AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[Maddpainting]

On 9/9/2019 at 3:10 AM, Praecautus said:

He’s an interesting addition, but we give up a lot to take him ~9 eels and feuthan with its rerollls. I  am not sure it’s a decent trade off for most lists.

I think the best way to use him (if trying to) is to put him in the middle of the table turn  if you can within 12" of as many targets as you can, combine with the 2 Boats you can make sure he gets there and does more than 9 eels of damage.

[Chumphammer]

DoK player wanting to do a IDK army to support Gotrek (Just for hard hitting list) as recently I wont the IDK book, box of thralls and the tidecaster

Came up with:

Ionarch
Isharann Tidecaster (General)
Isharann Soulscryer
Isharann Soulrender
10 Namarti Thralls
10 Namarti Thralls
10 Namarti Reavers
6 Arkhelian Morrsaar Guard
6 Arkhelian Morrsaar Guard
Chronomantic cogs
 

[Maddpainting]

Yeah i was thinking of something similar, but i was going to use 2x10 Reavers for the movements to help get to objectives and body block my opponent movements. Also IDK how good 2 Soulscryers are with Gotrek. I also want 2 Tidecasters if i'm getting the +1 to cast.

Tidecaster
Tidecaster
Soulscryer
Morrsarr x6
Morrsarr x6
Reavers x10
Reavers x10
Thralls x10
Gotrek
Cogs
2,000pts

[Acid_Nine]

Hey guys, I recently had to make another tide caster since the archmage's days are numbered. I already have arcane corrosion on one for a spell, and I am planning on using this one as a more close range support unit. I got the bauble of boyancy on it, but I don't know exactly what spell to use.

[Maddpainting]

On 9/14/2019 at 11:42 AM, Acid_Nine said:

Hey guys, I recently had to make another tide caster since the archmage's days are numbered. I already have arcane corrosion on one for a spell, and I am planning on using this one as a more close range support unit. I got the bauble of boyancy on it, but I don't know exactly what spell to use.

I almost always take Steed of Tides, teleporting heroes is so good.

[Acid_Nine]

3 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

I almost always take Steed of Tides, teleporting heroes is so good.

That is a good point, but I never really got it to work too well when playing. Do you think vorpal maelstrom would be good for a more aggressive style?

[Maddpainting]

Its ok, its only 3" so you might get 1-2 units to splash damage, but i dont think we are damaging spell casting army so i dont try to play that way.

[Acid_Nine]

3 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Its ok, its only 3" so you might get 1-2 units to splash damage, but i dont think we are damaging spell casting army so i dont try to play that way.

Fair enough, but I can't imagine an under water army without at least some "Splash" damage 

[Maddpainting]

2 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

Fair enough, but I can't imagine an under water army without at least some "Splash" damage 

Oh you!

[Koradrel of Chrace]

Wanted to give back to the community a bit with my WIP Thralls from the Fuethan Enclave.  Just finished the base coating last night.

[Graftonianman]

Just noticed this tidbit. Anyone use the same spell for all their wizards?

[IneptusAstartes]

That’s it, taking the plunge (har har). Chose Motlynians as my enclave and hoping to run a semi-coherent color/theme for my Order armies and their flesh-eater allies.

Absolutely everything we know about the Motlynians:

1) they live in a coral reef on Ghyran

2) they have garish, gaudy outfits

3) they fight alongside Alarielle’s armies, so they will fit fluffwise with my Sylvaneth

That’s it. That’s all.

My original idea was to properly put the motley in Motlynian and make them the equivalent of 40k harlequins, but that went out the window when I tried doing harlequin checks and failed miserably. After being more or less demoralized by that attempt I tried a quick and dirty test model. Is this a good color scheme? I want it to be garish and reminiscent of coral reefs somehow.

[Acid_Nine]

2 hours ago, IneptusAstartes said:

That’s it, taking the plunge (har har). Chose Motlynians as my enclave and hoping to run a semi-coherent color/theme for my Order armies and their flesh-eater allies.

