AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[N_Watson]

I understand what is being said. I just disagree. I would take more Thralls over ishlean currently. That's why I'm looking to got to 40 rather than 30 + 3 ishlean for the same points. 

MSU Thralls are great right now. 

[whispersofblood]

49 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

I understand what is being said. I just disagree. I would take more Thralls over ishlean currently. That's why I'm looking to got to 40 rather than 30 + 3 ishlean for the same points. 

MSU Thralls are great right now. 

In most regards the comparison is mute because you can't.

Of my 30 namarti I would drop 10 for 3 Ishlaen. If only so I could play my eidolon more aggressively. Since the strategy is still primarily one of decapitation strikes. 

I think Thralls need a 3rd stance if neither of the conditions are met, probably a -1 to be hit by melee weapons of models with2 and 3 wound, or alternatively buff all Namarti with +2 MV, or a 6+ shrug from isharaen models that boats buff with +1. 

Without turn 2 high tide I don't think msu Namarti are actually playable. Especially given the poor quality of Namarti Corps, and the soulrender's lurelight. Say what you want about the allopex but at least it does what it says it does, namely DMG. The Soulrender is a broken warscroll, with no ability to do what it was intended to do. 

[wanderingrogue]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

In most regards the comparison is mute because you can't.

Of my 30 namarti I would drop 10 for 3 Ishlaen. If only so I could play my eidolon more aggressively. Since the strategy is still primarily one of decapitation strikes. 

I think Thralls need a 3rd stance if neither of the conditions are met, probably a -1 to be hit by melee weapons of models with2 and 3 wound, or alternatively buff all Namarti with +2 MV, or a 6+ shrug from isharaen models that boats buff with +1. 

Without turn 2 high tide I don't think msu Namarti are actually playable. Especially given the poor quality of Namarti Corps, and the soulrender's lurelight. Say what you want about the allopex but at least it does what it says it does, namely DMG. The Soulrender is a broken warscroll, with no ability to do what it was intended to do. 

i cant get behind any comment that doesnt think thralls are the best thing in that tome

[wanderingrogue]

23 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Not really Les Martin had great results with Volturnos list so your point is just false. 

And my Thralls lists I mean Thralls focused lists not some Thralls that fill up Battleline in Fuethan lists as they are very hand and crucial but those lists are Morssar heavy alpha strikes. 

unfortunately les hasnt got very good results with said list - okay ones, but not very good.  James tinsdale and myself always go 3 units of thralls minimum and constantly get top tens with it.  The guy that won the scottish masters... had 3 thrall units.

 

And they are not make weights, just cos feuthan is the powerhouse. i was taking them when i ran dhom hain too. They are your screens in a pinch, you chaff cleaners, objective holders and tool kit units.

To put it simply:

 

If you want consistent results with deepkin, your army needs both morssar and namarti. Everything else, im sorry, just isnt optimal (if thats the thing you care about)

 

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by wanderingrogue

[N_Watson]

3 minutes ago, wanderingrogue said:

unfortunately les hasnt got very good results with said list - okay ones, but not very good.  James tinsdale and myself always go 3 units of thralls minimum and constantly get top tens with it.  The guy that won the scottish masters... had 3 thrall units.

To put it simply:

 

If you want consistent results with deepkin, your army needs both morssar and namarti. Everything else, im sorry, just isnt optimal (if thats the thing you care about)

 

 

Pretty much this. And it was me who won the Northern masters. Thralls are awesomesauce 😂

And I'm taking Les' list to a tournament in two weeks, because it's still a great list. Fancy a change up. 

[wanderingrogue]

10 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

Pretty much this. And it was me who won the Northern masters. Thralls are awesomesauce 😂

And I'm taking Les' list to a tournament in two weeks, because it's still a great list. Fancy a change up. 

yea its got to the point i need to change it up too.

running nammarti corp monday:

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Fuethan
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- General
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
- Artefact: Rune of the Surging Tide 
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Isharann Soulrender (100)
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak 
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
Namarti Corps (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
 

 

50 namarti - and i think it could take a tournament. 

[Mike Burgess]

Any thoughts or advice on this list?

Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280) General

Isharann Soulscryer (100)

Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (400) Sword of Judgement 

20 x Namarti Thralls (280)

20 x Namarti Thralls (280)

6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000

[DantePQ]

@wanderingrogueI am not disputing that Thralls are good and crucial to Fuethan list as I know they are but calling 6th place at Balckout a good but not very good results is just wrong especially  considering that other Deepkin lists results in biggest tournaments (no Top3 finishes) . By that logic not a single ID list is getting very good results in big tournaments. 

It's up to each player preference if I could I would take 3x3 Ishlaen Guard in Fuethan Reverse Tide list but it's impossible so Thralls and Reavers are good and are crucial. 

