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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

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13 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I used to take 3 scythes/swords and 3 bows pre 2.0. In 2.0 I use 3 swords (only 3 hunters in the list). 

What I ask myself is, if scythes are still the best way to go...Even in 1.0 Scythes were not STRICTLY better, but only better in the majority of situations.

Now that we have Nighthaunt and Ethereal Amulets, I do not know if Scythes are still the best way to go, if you do not know who you are facing upfront.

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14 minutes ago, Craze said:

What I ask myself is, if scythes are still the best way to go...Even in 1.0 Scythes were not STRICTLY better, but only better in the majority of situations.

Now that we have Nighthaunt and Ethereal Amulets, I do not know if Scythes are still the best way to go, if you do not know who you are facing upfront.

I didn't think that scythes where better in 1.0. They weren't even better in the majority of situations (only against very very rare high saves) but that is what people took them for anyway. It is KNOWN when swords and scythes are better against which saves and then scythes have a range advantage. For myself: I play a lot against lower save armies and in my 2K gnarlroot build I have other sources of damage against high saves (magic, alarielle, TLA, TL) so I'm going swords for now.

 

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So I just secured my self a ticket to the christmas BOBO event, it'll be my first ever AoS event so I'm pretty pumped! Do people think we 100% need Alarielle to be competitive?

I really think Gnarlroot is going to be very strong in a meta were realm will be used. That extra spell slot for wizards really open ups your spells, it also allows you to get the best 4 spells in there (Reaping, Blessing, Regrowth & Dwellers) as well as all the signature spells. I really like the below list (yet to test it but on paper I like it ALOT)

Treelord Ancient
Artefact - Ethereal Amulet
Trait - Gift of Gyhyran
Deepword Lore - The Reaping
Drycha
Deepword Lore - Dwellers Below
Branchwraith
Artefact - Ranus Lamentiri
Deepword Lore - Verdant Blessing
Branchwych
Deepword Lore - Regrowth
Artefact - Acorn of the Ages

Dryads (30)
Tree Revenants (5)
Tree Revenants (5)
Kurnoth Hunters (6) - Scythes
Kurnoth Hunters (3) - Bows

Household Batallion
Gnarlroot Wargrove

I really like the list on paper. The anncient being a 4+ ingoring rend re-rolliings 1s and potentially healing D3 + D6 a turn seems super potent. You have a lot of potential for wyldwoods (potentially could see 4 on the table turn one). The double tree revenants give you really solid scenario options, and the sycthe hunters, dycha and ancient are solid bully units.

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I don't think Alarielle is needed, she certainly has vulnerabilities (in a double turn getting 6x d6 MW from 3 slaughter priests)… but she's strong: her spell is an awesome character or high armor sniper. Her healing is good, the summon is good. Her damage output usually isn't all that but it's certainly not bad.#

I personally DON'T think dwellers is a really good spell and while the reaping should be good I've had trouble actually doing much damage with it on a wych , I think I might try a circlet/reaping TLA general with gnarled warrior myself one of these days (next to alarielle though so I can have some extra healing there) after I try it a few last times against less magic resistant armies (last opponents being Tzeentsch and gorepilgrims).

I think endless spells are very good options for damage dealing especially in gnarlroot. I've been happy with my pendulum and geminids damage dealing (just target a few clustered units, preferably characters behind troops and say the geminids move a small circle just going over a few bases). 

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I appreciate those comments, you certainly probably know more then me about the army. Do you think Gnarlroot can work, if so do you think it's woth me dropping the hunters with bows for some endless spells?

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So I've been mucking about with lists and I've come up with this one which features every single unit which really got my attention into Sylvaneth and would look awesome and be fun to play on the tabletop.

 

Idea is simple, march forward and beat face with angry trees and sticks, whilst healing the big guys and summoning more Dryads. Kurnoth hunters are there to troubleshoot (heh) issues at range and hold the line if need be.

 

I'd love to hear some thoughts and C+C welcome!

 

Also a quick question - regarding Sylvaneth wyldwoods, it says 1-3 on the warscroll but what size do players tend to run both casual and competitive? I want to make some cool ones but I also don't want my opponents to feel suffocated and annoyed at how much of the table I take up.

TreesaremarchingtoWAR.pdf

 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gift of Ghyran
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines

Battleline
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
10 x Dryads (100)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows

Behemoths
Treelord (240)
Treelord (240)
Treelord (240)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

Edited by Girgutz StormStompa

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4 hours ago, Girgutz StormStompa said:

Behemoths
Treelord (240)
Treelord (240)
Treelord (240)

I am genuinely interested to see if you find 3 Treelords effective.    I wish the Lords of the Clan gave them better bonuses.  I miss the classic Treelord as a threat on the table.  Keep us/me posted :)

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6 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

I appreciate those comments, you certainly probably know more then me about the army. Do you think Gnarlroot can work, if so do you think it's woth me dropping the hunters with bows for some endless spells?

