AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[DanielFM]

11 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

I think maybe get rid of the ishlaen guard and split up the thralls into two squads? spitballing here for it, but maybe you can get some allies to replace the ishlean, like maybe some of those daughters of khaine snaeks?

I agree the Ishlaen must go. Then, the decision to split the Morrsar or Thralls is difficult: the big unit of Morrsar is better with the Lord of Tides, but part of the quirk of the list is dropping 20 Thralls + Reavers + Eidolon -two thrall units don't help with that.

Good thing with allies is that I can:

A) field an Allopex as a count-as Scourgerunner Chariot and get to use the cool models with pretty unimpressive rules (but cheap points)

B) field 5 Heartrenders, which don't fit a lot the theme of my army but have super cool rules.

[Shinzra]

Hello and good evening everyone,

Recently started a Idoneth Deepkin force and currently played a couple of 1k games with a friend today, looking to expand to 2k and aiming to be pretty competitive. Would appreciate any feedback and advice on the following list..pretty new to sigmar in general and deepkin so not fully sure on what is considered the competitive options.

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Idoneth Deepkin) ++

+ Leader +

Akhelian King: General - Akhelian

Eidolon: Aspect of the Sea

Isharann Soulscryer

+ Battleline +

Akhelian Ishlaen Guard: 2x 3 Ishlaen Guard

Akhelian Morrsarr Guard: 2x 3 Morrsarr Guard, Akhelian Guard Command Group

Akhelian Morrsarr Guard: 2x 3 Morrsarr Guard, Akhelian Guard Command Group

Namarti Thralls: 2x 10 Namarti Thralls, Icon Bearer

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Idoneth Deepkin: Forgotten Nightmares, Fuethán, Isharann Rituals, Tides of Death

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

[Greasygeek]

Hi all

This young fellow(age 14) I know is about to start a 1000pt deepkin army. Usually I would be his go to guy to help build a list that looks cool and plays pretty smooth. A list that can win games despite not being tournement worthy. But thing is, I have never faced the Deepkins on the battlefield so I know nothing about them except for some vague rumours. So what should he build and why? Please you experienced fishhandlers, lend me your assistance. 

Info we play in a community where matched play and narratives go hand in hand. We go competitive too but the rule of cool seem to prevail for the most of times, which of course IMO also puts tournements out of the question.

[Mike Burgess]

36 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Hi all

This young fellow(age 14) I know is about to start a 1000pt deepkin army. Usually I would be his go to guy to help build a list that looks cool and plays pretty smooth. A list that can win games despite not being tournement worthy. But thing is, I have never faced the Deepkins on the battlefield so I know nothing about them except for some vague rumours. So what should he build and why? Please you experienced fishhandlers, lend me your assistance. 

Info we play in a community where matched play and narratives go hand in hand. We go competitive too but the rule of cool seem to prevail for the most of times, which of course IMO also puts tournements out of the question.

Hi there,

If you want a list that looks cool you are in safe hands with Idoneth Deepkin, the entire range looks incredible! One of the great things about this army is that almost all of the warscrolls can be put into a list and are solid. Of course there are a few stand out choices (Morrsarr eels) but it is one of the few armies where you could select your warscrolls at random and still end up with a reasonable army.

I have tried to write you a couple of lists, but without trying to sound cliche I would recommend what ever models your friend likes the look of. Some people love the turtle, others love the eidolons etc.

The first list has a nice mixture of models, the 2nd list is what I think a strongly competitive 1k list would look like. But I do think there are quite a few other options.

 

Enclave: Mor’Phann

Akhelian King (240) - General, Merciless Raider, Cloud of Midnight 

Isharann Soulrender (100)

10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Total: 1000

 

Enclave: Dhom-Hain

Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280) - General

Isharann Soulscryer (100) - Dritchleech

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

Total: 1000

[Greasygeek]

8 hours ago, Mike Burgess said:

Hi there,

If you want a list that looks cool you are in safe hands with Idoneth Deepkin, the entire range looks incredible! One of the great things about this army is that almost all of the warscrolls can be put into a list and are solid. Of course there are a few stand out choices (Morrsarr eels) but it is one of the few armies where you could select your warscrolls at random and still end up with a reasonable army.

I have tried to write you a couple of lists, but without trying to sound cliche I would recommend what ever models your friend likes the look of. Some people love the turtle, others love the eidolons etc.

The first list has a nice mixture of models, the 2nd list is what I think a strongly competitive 1k list would look like. But I do think there are quite a few other options.

 

Enclave: Mor’Phann

Akhelian King (240) - General, Merciless Raider, Cloud of Midnight 

Isharann Soulrender (100)

10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Total: 1000

 

Enclave: Dhom-Hain

Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280) - General

Isharann Soulscryer (100) - Dritchleech

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

Total: 1000

Thanks mate, much appreciated. One last question. How difficult is the deepkins to control compared to other armies if you a bit new to the game.

