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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin
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2 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Can somebody read the talon of the dwindling? Is the ca the same?

Command ability looks the same. Talon nerfed pretty hard. Now if you successfully wound with it, you roll a dice. On a 6+ it auto kills the model, if you roll a 1-5 the wound is negated. Ouch.

She doesn't run and charge, but she can retreat and charge.

 

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5 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Command ability looks the same. Talon nerfed pretty hard. Now if you successfully wound with it, you roll a dice. On a 6+ it auto kills the model, if you roll a 1-5 the wound is negated. Ouch.

She doesn't run and charge, but she can retreat and charge.

 

Thank you, ran out of reactions

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Drycha's battalion is her and two units of spites. Battalion gives the spites -1 rend. That's... not terrible, actually. With their horde discount, a blob of Spites with rend could actually be a halfway decent hammer unit.

 

 

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The Wildwoods have also been improved a lot. Now they're made up of 1-3 trees instead of 3-6, so you can drop down single trees, or skimp on them and just buy the one box. Much more flexible. There's other rules too.

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The Talon is interesting. You roll a dice for instakill for every wound caused by it. I know 3+/4+ and no rend is not great, but it's a fun little thing to have. I suppose the wound is not negated if it already killed a model (?). She is better, yes, but being more expensive it's even trickier to field her. 

The new hero it's odd, does it have a place in the army? The +1 to cast next to trees would have been useful on Alarielle, though. 

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7 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

The new hero it's odd, does it have a place in the army? The +1 to cast next to trees would have been useful on Alarielle, though.

7 wounds for 275 is a lot of points (the after save helps thought), but the +1 to cast near a wood + 2 casts has a lot of potential. It gives us a 2 cast wizard to use the Throne + other spell reliable and don't take an artifact slot to do so.

With the change in the woods damage dealing ability, having some endless spells on the field become a lot more interesting and he helps with that. I really want to try him with Gnarlroot, giving the chalice to him for a 3d6  +1 on both cast!

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7 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

7 wounds for 275 is a lot of points (the after save helps thought), but the +1 to cast near a wood + 2 casts has a lot of potential. It gives us a 2 cast wizard to use the Throne + other spell reliable and don't take an artifact slot to do so.

With the change in the woods damage dealing ability, having some endless spells on the field become a lot more interesting and he helps with that. I really want to try him with Gnarlroot, giving the chalice to him for a 3d6  +1 on both cast!

Yeah, probably a better choice than a TA. 

Also, because the warscrolls say they both know all the spells from the lore, does it mean that if they are used in Cities of Sigmar, they also have access to them? 

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The fact that the Goddess Alarielle still doesn't have even a conditional modifier to casting rolls is... maddening. I like the buffs, but with the points hike I doubt she'll really see competitive play.

 

Sad. 

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3 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

Also, because the warscrolls say they both know all the spells from the lore, does it mean that if they are used in Cities of Sigmar, they also have access to them?

RAW I think so, but we will probably get a FAQ for this.

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9 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

The fact that the Goddess Alarielle still doesn't have even a conditional modifier to casting rolls is... maddening. I like the buffs, but with the points hike I doubt she'll really see competitive play.

 

Sad. 

Now that she knows all the spells from the deepwood lore, you can use spell cast 1 for throne, then get the +2 for the other spells.  It will help a lot.  Not perfect, but better.

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I expected Alarielle to get the additional general rule like Morathi and the Mortarchs have, that would have made me feel a bit better about her improved warscroll (still not convinced she is worth her new points).

Having an actually affordable double caster will feel much better I think, it will at least free me up from the obligation of taking spiritsong staff in every list. Other than that the revenant seems solid.

New wyldwood rules are an improvement and a big money saver for anyone wanting to commit to the army.

I'm not sure these changes make Sylvaenth more powerful but they probably make them significantly less frustrating. Was considering selling the Sylvaneth I have to commit my time elsewhere, will try to get a couple of games in with this new stuff to see if that changes my mind...

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Posted (edited)

I think people are underestimating how big these changes are. 

The changes to our Wyldwood is really significant. It looks like we can set up a single wood and use it as a teleportation node, while using 2-3 wyldwoods allows us to block line of sight a little better (now it looks like the LoS needs to go 3” through a WW. Makes me want to read the measurement wording a little closer). It also looks like the line of sight rules have been changed to being dependent on the models wounds characteristic (looks like 10 to me) rather than their ability to fly. To me, that sounds like it cuts KO shooting in half as only the ships will be able to fire through the LOS blocking woods. The buff to the damage roll is huge as well, the ability to do MW on a 4+ (The base looks like it’s 6+, but it could be 5+, making it 3+) next to a wizard or endless spell means it will be putting out MW at least once per turn, per unit (since it triggers in both our charge phase and the opponents charge phase). Considering how many units are appearing as wizards now (hello lumineth!) that’s a big change and makes our woods scary again. 

The new caster looks like it fills a nice gap in the army. 4+ shrug is huge especially when it has access to all the Sylvaneth spells, and a bonus to casting and 2 spells (including the healing spell). It’s 3” range means it can easily hide behind a unit of hunters or a dryad line and still attack without opening itself up to retaliation attacks. That means it can heal itself and bring one of it’s hunter bodyguards back.

