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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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@Lanoss for the Gnrallroot list, 8 or 9 spell slots is good, but i think you are going to run out of viable things to cast. I would consider finding a way to get a few more (offensive) endless spells in there; Swords, Geminids and Pendulum spring to mind (although not sure what you can cut if you are attached to swarm and sisters to fit these in, maybe 10 dryads?). Also puts you in a better position if you take the first turn, then get double turned, which often happens to me!

 

More of a general question, iv'e never run Treesong before (prefer ToV on my Wych to boost unbinds and sprites) - i assume this is purely for the rouse effect? or do you foresee wood movement shenanigans as well? just curious.

 

 

Edited by JP1
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28 minutes ago, JP1 said:

@Lanoss for the Gnrallroot list, 8 or 9 spell slots is good, but i think you are going to run out of viable things to cast. I would consider finding a way to get a few more (offensive) endless spells in there; Swords, Geminids and Pendulum spring to mind (although not sure what you can cut if you are attached to swarm and sisters to fit these in, maybe 10 dryads?). Also puts you in a better position if you take the first turn, then get double turned, which often happens to me!

 

More of a general question, iv'e never run Treesong before (prefer ToV on my Wych to boost unbinds and sprites) - i assume this is purely for the rouse effect? or do you foresee wood movement shenanigans as well? just curious.

 

 

I have noticed this in my 9 spell (TLA, wych, wraith and allariele) list with only 3 hunters too and it's a reason I'm trying dropping gnarlroot.. however when you take more hunters (which is than an option) you'd love to have that spell back... and while I don't really need a 3th item (however nice it is) I DO like to have 2 items. I personally don't one drop my army in friendly games (which is basicly all I play) and like to deploy in reaction to opponent - having said that.. I really DO like to go first to be able to place forests and get troops on at least 50% of the objectives if possible. On the upside it means you don't need to get a wych and TLA, both of whom are not as needed anymore. 

I'm currently looking a trying a list with Alarielle, Drycha, 2 wraiths at least 1 unit of 20 dryads.. then fill to min battleline with dryads and maybe 5 revenants and get in as much hunters as possible and maybe a few endless spells.

Still looking at what batallion might be viable to get a 2nd item (I NEED ranu's - or possibly an acorn)

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Messing about with a Harvestboon list that doesn't spam Dryads and ended up with this.  It's light on bodies (47 models!), and I wonder if taking 1000 points in two models is suicidal, even if both of them are going to hit hard. Going to need to make sure I get them both up front and hitting ASAP, but getting Durthu upfield is going to be tricky (well, with perfect wood placing and then a teleport I just need a 7 for a charge, which can have a reroll).

Alternatively, I think it might be better loosing the Kurnoths to gain 20 dryads and an extra 30 points towards a better endless spell.

 

  • Allegiance: Sylvaneth - Mortal Realm: Ghyran
  • LEADERS
  • Branchwraith (80) - Artefact : Ranu's Lamentiri - Deepwood Spell : The Dwellers Below   (not that the Deepwood spell will ever get used)
  • Branchwraith (80) - Artefact : Acorn of the Ages - Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing
  • Alarielle the Everqueen (600) - Deepwood Spell : Regrowth    (or maybe throne of vines?)
  • Spirit of Durthu (380) - General - Command Trait : Warsinger - Artefact : Ghyrstrike
  • UNITS
  • 20 x Dryads (200)
  • 10 x Dryads (100)
  • 10 x Dryads (100)
  • 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) -Greatswords
  • BATTALIONS
  • Harvestboon Wargrove (100)  Forest Folk (140)
  • ENDLESS SPELLS
  • Soulsnare Shackles (20)     (or anything else for 20points)
  • TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 93 LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 3/3 ALLIES: 0/400

 

Did a similar list for Gnarlroot.... with even fewer models (35!). I'd let Alarielle summon a third set of Kurnoths and take heavy advantage of the resurrection spell to keep all 9 on the board. Reaping on the TLA as I want to get him upfront and into melee. Oaken Armour instead of Ghyrstrike because, unlike Durthu, I think the trick is to maximise his life rather than boost hitting.

Again maybe drop one set of Kurnoths for more battleline and spells, but I wanted to maximise my Kurnoth loadout.

