AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[Acid_Nine]

8 hours ago, IneptusAstartes said:

Shame that the sharks with frickin’ harpoon-launchers on their back are a mere bravery 6... the worst thing would be losing several 120-point allopexes to battleshock.

Yea, they need to be baby-sat by a hero with enough cp's to spend on inspiring presence. The akhelian core does give a chance to roll battle shock, but you need them within 12" of the turtle to do so.

[Siorra]

If you somehow find you've made a list with exactly 120 points spare I don't see the shark being a bad choice, if only to get up front and soak some shooting. They have their use for sure.

[Leonhart040]

I've tested the 1000 point list I posted some days ago and it worked pretty well. I maintained the 3 man Ishlaen guard unit to have some more board control, and against sylvaneth and squigs won 2 of 3 games.

Now I'm thinking on expanding it to 1500 or 2000 points, but from here I don't know what to use. I've seen lists with eternal guard for screening, some with Eidolon and some with even more morsarr guard or bigger units. 

As I don't intend to play fully competitive, I'd like to have a bit of everything, maybe some more magic. What about reivers, are they so weak as they seem? Is the eidolon worth the points? 

[Nerdkingdan]

1 hour ago, Leonhart040 said:

I've tested the 1000 point list I posted some days ago and it worked pretty well. I maintained the 3 man Ishlaen guard unit to have some more board control, and against sylvaneth and squigs won 2 of 3 games.

Now I'm thinking on expanding it to 1500 or 2000 points, but from here I don't know what to use. I've seen lists with eternal guard for screening, some with Eidolon and some with even more morsarr guard or bigger units. 

As I don't intend to play fully competitive, I'd like to have a bit of everything, maybe some more magic. What about reivers, are they so weak as they seem? Is the eidolon worth the points? 

I am a big fan of Reavers, in a 10 man unit, for shooting, speed, body count, and battle line in a tide flip list.   I have more success with Reavers than I do thralls most games due to flexibility, speed.    They both die pretty quick.

If you try warcry you will want them as well.

 

[Tyrion_Juanka]

I have a tournament in two weeks and today I have to deliver the army list, but I have many doubts, I had thought the following:

Volturnos

Tidecaster with the 5+ charm when using command point you retrieve it

Ally Drycha

3 Morssar
3 Morssar
6 Ishalen
6 Ishalen

Leviadon

It would be Fuethan faction

I do not have more eels so it is not an option to put more, but I can choose another combination of them (more morssar for example)

any advice? I have 30 Thralls, 10 archers, 1 High king, 3 allopexes and Eidolon ...

[whispersofblood]

I'm actually 

5 hours ago, Tyrion_Juanka said:

I have a tournament in two weeks and today I have to deliver the army list, but I have many doubts, I had thought the following:

Volturnos

Tidecaster with the 5+ charm when using command point you retrieve it

Ally Drycha

3 Morssar
3 Morssar
6 Ishalen
6 Ishalen

Leviadon

It would be Fuethan faction

I do not have more eels so it is not an option to put more, but I can choose another combination of them (more morssar for example)

any advice? I have 30 Thralls, 10 archers, 1 High king, 3 allopexes and Eidolon ...

I'm actually doing some early theory on multiple kings, penumbral engines and some prosecutors.

[markymarkka]

Anyone have any idea about James Tinsdale's winning list from Blackout IV? I have been struggling with Deepkin listbuilding in AOS2.

[undeadheadz]

In the akhelian guard command group can the standard bearer also be the musician because i cant find anything saying they have to be two seperate models

[whispersofblood]

21 hours ago, Cullen rothery said:

In the akhelian guard command group can the standard bearer also be the musician because i cant find anything saying they have to be two seperate models

The rules are permissive so you would need to find something that says a model can be more than one type of command model. Worst case ask your local TO or gaming group what they think since it will be them that you would need to appease. 

[Maddpainting]

I was trying to look at the rules for it in the BRB and it doesnt go into much detail (never know till you look) i also looked into the battletome too, there isn't any clear rules on if hey can or can not, i would email the faq team.

But also that got me thinking (as its next to the mount rules) the Mount rules are also not clear at all, i have been using the Eels and the Turtle themselves (not the riders) as a mount, no one has questioned it, but going by RAW there is no rules for our units having "mounts" as they dont have the keyword, but just like the command group dont have any rules either (besides they have weapons also).

Some of the rules are very RAI it seems.

[undeadheadz]

1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

I was trying to look at the rules for it in the BRB and it doesnt go into much detail (never know till you look) i also looked into the battletome too, there isn't any clear rules on if hey can or can not, i would email the faq team.

But also that got me thinking (as its next to the mount rules) the Mount rules are also not clear at all, i have been using the Eels and the Turtle themselves (not the riders) as a mount, no one has questioned it, but going by RAW there is no rules for our units having "mounts" as they dont have the keyword, but just like the command group dont have any rules either (besides they have weapons also).

Some of the rules are very RAI it seems.

Ive been classing the turtle as a monster and not a mount but eels and sharks have been used as mounts with fuethan because i dont see how anyone could argue that they arent mounts.

