AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Cblackaus]

Cancon - I’ve Got Wood.

Well what a weekend that was!!!!

Onto Cancon - boy oh boy what an event.  The largest AoS tournament ever.  Congrats to Clint Herald and the team for organising and running such a complex event and to Rufio Symes andThe Honest Wargamer for their coverage and promotion.  

I’ve been playing (again)  for 6 months and focused almost solely on Sylvaneth - because I was told they were a simple army with low model count ... yeah right !!! 

My first version was a true net list - I only had 6 weeks to learn the game, and build and paint the army.  The list (Dreadwood) was well suited to team tournament but not so much individual. Nonetheless I took it to the Sydney GT and it went okay coming 7th? out of about 70.  So I knew the list could work - but it had some Hard counters - as Matt Tyrrell exposed with his Death army.  

For the 2nd version I swapped out Drycha and went with an Allarielle / Ethereal Durthu combo to give me a ‘tanky’ Alpha strike but left the core the dame.  I went to Brizhammer2 and managed to go 5-0 with it but it still had some glaring holes and I was fortunate I got good match ups. 

So onto Cancon and the meta had been evolving big time with more horde armies (beasts, Gloomspite, death) and the brutal  Idoneth.  I knew I had to beef up the battleline to give me a better late game esp against the horde and death armies.  

So I re-thought the list and created  a ‘horde’ Dreadwood bybadding a unit of 30 Dryads and a unit of tree revenants.   It had all the  benefits of alpha but with a very solid ability to hold and contest objectives if the alpha didn’t work or if it wasn’t appropriate.  

The list was
Allarielle - with Throne of Vines
Durthu - Lord of Spites (re-roll first missed hit in all phases)
2 Branchwraiths with Acorn of the Ages/Re growth and Ranus Lamenteri/Verdant Blessing.

30 Dryads
4*5 Spites
5 Tree Revenants
Geminids
Batallions - Dreadwood Wargrove, Outcasts
1-drop army

The tactics were:
Allarielle / Durthu combo with Durthu taking wounds on Allarielle on a 4+ and then saving with ethereal save.  Alpha strike for both if opponent made deployment mistakes AND if I got at least 2 stratagems at start of game.  Durthu was relocated within 6 inches of opponent and then Allarielle makes a 16inch move B4 the turn. Then Allarielle - casts spells - usually start with throne of vines and then  Geminids as it counters a potential double turn - if they take priority then Geminids goes right back through any unit I’m worried about hitting the duo.  After that I cast either Mystic Shield on Durthu if I needed it or Metamorphosis.

Then I’d pop Ghyrans wrath (the most valuable ability in Allarielles kit bag).  Then raise either 20 dryads or 3 bow hunters depending on scenario.  

Allarielle then makes her next 16 inch move for first turn joining Durthu,  

What comes next is brutal - the Allarielle and Durthu alpha - if you let it.  For instance, in game 4 it killed one alpha killed 60 ghouls, vargulf courtier, 9 wounds on a dragon, 6 on another (although I was able to use a rather filthy tactic with adjacent damned terrain). 

One of the most underestimated aspects of the alpha is the shooting.  Allarielle has a single shot doing D6 and Durthu has 6 doing D3 - all with re-rolls to wound and Durthu re-roll 1 miss.  Add in bow hunters and you can usually eliminate a fair portion or weaken key units.  And then comes combat. Because of the ability to place woods you can usually work it so that Durthu get his +D3 attacks. 4-6 attacks, re-roll first missed hit, re-roll all wounds, -2 rend, doing 6 dmg 😮🥴. And then Allarielle.  Apart from one notable occasion against the Master, Dave Kerr, she did the job.  
As to the branchwraiths -   Pretty simple - raise a forest with Acorn and then cast raise dryads ona 7.  The other (outside of 30 inches reach, raises a forest with its spell using Ranus (on a 4 or 5). Apart from 1 game I always had 3 forests at the end of T1.  I tried to place The Acorn/Regrowth within 3 of a forest to then relocate within 18 of Allarielle or Durthu.  
From there it was a simple matter of bringing all units deployed off the board onto the board.  I usually only had Allarielle, Durthu, Branchwraiths and The single tree revenants deployed pre game.  