  • Allegiance: Sylvaneth - Mortal Realm: Ghyran
  • LEADERS
  • Treelord Ancient (300) - General - Command Trait : Gnarled Warrior - Artefact : The Oaken Armour - Deepwood Spell : The Reaping  (or maybe regrowth)
  • Branchwych (80) - Artefact : Acorn of the Ages - Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing
  • Branchwraith (80) - Artefact : Ranu's Lamentiri - Deepwood Spell : The Dwellers Below
  • Alarielle the Everqueen (600) - Deepwood Spell : Throne of Vines (or maybe regrowth)
  • UNITS
  • 10 x Dryads (100)
  • 10 x Dryads (100)
  • 5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
  • 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)-Greatswords
  • 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)-Greatswords
  • BATTALIONS
  • Gnarlroot Wargrove (130) Household (100)
  • ENDLESS SPELLS
  • Some endless spell for 30 points, not sure which one
  •  TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 93 LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 3/3 ALLIES: 0/400
     
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Hello!

I only play nighthaunt, but my friend wants to start playing more Age of Sigmar. He had begun collecting a wood elf army in Warhammer Fantasy, but I hear that wanderers are not very good. I want to make a semi-competitive/competitive list that will have a good chance against my nighthaunt (one of the reasons he doesn't play much is that he has always played GA:Order with wanderers and dryads, and has never won a game. We plan to proxy models, but  I like the idea of the list being based off of the Start Collecting! box. Would a Gnarlroot list like this one be a good starting place?

On 11/22/2018 at 6:38 PM, Lanoss said:

451794A6-BACC-43A3-8D7A-C9E160A7EE9B.jpeg.4655a6e5bffcd400ee0f70c92b043d8f.jpeg

What basic strategy should he know as he is just beginning Sylvaneth?

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@JP1 I’ve since decided to run the General Branchwych with Treesong - because with Warsinger he is likely to be up near the Hunters and Dryads to give them +1” to their charge. So if he’s around a big combat near the woods the activation of the woods will be good. Or wood surfing shenanigans haha And yes I feel another ESpell would be good but perhaps I’d have to drop a Branchwraith for that? That last Branchwraith would have Throne of Vines to boost dryad summoning. **If Gnarlroot didn’t tax us on a Branchwych I’d only have the 2 Branchwraiths **

@HiveFleetCerberus I’m yet to practice with this list yet but once I do I’ll post my findings. My initial thoughts is to go first, drop all my woods down with my casters, move a big unit of dryads on an objective or in my opponents way, buff them with the Sisters, teleport the Hunters to an important position and just whether the tide and hit back just as hard

But I’ll let you know once I’ve had a few games

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We played Shifting Objectives - 3 Objectives in the middle. Lengthway board. 

He deployed on his line. I dropped on mine with the intent to drop woods on the objectives and sit dryads on them. 

I did that. Got all spells and whatnot off. Score 5pts. 

His turn. He failed  to get Cogs off (not that he needed it) and did get Mindrazor off. He also got all his witch brews and prayers off. 

He then moved everything up. Only managed to successfully get 2 units into combat - 20 blood sisters and 10 SS - on the right flank into my 30 dryads. Even with -1 to hit and my dryads with a 3+ rerolling 1s save. He still did 34 damage and the unit was gone. 

He then double turned me. It was game over. 

I’m now considering a slightly different list but I’ll play a few more games with the Sisters of the Thorn before I change it

EC3C9572-56FD-4709-A363-24A9F282231D.jpeg.8f4e2ac7f8d917bb384c74635c8f09a2.jpeg

Im not sure if it’ll fair as well as other builds. So if there are any Gnarlroot players out there, feel free to critique 

Edited by Lanoss
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I don't think lifeswarm is worth it in a list which already has verdant and regrowth. (In general I think it's a spell sylvaneth can ignore, I prefer some damage endless spells for some more wounds).

I really think Alarielle brings a lot for our army though I admit getting more hunters for her might be a good idea (probably the only units worth trading her for).

Probably a good move to drop the sisters IMHO

 

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So I had a amazing time at BOBO and I learned SO much. What I really took away from the weekend was - 

A) There is currently a loooot of bodies on the table. 

B) My army didn't have enough bodies 

I want to try a new wargrove with each major so next up I want to try Harvestboon Wargrove! First iteration of the list will be 

Alarielle - Throne of Vines
Wraith - Warsinger, Acorn, Verdant Blessing
Wraith - Ranus, Blessing 
Drycha - Regrowth 

30 Dryads
30 Dryads
10 Dryads

Harvestboon, Forest Folk

Cogs, Shackles.

