AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

How odd. What would they replace wyldwoods with as a terrain piece?

[Emissary]

52 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

How odd. What would they replace wyldwoods with as a terrain piece?

I've heard there's a new one coming.  What was described to me was a terrain piece with 1 central tree or whatever.  We were expecting at least one in the Looncurse box, but that wasn't to be.  I wasn't told how large the Wyldwood was in terms of footprint.

I was told they wanted to make a new Wyldwood because the existing one is tough to use because you can't get into the wood easily with your hands or models.  I know from personal experience that I usually just place the bases down and don't put on the trees so that I can move the models around on the base (I just don't put models on or move them over the tree spaces).   I think this is what they're trying to solve (along with selling more Wyldwoods of course.)

Edited April 30, 2019 by Emissary

[Trevelyan]

Doesn’t everyone just remove the trees to gain access? I’ve literally never seen a citadel wood with the trees glued into place. Introducing a new wood just to address access seems like a very flimsy justification. 

[Emissary]

Just telling you what I heard.  It is kind of silly to not use the entire scenery.

Anyway, information about the Arch-Revenant is up.   Kurnoth hunters wholly within 12" reroll 1s to hit, decent melee weapons with a 12" move and the command ability adds 1 to attacks for a melee unit within 9" (12" if the general).   The reroll is nice since it also works on their bows and the extra attacks is welcome, especially for large units of Kurnoth Hunters and Tree-Revenants, especially if the Tree-Revenants are changed to strike first in combat like the Shadespire crew...

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

I like it!

[GeneralZero]

1880 points for their list. Do you think that it means some point changes?

[GeneralZero]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/30/looncurse-the-heroes-and-sample-armiesgw-homepage-post-1/

they did a list with 3 boxes and Alarielle. Is this a nice/strong list or just meh...? 3 * 10 revenant as battleline, are they resilient enough for this role?

[Emissary]

Who knows about point changes, but if points costs didn't change the Arch-Revenant is 100 pts.

[Hoseman]

I hope they make something for revenants, I'm not a fan of bucks of 20 dryads for a nice battleline. 

Tree-rev reroll 1 to wound and with 3+ they fight first.... I see kurnoth better for hit

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

9 minutes ago, Emissary said:

Who knows about point changes, but if points costs didn't change the Arch-Revenant is 100 pts.

That seems pretty decent considering the buffs he provides and his own weapon statline.

Do you have any guesses what the Endless Spells might be? I think there was a rumor going around what they might be but I don't recall it.

[Emissary]

I don't know anything about the endless spells.

[KnaveOfScribes]

I'm impressed with the direction they seem to be going with the Arch-Revenant - I've been crying out for a low-mid points cost combat hero that's not Durthu for ages, for those of us who don't enjoy going the multiple-tarpit Dryad/Wych/Wood/Ancient route and want  be a little more aggressive with the Sylvaneth. Hopefully the basic revenants themselves will get some kind of tweak to make them a decent option, even if its something as simple as 2 wounds.

The fact that the Arch-Revenants attacks and rules seem to be a perfect fit for my own Man-Stag conversion is just the cherry on the wooden cake.

And regarding Wyldwoods, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the old model replaced with a single big tree, in the style of the Feculent Gnarlmaw or Herdstone. Easier to transport, easier to physically play around, and of course easier for GW to make money on (which we cant really begrudge them for, as they are at the end of the day, a business.) - and for everyone who already has a bunch of the old woods (which lets face it, aren't great models), just think about the awesome forest themed gaming tables you can do for narrative games (yes they exist still) as well as for interesting and different looking matched play games.

Old and replaced doesn't mean obsolete and useless.

[Hoseman]

2 minutes ago, KnaveOfScribes said:

I'm impressed with the direction they seem to be going with the Arch-Revenant - I've been crying out for a low-mid points cost combat hero that's not Durthu for ages, for those of us who don't enjoy going the multiple-tarpit Dryad/Wych/Wood/Ancient route and want  be a little more aggressive with the Sylvaneth. Hopefully the basic revenants themselves will get some kind of tweak to make them a decent option, even if its something as simple as 2 wounds.