I think Alarielle’s changes are the sleeper hit here. The changes to her healing and giving her access to all the spells is a big boost to her survivability. If your stupid and try fighting a couple of bloodthirsters solo she’s still going to get insta-rekted, but honestly if you play her like that you’re doing it wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Izotzuhure said:

The Talon is interesting. You roll a dice for instakill for every wound caused by it. I know 3+/4+ and no rend is not great, but it's a fun little thing to have. I suppose the wound is not negated if it already killed a model (?). She is better, yes, but being more expensive it's even trickier to field her. 

 


I had to read the entry twice, but it really looks like it’s set up to be a big monster killer and nothing else. The damage profile is only 4+/3+, (with ways to improve between wargroves, CA’s and items) but it seems you really do roll a dice for every wound that goes through. Then you roll for 6’s before removing the model. This seems to include 1 wounds models. Which means unless you roll 6’s it wont kill 1 wound models. The chance to auto remove big multi-wound models who get in base contact with her is nothing to sneeze at. Put 3 wounds through with it and you have a 50% chance to remove that mega-gargant in a single combat.  

This looks like a nerf, but most of her damage has been shifted to her other profiles. She got a +1 on her hit/wound for the beetle and the flat damage + healing on her spear with a +1 to hit turns her into a decent ranged damage dealer. Her beetle also does d6 Mw on a 6 when rolling for charge damage. The ability to retreat and charge means you’ll be able to do that every turn. 

Her spell has gone from a MW on a 4+ to a 3+. Now that we can put 1 wood down instead of the mandatory 3, she stands a really good chance of popping smaller support heroes in the back line and turning them into trees. 

 

2 hours ago, mojojojo101 said:

I expected Alarielle to get the additional general rule like Morathi and the Mortarchs have...



She did. She’s counted as being the general in addition to whoever else you pick. That and the above seems well worth the 540 point price tag to me.
 

3 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

The fact that the Goddess Alarielle still doesn't have even a conditional modifier to casting rolls is... maddening. I like the buffs, but with the points hike I doubt she'll really see competitive play.


Lets be real: it’s not that hard to roll a 7. Or a 5. And you really should have plenty of other casts to draw out unbinds and whatnot. 

Lets also not forget that a new edition is dropping pretty soon. The bravery rebuff on the new caster seems like an odd choice, but it might tie into an altered game mechanic. If not, combine with spites for a -3 bravery debuff (-4 with wraithstone) makes her primal terror spell a lot more reliable. A d3MW 10” bubble ain’t nothing to sneeze at, and at a potential -4 makes it a threat even to bravery 10 units; and absolutely terrifying to bravery 6-7 units.   

Edited by Mirage8112
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Alarielle got an enormous buff. She certainly feels like an equal to a lot of the other deities running around now. Whether she's worth 740 (or 540, realistically) points is another question entirely, but she's certainly going to be a real force on the tabletop now.

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The more I look, the more I like these changes. Alarielle's increased healing PLUS better scaling of her weapons really make a huge difference. Knowing all the lore spells makes throne of vines better too. Plus Metamorphosis on a 3+ 😮

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Walkirriox said:

Wouldn’t you mind to upload it to imgur for better quality? I would appreciate it really

the one on the reddit page is big, but if you upload it here it's tiny, dunno what's up with that :s

 

Edited by overtninja
picture is tiny!
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The warding revenant is a good warscroll but it is horrifically overcoated. 275 points for just 2 casts is an absolutely horrible deal.

Some comparisons:

belladonna Volga, released recently, has +1 save, +2 wounds, +2mv, +2 bravery, same damage output, a second unbind and a command ability. And she is 75 points LESS.

or compare to a skaven grey seer at 140 pts. 2 casts and unbinds, casts on a 3d6. Less sturdy, sure, but you can get 2 of them for the same price, easily equalizing the durability difference. And stand next to a warp hole for even better casting. 

Or to a slaan, who has quite similar base stats but is a 3cast/3 unbind wizard, also has a useful command ability, and generates 2 CPS on a 4+. And costs 15 pts LESS.

Or to a contorted epitome. 2c/2d, a useful fights last aura, and 65 pts less.

All of the above also have something equal to or similar to the +1 to cast, and all just blow this out of the water. Even within the battletome itself you could get 3 branchwriaths instead, for 3 casts and unbinds. Sure you lose +1, but that seems far better and is still 35 pts cheaper. For only about 80 pts more you can get a branchwriaths AND an outcasts battalion to give an artifact to your wraith to make a similar 2 cast wizard and still have all the models from the battalion!

it's true I picked some strong playable options as my comparison point, and things need to be balanced within a battletome. We also have a great spell lore. But at the same time, sylvaneth are clearly a weak battletome already and all of these comparisons are just so far ahead of her it's not even close. She would be a strong competitive pick for a very weak battletome at 140 or so and I'd try her at maybe 200 since the spell lore is so good, probably with a Balewind vortex. At 275 she is sadly a hard pass in any serious list. 

Sigh. What's frustrating is that I didn't even have to try very hard for figure out this was hopelessly overcoated. I'd have hoped better from a multimillion dollar company tasked solely with making and designing a game.

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