It's my opinion that there isn't enough  mechanics to support Thralls heavy oriented lists to be consistent in competitive play. Sure I could be proven wrong and I'd be happy to be wrong about this. 

[wanderingrogue]

7 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

@wanderingrogueI am not disputing that Thralls are good and crucial to Fuethan list as I know they are but calling 6th place at Balckout a good but not very good results is just wrong especially  considering that other Deepkin lists results in biggest tournaments (no Top3 finishes) . By that logic not a single ID list is getting very good results in big tournaments. 

It's up to each player preference if I could I would take 3x3 Ishlaen Guard in Fuethan Reverse Tide list but it's impossible so Thralls and Reavers are good and are crucial. 

It's my opinion that there isn't enough  mechanics to support Thralls heavy oriented lists to be consistent in competitive play. Sure I could be proven wrong and I'd be happy to be wrong about this. 

results.. plural - a single result alas doesnt make it optimal.

maybe check james tinsdale on rankings for a better idea, because they deffo have topped 3'd

 

 

but fair enough,. ill take the corps to heat one  

Edited January 8, 2019 by wanderingrogue

[DantePQ]

I know that James Tinsdale has amazing results and more consistent then any other Deepkin player but I only brought up Les to show that you can have good results without Thralls. And it's good that there are different lists 

And good luck with your lists at Heat 1.

maybe we will meet at battlefield as I am taking my Daughters of Khaine to Heat 1 

[Luke1705]

8 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I know that James Tinsdale has amazing results and more consistent then any other Deepkin player but I only brought up Les to show that you can have good results without Thralls. And it's good that there are different lists 

And good luck with your lists at Heat 1.

maybe we will meet at battlefield as I am taking my Daughters of Khaine to Heat 1 

Aw you’re selling out and taking the elves? Boo! (Jokingly but also a little sad. Would have liked to see how that Fuethan list does, as I assume that’s what you would have taken)

To be fair though, I get it. If I went to an event that I wanted to place as highly as possible at, I’d be taking Tzeentch enlightened + skyfires with kairos’ fold reality. Maybe even my nurgle Archaon list over the eels. But in all honesty, I haven’t had as much experience with the eels as I would like.

[DantePQ]

11 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Aw you’re selling out and taking the elves? Boo! (Jokingly but also a little sad. Would have liked to see how that Fuethan list does, as I assume that’s what you would have taken)

To be fair though, I get it. If I went to an event that I wanted to place as highly as possible at, I’d be taking Tzeentch enlightened + skyfires with kairos’ fold reality. Maybe even my nurgle Archaon list over the eels. But in all honesty, I haven’t had as much experience with the eels as I would like.

It's more about logistics as Deepkin are pain to transport especially by plane and DoK were good to transport as I ve already taken them to Throne of Skulls Europe. Also I've been playing with DoK since they had been released year ago so I got a lot of experience with them(I played like 200+ games with them) and I am probably taking my beloved Snakes Army. Also I need to get Namarti painted. 

I don't think Deepkin are far behind DoK in terms of competitive play but they are surely harder to master. If I figure out how to transport them(usually I transport them in magnetized boxes but those won't fit into baggage) I may very well take Fuethan list. 

[Djoblo]

Did someone have some experience with only Flying fish list blast ?
Like this one : 

Quote

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Dhom-Hain

Leaders
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280)
- General
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Archmage (100)
- Mount: Steed
- Allies

Battleline
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
- Allies

Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 180 / 400
Wounds: 123

Should I replace turtle by Aspect? even if i lose the fishy theme?

 

[Luke1705]

7 hours ago, DantePQ said:

It's more about logistics as Deepkin are pain to transport especially by plane and DoK were good to transport as I ve already taken them to Throne of Skulls Europe. Also I've been playing with DoK since they had been released year ago so I got a lot of experience with them(I played like 200+ games with them) and I am probably taking my beloved Snakes Army. Also I need to get Namarti painted. 

I don't think Deepkin are far behind DoK in terms of competitive play but they are surely harder to master. If I figure out how to transport them(usually I transport them in magnetized boxes but those won't fit into baggage) I may very well take Fuethan list. 

Transporting that army is definitely something to consider. Thankfully, I’m still assembling the bases and the pieces I’m going to use to connect the eels long term. Agree that strong magnets all around is likely the way to go.

