AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[Kenvs]

Agreed on the tide caster, it’s 1 dispel however the list is 2k on the nose so hard to swap in the Soulscryer without dropping a shark. If you do you’ll have 70pts spare which could be a command pt.  As for enclave, Fuethan, reroll 1s to wound on all the mount attacks, 1s to hit on T2/4

[kozokus]

On 12/17/2019 at 11:34 PM, Kitsumy said:

Turtle is useless since it is only a beast stick, since the aura is useless 99% if the time,

Eeeh

Except you are not charging 50% of the time....during the opponent turn where you are the most vulnerable.

The turtle is GOLD

It is a stardrake with staunch defender. (I exagerate a little)

[Koradrel of Chrace]

I think you'd have to drop a shark, as sad as that is.  You're kind of all-in with how this army is working, I say you just eat any incoming magic and go hard.  Your Ishlaen chase objectives, and you use your Soulscryer and amushing sharks go mage hunting (except for maybe the random Nagash or Morathi).

[Drofnum]

52 minutes ago, Kenvs said:

Agreed on the tide caster, it’s 1 dispel however the list is 2k on the nose so hard to swap in the Soulscryer without dropping a shark. If you do you’ll have 70pts spare which could be a command pt.  As for enclave, Fuethan, reroll 1s to wound on all the mount attacks, 1s to hit on T2/4

I'm a fan of the Spellweaver if i'm taking a caster and not using reverse tides.  Her spell isnt much use but you at least get an auto dispell which can be crucial depending on your matchups.

I would also run Dhom-Hain personally if you're not going reverse tides.  You're going to want to be charging and killing units anyway, so you get the reroll 1's to hit more often generally and rerolling all wounds against monsters is great for taking down things like a Keeper of Secrets or Terrogheist etc.

[Koradrel of Chrace]

Ha ha ha I love how we're running with this idea!  Funny how out of no where we almost have a viable shark army!

[Koradrel of Chrace]

Also, while drinking and reading this, finally got some hobby time in!  Here's a WIP of my Soulrender.

[Kenvs]

They are used a fair bit in my local meta (Sydney, Australia) and can be scary, they have some bad match ups but are more interesting than mono morsarr as they can shoot and do more than just charge appropriate targets.

I am currently running Slaanesh so they don't worry me (Havent tried under new rules), as I move to my beasts of slaanesh I am alot more scared, they will shoot up my screens and then eat the tasties behind them.

[Sonnenspeer]

So wrapping it all up, if you have 300 something point slot in your army and you want to dish out some damage, you can go with 6 eels of whatever flavour or 3 sharks and nothing is wrong with that. Some say, also a turtle is nice (the batallion with turtle, shark and eels sounds like a good idea).

But I dont know about the eidolons. You cant compare the damage output easily as they are full of abilities and spells. So maybe someone with a lot of experience can tell us when and why to take which eidolon. I know some was explained here and there on this forum (tricks with steed of tide etc.), but till now I dont get the whole picture.

I realy would like to build and paint one over the holidays, but only if he is useable. I even dont know which one to take.  

 

[Kenvs]

Build either eidolon and call it what you want, nobody knows the difference. The storm is good for harassing little characters and has cover, it retreats and charges with fly, so it can hit whatever you want dead.  
 

The sea has a nice spell but the range is very short, I find it lacklustre as it doesn’t really fill a role the army needs.

[Kitsumy]

Melee one is okish, only downside is he is overpriced.

 

Mage one is useless, only need to make ur a question, what do u prefer, 1 monster with 12w and 2 spells/dispells or 4 mages with 20w and 4 spells/dispells? His melee dmg is so low that is irrelevant, he is only a 2 cast mage with +bravery aura,  only worth around 300points for me, but some people thinks he can be good, so im waitting his reasons behind that too

[Darren2607]

Hi all. I have recently purchased some IDK off ebay. I am more a hobbist and only play casually. I am wondering how to build a box of namarti I have. 

Do people have strong views about whether thralls or ravers are better? Do both have a place? 

[Acid_Nine]

12 hours ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:

Not sure if the Tidecaster really adds anything to that list.  He's not keeping up with the rest of your forces, and isn't going to be force multiplying much.  Maybe a Soulscryer instead for potential ambushes with the sharks?  And what enclave would you use?

Eh, gonna have to say I don’t fully agree. I been playing with a tide caster or two for a while, and arcane corrosion is probably the best spell you can have if you want long range support. Just toss out A few mortal wounds every turn on the closest target, and you can kill one ogre,  a few stormcasts or maybe bracket a monster if you’re lucky. Just keep them in back on an objective and keep sniping.