I would not say I know more about the army than anyone. Personally I must say I think the appeal of your list above my own Gnarlroot list (with Alarielle) are your tons of hunters. I'd personally sooner cut 10 dryads for some endless spells than those hunters.. they are beasts. I would consider going all melee hunters: what is it you want your bow hunters to do and do you think 3 of them will be able to do it?

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37 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I am genuinely interested to see if you find 3 Treelords effective.    I wish the Lords of the Clan gave them better bonuses.  I miss the classic Treelord as a threat on the table.  Keep us/me posted :)

I must say I'm not convinced about that list at all.. I think I'd try to remove the TLA and a TL for Alarielle (probably need to cut another 10 dryads too).. to keep that big creature vibe and several hunters (I'd make them melee though) and have them healed by alarielle. 

 

5 hours ago, Girgutz StormStompa said:

Also a quick question - regarding Sylvaneth wyldwoods, it says 1-3 on the warscroll but what size do players tend to run both casual and competitive? I want to make some cool ones but I also don't want my opponents to feel suffocated and annoyed at how much of the table I take up.

TreesaremarchingtoWAR.pdf

 

In my experience my opponents suffocate my trees... I can usually place a 2 base forest near the middle somewhere... but after that I'm lucky if I can place another 2 single base forests during the game. Have no mercy when placing forests I'd say. If you CANNOT place a 2 base forest at the start of the game I'd just demand terrain gets moved (hasn't been needed yet I'll admit). The problem is that the TLA ability needs 3" room around it which makes that ability while easiest available very unreliable for placing forests. Often when I roll a 4+ I just can't place even a single forest base.


 

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2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I must say I'm not convinced about that list at all.. I think I'd try to remove the TLA and a TL for Alarielle (probably need to cut another 10 dryads too).. to keep that big creature vibe and several hunters (I'd make them melee though) and have them healed by alarielle. 

 

May I ask about why specifically about the TL? I think they're fantastic output and resilience for their price and who doesn't love a potential -1 to hit in close combat?

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9 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

Treelord Ancient
Artefact - Ethereal Amulet
Trait - Gift of Gyhyran
Deepword Lore - The Reaping
Drycha
Deepword Lore - Dwellers Below
Branchwraith
Artefact - Ranus Lamentiri
Deepword Lore - Verdant Blessing
Branchwych
Deepword Lore - Regrowth
Artefact - Acorn of the Ages

Dryads (30)
Tree Revenants (5)
Tree Revenants (5)
Kurnoth Hunters (6) - Scythes
Kurnoth Hunters (3) - Bows

Household Batallion
Gnarlroot Wargrove

Yeah that's one of the top "template lists" for Gnarlroot in GHB18, at least if you want to maintain the one drop.

I think the above version, though, has room for improvement, or at least here's some things to consider: 

1. Since the above doesn't have Cogs, Warsinger is valuable on Ancient to give you the potential for 8+ charges (w/ command point RR) on your teleports. The +1 charge combined w/ a RR is significant for greater charge-reliability. At the same time, Gift of Ghyran isn't a poor choice.

2. Personally I'd skip The Reaping and Dwellers Below, take Regrowth for both Ancient and Drycha (giving you greater board flexibility, i.e. you don't have to keep them <> 18" of each other, and if one dies, you'll still have Regrowth), and go with one of the following for the Branchwraith and Branchwych:

A:

  • Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Verdant Blessing
  • Branchwych - Acorn of the Ages + Throne of Vines

B:

  • Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Throne of Vines
  • Branchwych - Acorn of the Ages + Verdant Blessing

Option A makes Verdant Blessing a lot more reliable, while still giving +1 to cast other spells, especially Roused to Wrath for summoning Dryads, turning it into 6+ (or 5+ with Arcane). And by giving Throne of Vines to the Branchwych, she can focus on replenishing Kurnoth Hunters et al. w/ +D3 to cast on Verdurous Harmony, as well as potentially helping w/ unbinds, since the +D3 applies to unbinding as well. Of course, the +D3 goes away if she moves.

Option B provides a less-reliable Verdant Blessing and puts more focus on the Branchwraith, but if you want to optimize casting Roused to Wrath or Verdurous Harmony, go this route. You'll be casting Throne of Vines on 3+ (or 2+ w/ Arcane), and then have +1 and +D3 for casting Roused to Wrath or Verdurous Harmony.

