AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[Acid_Nine]

@tripchimeras

 

good writeup! I have been thinking about an all defensive king instead of the half and half thing I have been doing, but I don’t know. I would have to play around with it more if I ever decide to do more defensive. I think that maybe giving him rageblade, and possibly the command trait that lets him re-roll 1’s to wound would be fun to try also, just to be as Killy as possible on the charge. I really gotta play around with it, but I get games once in a blue moon as it is!

[frostfire]

Planning to have deepkin as my next army. Love the eidolon, is he good in games?

[Nerdkingdan]

6 hours ago, frostfire said:

Planning to have deepkin as my next army. Love the eidolon, is he good in games?

Are you wanting do tournaments?    No too many points, not enough damage or survivability.

Is he good as in playable in local pick up games with people of varied skills?  Yes, enough damage and survivability to play games with.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Nerdkingdan

[tripchimeras]

Dumb question I can never remember answer to, but us being listed as allies in Cities goes both ways right, or would a faq need to add them to our list as well for us to take them as allies?

If answer is yes as would make sense, anyone else thinking about Phoenix Guard as strong ally choice going forward?  If I get a positive answer on them being legal, going to bring 20 to a game tonight against DoK.  Just a casual game with a friend so want to bring at least a few weird things, though we play rough tourney lists most of time, so can't go too light.  Thinking of riffing on that MSU eel list that won facehammer GT.  Something like:

Volt
Soulscryer with cloud of midnight
1x6 morrsarr
3x3 morrsarr
1x3 ishlaen guard
1x2 sharks
2x10 or 1x20 Phoenix Guard

If I was going full competitive obviously the sharks would get kicked to the curb for more morrsarr units, but for a casual game gotta bring something fun, and the doubles tourney I brought them to got me hooked on them despite their flaws.  If PG not legal, will add back a 4th morrsarr msu unit and probably add 2 units of heartrenders instead, but I will not be nearly as excited haha (though may end up being better competitively)

Edited October 23, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Cactus97]

I'm very interested in Deepkin and their lore along with the beautiful models but I am not a big fan of the eels. So I made this list, is this list any good? Im not looking for anything super competetive just something that is somewhat effective. 

1x Isharann Soulrender

1x Volturnos

1x Isharann Tidecaster

1x Lotann

20x Thrall

20x Thrall

6x Akhelian Guard

1x Akhelian Leviadon

10x Reavers

10x Reavers

[tripchimeras]

1 hour ago, Cactus97 said:

I'm very interested in Deepkin and their lore along with the beautiful models but I am not a big fan of the eels. So I made this list, is this list any good? Im not looking for anything super competetive just something that is somewhat effective. 

1x Isharann Soulrender

1x Volturnos

1x Isharann Tidecaster

1x Lotann

20x Thrall

20x Thrall

6x Akhelian Guard

1x Akhelian Leviadon

10x Reavers

10x Reavers

Are you paying for the namarti batallion?  Since you meet all of the requirements it is worth doing if you are not already.  Aside from that I will give you some general army advice, but please know that since you are playing mostly casual, don't feel like you need to change your list until you have given it a chance.  In a casualy environment you very well may do fine as is, and aesthetics/lore/how much fun you have are literally all that matter.

That being said, Lotann is largely considered the weakest unit in the book, but his model is cool and he is cheap so if you are in love with model or lore on him, he won't break you in casual play.  Generally speaking large units of thralls can have a hard time of it because they have 32mm bases but only 1inch range.  This means units larger then 10 have a difficult time coming anywhere close to maximizing their attack frontage, and given that they are glass cannons that is not a great thing a lot of the time.  Leviadon, especially in casual play are probably good enough, and Akhelian Guard are certainly their optimal synergy partner, and I can see using them to block up the enemies stuff until your ASF phase then coming in with Thralls to do the killing being a relatively successful strat in casual play.  But just know that he is generally considered overcosted for a unit that is primarily a support piece with too few attacks to be a consistent combat killer.

Without knowing more about your gaming group, what armies you normally play against etc, I don't want to tell you to change your list or that you really need to do X Y or Z thing.  However, if you start playing with this list and find yourself losing too often, or feeling underwhelmed, the general rule of thumb is more eels = more competitive.  Morrsarr Guard are by far the strongest unit in our entire book, and the more of them you include, generally the better.  There are exceptions to this and obviously support units and infantry you may want in even a competitive list, but as you get going I would use that as your general rule of thumb.  If you want to scale your army up to a more competitive opponent, add more Morrsarr.