I do think you’re right that the deepkin can run with Morathi, Nagash and friends. I also just need to practice more to feel more confident about bringing the fish people to larger events

[Acid_Nine]

So I played my third game with my deepkin army and I really gotta say that I am loving these fishy boys so far.  they are limited enough to not feel super overpowered, but still strong enough to win games. Played against a pre-battletome moonclan army and holy poop those guys are fairly brutal even without the new rules about to hit. Getting through the nets are going to be tough when there is three nets per 20, each with a 2 inch range... It can really mess up your planned charge.  the mortal wounds a boss can give out is annoying but didnt come out too much.  The fanatics are absolutely scary, and I am happy I only really had to face one squad, as my king wiped out a squad of 3 out on the charge out of pure luck with his deepmare horn.

bad dice saw my planned turn 2 morrsarr charge was stunted (seriously, I got 10 hits even with a -1, and I failed 6 wounds. pain in the dorsal fin.) and my electroshock surprise failed when I missed the enemy boss with a serious zapping.  my king was the star though, and I think I'm happy I chose to play him compared to volturnous if only because of a relic. taking ghrynstrike on his lance is just amazing, and can rip and tear so much!

Just a thought I had, though. Do you guys think that an archmage on horse would be better for us compared to a tidecaster?

Edited January 10, 2019 by Acid_Nine

[Djoblo]

2 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

Just a thought I had, though. Do you guys think that an archmage on horse would be better for us compared to a tidecaster?

It would be easier to tell by seeing your list. Tidecaster is fantastic for optimised charges and reversing tides. Archmage is a real improve for idoneth weakness and he is a fast character on steed.  In my last list I take both, but I often thinking about changing one or an other for another ishlean group.

Quote

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Dhom-Hain

Leaders
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep(280)
- General
Archmage (100)
- Mount: Steed
- Allies

Battleline
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
- Allies

Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 180 / 400
Wounds: 116
 

 

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, Djoblo said:

It would be easier to tell by seeing your list. Tidecaster is fantastic for optimised charges and reversing tides. Archmage is a real improve for idoneth weakness and he is a fast character on steed.  In my last list I take both, but I often thinking about changing one or an other for another ishlean group.

 

Fair enough. as for now my list is a mostly eel 1000 point list.

1 king as general w/ ghrynstrike and born from agony (have to have, as I got no thralls) 

1 tidecaster 

x6 morrsarr guard

x3 ishleann guard

x1 alopex (which isn't as bad as I first thought, though I think I would prefer more ishleann

endless spell: umbral spell portals, but may replace it with a vortex.

 

What I would like to do is to replace the tidecaster for an archmage if possible, and use the endless spell for either an extra command point or maybe some cheap allies (such as birbs) to keep the list fast and punchy. So far, the tide caster didnt do too much during both games, but that may be just because of my spell usage. I may have to find better targets, such as fanatics that already had popped out, or a warboss that has yet to swing. the umbrall spell portals would have been good, but it takes too long to set up in my oppinion...

[DanielFM]

Hi, I'm a new Deepkin player (well, mostly just the owner of a ID battleforce ).

I wanted to know your opinion on one matter: is the Soulrender worth it without Mor'phann and/or Namarti Corps? I like the concept and model, and I would like to use Thralls and Reavers (MSU or not). But in a Fuethan Reverse Tide list (which I would favour) only 1d3 casualties and mediocre CaC punch don't seem like a lot for 100 points.

[Akhelian-Snail]

Hey everyone, just finished my second battle with my fishes against a nighthaunt army. Unfortunately i lost, due to a lot of reasons, most my own. First starting off set up we read the battle plan for shifting objective wrong so we wound up seeing up 36" away from each other. And i certainly chose the wrong spell and artifacts for my tidecaster and soulrender.

Turn 1 nighthaunt teleported onto the main objective, brought 20 main unit of buffed bladegheists and charged into volturnos and my leviadon. Almost killed volturnos and leviadon. Managed to pile in allopexes and those 3 took out the unit. And thats basically how this whole match went.

Turn 2 i got to obective 1 but couldn't take him off the objective. Also lost the leviadon to second 30 man wave of grimghast. I captured objective 3 with eels, he got the objective 2.

Turn 3 spammed volturnos command ability. Took objective 1 with allopexes killing grimghast, and eels killing his hero there. Lost one unit of eels on third objective to 12 buffed myrmourn banshees. Failed the charge with thralls and 30 shots with reavers into those banshees turned into 4 successful wounds and they saved all 4.

Turn 4 lost another unit of eels on objective 1 to buffed chainrasp and hero combo. Volturnos tried taking objective 2, he got the charge, failed the 2+ mortal wound. Then failed every hit even with re-rolls. Banshees on objective 3 charged my reavers got to fight immediately killed that unit of 10, then got to pile in and killed my unit of 10 thralls. Volturnos finally died to the hero on objective 2.

Turn 5 Allopexes killed the unit of chainrasps tried to charge the hero on objective 2 but failed. Soulrender and tidecaster died to the myrmourn banshees.

