AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Landohammer]

1 hour ago, Pennydude said:

@Landohammer can you re-post your list? ❤️

The core of the list is as follows

Harvestboon

Durthu (sickle and seek new fruit)

Branchwraith (regrowth and stave)

3x5 Spites

Outcast

2x6 Hunters Swords

1X6 Hunter Scythes

That should leave you with about 200pts to play with. I usually bump the scythes up to 9. But a unit of Sisters or a Treelord also work.

 

 

 

 

[martinwolf]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Branchwraith (regrowth and stave)

Do you get to summon Dryads without the Throne/Stave combo? Or is it just not needed in your list/playstyle? List sounds cool and relatively straight forward. I like that!

But I wonder how you get Durthu and the Hunters into fights without taking too many damage on their way without Spiteswarm Hive (and Dreadwood) or a second failsafe wyldwood from a TLA.

[Kiekeboe]

Spoiler

 

13 hours ago, Landohammer said:

The core of the list is as follows

Harvestboon

Durthu (sickle and seek new fruit)

Branchwraith (regrowth and stave)

3x5 Spites

Outcast

2x6 Hunters Swords

1X6 Hunter Scythes

That should leave you with about 200pts to play with. I usually bump the scythes up to 9. But a unit of Sisters or a Treelord also work.

 

Thoughts on putting the 3xKurnoths+Durthu in Free Spirits to go down to a 3-drop list?

[Pennydude]

3 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thoughts on putting the 3xKurnoths+Durthu in Free Spirits to go down to a 3-drop list?

IMO, doing so would waste an artefact since there's only 2 heroes.  I also think that Free Spirits kinda sucks at 140pts.

[Landohammer]

19 hours ago, martinwolf said:

Do you get to summon Dryads without the Throne/Stave combo? Or is it just not needed in your list/playstyle? List sounds cool and relatively straight forward. I like that!

But I wonder how you get Durthu and the Hunters into fights without taking too many damage on their way without Spiteswarm Hive (and Dreadwood) or a second failsafe wyldwood from a TLA.

I often attempt the summon, but have found the dryads to be relatively useless after turn 1 or 2. Generally the priority spell is Verdant blessing for teleports and regrowth to heal durthu back up to top bracket. 

So speed is an issue. However most of the meta seems to either be alpha strike melee or shooty.  

Vs alpha it isnt a problem because they come to me. Vs shooty i try to capitalize on forests for cover/teleporting but its admittedly a challenge. However note that 30-45 wound units of Hunters are hard as balls to shoot off. So sometimes i just plant them on objectives and wait it out. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thoughts on putting the 3xKurnoths+Durthu in Free Spirits to go down to a 3-drop list?

Im not a fan of putting that many points in battallions.  6 drop is generally good enough for me. However Free Spirits would be a lot more useful than outcasts as my single battallion. The catch is that the extra 40 point cost means i only have 160pts to purchase another unit. And 3 more hunters is just more useful than the Free Spirit bonus

 

Note that i have ran Free Spirits with this list before and that is actually the build I use for when i take sisters. 

 

Random note: I played vs Lumineth today (Teclis and 30 sentinels!!) And somehow scored another win. 19-18. I am now on a 4 win streak!

I got pretty lucky. Scored the double on turn 1 and managed to summon a forest and make the teleport + charge into his screens. His archers and Eltharion wrecked me but i kept his front lines so busy with hunters + durthu that he just couldnt get by to take my objectives. Scenario was Forcing the Hand so it was a lot of objectives and a lot of table to cover. 

Tourney is next weekend!

[Landohammer]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:16 PM, Pennydude said:

IMO, doing so would waste an artefact since there's only 2 heroes.  I also think that Free Spirits kinda sucks at 140pts.

All of our battalions suck. Outcast is just the cheapest form of suck 🤣

[Pennydude]

7 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

All of our battalions suck. Outcast is just the cheapest form of suck 🤣

You get no argument from me brother.  I do think that Outcast is one of the better battalions in the game for it's efficiency.  Is there another way to get all battleline requirements in one drop for 280pts or less?  That right there is like the ONLY good thing in this book.  Except for me, I also love me some Drycha.  I'll use her any day of the week.