 

there where a few posts on here earlier about the soul scryer, and the more I think about it the more I see that having a support piece that won’t require you to change how you play automatically can be a good idea. 

[Drofnum]

6 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

So wrapping it all up, if you have 300 something point slot in your army and you want to dish out some damage, you can go with 6 eels of whatever flavour or 3 sharks and nothing is wrong with that. Some say, also a turtle is nice (the batallion with turtle, shark and eels sounds like a good idea).

But I dont know about the eidolons. You cant compare the damage output easily as they are full of abilities and spells. So maybe someone with a lot of experience can tell us when and why to take which eidolon. I know some was explained here and there on this forum (tricks with steed of tide etc.), but till now I dont get the whole picture.

I realy would like to build and paint one over the holidays, but only if he is useable. I even dont know which one to take.  

 

Like Kenvs said, just build whichever one you like and play it as both.  I've never had anyone know the difference, not even the other Idoneth players.

 

The storm is just a melee fighter, he's pretty decent at it and survivable if you take something to mitigate MW's.  If you dont he goes down to them fairly easily but his retreat and charge + heal definitely helps keep him alive, he'll kill most characters with 10 or less wounds and clear out most 20 man battleline type units pretty decently as well.  One cool trick with him is to charge a screen or something like that and the next turn retreat over them into the more juicy units.

 

The Sea I personally think is much better than people give him credit for.  In my experience people play him as a backline caster with some fighting, I personally use him quite similar to the storm and just push him up the board, if you give him Abyssal Darkness he is basically always on a 2+, and can mystic shield/command point to get 2+ rerolling.  Once he is up in the fight the range on his spell matters a lot less and getting -1 to hit on the 2-3 units that are up fighting against you can be massive, I like to pair that with Geminids and you can get -2 to hit on most units or -1 hit -1 attack. Sword of judgement is fun for murdering unsuspecting characters but something like Ignax scales definitely helps keep him alive to deliver his spells.

[Siorra]

57 minutes ago, Darren2607 said:

Hi all. I have recently purchased some IDK off ebay. I am more a hobbist and only play casually. I am wondering how to build a box of namarti I have. 

Do people have strong views about whether thralls or ravers are better? Do both have a place? 

Thralls and Reavers kits are seperate, so you can only build what you buy. Unless you're going to be doing some very heavy handed converting.

Both have their merits, though. Generally people will say Thralls, but Reavers aren't much worse in comparison.

[Darren2607]

6 minutes ago, Siorra said:

Thralls and Reavers kits are seperate, so you can only build what you buy. Unless you're going to be doing some very heavy handed converting.

Both have their merits, though. Generally people will say Thralls, but Reavers aren't much worse in comparison.

Oh I see, thanks. I assumed they were multi part kits 

[HollowHills]

As someone mentioned earlier the fact that the sharks have a small shooting attack does mean they can chip a screen before a charge. That's not something eels can do. 

Given screens are generally 1w models with a 5 up save (sometimes 4 up) the shooting could do enough to give you a better charge. That said you are losing movement, so deepstrike may be best. 

You also take up much less base space with sharks than eels, again this can help with deepstrike. 

[Acid_Nine]

You know, I realize that two sharks may be better than a squad of three Akhelian guard? 30 points more, but has 16 wounds and a bunch of rend attacks for the grind.

 

made this list for the heck of it, modifying my old list to remove one squad of three eels and make a bigger unit of sharks;

 

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Mortal Realm: Shyish - Enclave: Dhom-Hain

LEADERS
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Command Trait : Born From Agony - Artefact : Ethereal Amulet

Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Artefact : Rune of the Surging Tide
- Lore of the Deeps : Arcane Corrasion

Isharann Soulscryer (130)

UNITS
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)

6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (340)

3 x Akhelian Allopexes (300)

BEHEMOTHS
Akhelian Leviadon (310)

BATTALIONS
Akhelian Corps (100)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)
 

[tripchimeras]

1 hour ago, HollowHills said:

As someone mentioned earlier the fact that the sharks have a small shooting attack does mean they can chip a screen before a charge. That's not something eels can do. 

Given screens are generally 1w models with a 5 up save (sometimes 4 up) the shooting could do enough to give you a better charge. That said you are losing movement, so deepstrike may be best. 