EDIT I just noticed you specifically stated you hate eels, the one idea that might work in casual is, if you find yourself lacking that speedy punch Morrsarr give you, and your opponents aren't taking crazy competitive lists, blocks of sharks (which are amazing models unlike eels) may do the trick.  You have to be very careful as losing a 120pt models to a battleshock tests can be brutal, so you would want to keep them by characters to auto pass battleshock, but their combat ability while less efficient then morrsarr is not actually THAT much worse, so in a casual game may do the trick.

Edited October 25, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Kaime]

On 10/23/2019 at 4:56 PM, tripchimeras said:

Dumb question I can never remember answer to, but us being listed as allies in Cities goes both ways right, or would a faq need to add them to our list as well for us to take them as allies?

It does not go both ways, there would have to be an errata for Idoneth to be able to take phoenix guard.

[tripchimeras]

4 hours ago, Kaime said:

It does not go both ways, there would have to be an errata for Idoneth to be able to take phoenix guard.

I was worried that was answer; unfortunate.  Think it would have been a really strong combo for us.  Strange that no one can use cities as allies, though I guess all of their sub-faction keywords are already in allied lists so that would be why.  Its just especially unfortunate as our only cheap infantry choice (Eternal Guard) are no longer cheap...  I guess our good ally slots are down to just heartrenders...  It was nice having a sub 90pt option though.  Not that PG were cheap, but they at least have extreme durability which we lack, the cheap bodies that were Eternal Guard filled the same void (taking 2 units of 10 for 10pts more then 1 namarti unit was a pretty great option).  Oh well.  Still enjoying the MSU builds, almost took down a DoK Marathi build the other night

[Overread]

Honestly Cities doesn't appear in any Battletomes so it would likely be something that needs an errata update from GW to work for the rest of Order. It stands to reason too - when those Tomes were written cities wasn't a thing. 

[tripchimeras]

12 minutes ago, Overread said:

Honestly Cities doesn't appear in any Battletomes so it would likely be something that needs an errata update from GW to work for the rest of Order. It stands to reason too - when those Tomes were written cities wasn't a thing. 

This is the reason I asked.  It seems dumb that simply because Cities is a new book no one can take them as allies...  And since GW is so bad at faqs, its not like they would ever release faq updates for every army allied to Cities to include that clause in a timely manner upon release.  Guess best we can hope for is something in the EoY updates or next GHB (or at that point maybe a new book for us).

Edited October 28, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Acid_Nine]

so what are your guy's thoughts about squads of 6 morrsarr versus min squads of morrsarr? I tried out a game yesterday against the Ogor mawtribes to see how squads of 3 would do. (my opponent was weird in using some battletome rules that had been given to us by warhammer community and using the new warscrolls, but old points and old squad build. it was a pain in the ass in all honesty with him  using some rules and he made it a point of "imagine if I had full rules!" after I won. )

the 2 squads of 3 morrsarr won me the 1000pt game, I still don't know how I feel about running small squads. They obviously don't pack the same kind of punch that a squad of 6 does, and they are less survivable than a squad of 6. plus, outside of high tide you have to think about who's going first a whole lot more, because you're splitting up activations across two units.

[Drofnum]

I dont think its a question of a unit 6 Morrsarr or units of 3, you take both if you're going to do MSU.  You need to have something you can point at a unit and know you're going to remove it from play, which is why you keep the unit of 6 in there.  If you want to do MSU then you run 2-3 units of 3 after that.

 

The list that sparked this whole MSU eel thing did exactly that, Volturnos, 6 eels, 3/3/3/3 eels.

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, Drofnum said:

I dont think its a question of a unit 6 Morrsarr or units of 3, you take both if you're going to do MSU.  You need to have something you can point at a unit and know you're going to remove it from play, which is why you keep the unit of 6 in there.  If you want to do MSU then you run 2-3 units of 3 after that.

 

The list that sparked this whole MSU eel thing did exactly that, Volturnos, 6 eels, 3/3/3/3 eels.

So something like this is how it should be?