I think Drycha's squirmlings are in a really good place with the limited shooting meta and the big bodies, they can go through a unit. I definitely needed more Dryads then 30, so I will summon up to 80 turn one and potential of 100 with Alarielle if needed. 

Edited by AaronWIlson
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@AaronWIlson love the  new list Aaron, and i completely agree about Drycha in the current meta (although i am currently a bit biased due to getting repeatedly schooled by ethereal hordes). I also like Dwellers spell for the same reason (those 30 grimgasts or 40 skeletons love it).

Richie's game from the weekend is definitely worth a watch (on the HonestWargamer twitch/youtube) for all things Harvestboon, as i guess you were busy playing! he was very unlucky not to win after such great play, and i think he would have taken the tournament if he had.

Eitherway, feels like a good time to be Sylvaneth and couldnt agree more about getting 80-100 dryads on the table. Sadly i think Hunters time to shine is over, and was amusing to see Durthu taking a repeated hammering this weekend.

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Good time for Sylvaneth? I think not. Unless you wan't to spam the same warscroll, playing defensive board control grind. I see only three different warscrolls used competetively, Alarielle (undercosted), Branchwych (summon dryads) and dryads (cheap, and good battalions)...

Boring and unfortunate. Sylvaneth isn't that good in my casual meta (can't compete with free summoning armies). I could buy and paint more dryads, except they are the oldest and worst models in the whole range. Branchwraiths are also crappy old finecast models. 

 

Durthu is very swingy, but ok I suppose, maybe a bit overcosted (20 points).

Drycha is too expensive by a lot (but ok in the meta maybe)

Kurnoths are a tad overpriced, bows by a lot. 

Tree revenants and spite revenants need a warscroll change actually.

Branchwych..ehhh. Pretty sucky compared to Branchwraith.

Treelords. Ancient is way overcosted. Don't know about the normal one. 

So that leaves Alarielle undercosted, dryads don't need that max discount, and branchwraiths are pretty good, might be sligtly on the cheap side.
No wonder all tournament armies look the same. 

This book is getting old, and it shows...there is no way to make a competitive army without spamming dryads. A shame really.

 

Grimbok

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13 hours ago, Grimbok said:

This book is getting old, and it shows...there is no way to make a competitive army without spamming dryads. A shame really.

Grimbok

Alarielle (Throne of Vines or Treesong)

Durthu (Gnarled Warrior & Oaken armor)

TLA (Moonstone, Regrowth)

Branchwych (but you can drop her for something else) (Throne of Vines as she won't move and you want to dispell with +d3 or Treesong, depending what you took on Alarielle)

Branchwraith (Ranu's Lamentiri, Verdant blessing)

Branchwraith (Regrowth)

4* Spite Revenants

Outcasts & Dreadwood battalion

 

*At first turn, as you choose to have the first turn vs non shooting army you have:

Durthu teleporting at 6"+ move

Alarielle moving 16" before the battle even begins and then moving 16" again. Summoning 3 Kurnoth Hunters in the wyldwoods and they will have a charge distance of 9" minus 2d6 (from treesong).

TLA tping at 4" in movement phase

Vs shooty army, you let them play first with no shooting at more than 12" and then you can double turn potentially.

If the opponent doesn't have a very strong screening (and even then you can deal with it with spells and shoots), you will wreck him :o

So far, at damaging I really only struggled vs a mortal heavy Tzeentch list with Kairos, LoC, Gaunt Summoner (and what do you want to do vs someone who always does 4+ mortal wounds per spell anyway :/ ) and stuff on Shifting objectives (he deployed his monsters at the very end of the table, and screening with his brimstones and pinks): But still won (close, but won) because he lets me scoring the objectives.
And Nagash

Edited by Alezya
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14 hours ago, Grimbok said:

Good time for Sylvaneth? I think not. Unless you wan't to spam the same warscroll, playing defensive board control grind. I see only three different warscrolls used competetively, Alarielle (undercosted), Branchwych (summon dryads) and dryads (cheap, and good battalions)...

Boring and unfortunate. Sylvaneth isn't that good in my casual meta (can't compete with free summoning armies). I could buy and paint more dryads, except they are the oldest and worst models in the whole range. Branchwraiths are also crappy old finecast models. 

 

Durthu is very swingy, but ok I suppose, maybe a bit overcosted (20 points).

Drycha is too expensive by a lot (but ok in the meta maybe)

Kurnoths are a tad overpriced, bows by a lot. 