After that - it was a matter of trying to keep the duo alive with her healing and Regrowth while using the 50-80 dryads contesting onjectives and threatening with the tree revenants.  Spites are simple, but effective screens and blockers.

So that’s the theory of the list.

For the tournament itself - I did some practice games and lost my last 2 games but felt positive.  I set a stretch goal of 5-1 and top 15 (and best Sylvaneth !!).   I knew I’d need some luck as I haven’t  played against popular and top tier armies - Daughters,  Idoneth or Stormcast. 
Along with beasts, anything that can get behind my lines is a hard counter.  As we saw in Dave Kerr’s final match at the masters the #1 target should usually be the Branchwraiths because their ability to raise dryads is essential as the (Dreadwood) list can be very soft.  

A quick summary of my games.
G1  vs Steve Gibb Goblins (not Gloomspite).  Steve is  ex-WH player who was very successful and only recently re-started. His list was based on the models he had and he hadn’t played Sylvaneth.  I explained it at the start and it ended up exactly as we thought it would with a lot of his army dead by T2.  Looking forward to playing again when he can take advantage of the new book. 

Game 2 was against one of the world’s best Warmachine players, Ben Leeper , who had just started up AoS and took an awesome and hard Nurgle list.  This game was brutal. Not pretty with him conceding after turn 1 after most of his army was dead for the ourposes of contesting objectives.  

Game 3 was against the current Master, Dave Kerr, with his Idoneth. First time I have played against them and I had little idea.  I didn’t know the combos and I didn’t know how it played.  And it showed! I deployed poorly and i probably shoukd have alphaed rather than rushing the objectives. 

However, I did actually have a good chance to make it very close, but it didn’t work out. On my T2, a full health Allarielle and 5 Tree Revenants charged 10 Thralls to gain his back scenario (worth 4?).  I killed 4 ... then an 8 wound Durthu charged 4 eels in his own wood and Dave rolled three 6s from his 4 dice pre-combat volts, and then 3 more 6s from D3s doing  9 mortal wounds - killed him B4 he could swing !!! 

I am not sure what would have happened after that because Dave still (would) have had an eidolon and Volturnus and a unit of 10 Thralls left - but it would have been close. The quote an old 60s phrase ‘Shoulda, woulda, coulda’!

I learnt a lot - I made a lot  mistakes which i can  hopefully learn from - learn the combos to help with target selection, learn the basics such as movement stats and become more familiar with unit rules.  Looking forward to the next game and hopefully giving him a better one. 

Game 4 was another very short game against Anthony Quilty. Another first for me - playing a Flesh-Eater courts.  Unfortunately this wasn’t a good game for either of us.  After my first turn, i had killed or seriously wounded over 50% of his army and eliminated 80% of his models.   He just  didn’t have the answers to my Dreadwood Alpha.  Not much of a game for him or me.   Hopefully next time we can play with better match armies. 

Game 5 and up against good mate and fellow Canberra player - Tim Neal  and his dominant Chaos Dwarves.  Of the 6 scenarios there was one I absolutely didn’t want to play him - Knife to the Heart.  With his shooting bunkernand troops he could more or less Guarantee a minor win if I engaged -  he has 2 * 40 inch mortars with 1-2 shots each that don’t need LoS mortars.    Needless to say - round 5 was Knife to the Heart on table 7 - damn !!! 

I could have just sat in corner and settled for a draw -  but after having only 6 turns from my previous 3 games, I wanted to play !!

I had a plan - Alpha to kill some 10-20 Foot troops and take 1 or 2 of the magma cannons and then teleport back to home base and heal and then go again and try and storm his objective.  Tim deployed perfectly and I only managed 10 and then killed only 1 cannon (I should have comfortably
Killed both but the dice gods deserted me). Then Tim’s went hot and Durthu died and  Allarielle had to retreat to heal up. I then threw everything against Tim and he countered it very well by blocking my forest teleport options (including a sneaky use of Ogrids brimstone).  I had one Chance but needed a 6 post teleport on 30 dryads for an instant win. I janked This once at Brizhammer vs Deano Matthews but not this time.  Tim deployed perfectly, countered every move and controlled to board and got a well deserved minor win - and ended up 10th overall.

