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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

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Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior
- Artefact: Briarsheath
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below

Battleline
30 x Dryads (270)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Battalions
Dreadwood Wargrove (90)
Outcasts (90)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112

 

Hi everyone,

 

this is my take on a Dreadwood list for 2.0.

I think it is quite standard:

- TLA with a setup for giving good survivability.

- Wych with Acorn for ambushing + placing a safe Wyldwood

- Wraith with Ranu's to get Cog and Summoning online more reliably.

My plan A would be (calculating with an average of 2 Dreadwood powers per game) to:

Setup Wych -_> Drop Wood -> Cast Cogs with Wraith from a safe distance ->  Teleport half of my army onto the enemies head -> Charge. :D

I know that this sounds way to easy and will not happen like this in a large percentage of games, but I think the list gives quite some flexibility. If the enemy has a juicy target that is not deployed perfectly, you could also just setup Scythe Hunters and try to kill it ASAP, while you move Drycha with an threatrange of almost 30".

As I am not really experienced, I would love to have some Feedback from more experienced Sylvaneth Players. Also, do you Thing Lifeswarm is worth the try or would you prefer a damage dealing Endless Spell, like e.g. Geminids?

 

Thanks!

 

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57 minutes ago, Craze said:

As I am not really experienced, I would love to have some Feedback from more experienced Sylvaneth Players. Also, do you Thing Lifeswarm is worth the try or would you prefer a damage dealing Endless Spell, like e.g. Geminids?

Yeah, a # of the elements you laid out will be part of the baseline for Dreadwood, when the opportunity exists to do an effective alphastrike. I think one of the challenges with your particular list is it needs more punch.

A common pre-GHB18 choice for Dreadwood had been Ambushing 6 Scythes. That's still a pretty good option, although you'll also see lists bumping that # to 9 now. A Spirit of Durthu with Ghyrstrike will likely be another common route.

In terms of a command trait, I've been using Warsinger for a long while instead of Gnarled Warrior because of the significance of +1 to charge, turning our 9+ charges via teleporting into 8+ charges, and of course with Cogs on, that'll be 6+ charges with a command point to RR the charge if needed.

The Celestant Prime is another interesting prospect, because of the unique options he provides, e.g.:

  • As another source of long-range D3 mortal wounds with an area of effect up to 6".
  • As a reliable piece in an alphastrike. He'll have 3 attacks base in the new Stormcast Battletome (2" reach, 3's and 2's, -3 rend, 3 damage). Also, you'll now be able to use his Orrery ability to change both dice in a charge roll (I think that's right, based on my memory of WH Live over the weekend), so he can auto-charge at 12".
  • As a reliable piece in a betastrike, i.e., you keep him in the Celestial Realm round 1, and then you crash him into something important in round 2 (e.g., as a second-wave attack or a counter-strike), giving him 5 attacks + his Sceptre's mortal wound output.

Taking the Prime turns Dreadwood into a 2 drop, but I suspect 2-drop will still out-deploy maybe 8-9 out of 10 opponents in GHB18. 

Re: Emerald Lifeswarm...that's a tough one. It definitely has potential. Other choices, though, may give better mileage in more settings. Highly recommend experimenting with a range of endless spells, especially the Pendulum, Geminids, Palisade, Shackles, and Swords. And Cogs + Warsinger is probably going to be standard in a lot of tree lists.

Edited by scrubyandwells
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@scrubyandwells First of all: Thanks a lot for your feedback!

 

Considering Hunters , you are probably right...I made the "mistake" of building my first ones with bows and especially in Dreadwood I guess scythes would be A LOT better.

The Durthu + Ghyrstrike Combo also came to my mind, but I guess i will not have the space for him, as I really love the Drycha model and really want to play it.

So I think I will first Switch the bow hunters for scythe ones and make one unit of 6.

Warsinger also sounds good. I think I will try this.

 

Thanks!

 

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Me and some friends are going to play a 4000vs4000 point 2v2 game this friday. Really looking forward to it. Made a quick list with all-in offence in mind:

LEADERS

Spirit of Durthu (380)

- General - Command Trait : Gnarled Warrior

- Artefact : Ghyrstrike

Treelord Ancient (300)

- Artefact : Moonstone of the Hidden Ways

- Deepwood Spell : Regrowth

Drycha Hamadreth (280)

- Deepwood Spell : Regrowth

Branchwraith (80)

- Deepwood Spell : Throne of Vines

Branchwych (80)

- Artefact : Acorn of the Ages

- Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing

UNITS

5 x Spite-Revenants (70)

5 x Spite-Revenants (70)

5 x Spite-Revenants (70)

5 x Spite-Revenants (70)

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) -Scythes

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) -Greatswords

BATTALIONS

Outcasts (90)

Dreadwood Wargrove (90)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Malevolent Maelstrom (20)

 

As we are playing 2v2 I left the objectives to my partner to go all out, balls to the walls aggressive play. As one of my enemies plays Tzeentch and my ally is coming with KO I wanted to try out the Maelstrom. Any experiences with it? Is it worth it or should I spend that last 20 points on Quicksilver Swords?