With the banner bearer and musician ill ping an email over as its not like they have  banner in one hand and horn in the other so i dont see why it cant be the same model ill let ye know if i get an answer

 

 

[Maddpainting]

6 hours ago, Cullen rothery said:

Ive been classing the turtle as a monster and not a mount but eels and sharks have been used as mounts with fuethan because i dont see how anyone could argue that they arent mounts.

With the banner bearer and musician ill ping an email over as its not like they have  banner in one hand and horn in the other so i dont see why it cant be the same model ill let ye know if i get an answer

 

 

Thats my point, there is no rules that says what is a mount and what isnt, the turtle has 5 guys on it, how is that not a mount? The shark is also a monster, why is that a mount then?

On another note, the Shark being a monster is one of the main reasons i dont like it, it cant get cover.

[undeadheadz]

5 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Thats my point, there is no rules that says what is a mount and what isnt, the turtle has 5 guys on it, how is that not a mount? The shark is also a monster, why is that a mount then?

On another note, the Shark being a monster is one of the main reasons i dont like it, it cant get 

Dunno never noticed the monster keyword on the shark 😕

its a bit small compared to most monsters so i never thought to look for it

[Maddpainting]

4 minutes ago, Cullen rothery said:

Dunno never noticed the monster keyword on the shark 😕

its a bit small compared to most monsters so i never thought to look for it

Yep, idk why it has it, completely ruins it for me as i always play with the turtle and some spells only effect monsters, and b.c some many of the good units are monsters some players takes those spells (mostly to counter HoS and Fec). And like i said, you cant get cover (monster 8 wounds).

I asked GW (when they made that announcement to email them ideas for points/rules changes a year ago) to make the Shark 120pts and remove the Monster keyword.

[undeadheadz]

I supose you can get around the ruled by screening with king or volturnos and putting him in front as they benefit from cover to save on a 2+

[undeadheadz]

20 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Yep, idk why it has it, completely ruins it for me as i always play with the turtle and some spells only effect monsters, and b.c some many of the good units are monsters some players takes those spells (mostly to counter HoS and Fec). And like i said, you cant get cover (monster 8 wounds).

I asked GW (when they made that announcement to email them ideas for points/rules changes a year ago) to make the Shark 120pts and remove the Monster keyword.

Did you get any reply to email?

[Maddpainting]

1 minute ago, Cullen rothery said:

Did you get any reply to email?

Just the normal "thanks for your input" i wrote about 3 pages for IDK tho. I went into heavy details on averages of other armies for points and how the rules effect us, etc.. i didn't just say "I think this so please do this" b.c they ask not to do that. I gave very good reasons with examples, i gave pros and cons, etc...

My main points tho was

Shark, -20pts, remove monster keyword
Eidolons -60pts each
Morrsarr +10pts
Turtle -80pts
Lotan/Soulrender -20pts
Thralls/Reavers -10pts
Royal Council cheaper or free ability 

[undeadheadz]

21 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Just the normal "thanks for your input" i wrote about 3 pages for IDK tho. I went into heavy details on averages of other armies for points and how the rules effect us, etc.. i didn't just say "I think this so please do this" b.c they ask not to do that. I gave very good reasons with examples, i gave pros and cons, etc...

My main points tho was

Shark, -20pts, remove monster keyword
Eidolons -60pts each
Morrsarr +10pts
Turtle -80pts
Lotan/Soulrender -20pts
Thralls/Reavers -10pts
Royal Council cheaper or free ability 

You managed to get a few of them though which is pretty good

[Maddpainting]

Yeah but the Soulscryer going up and the Eidolons/Turtle not as low as they needed, it still an Eel fest with a splash of Namarti time to time. They should have just said the Soulscryer cant stack with other Soulscryers....

[Jaidean]

I apologize if this has been answered earlier in the thread.

What is the consensus on Akhelian King versus Volturnos?

 

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, Jaidean said:

I apologize if this has been answered earlier in the thread.

What is the consensus on Akhelian King versus Volturnos?

 

I found king to be more versatile than Volturnos personally. I do play Dhom-Hain though so a smaller re-roll bubble is not as big of an issue.  he's good, and can rip apart guys on the charge if your opponent doesn't roll well. my favorite set up is Glaive and giving him Ghyranstrike to hit and wound on a 2+, and I give him the born from agony to keep him around a bit longer.

pretty much you could build him for damage or for durability, and most games I do not make it to turn 3 for the high tide thing so that isn't a big issue either (Either I am winning so hard or losing so hard)

Edited August 29, 2019 by Acid_Nine

[Maddpainting]

3 hours ago, Jaidean said:

I apologize if this has been answered earlier in the thread.

What is the consensus on Akhelian King versus Volturnos?

 

King is more of a melee beast and Volturnos is more of a army support melee character

[Maddpainting]

Gotrek + Tide + Cogs = a wonderful time!

[Acid_Nine]

it's nice to think we can make Him the fastest dwarf alive on turn 2 with Ironrach (or whatever it's called).

 

he gets the tides, he gets to run and charge turn 2, and as combined with cogs like you said it would be fun!

I only hope he's not a limited time release! I got warcry to buy!

 

[Praecautus]

He’s an interesting addition, but we give up a lot to take him ~9 eels and feuthan with its rerollls. I  am not sure it’s a decent trade off for most lists.