If the list had Cogs, I'd be more tempted by option B, since the Branchwraith could cast three spells. In general, though, option A is the better route IMO.

3. You may want to test the 1x6 Scythes in scenarios w/ a lot of objectives, like A Better Part of Valour, Scorched Earth, and Focal Points. While the single activation can be invaluable, the greater board presence/flexibility of 2x3 Scythes has been more consistently relevant in my experience. 

4. I think there's a strong argument for running 1x3 Swords over 1x3 Bows.

Good luck!

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5 hours ago, Girgutz StormStompa said:

May I ask about why specifically about the TL? I think they're fantastic output and resilience for their price and who doesn't love a potential -1 to hit in close combat?

No it's about the list as a whole. I think in general hunters are probably better than TL, so IF you want to go with treelords I'd certainly take alarielle to make sure they keep high wounds (TL as a monster has a rather sharp drop of in damage output in comparison to newer monsters I think). Also Alarielle can summon one of them ofc which makes it thematic.  The TLA's command ability has been severely nerved and mystic shield does the same now so it's not as much as a reason to take him as last year. Also: AFTER you deduct the points from a TL from Alarielle (chances she's dead first turn, when you should use this ASAP) she's not THAT much more expensive than a TLA.. but if you compare them the difference is pretty big (3 spells for her with a very very good warscroll spell), 3 dispels, higher combat damage, more wounds AND the already mentioned healing everywhere.

Also: I'm not convinced about bow hunters and I'm not sure what 3 of them are going to accomplish.

Quote

 

 

A:

  • Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Verdant Blessing
  • Branchwych - Acorn of the Ages + Throne of Vines 

 

I like the idea of

  • Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Verdant Blessing
  • Branchwych - Circlet / Reaping

But I have to try it against some less annoying opponents than my latest matches. In between some dryads in the centre of the table the wych should be able to do some damage with her spells... And considering the often limited areas for forest bases I think acorn and verdant blessing might be a bit overkill. The thing about option B is that you'd often need to have both casters together to place the dryads in a summoned wood (or keep the wych near your nr 1 forest but if it's placed in the middle it's often filled with a unit of dryads all ready and enemies might arrive there so you can't fit 10 of them in the forest but outside 9" of enemy)

I agree 100% with point 3 and 4 btw. Personally I'd even go 1x3 scythes and 2x3 swords.

Edited by Aezeal

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On 8/19/2018 at 4:22 PM, IndigoGirls said:

I've been doing the same thing this whole time. However, I'm starting to doubt myself. Spending 80pts (4% of your army value) to ensure an artifact bearer might not be the right choice.

I'm glad to hear that my original opinion on the matter is echoed by others. Lately, I've been thinking up lists that can't make use of all the artifacts I have access to so I think part of me is trying to justify those lists against my opinion that everything I'm given through battalion choices should be used.

Mostly I spend the battalion points for the option of single drop, or as near it as I can get. I very much prefer to have my choice of turns in the first round. I'll take first if i want to alpha-strike or hard bunker on an objective, or second if I'm facing a gunline or something similar. The fact that battalions are tied to command points and artifacts is really more of a bonus in my mind, one which I'll try to take advantage of as long as it doesn't mean handicapping my lists effectiveness.  

4% of my army's total points for practically guaranteeing first turn + command point + an artifact is money well spent in my book. 

Edited by Mirage8112
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7 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Mostly I spend the battalion points for the option of single drop, or as near it as I can get. I very much prefer to have my choice of turns in the first round. I'll take first if i want to alpha-strike or hard bunker on an objective, or second if I'm facing a gunline or something similar. The fact that battalions are tied to command points and artifacts is really more of a bonus in my mind, one which I'll try to take advantage of as long as it doesn't mean handicapping my lists effectiveness.  

4% of my army's total points for practically guaranteeing first turn + command point + an artifact is money well spent in my book. 

A wargrove is quite a bit more than 4% of your army though... mine are mostly 10% (excluding taxes).. and it also means you can't react very well to your opponents deployment. I think wargroves are priced well at their current point.. you really need to include their bonus, artifacts and the lower drop in your strategy to make them worth it... otherwise another unit of Kurnoths is a more straightforward problem solver for the points.

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19 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Yeah that's one of the top "template lists" for Gnarlroot in GHB18, at least if you want to maintain the one drop.