Absolutely everything we know about the Motlynians:

1) they live in a coral reef on Ghyran

2) they have garish, gaudy outfits

3) they fight alongside Alarielle’s armies, so they will fit fluffwise with my Sylvaneth

That’s it. That’s all.

My original idea was to properly put the motley in Motlynian and make them the equivalent of 40k harlequins, but that went out the window when I tried doing harlequin checks and failed miserably. After being more or less demoralized by that attempt I tried a quick and dirty test model. Is this a good color scheme? I want it to be garish and reminiscent of coral reefs somehow.

it looks good for what you have in mind! I am a bit surprised though, never saw a thrall so colorful before! I like the two split colors of armor, but the fluff-nut in me has to ask why their skin is two different colors.

[IneptusAstartes]

23 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

it looks good for what you have in mind! I am a bit surprised though, never saw a thrall so colorful before! I like the two split colors of armor, but the fluff-nut in me has to ask why their skin is two different colors.

That’s not skin, it’s just a skintight outfit! The head is the only exposed skin on this thrall. I figured coral reef idoneth would a) be exposed to lots of sunlight and thus pale skin would be harmful, and b) the presence of so many stinging polyps would require more extensive protective clothing.

[tripchimeras]

Very happy to see how much success Deepkin have been having lately in tourneys and it looks to have occurred with 2 completely different build.  There's a great facehammer podcast from August discussing the namarti corp list that won an event that month, and then now with the facehammer gt looks like a pretty inventive msu volturnos build list won that one as well. 

I have been trending towards something similar to the namarti corp list myself, though I have always shied away from spending that last bit needed with the soulrender and corp cost.  On the other hand I have always mostly dismissed the king builds as one trick ponies, but for whatever reason (lack of imagination probably) always thought of them within the context of the conventional wisdom/standard net list 6-9 man morrsarr blocks.  But 7 units of msu eels, only one of which is 6 man, seems very different. 

I think msu in general has been on the rise lately, with the necessity of low drop coming under more scrutiny, but I think at least for me the bigger avoidance factor of msu eels was the idea that we need a big beat stick unit.  But seeing that a list like this won, I am definitely realizing that my thinking may have been flawed.  Especially with the extreme speed of such a list, and the fact that on turn 3 all of those 3 man eel units become beetsticks thinking a 9 man is necessary was wrong, but again I have never spent a lot of time looking at king lists to begin with.

I think I am still moving in more of the namarti heavier direction (don't get me wrong still have 18 eels) more in the vein of what the deepkin player on the last facehammer podcast plays, but that facehammer gt list definitely seems really strong.  If I can get myself  to actually retrofit all of those musicians, standards, and champs on my eels, I might even try it in the next tourney I go to... On second thought, that sounds horrifying and painful and there is no way I am doing that haha.  But for others thought I'd bring it up for anyone that missed it.  Think the full list is on AoSShorts.

Edited October 1, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Acid_Nine]

4 hours ago, tripchimeras said:

Very happy to see how much success Deepkin have been having lately in tourneys and it looks to have occurred with 2 completely different build.  There's a great facehammer podcast from August discussing the namarti corp list that won an event that month, and then now with the facehammer gt looks like a pretty inventive msu volturnos build list won that one as well. 

I have been trending towards something similar to the namarti corp list myself, though I have always shied away from spending that last bit needed with the soulrender and corp cost.  On the other hand I have always mostly dismissed the king builds as one trick ponies, but for whatever reason (lack of imagination probably) always thought of them within the context of the conventional wisdom/standard net list 6-9 man morrsarr blocks.  But 7 units of msu eels, only one of which is 6 man, seems very different. 

I think msu in general has been on the rise lately, with the necessity of low drop coming under more scrutiny, but I think at least for me the bigger avoidance factor of msu eels was the idea that we need a big beat stick unit.  But seeing that a list like this won, I am definitely realizing that my thinking may have been flawed.  Especially with the extreme speed of such a list, and the fact that on turn 3 all of those 3 man eel units become beetsticks thinking a 9 man is necessary was wrong, but again I have never spent a lot of time looking at king lists to begin with.