 

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
 - Mortal Realm: Ghur
 - Enclave: Dhom-Hain
LEADERS
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Command Trait : Born From Agony 
- Artefact : Rageblade 

Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Artefact : Rune of the Surging Tide 
- Lore of the Deeps : Arcane Corrasion

Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Lore of the Deeps : Abyssal Darkness

UNITS
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (120)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (340)

BEHEMOTHS
Akhelian Leviadon (350)

BATTALIONS
Akhelian Corps (100)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Quicksilver Swords (30)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1

WOUNDS: 113
LEADERS: 3/6

BATTLELINES: 5 (3+)

BEHEMOTHS: 1/4

ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 

[tripchimeras]

23 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

So something like this is how it should be?

 

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
 - Mortal Realm: Ghur
 - Enclave: Dhom-Hain
LEADERS
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Command Trait : Born From Agony 
- Artefact : Rageblade 

Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Artefact : Rune of the Surging Tide 
- Lore of the Deeps : Arcane Corrasion

Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Lore of the Deeps : Abyssal Darkness

UNITS
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (120)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (170)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (340)

BEHEMOTHS
Akhelian Leviadon (350)

BATTALIONS
Akhelian Corps (100)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Quicksilver Swords (30)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1

WOUNDS: 113
LEADERS: 3/6

BATTLELINES: 5 (3+)

BEHEMOTHS: 1/4

ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 

From a fun perspective seems like a cool and fun list. 

From a purely competitive standpoint I don't know if there is much of a reason to take 2 tidecasters and the endless spell (or even 1 for that matter).  Might be better off taking a soulscryer, "upgrading" king to volturnos and carrying in an extra command point for your attack spam turn 3.  MSU eels seem like one of the times where you really want to use your king as a support bubble you want surviving to turn 3 and Volt does that role better then king.  But again as far as fun list that will compete in a semi-comp environment seems cool.

 

EDIT Reason for my preference towards less to no tidecasters in a build like this being, fliptide is not an option, our spells are not particularly effective, the teleport ability is guaranteed and better then anything our spells can accomplish, and against any army that is bringing a caster heavy build 2 completely unbuffed unbinds are not going to do a ton.

Edited October 29, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Drofnum]

So the list that won Facehammer and started most of the MSU talk is this.

Enclave: Dhom-Hain

LEADERS
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280) General
Isharann Soulscryer (130) Artefact : Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Soulscryer (130)
Black Ark Fleetmaster (40)

Allies 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)

UNITS
3 xAkhelian IshlaenGuard(140)
6 xAkhelianMorrsarGuard (340)
3 xAkhelianMorrsarrGuard (170)
3 xAkhelianMorrsarrGuard (170)
3 x AkhelianMorrsarrGuard (170)
3 x AkhelianMorrsarrGuard170)
3 x AkhelianMorrsarGuard170)
TOTAL: 2000/2000

 

You could obviously move some things around but Volturnos and at least 1 scryer would be must haves IMO. 2 scryers would be ideal for flanking and charge buffs to make sure the eels get where they need to be.  I dont personally like that many eels and would probably take some Thralls in place of a unit or two, but he has won Facehammer and I havent so I may not know anything.

[Acid_Nine]

2 hours ago, tripchimeras said:

From a fun perspective seems like a cool and fun list. 

From a purely competitive standpoint I don't know if there is much of a reason to take 2 tidecasters and the endless spell (or even 1 for that matter).  Might be better off taking a soulscryer, "upgrading" king to volturnos and carrying in an extra command point for your attack spam turn 3.  MSU eels seem like one of the times where you really want to use your king as a support bubble you want surviving to turn 3 and Volt does that role better then king.  But again as far as fun list that will compete in a semi-comp environment seems cool.

 

EDIT Reason for my preference towards less to no tidecasters in a build like this being, fliptide is not an option, our spells are not particularly effective, the teleport ability is guaranteed and better then anything our spells can accomplish, and against any army that is bringing a caster heavy build 2 completely unbuffed unbinds are not going to do a ton.

Honestly I have been finding the tide casters to be vital parts of my list, and I'm a bit surprised that they are so looked down upon in a support role. Arcane corrosion is a really good damage spell I found, and even if you cannot really choose the target when is throwing 3 to 4 mortal wounds outside of unbind range a bad thing? I agree the second tidecaster and endless spell may be a bit much, but those are just the models I had lying around for this list (may pick up a soulscryer later just to try it out. it would be very simple to change the points out on this after all.)

 

I've been thinking about using either the rune of surging tide on the arcane sniper, or using the bauble of bouyancy on the other tide caster and having him run around with the short ranged spells to support my ishlean guard. I may have to play around with it more, though, and right now games are scarce.