[Landohammer]

Yea, it lets you suck a bit more efficiently than the other battalions.  I honestly wouldn't bring it all if it weren't for the Spiritsong Stave. The extra cast just proves super crucial for summoning forests. Its particularly useful on turn 1 when I am often out of range of unbinds. 

I like Drycha as well, but she (like Durthu) is paying a hell of a premium for all of her abilities. I had a rude awakening in my last game after seeing what a 220point Light of Eltharion could do compared to my 300pt characters.

 

[Pennydude]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Yea, it lets you suck a bit more efficiently than the other battalions.  I honestly wouldn't bring it all if it weren't for the Spiritsong Stave. The extra cast just proves super crucial for summoning forests. Its particularly useful on turn 1 when I am often out of range of unbinds. 

I like Drycha as well, but she (like Durthu) is paying a hell of a premium for all of her abilities. I had a rude awakening in my last game after seeing what a 220point Light of Eltharion could do compared to my 300pt characters.

 

Yeah, the Spiritsong Stave is so good.  

LoE seems like it just has to die to mortal wounds which is something Sylvaneth struggle to consistently deal outside of Drycha shooting 20 bees at it while re-rolling 1s.

[Landohammer]

3 hours ago, Pennydude said:

Yeah, the Spiritsong Stave is so good.  

LoE seems like it just has to die to mortal wounds which is something Sylvaneth struggle to consistently deal outside of Drycha shooting 20 bees at it while re-rolling 1s.

Its been a minute since I played Drycha. How does she get rerolls in the shooting phase? 

Yea but even then the player will usually have a 5+ FNP as well as the double CP spell up. So he is going to save quite a few of them  and he doesn't degrade.  The spell that doubles CP is probably one of their strongest abilities. It absolutely shuts down Dreadwood lists. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Landohammer

[Pennydude]

7 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Its been a minute since I played Drycha. How does she get rerolls in the shooting phase? 

I typically play Gnarlroot so she always gets rerolls of 1 to shoot.  
 

8 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Yea but even then the player will usually have a 5+ FNP as well as the double CP spell up. So he is going to save quite a few of them  and he doesn't degrade.  The spell that doubles CP is probably one of their strongest abilities. It absolutely shuts down Dreadwood lists. 

See, there's really not a whole lot we can do about that, especially with Teclis running around.  If you know you are playing against LRL, I guess you could ally in a Knight Incantor or three to stop those spells when needed.

I do agree that LoE just puts our trees to shame.  Ignores rend, ignores penalties to hit, takes half damage, deals MW at range, and gets a 5+ FNP when buffed makes, IMHO, that one model better than our entire book combined.

[Fyrm]

So, I'm curious. Why don't I see many people using Vespal Gem much? Sure, it only helps with Lore spell, but that's still a free Regrowth every turn, that can't be unbound by even Teclis. I feel like that'd be a must run in Gnarlroot, with how much people are saying that unless you have a +2 to cast you'll never get spells off. Put that on the General, and you'll be taking 1 mortal to heal 1d6 and 1d3. No argument. Or Verdurous Harmony for models back and the 1d3 heal.

[Landohammer]

28 minutes ago, Fyrm said:

So, I'm curious. Why don't I see many people using Vespal Gem much? Sure, it only helps with Lore spell, but that's still a free Regrowth every turn, that can't be unbound by even Teclis. I feel like that'd be a must run in Gnarlroot, with how much people are saying that unless you have a +2 to cast you'll never get spells off. Put that on the General, and you'll be taking 1 mortal to heal 1d6 and 1d3. No argument. Or Verdurous Harmony for models back and the 1d3 heal.

The item is solid, but the issue is that our spell lore lacks any meaningful spells to capitalize on the item. Is forcing through a D6 heal really going to impact the game enough? Will your caster even be near your heavy hitters when its needed?

If we had spells that gave armywide 5++ or  gave a unit -1 to hit, etc then you would be on to something  But as it stands i would rather just spam rouse to wrath and verdant blessing with the stave 🤷‍♂️ 

[Popisdead]

On 2/20/2021 at 2:16 PM, Pennydude said:

IMO, doing so would waste an artefact since there's only 2 heroes.  I also think that Free Spirits kinda sucks at 140pts.