I think the above version, though, has room for improvement, or at least here's some things to consider: 

1. Since the above doesn't have Cogs, Warsinger is valuable on Ancient to give you the potential for 8+ charges (w/ command point RR) on your teleports. The +1 charge combined w/ a RR is significant for greater charge-reliability. At the same time, Gift of Ghyran isn't a poor choice.

2. Personally I'd skip The Reaping and Dwellers Below, take Regrowth for both Ancient and Drycha (giving you greater board flexibility, i.e. you don't have to keep them <> 18" of each other, and if one dies, you'll still have Regrowth), and go with one of the following for the Branchwraith and Branchwych:

A:

  • Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Verdant Blessing
  • Branchwych - Acorn of the Ages + Throne of Vines

B:

  • Branchwraith - Ranu's Lamentiri + Throne of Vines
  • Branchwych - Acorn of the Ages + Verdant Blessing

Option A makes Verdant Blessing a lot more reliable, while still giving +1 to cast other spells, especially Roused to Wrath for summoning Dryads, turning it into 6+ (or 5+ with Arcane). And by giving Throne of Vines to the Branchwych, she can focus on replenishing Kurnoth Hunters et al. w/ +D3 to cast on Verdurous Harmony, as well as potentially helping w/ unbinds, since the +D3 applies to unbinding as well. Of course, the +D3 goes away if she moves.

Option B provides a less-reliable Verdant Blessing and puts more focus on the Branchwraith, but if you want to optimize casting Roused to Wrath or Verdurous Harmony, go this route. You'll be casting Throne of Vines on 3+ (or 2+ w/ Arcane), and then have +1 and +D3 for casting Roused to Wrath or Verdurous Harmony.

If the list had Cogs, I'd be more tempted by option B, since the Branchwraith could cast three spells. In general, though, option A is the better route IMO.

3. You may want to test the 1x6 Scythes in scenarios w/ a lot of objectives, like A Better Part of Valour, Scorched Earth, and Focal Points. While the single activation can be invaluable, the greater board presence/flexibility of 2x3 Scythes has been more consistently relevant in my experience. 

4. I think there's a strong argument for running 1x3 Swords over 1x3 Bows.

Good luck!

Thanks for your help, really appreciate all those comments. I have made the changes 1/2. I'm going to keep them i na unit of 6 for now but I will try them 2 x3 down the road. I'll keep you all updated with test games, first one is on sunday :)

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Headed to Siegeworld tomorrow (my first AoS2 event!) for three 2K games on Sat and three at 1K on Sun. 

Here's the list. Not the best, but wanted to try out some things, especially no one-drop, no Bows, 1x10 TRevs, and Flitterfuries.

So if I go 0-3, it's all the list's damn fault...of course. ?

  • Spirit of Durthu
    • General
    • Warsinger
    • Ethereal Amulet
  • Drycha Hamadreth
    • Regrowth
    • Colony of Flitterfuries
  • Branchwraith
    • Acorn of the Ages
    • Regrowth
  • Branchwraith
    • Verdant Blessing
  • 20 Dryads
  • 10 Dryads
  • 10 Tree-Revenants
  • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
  • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
  • 3 Kurnoth Swords
  • Free Spirits Battalion
Edited by scrubyandwells
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8 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:
  • Spirit of Durthu
    • General
    • Warsinger
    • Ethereal Amulet
  • Drycha Hamadreth
    • Regrowth
    • Colony of Flitterfuries
  • Branchwraith
    • Acorn of the Ages
    • Regrowth
  • Branchwraith
    • Verdant Blessing
  • 20 Dryads
  • 10 Dryads
  • 10 Tree-Revenants
  • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
  • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
  • 3 Kurnoth Swords
  • Free Spirits Battalion

One variation considered:

  • Put Verdant Blessing on Branchwraith with Acorn of the Ages, and Throne of Vines on the other Branchwraith;
  • Deploy Throne of Vines Branchwraith in a spot where she can stay put, ideally out of unbind range;
  • Cast Throne of Vines, with intention to summon Dryads in succeeding turns with the +D3 to cast (and potentially +D3 to unbind if any enemy Wizards have moved within unbind range).
Edited by scrubyandwells

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Are you set on the acorn? Wouldn't a Ranu's Lamenteri on the Verdant blessing wraith have almost the same reliability for a forest on the first turn but a lot more added use in later turns?

Why the Durthu and 3 more hunters and not an Alarielle who summons a TL? I really think that in flexibility Alarielle is way stronger due to added magic (3 cast and a damn strong spell), dispel, flying, healing .. well you know it all (I think she'll get a sharp points increase next year if rules are the same).