Examples:

kharadron: having lots of weapon options in each unit and sky port stuff too.

tzeentch: lots of spells and summoning points to keep control of.

khorne/stormcast: move forward slash/shoot opponents.

not trying to step on anyones toes here, this just my humble opinion based on experience learning teenagers to play.

[Acid_Nine]

8 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Thanks mate, much appreciated. One last question. How difficult is the deepkins to control compared to other armies if you a bit new to the game.

Examples:

kharadron: having lots of weapon options in each unit and sky port stuff too.

tzeentch: lots of spells and summoning points to keep control of.

khorne/stormcast: move forward slash/shoot opponents.

not trying to step on anyones toes here, this just my humble opinion based on experience learning teenagers to play.

as I guy who went from an all soul blight army to an idoneth army, there is some things I gotta get used to for the idoneth (at least at 1,000 points) involving positioning, setting up charges and the balance between being really agressive and somewhat passive (I.E, learning when to go forward and when to wait for my opponent to make a move) and if you are going all akhelian then you have to keep objectives in mind too...

 

but other than that they are great!

[Mike Burgess]

I would say they are middle of the pack for complexity. The army has a separate army wide mechanic every turn of the game. There are quite a few buffs eg auras for re-rolls, bonuses when charging, different damage profiles depending on the number of wounds you are fighting, command abilities that only work on specific turns of the game etc. 

I would also say if you forget some of these rules while playing you should still get a decent performance out of them.

You could tailor your list to have less special rules, the first list I outlined is good for this, the turtle is a big pointed model with only one simple special rule. 

[DanielFM]

On 2/2/2019 at 4:26 PM, DanielFM said:

...

However, mine is a bit unorthodox as I will go Briomdar and put the Reavers, chunky Thrall block and Aspect of the Sea in the enemy's face. Tsunami of Terror + Tide of Fear to ruin someone's day. Not-optimal but I want something to spice us up (beside the tried and tested Reverse Fuethan).

...

I know something similar could be done with Steed of Tides and a different Enclave, but I would lose a spell. Plus, this gives me flexibility in case I decide to ambush other units depending on the opponent.

I'm so dumb, I can't believe it. Infiltrating the Aspect of the Sea with the Soulscryer is basically useless, he appears in the movement phase so he can't cast that turn.

So, Steed of Tides it is. 

I'm no longer sure if Briomdar is worth it for that list. 

-If I keep Briomdar, I can split the Thralls in 2x10 and still infiltrate them plus Reavers (and have the 6 Morrsar together). I could also inflitrate Reavers +20 Thralls +Leviadon for the shock factor.

-Ionrach would give me the free +1 to cast for the Aspect of the Sea (and Steed Tidecaster)

I'm not interested in the other Enclaves for different reasons, they basically don't fit with my idea for the list.

This is the updated list (I can change the Tidecaster for 5 Khinerai Heartrenders and a 20 points Endless spell):

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Briomdar
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Trait: Born From Agony 
- Artefact: Cloud of Midnight 
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
- Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides
20 x Namarti Thralls (280)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

Yes, I know noone cares about my ramblings 😂

[Acid_Nine]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:48 PM, DanielFM said:

I'm so dumb, I can't believe it. Infiltrating the Aspect of the Sea with the Soulscryer is basically useless, he appears in the movement phase so he can't cast that turn.

So, Steed of Tides it is. 

I'm no longer sure if Briomdar is worth it for that list. 

-If I keep Briomdar, I can split the Thralls in 2x10 and still infiltrate them plus Reavers (and have the 6 Morrsar together). I could also inflitrate Reavers +20 Thralls +Leviadon for the shock factor.

-Ionrach would give me the free +1 to cast for the Aspect of the Sea (and Steed Tidecaster)

I'm not interested in the other Enclaves for different reasons, they basically don't fit with my idea for the list.

This is the updated list (I can change the Tidecaster for 5 Khinerai Heartrenders and a 20 points Endless spell):

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Briomdar
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Trait: Born From Agony 
- Artefact: Cloud of Midnight 
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
- Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides
20 x Namarti Thralls (280)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

Yes, I know noone cares about my ramblings 😂

I think that is a fun list! Looks like it has enough magic to throw around, still has some punch and the eidolon looks like it could provide some good support! Have you thought about bringing realm artifacts instead of the book ones though? like the gyranstrike on the king or eidolon?

[DanielFM]

35 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

I think that is a fun list! Looks like it has enough magic to throw around, still has some punch and the eidolon looks like it could provide some good support! Have you thought about bringing realm artifacts instead of the book ones though? like the gyranstrike on the king or eidolon?

There are good realm artifacts, some are great! But the Cloud of Midnight brings so much utility it's a must.