I think I am still moving in more of the namarti heavier direction (don't get me wrong still have 18 eels) more in the vein of what the deepkin player on the last facehammer podcast plays, but that facehammer gt list definitely seems really strong.  If I can get myself  to actually retrofit all of those musicians, standards, and champs on my eels, I might even try it in the next tourney I go to... On second thought, that sounds horrifying and painful and there is no way I am doing that haha.  But for others thought I'd bring it up for anyone that missed it.  Think the full list is on AoSShorts.

got any sauce for this fish-fry in tourneys?

[robbobobo]

11 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

got any sauce for this fish-fry in tourneys?

Ask and you shall receive 😃

Facehammer 2019. Scroll down a bit to see it.

Enclave: Dhom-Hain

LEADERS
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280) General
Isharann Soulscryer (130) Artefact : Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Soulscryer (130)
Black Ark Fleetmaster (40)

Allies 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (90)

UNITS
3 xAkhelian IshlaenGuard(140)
6 xAkhelianMorrsarGuard (340)
3 xAkhelianMorrsarrGuard (170)
3 xAkhelianMorrsarrGuard (170)
3 x AkhelianMorrsarrGuard (170)
3 x AkhelianMorrsarrGuard170)
3 x AkhelianMorrsarGuard170)
TOTAL: 2000/2000

 

There are a lot of small zaps to soften single targets and is less susceptible to being corner tagged, rendering a big 9-man Morrsarr Guard without a strong charge bonus. The list seems to be able to take board control and have smaller counter punches.

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by robbobobo
Added source.

[tripchimeras]

 

14 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

got any sauce for this fish-fry in tourneys?

Looks like @robbobobo has you covered on facehammer GT list, the blackout GT list I never actually saw, so I am not perfectly clear on artefacts (though he mentioned Cloud of Midnight was one, but didn't specify character), but based on the podcast I can be confident that the rest was:

Enclave: Fuethan
Battalions: Namarti Corps

Leaders
Tidecaster (General)
Soulscryer
SoulRender

Battleline
2x 10 reavers
2x 10 thralls

Other
2x 9 Morrsarr

 

3 hours ago, robbobobo said:

😃

 

There are a lot of small zaps to soften single targets and is less susceptible to being corner tagged, rendering a big 9-man Morrsarr Guard without a strong charge bonus. The list seems to be able to take board control and have smaller counter punches.

 

Yeah, thought the same. and given the board control ability, likelihood of significant portion of army still being alive turn 3 I think increases, and once you get there, if Volt is still alive all of a sudden you can replicate the effect of being hit with a 9 man Morrsarr unit pretty easily.  Definitely seems very strong, as the tourney results obviously indicate.  I do wonder how he would manage to handle a slaanesh list, but I guess that is more of a problem for all our lists rather then just this one... lol

Edited October 2, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Acid_Nine]

Oh man, he’s playing Dhom-hain as well! A man after my own heart!

 

that is a whole lot of eels, and I can see how that can just overpower something. Almost makes me wish I split up my guys into smaller 3 man squads for my akhelian core, but that can be remedied by some conversions I think. I think that list really avoids a lot of the fears I would have against charging... I like it though, thanks! Never would have heard about it otherwise!

 

finally set up another game this Saturday against a tourney player, so I hope I do well with my own eel list! It’s not as crazy, but I think it could do some work?

[Acid_Nine]

Whoops, would have helped if I posted my list:

-Polearm Akhelian King - General, Ghyrnstrike

-TideCaster-  arcane corrosion

-Tidecaster- bauble of bouyancy, Vorpal Malestrom

=Akhelian Corps battalion=

-Leviadon

-Alopex w/ harpoon launcher

-ishlaen guard x3

-ishlaen guard x3

-Morsarr Guard x6

-Morsarr Guard x6

Endless spell- quicksilver swords 

 

I could try to split my guys up into squads of 3 instead of 6, but I would need to convert some guys before I do that which, a couple weeks away from Armies on parade, just wont happen yet.