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I’ve not had any experience with the endless spells. Malevolent Maelstrom is a super cool spell. Just remember it will help your opponents unbinding too!

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Thank you for your response @ppetford

How many Citadel Woods do i need / would you recommend me for 1000P to 1500P

 

 

Edited by Atreyu

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@Atreyuat least two, everything will highly depend on how many terrain pieces you use on a table, sometimes it would be very difficult to fit even a forest of two parts.

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On 7/4/2018 at 7:24 AM, Atreyu said:

Hey there a friend and i want to start over again with the new edition of AOS. He has already some Idoneth Deepkin and the Nighthaunt Part of the new Box as well as a skaven army at home.

Currently i only have some Stormcast at home, but im bored of all this similar looking golden dudes. Also i had only a few games with them at the start of  the previous edition... So im searching a new army and think about starting with Sylvaneth, because i like their forest / nature theme and the models

What are the bigger advantages and drawbacks with the Sylvaneth in the second edition (I know the new edition is just a few days old, but maybe someone already tested them)? Do you guys think the army will be competitionable in the future?

The plan is to build a 1000 Points army for the beginning. What would you recommend me to bring / buy for a 1000Points army. How many Citadel Woods do i need for the beginning?

 

PS: Sorry for my bad English. Its not my native language and i only used it here and there...

I think Sylvaneth were solid in AoS 1.0 and have only gotten more love in AoS 2.0. Sylvaneth are an extremely flexible army that do things across all stages of the game. As you ask about the competitiveness in 2.0, I think they are positioned very well. They should do well at most tournaments, may not be going 5-0 at LVO or a tournament of that prominence but they'll definitely be there doing work. Who is to say how they'll place competitively in 2.0? I'm certainly not qualified but how they are competitively is only one reason to play them. If you love the lore, models, and are generally excited about the army go for them.

For a 1k army 100% grab the Start Collecting. From there I would suggest a box of Kurnoth Hunters and another box of Dryads. That will fill out your battleline requirement and give you an elite troop to mess around with. Plus, you'll still have points left over to pick up one more box! Drycha would fit, or more Kurnoths, etc. I will say, if you get the Start Collecting build your general as a Treelord Ancient, the unit is a terrific foundation for the army. Oh and a great budget option is 2 Start Collecting boxes. You can mess around with two big tree guys, enough Dryads for multiple battlelines, and some little caster friends. If you built Durthu and a TLA I believe you'd be right around 1k points. Probably not the best list but also probably not too bad.

Final word of advice below...

9 hours ago, Atreyu said:

Thank you for your response @ppetford

How many Citadel Woods do i need / would you recommend me for 1000P to 1500P

 

 

Honestly, I think you need more than 3 woods, aka 6. The army will allow you to place 1-3 tree bases at the start of the game. I often string out 2. First turn, you are then hoping to place 1 or 2 more forests (this all depends on board size and cramping). Therefore, by turn one you're likely at 3 forest bases, if not 4/5/6. From then on, I find I place forests much less often. I'll still drop the occasional forest between then and end game so for a start, I'd suggest buying two boxes of 3 bases, giving you 6 total which is enough to setup your game plan turn 1/2.

The tree placement is both fun and frustrating. I love the game mechanics that stem from the woods but building and paying for them (in my experience) is frustrating. It makes the initial investment in Sylvaneth higher than many armies at 1k points (because you need the forests). To that end I'd suggest trying to find a similar alternative that's not as expensive early on. That way you can play with your buddy, see how you feel about your army, and then buy the real deal if you're pleased.

Hope you find this helpful!

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12 hours ago, Craze said:

As I am not really experienced, I would love to have some Feedback from more experienced Sylvaneth Players. Also, do you Thing Lifeswarm is worth the try or would you prefer a damage dealing Endless Spell, like e.g. Geminids?

I would give Lifeswarm a whirl, why not? However, I think you'll find yourself disappointed by the spell (S&W said as much already).

