AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[LordRhulak]

So we know that the AoS FAQ is coming out this month. A lot of people are very vocal about the Idoneth being too good or them causing a negative play experience . Eels and sharks undercosted, high tide to good etc. (most of which is probably true.) So it seems to me that we are going to see some pretty sharp points increases to the Akhelian part of the army. I'm also think there will be points drops for  Namarti + Ishrann  (looking at you Lotann). Do you think that this might change the way the army is played? Maybe more of an even split between the different parts? I think it could put the army in a very interesting place. I don't think we will see high tide go, however. That seems to be too big a change for an FAQ. What are peoples thoughts?

 

[mrteige]

i dont think we will see a lot of changes. We just had points changes for some units in broken realms and because of the lack of tournament data it is hard to change points. maybe Morrsarr will go up a bit but both sharks and turtles went up in points so i dont think they will touch them this time around.

I could be wrong but there is a lot of cases where things havent had the point increase they should... ... Kroak... ... But i do think they will be increased this summer instead

[woolf]

On 1/8/2021 at 11:24 PM, LordRhulak said:

Hello

How are people managing to glue the flying stands on the eels? Do you have any tips?

I've only done three but it took a ridiculous amount of time!

 

I drilled into the flying stand and used a piece of a paperclip to pin with superglue. this has worked quite well actually but you need to be a bit careful when drilling to not break the flying stand

[woolf]

2 hours ago, LordRhulak said:

So we know that the AoS FAQ is coming out this month. A lot of people are very vocal about the Idoneth being too good or them causing a negative play experience . Eels and sharks undercosted, high tide to good etc. (most of which is probably true.) So it seems to me that we are going to see some pretty sharp points increases to the Akhelian part of the army. I'm also think there will be points drops for  Namarti + Ishrann  (looking at you Lotann). Do you think that this might change the way the army is played? Maybe more of an even split between the different parts? I think it could put the army in a very interesting place. I don't think we will see high tide go, however. That seems to be too big a change for an FAQ. What are peoples thoughts?

 

I don't think much will change, high tide is a core mechanic so that won't change in a FAQ for sure, maybe in a new book it could.

I think rather than nerf idoneth that now all of sudden seems to have got decent internal balance with sharks/turtle/eidolon/eels (and maybe namarti too?) all being viable options, they should rather go the route of using Brokrn realm updates to bring the weaker armies up to our level, and my guess is that is what they will do. unlikely they will change any of the points updated in BR as normally they wait longer with points updates.

[yukishiro1]

High Tide is going nowhere, Morathi was the place to make rules changes if they were going to. 

Morsarr might get another 10 or 20 points added, other than that it's hard to see anything changing. Thralls and especially Reavers could maybe lose another 10 points too, but I doubt it'll happen. 

[Rhetoric]

Allopex just went up in BR.  I’m guessing Morrsarr will go up 10-20 points.  No way the Allegiance ability gets touched in the Winter FAQ.  The army feels stronger than it did before BR, and bringing Allopex/Leviadon feels good in a competitive game.  Ishlaen Guard are the MVP of the army, maybe they go up as well with the Morrsarr.  I’d say Allopexes will give Morrsarr a run for their money if Morrsarr go up 20 points.  

[stratigo]

As a KO player I just want to say *tag* you're it.

[DocKeule]

Since Daughters of Kaine are next in line for a new battletome I expect IDK to follow not too far after them. In 2018 DoK came in March, IDK in April and the new edition in June. 

Personally I would rather have a new book after the edition change but at least this time I will not barely have my army built and painted before the edge is taken off of them.

[Kitsumy]

Why do u expect morsar nerf?? They arent do good, and others units are the one that got better.

 

I expect 20-40p on turtle ( will be great even at 400) and mayyybe 10p on ishlaen or sharks, and i would make mage avattar even cheaper, archer boys too.

 

Btw do u guys expect a new tome soon? Because i doubt it since we arent getting lot of love, attention wise, despite having top builds on competitive.

[DocKeule]

Apart from Nurgle and DoK (who are up next) the IDK have the third oldest book of all factions. That is why I think we are not too far from a new battletome.

I don't think Morrsarr will be nerved. I do not even find them that good to be honest. On the charge they are fine otherwise they are mediocre. I had a few spectacular moments with nine Morrsarr taking out a Great Unclean One in one turn but all in all Ishlaen have done more for me winning me games or at least keeping games competitive to the end. 

With the current profiles I would not increase any points frankly. But I hope that they bring the IDK up to speed. The newer factions have a lot more and a lot more different buffs and abilities. (I would rather have them stop the power creep but that is not going to happen). And then the points could be up for debate,

Edited January 25, 2021 by DocKeule

[dmorley21]

Hi everyone.

My buddy and I learned to play on TTS the other day. We tried 1k and he gave Deepkin a try - he’s only played AoS once with his old Dark Elf army as a Cities army.

We’re hoping to ramp up to 2k and I was wondering if people had a recommended list that would give him a good feel for the army. While we know eels are great, he’d like to get a feel for the variety of the army... so he wants eels, but not just eels. 
 