Shooty opponent? Run the Akhelian king in front of your army and pop the Cloud. Whole shooting phase wasted (thanks FAQ!). Power magic? Pop it in the hero phase and he is immune.

You don't even have to waste its close combat potential by using it in the combat phase, even if you can in case of emergency.

I'm still torn between Briomdar and Ionrach, and between 2x10 Thralls and 6 eels or 20 Thralls or 2x3 eels. Every choice has a high cost. Aaargh!

[Deepkin]

So despite the name, haven't played Deepkin yet. Wanna play a competitive list: where to start?

[DantePQ]

6 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

So despite the name, haven't played Deepkin yet. Wanna play a competitive list: where to start?

2x10 Thralls, Tidecaster, 2xSoulscryer, 10 Reavers and Aspect of the Storm + 9,6 Morssar or 9,9,6 Morssar 

[Axter]

Hi all guys, i do not play this army but one of my friends does and we have a doubt.

The Akhelian King command ability "Lord of Tides" can be used more then once per turn? If it does, can be used on the same unit?

Thanks for help!

[HollowHills]

16 minutes ago, Axter said:

Hi all guys, i do not play this army but one of my friends does and we have a doubt.

The Akhelian King command ability "Lord of Tides" can be used more then once per turn? If it does, can be used on the same unit?

Thanks for help!

Yes and yes. 

[Deepkin]

46 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

2x10 Thralls, Tidecaster, 2xSoulscryer, 10 Reavers and Aspect of the Storm + 9,6 Morssar or 9,9,6 Morssar 

Are Akhelian Kings/Volturnos not competitive? Why reavers? I have heard they are bad.

[DantePQ]

10 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

Are Akhelian Kings/Volturnos not competitive? Why reavers? I have heard they are bad.

Akhelian King/Volturnos are competitive but Fuethan-Reverse Tide Tidecaster armies are better comeptitive-wise. 

Reavers are quite good, they are doing a lot of small, important things like grabbing/guarding objectives

[Deepkin]

If I wanted to do King/Volturnos build, what would I do? I like the model for the king a lot and if I can play with that and be competitive, I'd like to.

 

Thanks for the help so far!

[DantePQ]

2 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

If I wanted to do King/Volturnos build, what would I do? I like the model for the king a lot and if I can play with that and be competitive, I'd like to.

 

Thanks for the help so far!

I've played some games with Volturnos + 2xScoulScryer + Aspect of the Storm + 9,6,6 Morssars 

[Axter]

1 hour ago, HollowHills said:

Yes and yes. 

Thank you very much!

[Drofnum]

2 hours ago, Deepkin said:

If I wanted to do King/Volturnos build, what would I do? I like the model for the king a lot and if I can play with that and be competitive, I'd like to.

 

Thanks for the help so far!

The king is definitely competitive, the top lists for Idoneth at LVO all have a King +eel core.  None are running the tidecaster general that i've seen and two of those lists are in the top 8 for the event.

 

The basics of a King list are going to be the king, Soulscryer or two, 9+ Morrsarr and some Thralls.  

[Deepkin]

So whats the general gameplan with em then? Do i play conservatively until high tide? Do i commit the King/Volty to melee, or keep him back for buffs? Is the Eidolon of the Storm good?

[Drofnum]

I tend to play fairly aggressive with mine, my list isnt really the super competitive list though as I include an Eidolon of the Sea.  I am usually in combat first turn but I try to keep the King/Volturnos safe for turn 3 to use his command points.  I like bringing a big unit of Morrsarr out of the sea as well, keeps them protected until you bring them on. There is a game up on Frontline Gamings twitch of the LVO finals with Deepkin vs Stormcast, it would give you a pretty good idea of how to play that kind of list.

[Deepkin]

cool, thanks man!

[DanielFM]

14 hours ago, Drofnum said:

I tend to play fairly aggressive with mine, my list isnt really the super competitive list though as I include an Eidolon of the Sea.  I am usually in combat first turn but I try to keep the King/Volturnos safe for turn 3 to use his command points.  I like bringing a big unit of Morrsarr out of the sea as well, keeps them protected until you bring them on. There is a game up on Frontline Gamings twitch of the LVO finals with Deepkin vs Stormcast, it would give you a pretty good idea of how to play that kind of list.

I thought keeping a big Morrsar unit+King on ambush was a good idea to have them intact before the charge. Then I realized the command ability is used in the hero phase (if it's not specified it's like that by default, by FAQ), so you can't come up turn 3 and buff the Morrsar. This tactic is a lot worse if they must spend a turn on the table before charging.

[Drofnum]

Yeah, you dont keep them off til High Tide, you have to bring them on before that.

If you bring them on the turn before high tide you generally want them to wipe whatever unit they get in to.  If they dont you still have high tide going for you and they will attack first in that phase no matter what.  Its not a big deal for them to spend one turn on the table if you position decently.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Drofnum