I admit though, the bubble is a pretty huge on volturnos instead of the king. to be honest I never had the chance to fully use the high-tide command ability, and I have been using the re-roll 1's for saves instead of banking them when the need arises. 

 

but, thanks for the opinion! I will look into my list more as I play it.

[tripchimeras]

21 hours ago, Drofnum said:

SYou could obviously move some things around but Volturnos and at least 1 scryer would be must haves IMO. 2 scryers would be ideal for flanking and charge buffs to make sure the eels get where they need to be.  I dont personally like that many eels and would probably take some Thralls in place of a unit or two, but he has won Facehammer and I havent so I may not know anything.

I honestly agree with you on the infantry front.  I think they are useful for objective holders and I think you can sacrifice 1 soulscryer and a unit or 2 of eels to make it happen.  That's kinda where I was going with the list I posted other day when I was hopeful we could use PG allies (though the sharks obviously would get replaced with eels in a full comp list).  I think having some bodies on the table is always useful, durable ones would be preferable, but in the absense of that even fragile bodies like namarti can support eels a lot.  They often get ignored in favour of the greater eel threat allowing them to claim objectives, also as always the more screaners the better, and they make good screens to protect an eel unit so they can charge next turn.  But like you said he won facehammer so obviously his list is not shabby at all and maybe the extra eel volume is better plain and simple.  Regardless def agree that I think Volt + 1 scryer is the baseline to make the msu eels lists really fly (sorry couldn't help myself!).

[Drofnum]

I just hate having 1 unit be 80% of the list.  I was really hoping the GHB would help with our internal balance but it hasnt really done anything at all.

[tripchimeras]

2 hours ago, Drofnum said:

I just hate having 1 unit be 80% of the list.  I was really hoping the GHB would help with our internal balance but it hasnt really done anything at all.

Its a problem of utility more then it is one of pts I think.  We simply do not have access to the magic, shooting, or durability to build a competitive list that does not rely primarily upon speed, manoeuvrability, and raw hitting power.  This forces our battle plan emphasis on combat and avoidance, and our ASF combat turn in particular given our relative lack of durability.

There are only 2 units in our entire army that are geared towards this type of battleplan.  Morrsarr and Sharks.  Not only are Morrsarr our only real source of mortals, on top of that sharks have a really low attack volume, which make for high variance and hard to predict damage output.  This makes them more difficult to use in a consistently successful manner, despite the raw damage output averages not being hugely worse.  Add to this our horrible leadership and their lower model count, a unit of them is even more vulnerable then the eels to battleshock.  Those 2 inches of move difference also don't help matters considering how much our battle plan relies on movement advantage.  And because they fill the same role, if one is even slightly more efficient then the other there is very little reason to take it.  So even if GW did manage to create a point distribution where sharks were slightly more efficient then eels you would just see the opposite problem, you would just see armies chalk full of Sharks.

Because we don't do anything else better then most of our opponents, we are left needing to rely on our relative advantage in this one area, so even when we do design armies that puts more focus on support pieces (flip tide with 3-4 infantry units) our army still must revolve and function around our use of 18-21 morrsarr.  All of this is to say, I don't think there is an easy points fix for this problem, our units are either too specialized or not specialized enough depending and too many of them are not good enough in their "specialty".  We are supposed to be reliant on magic in the lore, but we have no casting buffs, and a bad spell lore.  Our support units buff the wrong things, and don't go far enough to be useful, and our infantry beaters have 1 inch range and die to a stiff breeze; you can take advantage of them as relatively fast bodies that can pack a wollup on the charge, but you cannot rely on them as an army backbone.  Reavers are great support units, but they are just that, support units.  Points are not going to change these things.  If you decrease a unit with inferior rules' points enough it becomes takeable only in that you have hit a point of critical mass where spamming that thing becomes your best strategy, but the underlying book imbalances are a form of function not cost.  Morrsarr at 200pts are still going to be the unit which our strat revolves around, our army will just be worse. 

The solution is in validating our bad units with purpose, and pt changes won't give them that purpose, they will only continue to be mostly bad until they are too good.   We need a viable alternative to how we win games in order to not need Morrsarr competitively, unfortunately that requires rule rewrites (and honestly more units).  That is something that we are going to have to just wait and hope for in a new book.  The reason we are in this position is mostly just because we were a new tome with limited units and our book is getting old.  We weren't even technically released in 2.0 we were the pre 2.0 book with prototype 2.0 rules.  We have survived in the competitive tier to this point off the backs of 1 unit, and without that unit we would have been relegated to the "desperately needs an update" bin a while ago.