If you read what it does for Hunters it makes me wonder why it doesn't have run and shoot/charge.  

On 2/22/2021 at 7:25 AM, Pennydude said:

You get no argument from me brother.  I do think that Outcast is one of the better battalions in the game for it's efficiency.  Is there another way to get all battleline requirements in one drop for 280pts or less?  That right there is like the ONLY good thing in this book.  Except for me, I also love me some Drycha.  I'll use her any day of the week.

I think the Forest Folk has some legs.  Perhaps it sucks but a BW, 30 Dryads and 2x 10 Dryads is the same as a BW, 3x 5 Spites, 30 Dryads for points.  

Are 30 Dryads invalid in the current meta?  Or are KHs the go-to requirement to make the army work?  I guess it's the latter?

[Popisdead]

On 2/22/2021 at 7:41 AM, Landohammer said:

I had a rude awakening in my last game after seeing what a 220point Light of Eltharion could do compared to my 300pt characters.

Add to that Sigvald and while people think he sucks for his points, he is a fantastic hard counter to Phoenix Guard (the go to unit in most Cities lists) and he comes across like a chaos Light of Eltharion.

[Landohammer]

6 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

If you read what it does for Hunters it makes me wonder why it doesn't have run and shoot/charge.  

I think the Forest Folk has some legs.  Perhaps it sucks but a BW, 30 Dryads and 2x 10 Dryads is the same as a BW, 3x 5 Spites, 30 Dryads for points.  

Are 30 Dryads invalid in the current meta?  Or are KHs the go-to requirement to make the army work?  I guess it's the latter?

I am not a fan of Forest folk. Units of 10 dryads are a pretty large waste of points. When you add in the cost of the battalion it really starts to add up. I have considered the Household though, but the Branchwych is just so frustratingly bad for the same points as a wraith.

30 Dryads are actually fine for the most part. The issue is that the meta is  soul-crushingly hard on spell casters, so verdant blessing is unreliable. So that can leave Dryads anchored to your starter forest, which means they can't really do their job of tanking objectives. And if they leave the forest they go from an anvil to just a nuisance. 

 

[Arzalyn]

21 hours ago, Fyrm said:

So, I'm curious. Why don't I see many people using Vespal Gem much? Sure, it only helps with Lore spell, but that's still a free Regrowth every turn, that can't be unbound by even Teclis. I feel like that'd be a must run in Gnarlroot, with how much people are saying that unless you have a +2 to cast you'll never get spells off. Put that on the General, and you'll be taking 1 mortal to heal 1d6 and 1d3. No argument. Or Verdurous Harmony for models back and the 1d3 heal.

Do you see using it for any other spell other than healing d6 or bringing back a kurnoth (because I doubt that is worthy to bring back some dryads and both revenants generally die before you can cast in on them). If we could use it to get woods, cast endless spells or summon dryads (which are spells you cast most of the turns), sure it would give the spiritsong staff a good competition. I really like the gem in concept, but the spells we really want to cast aren't part of our spell lore.

[Popisdead]

19 hours ago, Landohammer said:

I am not a fan of Forest folk. Units of 10 dryads are a pretty large waste of points. When you add in the cost of the battalion it really starts to add up. I have considered the Household though, but the Branchwych is just so frustratingly bad for the same points as a wraith.

30 Dryads are actually fine for the most part. The issue is that the meta is  soul-crushingly hard on spell casters, so verdant blessing is unreliable. So that can leave Dryads anchored to your starter forest, which means they can't really do their job of tanking objectives. And if they leave the forest they go from an anvil to just a nuisance. 

 

Okay,.. getting what you are saying.  Thanks.  

[Trickflo]

Hey I was hoping someone could help me understand how woods work a bit better my current understanding is.

Free wood can be placed anywhere more then 1 away from terrain and enemy territory and more then 6 away from objectives.  

Other summoned woods can be placed anywhere within the range of the source more then 1 away from any models(not sure if just enemy models or friendlies as well) or terrain and 6 from objectives. 

I'm not 100% sure about the accuracy of that stuff and I couldn't find much information about whether or not you can move through woods (myself or opponent) and how you're supposed to handle line of sight(true los or can't see through trees or trees don't block at all) 

If anyone could help clear that up for me I would really appreciate it thanks.

