AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[woolf]

Well I suppose these Underworlds warbands typically always sux.. so at least ours comes with a stylish mascot 😂

[GrimDork]

1 hour ago, LordRhulak said:

Problem is he is locked into Ionrach, so he won't gain the extra resurection from Morphann.

Yeah, I just meant using the model as an alternative to the usual soulrender, just to add some variety

[LordRhulak]

Ah, that makes sense. That's actually a really good idea. I might have to do that. 

[Molkaice]

So with a smaller board size (44" x 60") and our new book in the eventual future will IDK keep their high movement advantage? I mean this will be a huge boost to shooting, but turn one charging on a board that size is even easier for IDK.

[LordRhulak]

From what I've seen, deepkin are going to be loving AoS 3 (assuming similar level of rules come the new battletome). Coherency doesn't effect us (though RIP namarti) and it will  be easier to deepstrike with the soulscryer. The Leviadon and Eidolon will benefit lots from their respective bonusses as well. MSU eels are going to be great.

 

[Incineroar87]

Will Deepkin still be able to field lots of eels with Coherency? Guessing we have to take MSU eels and sharks which most seemed to be doing anyway. 

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

Will Deepkin still be able to field lots of eels with Coherency? Guessing we have to take MSU eels and sharks which most seemed to be doing anyway. 

oh jeez, getting 10 eels in coherency will we a chore XD

[Molkaice]

Is it me or does the new coherency rule pretty much make hordes almost impossible to work with?  I mean elite armies will thrive with this but any 10 man unit cant' pile in without losing models.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Coherency rules also made our bad battleline Thralls literally unplayable. 1" attacks on a 32" base and keeping all models w/in 1" of 2 other units screws our second rank "stagger" significantly! I sincerely hope they get 2" range in the next battletome! 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

[Molkaice]

we lost the square bases and regimented combat from fantasy...and now they have created rules to bring that structure right back in lol.

Weapon ranges have to increase or just live with fielding smaller units, on a smaller board so you don't have units sitting and doing nothing.

[Baron Klatz]

Haha, it's less they created the rules for that outcome and more just ported it over from 40k due to wanting smaller unit focus. Blocks won't mean diddly once the casualties & battleshock mount and hordes are being capped and crippled all over. it's MSU or bust.

Which is fine for the finest fish cavalry in all the seas of the realms.

Namarti are the obvious sore spot. Either they'll bring in something like 40k's second rank so the whole unit can fight or they'll tuna up the warscrolls so they're just deadlier fighters at 5 which seems to be the goal. Something like the Stormcast's "Blaze of Glory" for a army-wide buff would help too like maybe now they can feast on fallen souls to heal.

 

[DocKeule]

Well what does everybody think so far?

The coherency won't bother me at all. I have not run unit larger than three with my IDK for ages. The only thing is that this rule will make it even more unlikely for me to use the Namarti I own let alone buying any more. Any ideas to go infantry-heavy are nixed.

The changes in army composition won't have too effect either. Main thing is that I was planning on buying four more sharks and run 2x3. Since sharks will be only reinforced once we will only be able to run them in pairs of two. Sp depending point changes I will probably run 3x2. With the warscroll battalions likely not being usable in matched play I will be able to field an additional Ishlaen Guard or something along these lines. Also I am still planning on buying a second turtle with the new improvements for monsters.

The new rules regarding command points will effect us quite a bit. No saving of command points for upcoming round and every unit just being able to profit from one command ability at the time with no stacking will change a lot of IDK player's approach to the third turn. 

And then there are monsters smashing faction-terrain. But since our ships are more a psychological barrier that anything else I don't think that will be too bad. Other factions have more to lose.

Other than that the new edition will be rules-heavy. It will be tough to remember, which unit is part of which core-battalion and therefore eligible for which buff. Also getting into all the new generic command abilities will take a while. But I think so far IDK are pretty well off with the changes I have seen thus far.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by DocKeule

[LordRhulak]

Points will also be increasing across the board, so we will be able to fit fewer models into our armies. Hopefully the lack of battatalion will be enough to mean that lists don't change that much. It willtmake an already elite army even more elite, however. We might be struggling to hold objectives soon. Maybe the turtle will help with that?

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by LordRhulak

[Molkaice]

My thought process goes to how long eels stay as a battlelin option.  There's always the possibility it gets shifted into an enclave specific role and we're forced to use namarti.

I doubt GW wants to have models they cant move/sell

[DocKeule]

5 hours ago, Molkaice said:

My thought process goes to how long eels stay as a battlelin option.  There's always the possibility it gets shifted into an enclave specific role and we're forced to use namarti.

I doubt GW wants to have models they cant move/sell

That would seriously surprise me. The are already only battleline if an Akhelian King is the general. I don't think they would close this window even further.

As for the point changes I don't think IDK are really under-priced compared to other current factions. Maybe five point here or there

[Kitsumy]

Rumour is 195 morsar, 380 or 390 turtle i dont remember,sharks 125. I didnt read about others units, turtle one is sligthy more than morathy %wise. Morsar raised around 16%?, Around the same as the dok troops leaks.shark raised 15% so still the same as morsar.