You also take up much less base space with sharks than eels, again this can help with deepstrike. 

It is definitely an underrated benefit for Sharks, that I think before at their much higher cost was not worth much, because you weren't going to be massing enough of them for it to work.  But 8 sharks reliably can kill (or as good as) a screen a turn, and even 4 can likely do enough damage to put a hole in one.  Again I think its a role that opens up with the pt reduction.  1 or 2 was never going to do much (you are talking about killing 1 or 2 models a turn), but once you hit the point you are averaging 5 or 6 wounds a phase it starts to become a meaningful means of puncturing defenses before a charge.  We KINDA had that with reavers, but the fact that the sharks can actually follow up those shots with a viable charge threat on their own, at 100pts a piece all of a sudden really is quite attractive. 

[Acid_Nine]

A couple a days ago if someone told me that sharks where going to be the on paper all stars I would have laughed, but these new points pretty much just secured two new purchases of sharks at least, so good on them!

[tripchimeras]

Thinking something like this flows really well out of the MSU eels base:

 

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Fuethan

LEADERS
Volturnos, High King of the Deep (280)

Isharann Soulscryer (130)
- Artefact : Cloud of Midnight

Isharann Soulscryer (130)

UNITS
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (200)

2 x Akhelian Allopexes (200)

1 x Akhelian Allopexes (100)

1 x Akhelian Allopexes (100)

6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (340)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)

 

You end up averaging 8 wounds of shooting a turn, which should be enough volume to put holes in most basic screens (though less so when its a horde unit doubling as a screen), and depending on circumstance even allows you to do a little character hunting for wizards with just a 5+ or 6+ armor or wardsave if the screens aren't a problem (6 wounds average with look out sir is good enough to scare most wizards). 

I think there is definitely room for debate and experimentation on the construction of the Allopex unit sizes.  My gut for this list is that in keeping with the MSU nature of our best build, that smaller is better.  I think anything more then 3 has both serious footprint, and leardership concerns.  I like the idea to have 2 sharks solo that can easily fit into semi tight spaces to catch out of place characters, that are fully free of all leadership concerns and bubble needs as well, while having 2 slightly larger units that can benefit well from Volt's turn 3 Command ability and grind a bit also nice.  I could see deciding to go 3 units of 2 or 2 units of 3 after testing, but for now this feels good to me.  Not sure when I will get time to test this out (or buy 4 more sharks for that matter haha), but I like the versatility.

[Titcher]

Hi all,

 

Long time lurker in this forum and thought I would post the list I am planning for next year. 

Fairly new to aos and completely new to deepkin so if I have made any obvious errors feel free to point them out.

Leaders

Akhelian King - general

Isharann Soulrender

Isharann Soulscryer

Celestant prime -ally

Battleline

Thralls -10

Morsarr guard -3

Morsarr guard -3

Morsarr guard -3

Morsarr guard -3

Other

Allopexes -4

Comes to 2000 points on the nose.

I have included the prime because I love the model and I saw another poster use it and loved the idea.

I am planning on using the Soulrender and thralls to sit on an objective and hold it, hopefully pulling replacing any losses using the Soulrender's ability.

The scryer and sharks will be kept on reserve and used as a behind the screens monster/mage hunting force.

Although I am not sure how to run the sharks, one unit of 4 or two units of 2?

 

[woolf]

Guys, is there any point in picking the net launcher for the sharks? seems to me harpoon is less swingy and better range so just better?

[Drofnum]

7 hours ago, woolf said:

Guys, is there any point in picking the net launcher for the sharks? seems to me harpoon is less swingy and better range so just better?

The damage averages out the same between the two.  So no reason really with the longer range.

[Paladin of Khorne]

Anybody able to provide a quick and dirty on what makes ‘eels’ so effective in the army at the expense of all other options (like namarti and eidolons and such)?

[Maddpainting]

Well outside of the double movement, fly, and re-roll charges, their save is 4+ vs 5+ and 12 wounds vs 10wounds, sure its 40pts more, but well worth it just in that regards.

There are some situations that 20 Thralls will outdamage the Eels, but with a unit of 9 eels they can do ALL their damage without needing to worry about getting there, dying before they get there, needing to worry about bubble wrap do to fly and MW bomb before pile ins. 

Eidolons at their points is now the cost of 6 eels, which will do more than an Eidolon, but the Eidolon can get a Relic, can be 2+ re-roll 1 saves, has a damage aura, etc.. He is now (at the new price) more competitive, but still not an S tier pick.