For Game 6 I had the pleasure of playing Dan Doyle and his Khorne.  I had never played against them so i asked for advice. Dan was great.  “Just take the objectives, and don’t kill too much too soon as i don’t have the hitting power to contest the objectives if you’re in the wood”.  As an ex Khorne mortal and beasts player in V7, the red mist descended and I totally disregarded his advice, went full agro a d started to feed the blood tithe very very quickly 😜.  I used my 1 drop and movement teleporting to start to rack up   objective points. 
My Alpha took of 6 Juggers and put a lot of wounds on his Shrine.  However, I didn’t realize the power of the slaughter priests that did 12 mortals to Durthu in one turn and as a result Allarielle was exposed to the marauders that did 15 (of 16) wounds to Allarielle.  While all this was happening I managed to consolidate around the key objectives. A pivotal moment was when Dan forgot totally to use his blood tithe to raise 20 bloodletters and pressure my back objective.  Because of this the score ballooned out to ~14-5?.  We had only got through 3 turns with 25 mins left and decided to end it there.  We would have got through 4, but not 5 - so apologies to Dan.  Another great game with lots of lessons again.

My original stretch goal was to go 5-1 and get into the top 15.  I managed to go 4 major wins, 1 minor loss and 1 major loss and picked up all 6 scenarios.  Overall I canme 13th out of 200 and was top placed Sylvaneth army.  So absolutely stoked.  

On the army - it’s being retired and sold (PM me If you’re interested :)).  

Now that I’ve learnt the game rules its time to explore the different play and army styles so I’m running with a host of different armies   over the next 6 months that I’ve been able to either re/base or acquire.  Ideally I can get my Khorne Beasts up and running B4 the Sydney tournament on the 15/16th Feb - although it might be a stretch. If not, I have a character light death armybthays intriguing me 🙂 

Thanks all for comments on the army.  Disappoint not to get a nomination - but understandable given the quality of the armies that were there.  

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Cblackaus
Adding pics

[Ruhraffe]

It seems like it is a trend in AoS, that every army gets unique terrain. I wonder, if this can be detrimental for us sylvaneth players, because the other races clog up the board with their terrain as well, or if we are at an advantage by being a 1-drop army and setting up a wood before the other can start to drop their pieces, limiting the opponents space.

[AaronWilson]

Excellent write up @Cblackaus! Really well done on the result mate, showing that Dreadwood still has real game

[JP1]

Really enjoyed tournament report @Cblackaus, would be great to see more of these on this forum. Really gives us newer players some great insights into how some of the Sylvaneth Battalions work in a competitive game. Well done on a great result!

[TalesOfSigmar]

Hey guys, looking at starting Sylvaneth again. I ran them back when the book originally came out and it's the one army down the line I've ever regretted selling.

I used to run the Household/Gnarlroot formation with 18 Hunters at the time.... so it's odd writing lists with so many Dryads for objective holding this time. Was hoping I could get some feedback on a potential list, I was toying between the Evocators or two Stormcast Ballistas. I'm just not sure how well the ranged artillery will work with the woods blocking their line of sight.

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
Branchwraith (80)
Branchwych (80)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Dryads (270)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Units
5 x Evocators (200)

Battalions
Forest Folk (140)
Winterleaf Wargrove (90)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 111
 

Edited February 5, 2019 by TalesOfSigmar

[JP1]

On 2/5/2019 at 3:46 PM, TalesOfSigmar said:

Hey guys, looking at starting Sylvaneth again. I ran them back when the book originally came out and it's the one army down the line I've ever regretted selling.

I used to run the Household/Gnarlroot formation with 18 Hunters at the time.... so it's odd writing lists with so many Dryads for objective holding this time. Was hoping I could get some feedback on a potential list, I was toying between the Evocators or two Stormcast Ballistas. I'm just not sure how well the ranged artillery will work with the woods blocking their line of sight.

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
Branchwraith (80)
Branchwych (80)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Dryads (270)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Units
5 x Evocators (200)

Battalions
Forest Folk (140)
Winterleaf Wargrove (90)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 111
 

I really like the list and have been considering variants of it (more Evocators mainly) - i'm just not sure how well you can play allies with Sylvaneth at the moment with the current variant of Wyldwoods (fingers crossed it changes if we get a new battletome).