 

Not too big hit if we compare it with dok leaks, we got around the same, problem is we didnt see all units, and maybe others armys dont get hit so big.

 

Per example vampire cavalry now cost the same our morsar, but they have 15w vs our 12, 3+ vs our 4+, do like 18 average dmg vs our 10,5 cant retreat and charge doing mortals vs our average 3mw once per game, we have 4 more move but 50- leadership..... So i dont get why people always cry about eels and cry new vampires are useless, eels are even average for me, not op for sure.

 

 

[DocKeule]

That would be ha hefty increase. But we will see in about three weeks.

[DocKeule]

Well...

- Command abilities can only be used once per phase.
Looks like Volturnos has just gone down in value immensely

- Cover is now +1 on save rolls
So there is redundancy with the turtle again 🙄

[LordRhulak]

I'm not sure I completely understand how enhancements work, but if I'm right you can take an artefact, prayer, command triat unique enhancement etc. for every army and then take extra of one if you take the right battlation. 

If that is the case, the Soul-scryer casting heal on the leviadon would be powerful, especially with the upgrades to monsters. If we can only take one from the options then cloud of midnight trumps it every single time

[Drofnum]

55 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

Well...

- Command abilities can only be used once per phase.
Looks like Volturnos has just gone down in value immensely

- Cover is now +1 on save rolls
So there is redundancy with the turtle again 🙄

The turtle doesnt provide cover and cover has always been +1?  Thats what low tide provides.

[Siorra]

22 hours ago, Drofnum said:

The turtle doesnt provide cover and cover has always been +1?  Thats what low tide provides.

It was only recently changed to +1 save, it used to be cover. Until AoS3 rules came in, this meant t1 we got cover +1 (so +2). Now that saves are limited to +1, we're back to being stuck with +1 t1. Though the Leviadon's save still applies on the charge, if you're doing that turn 1.

So we have Volturnos's CA limited to 1, less hordes to chew through (theoretically), thrall stonks going down, reaver stonks going up(?) sharks counting as 2 on objectives, eels able to to use CA's on themselves, and the big winner is the Soulscryer now able to dispell endless spells and chant prayers (including curse, which will work wonders with the volume of attacks from eels). Any other big adjustments that people have noticed?

[Kenk]

On 6/14/2021 at 5:10 PM, LordRhulak said:

If that is the case, the Soul-scryer casting heal on the leviadon would be powerful.

I can only see myself taking curse as a prayer. The boost in damage output on a unit of eels could partially make up for the loss of stacked +attacks.

The magic game seems to be more important. The arcane tome is going to be taken quite widely and a king with flaming weapons isn’t the worst use for it. The Aspect of the Sea has some new tricks also, making itself a monster or ‘storing’ D3 impact mortals from arcane bolt.

Reactive fire from shark nets to prevent a pile-in increases their value.

We seem to have lost one whole ship, as each army can only take ‘one faction terrain piece’.

Unless there is some limitation, Gotrek can heal himself D3 twice per round. Although cogs can’t get him up the (smaller) board, that feels big.

 

[DocKeule]

7 hours ago, Kenk said:

We seem to have lost one whole ship, as each army can only take ‘one faction terrain piece’.

I think this would fall under the "specific rules overwrite core rules".

[Molkaice]

If Thralls got 2" reach would that bring them into usable with the new rules? Also other than making eels battleline is the use of kings as generals closer to a 50/50 with tidecaster?

I mean reavers can be pretty good with the new command abilities.  I mean getting charged but shooting 30 shots on 5s isn't terrible, and other synergies to boost their attacks helps.

I'm excited to see how 3.0 shapes up for our now ancient tome, at this point its between us and nurgle for whose base rules are outdated.

[Kitsumy]

Yes we really need a new tome. Since is the oldest one.

The cap on save make all our tone weird.  Cover turn1, turtle aura. Tsnk eels bonus on charge. But nothing stacks. So turtle go back from amazing to meh aura but really good beaststick.

Our ritual/prayer need serious rework, is 3x times harder to do than other armys and effects are useless.

 

Thralls both versions need 2" on melee for sure ( like every 32 base mini should get not only idk). Right now they are totally useless and cant be played, in fact i wont play any aos3 till they fix this, or 2" or make them 5 minimun size. But i wont play a game where they force me to pay a full unit but only can use half of them.

 

Comands need reworks, the old gimmik of 1 op spamed has gone, now only have 1ca, on 1 hero that need to be the general be only on turn3, and now only can be used 1 time..... Must change to +1atk to a unit without any restriction, like most of tomes got. And new abilitys on other heros, like maybe soulscryer rezzing half bald unit like undeads.

 

Dok were released 1 month prior us, and got the 2.0 tome, new miniature, spells, army vs army box( was a steal), and they shine on lore. We havent got absolute anything since our release, and on lore we only was trashed.... I think we deserve a propper tome as first wave of 3.0, with new miniatures or hero minimun, spells finally and a tome with propper spells, prayers etc with fun mechanics, in fact i would like to high wave dissapear for a more balanced and fun mechanic