I play Nighthaunt so he’s not up against anything too insane.
 

Thanks for any suggestions!

[stratigo]

Eels, a tortle, an Eidolon and 2 to 6 sharks is a good basic army. Some people have been making a thrall tortle army work, but I feel that requires a firmer understanding of the tome than Eel/shark/tortle list.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

 

It´s going to be a good year! Also I have the scenery and a 2nd hand Eidolon waiting.

Let´s have some fun!

[El Antiguo Guardián]

 

[LordRhulak]

In the Honest Wargamer's latest list review, they were reviewing lists for Hammertime 7. Most of the Idoneth lists were Fuethan, which I think is different from the more recent Dom-Hain. Do you think that Fuethan is becoming the better option with the new(ish) broken realms rules?

Most of them didn't flip the tides as well. Do you think that that is a good idea, or do you think that if you are playing Fuethan it is a better idea to flip the tides

[El Antiguo Guardián]

About the tides, it depends of the oponent. With the new BR Rules Fuethan is the best option, I´m playing it with another list and I´m very pleased with them.

[Rhetoric]

I think in high Allopex builds, Fuethan is nice.  I still prefer Dhom Hain though. 

[DocKeule]

I think not being able to retreat and charge again turn four is still a big disadvantage. Even if you don't rely on the charge as much with Allopexes that witha Morrsarr-List it still decreases your mobility and chances to choose the fights you want.

[LordRhulak]

I've played a couple of games with deepkin against my friend's skaven on TTS, and he is really struggling. Are there any tips that you could give to help fight against the deepkin? I am going to tone down my list, but when we get back to normal, I will have to field the Akhelian things, because tht is all I have. And Namarti aren't too bad anymore. He also really strugles to screen well. 

[DocKeule]

9 hours ago, LordRhulak said:

I've played a couple of games with deepkin against my friend's skaven on TTS, and he is really struggling. Are there any tips that you could give to help fight against the deepkin? I am going to tone down my list, but when we get back to normal, I will have to field the Akhelian things, because tht is all I have. And Namarti aren't too bad anymore. He also really strugles to screen well. 

What models does he use?

I see why skaven would struggle against IDK. Playing skaven myself my first instinct would be to go for the Idoneth' vulnerability for mortal wounds and field warplightning cannons. But then again you cannot really deceide which unit you want to shoot at. 

So I would try to to use many cheap bodies (clanrats, plaguemonks, acolytes) for board control and denying movement, magic for mortal wounds and tunneling (gnawholes, warp-grinder teams or stormfiends with grinder fist) plus magic (skitter leap) to get missile units und supporting heroes in position to shoot what they need to shoot. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by DocKeule

[DocKeule]

I played my Skaven against IDK yesterday. I think that might be about the perfect anti-army for the rats. 

The Skaven can slow the Idoneth down putting a lot of small throw away units in their way but their punch lies in their shooting. They don't have much in their arsenal to cut the IDK down in melee especially when they are in the Leviadon bubble.

[LordRhulak]

Ok. That's a shame that they struggle so much, but thank you for youir responses. I guess I'll just stick to my chaos until something changes. 

EDIT: @DocKeule sorry, I forgot to mention that he prefers to run a Pestilens list. Something along the lines of: 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS

Grey Seer (140) - General

Verminlord Corruptor (280)

Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)

Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)

UNITS

40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades

40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades 40 x Plague Monks (280) - Foetid Blades

5 x Plague Censer Bearers (60)

5 x Plague Censer Bearers (60)

BATTALIONS

Congregation of Filth (160)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Warp Lightning Vortex (80)

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by LordRhulak

[Sonnenspeer]

With Voidchill Darkness as mount trait and Armour of the Cythai as Artefact we have -2 to hit for meele attacks against the king. Should I go with that or is the Sanguine Pearl still better (5+ save after Save in melee)?

[Rhetoric]

4 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

With Voidchill Darkness as mount trait and Armour of the Cythai as Artefact we have -2 to hit for meele attacks against the king. Should I go with that or is the Sanguine Pearl still better (5+ save after Save in melee)?

With only seven wounds (+2 wounds trait isn’t as good after BR: Morathi because of Leviadon +1 save) you’re really only getting on average 2 wounds saved.  I think Armour of the  Cythai is nicest right now.  I also really like Lord of Storm and Sea.  Your King shouldn’t be getting shot, -2 to hit in melee, on a 2+ save from Leviadon, the only way he’s dieing is from magic, haha. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Rhetoric

[Sonnenspeer]

41 minutes ago, Rhetoric said:

With only seven wounds (+2 wounds trait isn’t as good after BR: Morathi because of Leviadon +1 save) you’re really only getting on average 2 wounds saved.  I think Armour of the  Cythai is nicest right now.  I also really like Lord of Storm and Sea.  Your King shouldn’t be getting shot, -2 to hit in melee, on a 2+ save from Leviadon, the only way he’s dieing is from magic, haha. 

What about mortals?