[tripchimeras]

dupe post delete

Edited October 17, 2019 by tripchimeras

[tripchimeras]

dupe post delete

Edited October 17, 2019 by tripchimeras

[tripchimeras]

Came in first at a fun doubles event the other day where I took my deepkin and my partner took nurgle.  I did not gain all that many insights into our singles list building from it, but it was a lot of fun and thought I'd share some of the fun moments with my fellow deepkin.  Super obvious take away of the day:putting massed bodies that are tough as nails to kill in a screen in front of a bunch of eels, results in exactly what you would think it does...

First 2 games were pretty straight forward + matchups for us where there wasn't a ton our opponents could do baring lots of luck or mistakes on our part, though the games were fun anyways (it was mostly a casual tourney where everyone were trying to take a bit of ridiculousness).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              First was a skaven + nighthaunts teammup  on starstrike; that was a lot of fun.  Moment of the match where my partner was worried about a unit of 20 skryer acolites, backed up by the skryer character, with me committing my big block of eels elsewhere.  "No worries friend, baby eels on the way".  Both he and my opponent were doubtful that I could kill the whole unit before they fled down the gnarhole they were sitting on reappearing behind us.  I, however, was quite confident, and sure enough exactly 20 unsaved wounds later there was much rejoicing and anguish depending on who you were.

Second round we played Khorne + Tzeench, with Skarbrand on scorched earth, which pretty much forced them to push with khorne stuff.  SKarbrand forced to commit into 30 plague bearers, doing  something insane like 26 mortals + whatever other combat damage, yet 5 still survived.  Plague bearers flee, and I charge in with eels, and that was pretty much beginning of end.  It was a bad matchup for them, and on top of that we had the luck in the game.  It was basically just a giant string of combats at the center of table, and scarbrand combat  with eels allowed maurauders to get behind their lines to start burning objectives.

Our last round where it was the only 2 lists that had full objective points was the really really cool one though. We played a legions of grief + FEC pairing, and ofcourse the FEC player had the king on gheist combo...   It was honestly the one and only list at the tourney (12-14 teams) that I think had a + matchup against us and we honestly should have lost. The entire game my big unit of eels and his terrorgheist were basically engaged in a multi turn stare down contest where they each just kinda sat just out of charge range of the other and waited.  We both knew whoever got the charge would likely kill or cripple the other.  We were playing the orb scenario and that, I think, was our only saving grace.  Because it is so waited towards steeling objective from our opponent, we won each of the first 3 priority rolls and each and every time gave priority to our opponents, doing just enough in our phase to steal the objective from them, and then once the objective moved disallowing them from stealing from us, we did the same thing all over again.  Even with all that luck, we were still likely going to lose, but turn 3 they finally committed the gheist, and it looked like they were going to be able to lock up the eels in the process, but through a series of pile in shenanigans that included my partner breaking coherency on a unit of 30 plague bearers (losing 10) I was able to jailbreak them for a turn 3 charge with all of the accompanied extra attacks from my king.  Gheist of course torched them back on death frenzy, but with what was left on the table our objective advantage was too much to overcome. (EDIT: I should also mention time was a contributing factor here, and last 2 turns had to basically be talked through.  So if we had full time for game, maybe they would have still found a way to win last 2 turns, as we were basically just theory hammering it as it was a casual event).

For me the most exciting thing was that I finally got to bring my 2 sharks to an event.  I had a blast with these guys, whether it was the complete ineptitude of their shooting, that brought joy to everyone around the table, or their surprisingly strong combats that were nearly on par at times with the eels.  I think they are definitely better then I give them credit for, but they just aren't as good as eels, so I will still likely never field them competitively.