So quick digest of the battle allopexes were the MVF (most valuable fishes) doing the majority of damage for the whole battle. Other errors i forgot the gloomtide shipwreck ranges a couple of times. Changes to be made (especially against nighthaunt), changing the spell for my tidecaster from abyssal darkness to arcane corrosion, change todecaster artifact from talisman of the watchers to... right now I'm thinking either kraken tooth or rock jaws from ghur (open to suggestion) change soulrender artifact from brain barnacles to maybe mind flare.

 

 

Sea world.pdf

[Acid_Nine]

57 minutes ago, Akhelian-Snail said:

Hey everyone, just finished my second battle with my fishes against a nighthaunt army. Unfortunately i lost, due to a lot of reasons, most my own. First starting off set up we read the battle plan for shifting objective wrong so we wound up seeing up 36" away from each other. And i certainly chose the wrong spell and artifacts for my tidecaster and soulrender.

Turn 1 nighthaunt teleported onto the main objective, brought 20 main unit of buffed bladegheists and charged into volturnos and my leviadon. Almost killed volturnos and leviadon. Managed to pile in allopexes and those 3 took out the unit. And thats basically how this whole match went.

Turn 2 i got to obective 1 but couldn't take him off the objective. Also lost the leviadon to second 30 man wave of grimghast. I captured objective 3 with eels, he got the objective 2.

Turn 3 spammed volturnos command ability. Took objective 1 with allopexes killing grimghast, and eels killing his hero there. Lost one unit of eels on third objective to 12 buffed myrmourn banshees. Failed the charge with thralls and 30 shots with reavers into those banshees turned into 4 successful wounds and they saved all 4.

Turn 4 lost another unit of eels on objective 1 to buffed chainrasp and hero combo. Volturnos tried taking objective 2, he got the charge, failed the 2+ mortal wound. Then failed every hit even with re-rolls. Banshees on objective 3 charged my reavers got to fight immediately killed that unit of 10, then got to pile in and killed my unit of 10 thralls. Volturnos finally died to the hero on objective 2.

Turn 5 Allopexes killed the unit of chainrasps tried to charge the hero on objective 2 but failed. Soulrender and tidecaster died to the myrmourn banshees.

So quick digest of the battle allopexes were the MVF (most valuable fishes) doing the majority of damage for the whole battle. Other errors i forgot the gloomtide shipwreck ranges a couple of times. Changes to be made (especially against nighthaunt), changing the spell for my tidecaster from abyssal darkness to arcane corrosion, change todecaster artifact from talisman of the watchers to... right now I'm thinking either kraken tooth or rock jaws from ghur (open to suggestion) change soulrender artifact from brain barnacles to maybe mind flare.

 

 

Sea world.pdf

just remember to keep on swimming and try again! Nighthaunt is a tough army... May I suggest a bit more bubble wrapping? since it looks like you have shieelds rather than spear eels the y could have gone up front? don't really need the charge when you ignore rend and got cover?

[Akhelian-Snail]

Yea that was my other big mistake was deployment! Next game i will focus more on bubble wrapping. And Nighthaunt is a difficult army. I didn't realize how much i relied on rend to get some attacks through, and how cheap their units are.

On side note if my tidecaster wiffs again on all her spells and prayers she is going to be named Dory!

[Akhelian-Snail]

Just keep scrolling

Edited January 10, 2019 by Akhelian-Snail
Duplicate reply

[Akhelian-Snail]

8 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Hi, I'm a new Deepkin player (well, mostly just the owner of a ID battleforce ).

I wanted to know your opinion on one matter: is the Soulrender worth it without Mor'phann and/or Namarti Corps? I like the concept and model, and I would like to use Thralls and Reavers (MSU or not). But in a Fuethan Reverse Tide list (which I would favour) only 1d3 casualties and mediocre CaC punch don't seem like a lot for 100 points.

Hey fellow Tadpole!

As of right now I'm not too impressed with any of the Isharann heros. But the Soulrender is my favorite fighting wise because he seems the one that can actually swing a bit!

[Joseph Mackay]

Allopex and Leviadon, what do people think of them, why are the sharks rarely seen?

[Akhelian-Snail]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Allopex and Leviadon, what do people think of them, why are the sharks rarely seen?

I really enjoy the Leviadon. Its a great support piece that does decent damage. Me personally i enjoy the sharks too. I have a 3 shark unit ive brought to all (both) games I've played with deepkin and they have been my main damage dealing unit, (as they should be). But the reason i think a lot of people dislike them is because they don't really do anything special but do damage, their only ability is they reroll charges if any enemy within 12" has taken a wound. They don't get cover because they are monsters with 8 wounds. And points cost you can bring another unit of just about anything that does "do" more, be that with mortal wounds, shielding, or just bubble wrapping with chaff namarati. Or in my case i could drop my whole 3 man unit and bring an eidolon to change how my whole list runs.