Edited October 30, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Nerdkingdan]

3 hours ago, tripchimeras said:

Its a problem of utility more then it is one of pts I think.  We simply do not have access to the magic, shooting, or durability to build a competitive list that does not rely primarily upon speed, manoeuvrability, and raw hitting power.  This forces our battle plan emphasis on combat and avoidance, and our ASF combat turn in particular given our relative lack of durability.

There are only 2 units in our entire army that are geared towards this type of battleplan.  Morrsarr and Sharks.  Not only are Morrsarr our only real source of mortals, on top of that sharks have a really low attack volume, which make for high variance and hard to predict damage output.  This makes them more difficult to use in a consistently successful manner, despite the raw damage output averages not being hugely worse.  Add to this our horrible leadership and their lower model count, a unit of them is even more vulnerable then the eels to battleshock.  Those 2 inches of move difference also don't help matters considering how much our battle plan relies on movement advantage.  And because they fill the same role, if one is even slightly more efficient then the other there is very little reason to take it.  So even if GW did manage to create a point distribution where sharks were slightly more efficient then eels you would just see the opposite problem, you would just see armies chalk full of Sharks.

Because we don't do anything else better then most of our opponents, we are left needing to rely on our relative advantage in this one area, so even when we do design armies that puts more focus on support pieces (flip tide with 3-4 infantry units) our army still must revolve and function around our use of 18-21 morrsarr.  All of this is to say, I don't think there is an easy points fix for this problem, our units are either too specialized or not specialized enough depending and too many of them are not good enough in their "specialty".  We are supposed to be reliant on magic in the lore, but we have no casting buffs, and a bad spell lore.  Our support units buff the wrong things, and don't go far enough to be useful, and our infantry beaters have 1 inch range and die to a stiff breeze; you can take advantage of them as relatively fast bodies that can pack a wollup on the charge, but you cannot rely on them as an army backbone.  Reavers are great support units, but they are just that, support units.  Points are not going to change these things.  If you decrease a unit with inferior rules' points enough it becomes takeable only in that you have hit a point of critical mass where spamming that thing becomes your best strategy, but the underlying book imbalances are a form of function not cost.  Morrsarr at 200pts are still going to be the unit which our strat revolves around, our army will just be worse. 

The solution is in validating our bad units with purpose, and pt changes won't give them that purpose, they will only continue to be mostly bad until they are too good.   We need a viable alternative to how we win games in order to not need Morrsarr competitively, unfortunately that requires rule rewrites (and honestly more units).  That is something that we are going to have to just wait and hope for in a new book.  The reason we are in this position is mostly just because we were a new tome with limited units and our book is getting old.  We weren't even technically released in 2.0 we were the pre 2.0 book with prototype 2.0 rules.  We have survived in the competitive tier to this point off the backs of 1 unit, and without that unit we would have been relegated to the "desperately needs an update" bin a while ago.

I own one faction, deepkin, and I have lost interest in actually playing due to this, I either need to force myself to play this as is, or invest into a new army, stormcast is what I’ll do, to limit me being stuck with one flawed faction in the future for too long, also tons of used models with stormcast , bought deepkin new.

I bought everything, 100 namarti, 2 edilons, 30 eels, 4 sharks, etc..   every test game showed, the only thing that works is Morrsarr.    We need a new book, my favorite list was unchanged by the GHB2019,  moved like 20 points, to 1950.   Reduced points on sharks, lets me use them, but it’s not a new play style, change nine eels, to 4 sharks, not really variety.

Yeah I won a small tournament, I did great in pugs, but as they are the only army I own, it has been very disappointing, intro into Sigmar.   Thank warcry for keeping me in the hobby, and underworlds is just an amazing game.    I like the game just regret deepkin as my first choice.

[Drofnum]

It isnt really THAT bad.  Sure you need Morrsarr, but there are plenty of lists out there that do well and have won tournaments with a variety of the other units in lists.  The backbone is always 15+ Morrsarr but you can mix it up with Thralls, Reavers and to some extent Akhelian Corps.  Its not a whole lot different than most armies in the game who have a small unit count.