I'm generally getting  8-9 bases down first turn (Acron/Verdant Blessing), and with 4/5 spells you'll be setting the woods off quite frequently (plus the issue of running or charging through them, limiting your mobility with c.20% of your army).  As such, at the moment it feels like Sylvaneth  units just have the edge over any types of allies (bar Phoenix) in a Dryad/Woods based list right now , but i'd be interested in hearing other peoples experience with this?

[a74xhx]

NEW SYLVANETH MODELS!

Not expecting them to be of much use in AOS, but still, NEW SYLVANETH!

Here's hoping we get some Endless Spells soon too.

[Ruhraffe]

With LVO around the corner I took a look at the Sylvaneth lists present and was surprised. 6 Gnarlroots and 2 without batallions. Was there a change in the Meta? I thought Winterleaf and Harvestboon were the top notch Sylvaneth batallions. Can someone explain this to me, or is this just small sample size?

[Wickie De Viking]

4 hours ago, a74xhx said:

NEW SYLVANETH MODELS!

Not expecting them to be of much use in AOS, but still, NEW SYLVANETH!

Here's hoping we get some Endless Spells soon too.

Yeah they look amazing. I'm not sure I will be playing Warband stuff so I hope to use them in AoS matched play. And I assume the right model will be happily used as the new Branchwraith worldwide :)

[Aezeal]

The bow on revenants has potential as a unit  I'd say. 

[herohammer]

On 2/8/2019 at 6:50 AM, Ruhraffe said:

With LVO around the corner I took a look at the Sylvaneth lists present and was surprised. 6 Gnarlroots and 2 without batallions. Was there a change in the Meta? I thought Winterleaf and Harvestboon were the top notch Sylvaneth batallions. Can someone explain this to me, or is this just small sample size?

My guess would be small sample size and differences between US and UK unit preferences. I know one of the Sylvaneth players is using a list he has been messing around with for a long time in AOS and is running what he has the most experience and practice with.

[Seraphage]

Thanks for the reports @Cblackaus and congrats on the amazing results  !

 

Looking forward into reading more of those from ya !

[Drillz]

So from looking at the LVO lists vs UK and AUSTRALIA the main take away I see is.

US is still running Gnarlroot with hunters and Drycha

UK/AUS run winter leaf and  harvestboon focusing on dryads and running Alarielle.

Seems kinda strange that big of a difference and I am curious to hear y’all thoughts on why that is

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, Drillz said:

So from looking at the LVO lists vs UK and AUSTRALIA the main take away I see is.

US is still running Gnarlroot with hunters and Drycha

UK/AUS run winter leaf and  harvestboon focusing on dryads and running Alarielle.

Seems kinda strange that big of a difference and I am curious to hear y’all thoughts on why that is

Good internal balance

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

Was there indication of a release date for Ylthari's Guardians?

I think they look great and are very indicative of what is to come for Sylvaneth updates.

I wouldn't be surprised if them did a whole expanded Tree Rev style section of the army, led by a Kurnoth.

My rumour chips are down

[Arnied3]

Lol yeah the new models look great. I don't really want another unit of 5 Trevs but its new trees so i'll have to get them!

[Aeryenn]

I expected that faction updates will be more than 1 hero + endless spells and a scenery but seems to be the case at least for FEC, Skaven and Khorne. Probably it will be the same for Sylvaneth. What do you expect from a new Sylvaneth battletome? What kind of new allegiance abilities can we get or any at all? What new?

[Almace038]

My hope is a Kurnoth Hunter/Orion hero with a combat focus. As for allegiance things, I suspect the Stormhosts will be the way forward for allegiance abilities so I would like to see the various Groves take on more distinct identities, like Winterleaf’s Dryad buffs do currently. 

The largest single change I want to see is an update on the Wyldwoods, possibly a complete rework to bring the “feel” of the woods in line with the more recent scenery, particularly the Nurgle Gnarlmaws and the BoC Herdstones, though I don’t know what specifically would need to be done, but the old Citadel Woods models are the worst part of the army when it comes to talking to new players, telling a prospective Sylvaneth player that they will need to buy a bunch of old terrain models just to play their army sucks. It also makes the model range extremely reliant on their allegiance abilities, making things like Skirmish or the Living City rules obnoxiously difficult to get into.