Tree revenants and spite revenants need a warscroll change actually.

Branchwych..ehhh. Pretty sucky compared to Branchwraith.

Treelords. Ancient is way overcosted. Don't know about the normal one. 

So that leaves Alarielle undercosted, dryads don't need that max discount, and branchwraiths are pretty good, might be sligtly on the cheap side.
No wonder all tournament armies look the same. 

This book is getting old, and it shows...there is no way to make a competitive army without spamming dryads. A shame really.

 

Grimbok

How very negative. There were a lot of Sylvaneth armies at Chrimbobo, and have been quite a few kicking around. Whilst you're right, the top ones do revolve around Alarielle and Dryads, there are a lot of solid performances with less of them. Of the Sylvaneth over the weekend, I think the majority of us went 3-2, with a wide range of different lists and different battalions (Harvestboon, Gnarlroot and Winterleaf). 

The idea that there is "no way to make a competitive army without spamming dryads" is completely wrong. I know some players have done very well with Dreadwood (even if I think it's pants). That's very different from back in AoS 1, when almost every list you came up against was Gnarlroot in some format, normally the only thing changing was the amount of Hunters. 

I think it's a great time to play Sylvaneth. I know a lot of other factions look on us enviously - and quite a lot of players say that Sylvaneth is the standard that GW should aim for with their other factions. 

"

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Yeah I personally disagree as well, there were so much variation in the lists at the weekend. I had 12 Hunters in Gnarlroot, Tom had a bunch of endless spells with a TLA & Durthu in Gnarlroot, LHW has his winterleaf with a phoenix, Ritchie had harvestboon with Durthu etc. I think it's a fantastic time for the book, our big batallions are nearly all fantastic. 

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16 hours ago, JP1 said:

@AaronWIlson to love the  new list Aaron, and i completely agree about Drycha in the current meta (although i am currently a bit biased due to getting repeatedly schooled by ethereal hordes). I also like Dwellers spell for the same reason (those 30 grimgasts or 40 skeletons love it).

Richie's game from the weekend is definitely worth a watch (on the HonestWargamer twitch/youtube) for all things Harvestboon, as i guess you were busy playing! he was very unlucky not to win after such great play, and i think he would have taken the tournament if he had.

Eitherway, feels like a good time to be Sylvaneth and couldnt agree more about getting 80-100 dryads on the table. Sadly i think Hunters time to shine is over, and was amusing to see Durthu taking a repeated hammering this weekend.

Thanks mate, think it's a good baseline. I could see my self potentially dropping drycha & shackles for 3 scythes and 10 more dryads if I feel she underperforms / doesn't bring any real value but from what I've seen from my games in nearly all of AoS2, lots of bodies on the board is in paired with next to no real shooting. 

Edited by AaronWIlson
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16 hours ago, Grimbok said:

 [...]

Durthu is very swingy, but ok I suppose, maybe a bit overcosted (20 points).

Drycha is too expensive by a lot (but ok in the meta maybe)

Kurnoths are a tad overpriced, bows by a lot. 

Tree revenants and spite revenants need a warscroll change actually.

Branchwych..ehhh. Pretty sucky compared to Branchwraith.

Treelords. Ancient is way overcosted. Don't know about the normal one. 

So that leaves Alarielle undercosted, dryads don't need that max discount, and branchwraiths are pretty good, might be sligtly on the cheap side.
No wonder all tournament armies look the same. 

This book is getting old, and it shows...there is no way to make a competitive army without spamming dryads. A shame really.

 

Grimbok

I do not see how a Spirit of Durthu is "very swingy" with a Gyrstrike attached to him. In my opinion this combination represents one of the most reliable sources of damage in the game (reliable MW spam being better, though). 

I do not see how tree revenants need a new warscroll. They are a 80 points battleline filling unit that can come in very handy in certain missions. Additionally, in Household, they can punish a strung out horde unit (not saying it happens a lot, but the opponent has to take care).

To be honest, I do not think that Alarielle is undercosted (at least not by a lot). Substracting the Dryads or Kurnoths she summons, she is at 400 points. I would add a little bit on top of it, since a "normally" bought and deployed unit has more freedom of movement (because of Navigate Realmroots). Her ranged attack is unreliable, her melee damage is okay, but also pretty unreliable in my opinion. She is very squishy when faced with a dedicated melee unit and it is a lot of work to screen her because of her huge base. I did not really play against ranged-heavy armies so far but I imagine her to be pretty killable there as well. 4 Ballistae + Ordinator at short range will bring her down to 4 wounds on average. The problem I am seeing is that she is the one thing being visible behind the screen of Wyldwoods (due to being a flyer). In my view her really strong parts are mobility and triple spell casting/unbinding. But all things considered, she is a jack of all trades, which is not the best thing to have in every situation.