S&W listed out a bunch of good alternatives. For Dreadwood I personally think Shackles and the Pendulum could be great with ambush. They also come out to 60pts which covers your lifeswarm drop. IF you used that choice for the battalion roll moving all the way up field with either of these spells could be truly brutal for the opponent.

Just a thought but lifeswarm is nice in that if you put it behind you, the opponent will have a hard time moving it to themselves and benefiting. Therefore, should they chose to move that endless spell, all they can do is run it away from you.

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@IndigoGirls This aspect of Lifeswarm is exactly what I thought. It will be quite hard for my opponent to benefit from it w/o me also benefitting.

Just out of curiosity: Who/what is S&W?

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8 hours ago, Craze said:

@IndigoGirls This aspect of Lifeswarm is exactly what I thought. It will be quite hard for my opponent to benefit from it w/o me also benefitting.

Just out of curiosity: Who/what is S&W?

 

5 hours ago, ppetford said:

I assume S&W = @scrubyandwells

Yup @ppetford is right on, sorry if that wasn't clear enough! I'm not a huge fan of Lifeswarm but if you try it out and enjoy it certainly let me know :)

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@IndigoGirlsThank you :)

Well i bought a start collecting Box, a Unit of Tree Revenants and one citadel wood yesterday :D

So for my first 1000P game in AOS 2 tomorrow i need to combine sylvaneth with my old stormcast dudes. 

LEADERS
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
Branchwych (80)
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Allies
UNITS
10 x Dryads (100)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers
- Allies
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)
- 2 x Starsoul Maces
- Allies

I have now idea which spells, command trait and artefact i should choose ? I think regrowth could be a good choice, but should i take it on both wizards or just maybe on the ancient? What do you think about the moonstone artefact?

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

 

Yup @ppetford is right on, sorry if that wasn't clear enough! I'm not a huge fan of Lifeswarm but if you try it out and enjoy it certainly let me know :)

Ok, thanks. :D

Yeah, I am moving next weekend, and am having 2 weeks off after that...this will be a good time to test all the endless spells and get a feeling for their strengths & weaknesses on the table.

Will definetly give an update when I have some insights to share. ;)

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3 hours ago, Atreyu said:

What do you think about the moonstone artefact?

Most of the time I use moonstone in low point games. The treelord ancient suffers fron a pretty severe distraction carnifex syndrome. I had enough of enemy focus fire and crippling it as it moved up on the board so the deepstrike option is really sweet imo.

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@AtreyuMoonstone is a good choice, especially since you won’t be putting woods all across the board. As far as spells go, regrowth on the Ancient is definitely a great idea. Maybe treesong might be a good spell for your Wych, allowing you to really punish anyone who wanders into your woods. You’ll just need to be careful where you place your non-Sylvaneth units or they risk getting hurt by the woods too

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Getting back to my angry trees for 2.0 and I'm having trouble making lists that can keep up with the newer armies, like DoK and Deepkin.  It just seems like Sylvaneth lack the multiple layers of buffs that those armies do.

For instance I played against DoK this week and a unit of 20 strong Melusai backed by a Cauldron and Medusa basically destroyed my whole army through a combination of the Mortal Wounds they inflict and the high volume of attacks with buffed rending from Mindrazor and rerolling hits and wounds due to cult abilities and prayers, let alone their rerolling 6++.

Are Sylvaneth really that far behind the power curve?

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2 hours ago, TheKingInYellow said:

Getting back to my angry trees for 2.0 and I'm having trouble making lists that can keep up with the newer armies, like DoK and Deepkin.  It just seems like Sylvaneth lack the multiple layers of buffs that those armies do.

For instance I played against DoK this week and a unit of 20 strong Melusai backed by a Cauldron and Medusa basically destroyed my whole army through a combination of the Mortal Wounds they inflict and the high volume of attacks with buffed rending from Mindrazor and rerolling hits and wounds due to cult abilities and prayers, let alone their rerolling 6++.

Are Sylvaneth really that far behind the power curve?

I just played a DoK army yesterday who used the Cauldron and Melusai. He wasn't running a unit of 20 but I handled the Melusai without any real issues. I did so by limiting the number he could use on the pile-in, then I got a good offensive roll with my TLA sweeps/impale and knocked out 5 or 6 in one combat.

I'm not a competitive player but I've never had an issue holding my own against any army. I haven't had the chance to see Idoneth yet but I played against a lot of KO clown cars, DoK, Nurgle, and others. I didn't win ever game but there were few blowouts (except for my first game against the old clown car).