[Twh30]

42 minutes ago, Aryann said:

I expected that faction updates will be more than 1 hero + endless spells and a scenery but seems to be the case at least for FEC, Skaven and Khorne. Probably it will be the same for Sylvaneth. What do you expect from a new Sylvaneth battletome? What kind of new allegiance abilities can we get or any at all? What new?

I think they will make most things wholly within rather than within as pretty sure they are trying to stop conga lines. So could hurt us a little tbh

[Almace038]

Thematically, I’m okay with that. Dryads tended to end up in the woods anyways to try and get the cover bonus and Treelords don’t benefit from cover.

[a74xhx]

5 hours ago, Aryann said:

I expected that faction updates will be more than 1 hero + endless spells and a scenery but seems to be the case at least for FEC, Skaven and Khorne. Probably it will be the same for Sylvaneth. What do you expect from a new Sylvaneth battletome? What kind of new allegiance abilities can we get or any at all? What new?

*Warscrolls updated to match Generals Handbook 2018.

*Rules for Ylthari's Guardians. Expecting them to be reasonably good, but realistically they won't fit into a tournament winning list.

*Three new endless spells that physically look as bad as the other Endless spells. One will be flat, long and thin. They will be fairly powerful and we'll see them used fairly often in games.

*New artwork.

I'm not expecting anything else.

No wyldwood model replacements. The scenery for the other factions isn't physically much of an improvement to what we already have.  Limiting faction is it'll always be large under detailed thick plastic made in China. You can't add more trees without it effecting how they play. So they will always look "bare" like they do now.

No new heroes.  I can only see that happening IF we get a Sylvaneth vs <someone> boxset. Maybe Nurgle - or is that too obvious a match. And if that happens we'll get one new 5 wound wizard on 32mm base.

No new allegiance abilities.

 

 

 

[Grimbok]

The Wildwoods need to go away. The need to buy at least 6 citadel woods is keeping new people away. And the transportation is a real issue. Furthermore they are a bad play experience to play with and against, fiddly and annoying. The rules for the woods are a mess. 

 

I hope they make one big tree like the nurgle tree, just taller, but about the same base size. They could buff sylvaneth and hurt enemies within a certain area. You could get one for free and spells could summon new ones, but about three trees would be more than enough, for normal games. 

 

The alpha bunkering is extremely boring and frustrating non- fun play experience, but if you don’t go that direction the army is quite weak, so many things are dependent on the woods. One can hardly deploy sylvaneth models outside of the allegiance, as they are so dependant on those woods. 

 

The they need to fix the warscrolls accordingly. Revenents need a complete overhaul. They are the martial class, the soldiers of the army. They don’t play like that at all. A tax for dreadwood or household, or just lurking, to teleport to empty objective. Elite aelf spirits? Not really. 

 

Treelords need to follow other monster boosts, like the ghorgon, 14 wounds and a less crippling damage table. Kurnoths need to be split into ranged and melee warscrolls, call the Kurnoth Stalkers and Hunters or something. 

 

A kurnoth leader and a revenant leader, with actual command abilities wound be a welcome addition. Revenants with bows would be cool. 

 

 

But fix the woods, thats the most important change...

 

 

 

Grimbok

[Justinbot]

As a newer player the woods were one of the biggest barriers to getting started and they are very clunky to play with. I'd love to have a terrain piece that relied on area of effect rules rather than models physically crossing and fighting on it.

[Aezeal]

9 hours ago, Almace038 said:

Thematically, I’m okay with that. Dryads tended to end up in the woods anyways to try and get the cover bonus and Treelords don’t benefit from cover.

The -1 to hit being wholly within would SEVERELY suck. Without it they aren't really worth their points, NOW we get it almost always, especially when on defense. Wholly within would make that happen way less.

[Almace038]

6 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

The -1 to hit being wholly within would SEVERELY suck. Without it they aren't really worth their points, NOW we get it almost always, especially when on defense. Wholly within would make that happen way less.

It would definitely be a huge nerf, no argument there, but I’d rather see changes to other elements of the army to make up for that nerf, because from a game ‘feel’ perspective it is a little strange that the woods can protect things that aren’t actually in the woods. But I do think that the trend of “wholly within” will eventually reach the woods one way or another, so I would like to snip it in the bud, at least in this conjecture stage.