I am a newer player (have around 20 games under my belt), so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I wonder if you, @Grimbok, are a very experienced player to cast such a harsh judgement on Sylvaneth. Maybe you just did not experiment enough with alternative builds? I am about to try out what Winterleaf/Harvestboon have to offer, but until now I only played Dreadwood and found it to be a very effective build (and quite the opposite of "defensive and dryad spamming"). On my first tournament last weekend I was able to get 2nd place with the same Dreadwood - playing, amongst other things, against Idoneth Deepkin, Nurgle and Nighthaunt (winning against all three to different degrees). I realize one tournament is no proof for something being effective on a larger scale, but it shows that you can have sucess with something else than dryad spam.

Finally, I really wonder why you are so salty (no offense).

Edited by Isotop
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4 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

Yeah I personally disagree as well, there were so much variation in the lists at the weekend. I had 12 Hunters in Gnarlroot, Tom had a bunch of endless spells with a TLA & Durthu in Gnarlroot, LHW has his winterleaf with a phoenix, Ritchie had harvestboon with Durthu etc. I think it's a fantastic time for the book, our big batallions are nearly all fantastic.  

Yes - all five Sylvaneth lists were different.  Even the three Gnarlroot lists were pretty different - mine was the only one with Alarielle, Tom's the only one with Big D, Aarons went with lots of Hunters. 

The one fair point is that dryad spam is currently the strongest option.  But you can certainly run a decently competitive list without going down that route. 

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16 minutes ago, Jak Shadow said:

Yes - all five Sylvaneth lists were different.  Even the three Gnarlroot lists were pretty different - mine was the only one with Alarielle, Tom's the only one with Big D, Aarons went with lots of Hunters. 

The one fair point is that dryad spam is currently the strongest option.  But you can certainly run a decently competitive list without going down that route. 

Yeah I can only agree with that, I think what really makes our dryad heavy lists very strong (because they're more typically run in Harvestboon or Winterleaf) is two big factors - 

1) We can nearly always guarantee deciding first / second, there really isn't many other one drops if any right now .

2) Forest Folk lets you totally re-deploy your 70/80 dryads, which is just out of this world. Being able to deploy in one way, then totally switch up to play only on 4 tiles, you can grab all the objectives and pin a opponent in, you can alpha hard with things like cogs and warsinger. The way the Dryads heavy lists work right now massively suit a low shooting horde meta, which also allows things like Alarielle sign as damn she's easy to kill. 

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I also agree harvest boon is awesome!  I'm running without Allarialle though as I wanted a bit more punch with some more hunters.  Dyrads really do pull their weight, that -1 to hit is just great.  

All that being said I agree Sylveneth have a ton to choose from right now, they can be frustrating because most losses stem from a mistake that the Sylveneth player makes rather than the opponent.  I find that I'm playing most of my games against myself.

 

This is what I've been running 

Durthu

Branchwraithx3

30 Dyrads x2

10 dyrads 

6 hunters with scythes 

harvest boon/forestfolk

cogs

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38 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Yeah I can only agree with that, I think what really makes our dryad heavy lists very strong (because they're more typically run in Harvestboon or Winterleaf) is two big factors - 

1) We can nearly always guarantee deciding first / second, there really isn't many other one drops if any right now .

2) Forest Folk lets you totally re-deploy your 70/80 dryads, which is just out of this world. Being able to deploy in one way, then totally switch up to play only on 4 tiles, you can grab all the objectives and pin a opponent in, you can alpha hard with things like cogs and warsinger. The way the Dryads heavy lists work right now massively suit a low shooting horde meta, which also allows things like Alarielle sign as damn she's easy to kill. 

Think the beauty of all the lists is you can have say 3 winterleaf armies and all can be slightly different depending on what sort of style the player has and also if they like particularly like a model . 

Hence why think we are not in a poor state

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@Twh30 Agreed - although i would love to know what you guys would run in the Winterleaf list if the Phoenix gets a (much needed) points increase in GHB19?

LHW, i know you are tied to the Phoenix for deeply narrative reasons, but any ideas what you'd switch to as your order unit, if any?

Edited by JP1
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