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17 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Are you set on the acorn? Wouldn't a Ranu's Lamenteri on the Verdant blessing wraith have almost the same reliability for a forest on the first turn but a lot more added use in later turns?

Why the Durthu and 3 more hunters and not an Alarielle who summons a TL? I really think that in flexibility Alarielle is way stronger due to added magic (3 cast and a damn strong spell), dispel, flying, healing .. well you know it all (I think she'll get a sharp points increase next year if rules are the same).

After hundreds of games, I've rolled snake eyes or 3 on Ranu's + Verdant enough that I'm leery to gamble again. It shouldn't fail, but it can. Definitely appreciate why folks prefer it, though.

Also like the potential to get two woods out round 1 re: Acorn + Verdant and keeping caster out of unbind range.

First version of the list had Acorn on one BW and Ranu's + Verdant on the other, but wanting to try out Ethereal Amulet on Durthu. 

Unfortunately don't have Alarielle quite yet -- should have her ready to go by October.

Edited by scrubyandwells

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1 hour ago, scrubyandwells said:
  • Spirit of Durthu
    • General
    • Warsinger
    • Ethereal Amulet
  • Drycha Hamadreth
    • Regrowth
    • Colony of Flitterfuries
  • Branchwraith
    • Acorn of the Ages
    • Regrowth
  • Branchwraith
    • Verdant Blessing
  • 20 Dryads
  • 10 Dryads
  • 10 Tree-Revenants
  • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
  • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
  • 3 Kurnoth Swords
  • Free Spirits Battalion

When the opportunity exists, also interested in trying Spirit of Durthu + Drycha as a combat-threat duo, to try and take advantage of Durthu's Solemn Guardian + Ethereal Amulet + ideally Mystic Shield. On a 4+, wounds to Drycha could be allocated to him, and taken on 3+ ignore rend (+ potentially RR 1's).

Since the ability says "...causes a wound...," I'm guessing mortal wounds would not trigger Solemn Guardian? Normally the warscroll would say "wound(s) or mortal wound(s)," but this could be an instance of warscroll writing that's incongruent with their more refined, consistent writing in recent battletomes.

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I’m looking at playing the TM Dreadwood alpha strike list - as a brand new play (2 games) - I just need something simple to play and even quicker to paint - and it was suggested this is a good list.

Can someone point me to advice for how it plays - I understand it was at the 6 nations.  

Allariele

Drycha

Bramchwraith

Celestand Prime

4 * 5 spite revenants

3 * great bow kurneth

Edited by Cblackaus

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2 hours ago, Cblackaus said:

I’m looking at playing the TM Dreadwood alpha strike list - as a brand new play (2 games) - I just need something simple to play and even quicker to paint - and it was suggested this is a good list.

Can someone point me to advice for how it plays - I understand it was at the 6 nations.  

Allariele

Drycha

Bramchwraith

Celestand Prime

4 * 5 spite revenants

3 * great bow kurneth

I severly doubt this is a list that is simple to play and master. If your alpha fail or you leave key troops vulnerably after the strike it might be very hard. 

I'd say a list without wargroves with 1-2 units of 20 dryads, Alarielle, a wraith and a few units of hunters is probably easier to start with (and builds into a gnarlroot easy enough if you want to).

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Yeah I actually get the impession Dreadwood can be quite hard to execute correctly. It would be very easy to alpha in games where it's not correct to do so, etc etc.

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9 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

Yeah I actually get the impession Dreadwood can be quite hard to execute correctly. It would be very easy to alpha in games where it's not correct to do so, etc etc.

I mean the whole idea of that post (not yours) is ridiculous: I heard some player did great in a big tournament (so.. a pro player with a pro army) so please tell me how to copy this in 1-2 posts on a forum.... I do hope he means he only has 2 sylvaneth games behind his belt and not 2 AoS games total :D

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On 8/24/2018 at 9:46 PM, scrubyandwells said:

When the opportunity exists, also interested in trying Spirit of Durthu + Drycha as a combat-threat duo, to try and take advantage of Durthu's Solemn Guardian + Ethereal Amulet + ideally Mystic Shield. On a 4+, wounds to Drycha could be allocated to him, and taken on 3+ ignore rend (+ potentially RR 1's).

Since the ability says "...causes a wound...," I'm guessing mortal wounds would not trigger Solemn Guardian? Normally the warscroll would say "wound(s) or mortal wound(s)," but this could be an instance of warscroll writing that's incongruent with their more refined, consistent writing in recent battletomes.

I was doing similar with durthu and alarielle with my old list (durthu with ethereal). Pretty certain it's just normal wounds, it'd have to mention mortal wounds to include them. Still a useful ability. 

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