I thought I had positioned my army well for a charge in the second round but it  turned out that I had underestimated his mobility. He charged pretty much all my units first turn which caused me to retreat second turn and lose round to do much (the Ishlaen are OK not having charged but the Morrsarr are really weak without a charge I think).

We both rolled kind of poorly when when we burned the other's objectives. I had his Alarielle at the brink of death but then turned my eels to one of his objectives to stay in the game what later bit me in the ass. In the end I lost 9:11 in points.




The third and last match for day one was "Shifting Objectives" against flesheaters. Again ge started the first round due to fewer drops and took als three objectives. I charged him turn one and took out most of his HQ units until the start of turn three but lost some time rolling low  and not being able to kill his General and free my Morrsarr and my King which would hurt me later. He rolled poorly trying to bring back models though so the bad luck was kind of evenly spread.

I controlled two out of three objectives for most of the game but he was lucky that his one stayed the main objective for three rounds straight wich caused him to win 11:14  even though I had killed everything apart from one Criptghour Courtier from his army while about two thirds of my army was still on the table.




Day two started with "Focal Points" against Khorne, As usual I had more drops and my opponent would start the game. Then I would charge most units in turn two. My Thralls did kind of well at first (as seen on this picture) against his cavellery but I had kind of a hard time positioning my Morrsarr to be able to charge his bloodthirster (his general also). His killed two units of thralls in the second turn with prayers but with the higher mobility I was able to control more and more objectives, I was lucky that he charged his generals into my Morrsarr turn four which would have stuck being in melee with Chaos Warriors otherwise so I was able to kill him with the held of the once per game energy attack. 

Controlling all objectives at the end of turn five I gained nine points and won 17:11.

 

 

The last match was "Duality Of Death" against a Nurgle player that had pretty much dominated the tournament so far. He play a combination that with the bell on the great unclean one, the batallion, the Nurgle Trees  and the Chronomatic Cogs would allow him to run about 16-18 inches and then charge which I find kinf of reciolous - not from him but from GW because it negates the while charakter of Nurgle armies.

He started the first round but was only able to charge one unit into two units of Ishlaen and the big Morrsarr unit so I killed that of easily. I then charged my Morsarr into his great unclean one and with the energy-attack I was able to kill him first round (on this picture he is just about to go down). From then  on the match slowed down. I was able to get a hold of both objectives at one point but due to hsi reinforcements ran out of heroes to hold them at some point. So did he but he would just summon new one. 



In the end I finished fourth with the same amout of primary points as the third. I will not run Lotann again in any competetive lists, I hoped the reroll og 1 to hit would help but pretty much every time I charged the Thralls at least one was outside the bubble. Holding them back would have ment fewer models in close combat so that were wasted 100 points,

I am still not sure about the Morrsarr, If you get a large number charged into another unit they are pretty effective  but if the opponents take the charge away from them or you don't have enough space to position them for are charge or the charge itself they are mediocre at best and crumble quickly. The Ishlaen are at lest more durable because they ignore rend all the time.

I will consider running batallions at future tournaments. I don't think any of them is worth the points they cost (or the Akhelian Corps would be I you didn't have to run the Leviadon and the Allopex) but being able to dictate who gets the first turn what here would have ment to take most objectives in most games and leaves the opponent having to fight me off of them would have been a huge advantage. On the other hand the leviadon would swallow the points for the Thralls and I would have much less bodies in the field to hold objectives or simply for board control.

 

[MirageFive]

Mount questions because I've found conflicting answers via Google and am not sure where I'd start to dig through the rules to find this answer.

For the Akhelian King:
1) Does Akhelian Paragon apply to mount attacks? It says "re-roll hit rolls of 1 for friendly Akhelian units while they are wholly within 12" of this model." A similar rule would be "Drench with Hate" on the Aspect of the Storm. 

2) Does the Lord of Tides Command Ability apply to mount attacks? It reads "Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by that unit until your next hero phease." The eel's attacks are listed under melee weapons, but I wanted to check whether they should benefit from +1 attack as well or not. 

I assume both rules do apply to the mounts, but wanted to double check. If not, would you please cite where this is indicated? Thanks! 

Edited November 5, 2018 by MirageFive

[DocKeule]

1. In my opinion that should apply to the mounts attacks because they are part oftbthe unit.

2. Here it shoulp not apply because the mount does not use weappons.