[Acid_Nine]

I feel at this point it wouldn’t hurt too much to give us an update. There are flaws with the battletome in unit balance as pointed out, and adjusting costs won’t make up for some of it. I agree that the spells are pretty bad as we’ll with the only stand out for me being arcane corrosion. I would have liked some buffing spells on my army, like giving +1 to wound or something.

 

another factor is the king’s Lackluster command abilities. Our ability is useful in one turn, and if we don’t set up for it because we have to deal with objectives then it’s just a waste. I wish we had more buffing abilities like Cities do, giving pluses to hit or conditional extra attacks. Something that isn’t used only once per game.

[Nerdkingdan]

11 hours ago, Drofnum said:

It isnt really THAT bad.  Sure you need Morrsarr, but there are plenty of lists out there that do well and have won tournaments with a variety of the other units in lists.  The backbone is always 15+ Morrsarr but you can mix it up with Thralls, Reavers and to some extent Akhelian Corps.  Its not a whole lot different than most armies in the game who have a small unit count.

THAT bad, is subjective.   For me it’s my only faction, got them when they came out, bought endless spells, looked forward to the point update, sill keep coming back to my 3rd list, game one I did 1000 with eels, shark, turtle, king...   game 2 dropped shark, game 3 moved to 2k dropped turtle and king for a namarti corp and two units of 9 eels for tide Flip.   A list with different artifacts won an event I hear not so long ago, the point is every list since my third game has been, yeah ok that isn’t different, or doesn’t work.   Tried spells, reaver spam, no eels, etc...   they don’t function really, it’s not just that they are inefficient, it’s flawed mechanics.  My friends are bored of fighting eels, I’m bored of playing it, and I regret buying it.

Now had I bought just eels, and used the money spent on Namarti, Eidolons, Turtles, Sharks, endless spell box, Lotan, etc...  to buy a different faction, it really wouldn’t be an issue.   So it’s my fault, I listened to rule of cool people when I got into this game, what I have learned is buy a specific good list, paint it, when you get bored, buy a different faction with a different play style.   

[Acid_Nine]

2 hours ago, Nerdkingdan said:

THAT bad, is subjective.   For me it’s my only faction, got them when they came out, bought endless spells, looked forward to the point update, sill keep coming back to my 3rd list, game one I did 1000 with eels, shark, turtle, king...   game 2 dropped shark, game 3 moved to 2k dropped turtle and king for a namarti corp and two units of 9 eels for tide Flip.   A list with different artifacts won an event I hear not so long ago, the point is every list since my third game has been, yeah ok that isn’t different, or doesn’t work.   Tried spells, reaver spam, no eels, etc...   they don’t function really, it’s not just that they are inefficient, it’s flawed mechanics.  My friends are bored of fighting eels, I’m bored of playing it, and I regret buying it.

Now had I bought just eels, and used the money spent on Namarti, Eidolons, Turtles, Sharks, endless spell box, Lotan, etc...  to buy a different faction, it really wouldn’t be an issue.   So it’s my fault, I listened to rule of cool people when I got into this game, what I have learned is buy a specific good list, paint it, when you get bored, buy a different faction with a different play style.   

yea, for me it was my first full round base army. I have a death and  bloodknight army list that was all on squares (most are still on squares) so starting this army was the first step in getting  fully updated list for the new AoS. I liked this army because of the eels, but now I have all the workings to the list I posted previous and I have no clue where to expand. I want to buy things besides eels, but so far nothing is appealing besides the eidolon and a scryer. It's kinda sad that we dont do so well outside of one unit, but here's hoping we get some new stuff soon.

[Nerdkingdan]

36 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

yea, for me it was my first full round base army. I have a death and  bloodknight army list that was all on squares (most are still on squares) so starting this army was the first step in getting  fully updated list for the new AoS. I liked this army because of the eels, but now I have all the workings to the list I posted previous and I have no clue where to expand. I want to buy things besides eels, but so far nothing is appealing besides the eidolon and a scryer. It's kinda sad that we dont do so well outside of one unit, but here's hoping we get some new stuff soon.

As someone who bought it all, Don’t do what I did.   Buy a 1k in something that can ally with deepkin, or just something that does spells or ranged.   
 

Cities as a ranged or spell cast looks like a good idea, or stormcast which is what I’m leaning to.    Daughters looks to be in a similar boat as deepkin;

Sylvaneth to do wood and sea is tempting, but looks like an ineffective list as wood and sea.   I’d do something that has an underworlds warband, that game is fun.