The fact that the Arch-Revenants attacks and rules seem to be a perfect fit for my own Man-Stag conversion is just the cherry on the wooden cake.

And regarding Wyldwoods, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the old model replaced with a single big tree, in the style of the Feculent Gnarlmaw or Herdstone. Easier to transport, easier to physically play around, and of course easier for GW to make money on (which we cant really begrudge them for, as they are at the end of the day, a business.) - and for everyone who already has a bunch of the old woods (which lets face it, aren't great models), just think about the awesome forest themed gaming tables you can do for narrative games (yes they exist still) as well as for interesting and different looking matched play games.

Old and replaced doesn't mean obsolete and useless.

Ylthari guardians has 1 wound so don't expect 2 wounds for revenants. I thing exactly the same as u, I dont like dryads and I would love an aggressive army with revenants and kurnoths. I feel the hero aura of reroll hits of 1 for kurnoth would be great for revenants cause if they gain the Ylthari guardians abilities they will go re-roll wound of 1 and with 3+ fight first. 

 For now I see kurnoth going sooo damn good. re-roll all saves if dont move, the mortal wound mechanic, 5 wounds more for almost same price as 10 revenants, more damage and now reroll hits of 1 with arch revenant... 

For sylvaneth wyldwood I expect a pack of 3 trees that work on area

[AaronWilson]

The arch revanent is really sweet for 100 points, punchy, great utility and a decent command ability. 

[a74xhx]

32 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

 For sylvaneth wyldwood I expect a pack of 3 trees that work on area

Hmm... that sounds like a reasonable guess. Looking at the Gnawhole rules, they sound very close to what the new rules could be. And GW has a habit of recycling rules. So I'm going to take a guess at: 

*Setup 3 woods before deploying units. There are restrictions on where they can be placed.

*You can't summon more woods.  Say goodbye to the Acorn of the ages. Say goodbye to wyldwood deepstrike.

*You can teleport any Sylvaneth within 6" of a wood to another wood.

*Enemy units treat the woods as one of the "bad" scenery effects from the core rules, Sylvaneth treat the woods as one of the "good" scenery  effects.

*No longer blocks LOS.

[Hoseman]

1 minute ago, a74xhx said:

Hmm... that sounds like a reasonable guess. Looking at the Gnawhole rules, they sound very close to what the new rules could be. And GW has a habit of recycling rules. So I'm going to take a guess at: 

*Setup 3 woods before deploying units. There are restrictions on where they can be placed.

*You can't summon more woods.  Say goodbye to the Acorn of the ages. Say goodbye to wyldwood deepstrike.

*You can teleport any Sylvaneth within 6" of a wood to another wood.

*Enemy units treat the woods as one of the "bad" scenery effects from the core rules, Sylvaneth treat the woods as one of the "good" scenery  effects.

*No longer blocks LOS.

I see that you can summon woods, but instead of the forest just a tree

[Nixon]

Thankfully the Wyldwoods can be used as regular terrain. 

Personally Im glad to see them go. 

[KnaveOfScribes]

1 minute ago, Nixon said:

Thankfully the Wyldwoods can be used as regular terrain. 

Personally Im glad to see them go. 

Hear hear. Be good to send the end of Sylvaneth being seen as one-dimensional wood-spammers and that being the only "right" way to play them.

[The World Tree]

Good riddance to the trees

[overtninja]

Considering how much I use my trees to stop people from charging with huge monsters and spook my opponents who multi-wound models, I'm actually sorry to see them go. They offer great board control and movement abilities. If they aren't replaced with something that provides cover, Sylvaneth lose a great deal of staying power (Kurnoth at 3+ rerollable is way better than 4+ rerollable, and Dryads at 4+ or 3+ is also way better than... 5+ or 4+). Also, I own 8 of them, so... yeah.

I'm fully committed to playing the army, but I'm hoping I don't have to buy a lot of new woods.

 

edit - Rather happy if bow Kurnoth get buffed though, it would be nice to field them, they look the coolest out of the 3 varieties.