[Pennydude]

5 hours ago, Trickflo said:

Hey I was hoping someone could help me understand how woods work a bit better my current understanding is.

Free wood can be placed anywhere more then 1 away from terrain and enemy territory and more then 6 away from objectives.  

Other summoned woods can be placed anywhere within the range of the source more then 1 away from any models(not sure if just enemy models or friendlies as well) or terrain and 6 from objectives. 

I'm not 100% sure about the accuracy of that stuff and I couldn't find much information about whether or not you can move through woods (myself or opponent) and how you're supposed to handle line of sight(true los or can't see through trees or trees don't block at all) 

If anyone could help clear that up for me I would really appreciate it thanks.

I do know that other summoned woods are just 1" away from everything (terrain, objectives, all models) and that's per the Sylvaneth book.  Refer to the specific spells and abilities.

For the first wood, I've always done 1" from enemy territory, 3" from other terrain, and 6" from objectives which meets both requirements of the GHB and the Sylvaneth book.  I may be wrong on this one though.

[Havelocke]

On 2/25/2021 at 1:20 AM, Trickflo said:

Hey I was hoping someone could help me understand how woods work a bit better...

 

On 2/25/2021 at 7:13 AM, Pennydude said:

I do know that other summoned woods are just 1" away from everything (terrain, objectives, all models) and that's per the Sylvaneth book.  Refer to the specific spells and abilities.

For the first wood, I've always done 1" from enemy territory, 3" from other terrain, and 6" from objectives which meets both requirements of the GHB and the Sylvaneth book.  I may be wrong on this one though.

This is almost spot on, but the GHB 2020 restrictions apply to wyldwoods that are set up during the battle, as well as the first wyldwood that is set up before deployment. The Sylvaneth FAQ specifies that summoned wyldwoods are not subject to GHB 2019 restrictions, but that FAQ wasn't updated after GHB 2020 was released. So we've got three sets of restrictions, and the GHB restrictions stacking with the other two...

 

First Wyldwood: More than 1" away from terrain & enemy territory, more than 6" from objectives

Summoned Wyldwoods: More than 1" away from models, terrain features, & objectives

GHB 2020: More than 3" from other terrain, more than 1" from objectives

 

Put them all together, and you get the following placement restrictions...

 

First Wyldwood: More than 6" from objectives / More than 3" from other terrain / More than 1" from enemy territory

Summoned Wyldwood: More than 1" from objectives / More than 3" from other terrain / More than 1" from other models

[Trickflo]

Awesome thanks for the info 

[Pennydude]

1 hour ago, Havelocke said:

Summoned Wyldwood: More than 1" from objectives / More than 3" from other terrain / More than 1" from other models

This wood literally make the extra Wyldwoods  unusable though.  I haven’t seen or heard of the 3” restriction this from anyone else.

My 2020GHB is packed up for moving so I can’t just reference it.

[Havelocke]

32 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

This wood literally make the extra Wyldwoods  unusable though.  I haven’t seen or heard of the 3” restriction this from anyone else.

My 2020GHB is packed up for moving so I can’t just reference it.

 

Here is the relevant wording from the book...

"Sometimes the allegiance abilities for an army will allow it to include 1 or more terrain features, or a warscroll will allow you to set up 1 or more terrain features once the battle has begun..."

The first part calls out warscrolls that allow you to set up terrain, which would include Alarielle's Metamorphosis and the Treelord Ancient's Silent Communion. Verdant Blessing and the Acorn of the Ages are a bit less clear, since they are not on individual warscrolls, and I can't find any rule that explicitly says they are added to a unit's warscroll.

"...faction terrain must be set up more than 3" from any other terrain features and more than 1" from any objectives, in addition to any other restrictions that apply."

This second part indicates that faction terrain, as defined previously, is subject to these restrictions in addition to any others.

 

I might be missing something, but if so I'm not seeing it.

[Havelocke]

9 minutes ago, Havelocke said:

 

Verdant Blessing and the Acorn of the Ages are a bit less clear, since they are not on individual warscrolls

Okay. Artefacts and command traits are a subset of allegiance abilities. It's still not crystal clear, though, because they're not an allegiance ability that lets you include a wyldwood, nor are they a warscroll that allows you to set up one.