If you and your opponent are using the new artifacts try out the refracting lens (I think that's the one) from the realm of light that severely reduces mortal wounds taken. Protects against a Sylvaneth shortcoming and was a stud in my game.

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Anyone have rough numbers on expected damage from a Durthu vs 6 Scythe Kurnoth hunters? Obviously Kurnoths have way more combined wounds and are 20 pts more. Just trying to get a feel for the damage separation. I'm personally thinking that for pure damage against high armor targets, Kurnoth's will do more. New +1 hit/wound artifact for Durthu is pretty juicy though and might change those numbers a bit.

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Hey guys,

Just bought 4 boxes of Kurnoth hunters. I was thinking of making 6x scythes and 6x bows. Or should I make 6x scythes 3x bows 3x swords. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks 

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11 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

Anyone have rough numbers on expected damage from a Durthu vs 6 Scythe Kurnoth hunters? Obviously Kurnoths have way more combined wounds and are 20 pts more. Just trying to get a feel for the damage separation. I'm personally thinking that for pure damage against high armor targets, Kurnoth's will do more. New +1 hit/wound artifact for Durthu is pretty juicy though and might change those numbers a bit.

It's a pretty tough comparison to make honestly - lots of variables. Kurnoths do less damage, but have significantly more wounds. Kurnoths have no ranged attack, and are tougher to get all into combat. Durthu damage falls off a lot after taking a few wounds, or without an optimal setup. At full health, assuming the +1/+1 artefact and fighting near a wyldwood, Durthu looks to do on average 24.83 damage (wow), and 16.51 if he's not within 3" of a wood - both numbers counting his ranged attack as well. Kurnoths do 16.67 assuming they can all get on target. Now Durthu's talon can kill a model outright, and he can also take wounds for other heroes. Kurnoths can cap points more effectively and don't fall off as hard after taking some damage. All things considered, I'd probably go with the Kurnoths unless you really need a hero/artefact. 

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13 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

Anyone have rough numbers on expected damage from a Durthu vs 6 Scythe Kurnoth hunters? Obviously Kurnoths have way more combined wounds and are 20 pts more. Just trying to get a feel for the damage separation. I'm personally thinking that for pure damage against high armor targets, Kurnoth's will do more. New +1 hit/wound artifact for Durthu is pretty juicy though and might change those numbers a bit.

Don't have numbers. Personal sense is 6 combat Kurnoth were a better buy than Durthu in GHB17, and are an even better buy now.

Taking Ghyrstrike would help, although that's an item slot, a precious resource, and a -1 to hit debuff (or worse) is relatively easy to come by in the game now.

Six Kurnoth Swords (2x3, or maybe 1x6 in Dreadwood for Ambush), in particular, will be amazing vs the majority of units I expect we'll see on the table. 

Part of the consideration, as with anything, is list-dependent. E.g., with Alarielle, 2x3 Kurnoth give you two targets for Soul Amphorae, but Durthu gives you a bodyguard for Alarielle to help keep her alive e.g. vs alphastrikes or ranged mortal wounds.

Overall, though, as long as ranged mortal wound output isn't way over the top in the AoS2 meta, I think Durthu will be quite playable, and man would it be fun to give him Ghyrstrike and put him in situations where he has a real chance to shine.

 

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5 hours ago, Japanman said:

Hey guys,

Just bought 4 boxes of Kurnoth hunters. I was thinking of making 6x scythes and 6x bows. Or should I make 6x scythes 3x bows 3x swords. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks 

Yeah I'd highly recommend at least x3 Swords. Just fair warning: Once you play with x3, you're going to want at least x3 more. :)

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45 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

Yeah I'd highly recommend at least x3 Swords. Just fair warning: Once you play with x3, you're going to want at least x3 more. :)

Currently I'd make them 6 scythes, 3 swords and 3 bows too. Swords have their uses and in heavy magic lists (endless spells) you can deal with heavy armor by inflicting MW.

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Hey just asking in here since I might just have missed it (I've been looking in the malign sorcery book a bit uncooridinatly) and making a whole topic about it just to hear I've not read stuff well enough isn't all that: How does moving endless spells work. Some have rather large bases and a limited amount of movement. What happens if you can't clear a unit? (I see that usually you could wheel a bit just to pass over it minimally so you'd have to stop in front of them). But how does it work with the pendulum that cannot wheel.. if there is no room he just has to stand infront of his target? (also the pendulum seems rather easy to avoid once cast ... certainly for the caster but also for the enemy in the 2nd turn - luckily gnarlroot wiill allow us to dispell it and then recast :D)

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