Edited April 30, 2019 by overtninja
additional text

[KnaveOfScribes]

1 hour ago, Hoseman said:

Ylthari guardians has 1 wound so don't expect 2 wounds for revenants. I thing exactly the same as u, I dont like dryads and I would love an aggressive army with revenants and kurnoths. I feel the hero aura of reroll hits of 1 for kurnoth would be great for revenants cause if they gain the Ylthari guardians abilities they will go re-roll wound of 1 and with 3+ fight first. 

 For now I see kurnoth going sooo damn good. re-roll all saves if dont move, the mortal wound mechanic, 5 wounds more for almost same price as 10 revenants, more damage and now reroll hits of 1 with arch revenant... 

For sylvaneth wyldwood I expect a pack of 3 trees that work on area

I totally skimmed Ylthari's rules and forgot about them - good call. To be honest, I'd still prefer +1w over potentially fighting first in some circumstances, but that's just me. 

Kurnoth are definitely looking tastier, which is a good thing - people need to remember that there's more to Sylvaneth than just dropping 90 odd dryads down. 

[Mirage8112]

If the wyldwoods are in fact going, (and for all you cheering about that) consider the fact that is going to mean a complete redesign of the army.

Think of how many of our warscrolls revolve around WW placement. Durthu and his guardian sword, dryads and their -1 hit, t-revs and thier waypipes, Alarielle and her built-in spell, TLA and his built in spell. Acorn, verdant blessing so on and so forth. Not to mention our army allegiance ability. 

Without our ability to drop tres on the table, a lot of those abilities will be utterly useless, so if WW’s go, they go too. 

I wonder what that means for our playstyle? Since so much of high-level Sylvaneth play means making use of teleporting shenanigans, as well as offensive alpha-bunkering, that will likely change dramatically. 

The one exception being that if “wyldwoods are 100% going”, that means the models and not the woods themselves. them citadel woods are starting to look a little long in the tooth, and I wouldn’t mind an update to the model itself;f, but if its only a single terrain piece like the dwarves forge or Slaneesh’s mirror thing, expect Sylvaneth to play like a completely different army. 

That new hero is aces though. Both model-wise and rule wise....            

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mirage8112

[overtninja]

1 minute ago, Mirage8112 said:

If the wyldwoods are in fact going, (and for all you cheering about that) consider the fact that is going to mean a complete redesign of the army.

Think of how many of our warscrolls revolve around WW placement. Durthu and his guardian sword, dryads and their -1 hit, t-revs and thier waypipes, Alarielle and her built-in spell, TLA and his built in spell. Acorn, verdant blessing so on and so forth. Not to mention our army allegiance ability. 

Without our ability to drop tres on the table, a lot of those abilities will be utterly useless, so if WW’s go, they go too. 

I wonder what that means for our playstyle? Since so much of high-level Sylvaneth play means making use of teleporting shenanigans, as well as offensive alpha-bunkering, that will likely change dramatically. 

 The one exception being that if “wyldwoods are 100% going”, that means the models and not the woods themselves. them citadel woods are starting to look a little long in the tooth, and I wouldn’t mind an update to the model itself;f, but if its only a single terrain piece like the dwarves forge or Slaneesh’s mirror thing, expect Sylvaneth to play like a completely different army. 

That new hero is aces though. Both model-wise and rule wise....            

For real, the Wyldwoods have been MVP for me many games, and the whole army would be pretty fragile and slow without them. 

[Heksagon]

I can't wait for the box... So I decided to make my own kitbashed Arch-Revenant!

[Trevelyan]

48 minutes ago, overtninja said:

For real, the Wyldwoods have been MVP for me many games, and the whole army would be pretty fragile and slow without them. 

That’s my experience too. 

Im not married to them as scenery pieces, but the Wyldwoods pull a lot of weight for the faction, and it’s not as if we are tearing up the competitive circuit even with the ability to drop terrain that simultaneously blocks LoS, provides cover, limits charging and has a range of buffs for pretty much every sylvaneth unit. 

Changing them, or dropping them entirely, is fine in theory. But it’ll take one hell of a rewrite to the rest of the faction unless they are replaced with something similarly effective, or we get a slew of other buffs. 

I’m curious to see what the future brings., but also wary insofar as terrain manipulation and teleport shenanigans is what attracted me to a Sylvaneth in the first place.