My list was:

King

6 eels

3 eels

2 sharks (in 1 unit)

My partner's list (aproximation don't have it in front of me):

30 plague bearers

20 plague bearers

40 maurauders

2 caster characters (1 had the wand thing that doles out bubbled reroll 6's to hit or wound to enemies)

Edited October 17, 2019 by tripchimeras

[Acid_Nine]

Congratulations on the win @tripchimeras! Got to have some really good screens with your opponent, and had the chance to steal their souls when they died! It’s a win win in my opinion! (Just remember to pasteurize  those nurgle souls before feeding them to the Namarti)

 

I spent some time reading through the relics in the tome and core book again and i’m Absolutely stuck with what to give my king. So far I have played my polearm king with Gyrstrike and born from agony, but he never ‘wowed’ me. I am trying to decide what would be the best choice in relics.

 

so far I have had four other choices of relics for the king

1: terrornight venom from core book (re-roll 1’s to wound and -1 bravery)

2:  rageblade (add 1 extra attack)

3: sanguine pearl (5+ ward save in melee) 

4: abyssal blade (extra -1 rend, put on a great sword instead)

 

[tripchimeras]

8 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

Congratulations on the win @tripchimeras! Got to have some really good screens with your opponent, and had the chance to steal their souls when they died! It’s a win win in my opinion! (Just remember to pasteurize  those nurgle souls before feeding them to the Namarti)

 

I spent some time reading through the relics in the tome and core book again and i’m Absolutely stuck with what to give my king. So far I have played my polearm king with Gyrstrike and born from agony, but he never ‘wowed’ me. I am trying to decide what would be the best choice in relics.

 

so far I have had four other choices of relics for the king

1: terrornight venom from core book (re-roll 1’s to wound and -1 bravery)

2:  rageblade (add 1 extra attack)

3: sanguine pearl (5+ ward save in melee) 

4: abyssal blade (extra -1 rend, put on a great sword instead)

 

Forgot to include my loadout, but it was exactly the same as your go to, Gyrstrike and born from agony.  It's not particularly exciting, but it helps extend his survivability to get into some of the more important rounds, and gyrstrike pretty much guarantees 2 polearm attacks get through with a good shot at all 3 going.  Guaranteeing 6 wounds on the charge against most things is pretty important as I often find myself using him to dash towards lightly defended objectives in the backfield, or as a non-monstrous character hunter.  Nothing is more disheartening then getting him into a 5-10 man objective defense force and only killing like 2 models...  Can't imagine not putting born from agony on him either if he is general, because getting him to turn 3 is obviously super important. 

I feel like a case could certainly be made to make him fully defensive, and put one of the warding artefacts on him (Ignax's Scales seems like potentially a good choice, because for me he is almost always getting killed by mortals when he does dies), but as far as offensive output goes, as boring as it may be Gyrstrike is pound for pound the best offensive realm artifact in the game unless your character is already hitting on 2+'s.  Rageblade would maybe be the runner up?  I think depending on how you are using your list a case could also be made for Ankusha Spur or Thermalrider cloak, 17-18 inch movement is absolutely nothing to joke about, particularly if you are depending on him for his various bubbles, though if you are primarily using him in that role Vulternos is probably going to be the choice so... idk

I just always keep ending up back at born from agony and gyrstrike when I take him as general, which admittedly is not particularly often, though lately I have been choosing him or volt more often the more I notice turn 2 ASF not being as necessary as I used to think and often creating a "trap" scenario that encourages rapid engagement when more and more often I am finding that is not what we want to do (particularly against top tier lists).  I still think tidecaster general gives you more flexibility and encourages you to take a good amount of reavers which is definitely a good thing, but I find far too often I do not have the self control to use fliptide judiciously, and taking the king instead forces my hand to play more conservatively.  I've been thinking to use him as training wheels lately.  Especially later on in a tourney, when I am starting to get tired it is so easy to over-endulge in early game shenanigans with fliptide.  Hoping that using King or volt and generally wanting to play avoidance for first couple of turns trains me to less often use kneejerk aggression early on in my fliptide lists haha.