AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[States]

Alarielle or Drycha better?

Edited March 16, 2020 by States
nevermind..

[Sleepa]

4 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

Gnarlroot is an interesting example. I played a lot of Gnarlroot in 1.0 and it is entirely fair to say that it plays differently in 2.0. Total number of casts is half what it was for a start. But if you look beyond the inability to squeeze in non-faction casters, the remaining Glade is actually pretty solid - it has access to an excellent casting artefact in the Chalice, and can pick up a second in the Gem. Since the old glade specific spell is now freely available (Verdurous Harmony), you’ve got a nGnarlroot which has the same theme as oGnarlroot, the same potent spell, trade quantity for quality of casting and layers on a lot of additional durability and accuracy that oGnarlroot never had. All for the price of being a Sylvaneth Glade and not Sylvaneth & the Super Friend. I’ve won many games with nGnarlroot - it’s good even if it is different. 

I'm also a big fan of new Gnarlroot (At least compared to the other Glades in the new book). I enjoy Winterleaf, Dreadwood, Harvestboon (Really, all of them aside from Oakenbrow and Ironbark), but Gnarlroot is the only glade that has an ability, command ability, Command trait, and artifact that all impress me. Granted, the command ability is situational at best, and probably the softest perk of the Glade, but honestly Winterleaf is probably the only other Glade with multiple elements that also impress me (Exploding 6s plus the artifact).

I too came from loving Gnarlroot in the old book, and find the thing I miss the most is the bonus spell casts. To me, it really felt like you couldn't really "pull off" Sylvaneth magic without a contingent of multi-casters. This has resulted in the +1 cast artifact in our new book, being the first thing I think about when I'm drafting up lists these days. I think GW really missed the mark by leaving the TLA as a single-caster, as well as not completely revamping the Branchwych warscroll to make her some kind of viable and desirable wizard (Honestly, does any EVER want to take her in a list? Ever? As far as I can tell, her literal sole purpose is to be a Battalion tax).

All that being said, I think our current incarnation of Gnarlroot has some serious play, although I have to admit: I am straight up terrified of facing off against Tzeentch, Nagash, or Khorne; and having all of my spellcasting (And essentially my army) utterly invalidated.

[Pigey]

I really agree with the above. Gnarlroot is a well-rounded sub-allegiance and I do not find it lacking anything in itself.

The "issue" with the current book for me is that it does not feel up to speed with the others. I think it is balanced internally: you can build different viable list and not be stuck in just one. But it is far from being a power house. That being said, I agree with other people who said that what they loved about Sylvaneth is that they always feel like they stand a chance. It is very true Love this faction. Won't stop playing them as my main army.

 

About the Branchwych: GW, if you are reading this, REWRITE the warscroll, please 😛 @Sleepa is right: nobody uses her. Ever.

If you could also drop the Vanilla Treelord another 10 or 20 points, that would be great.

Oh, and also, while you are at it:

- make the Treelord Ancient a 2 cast wizard

- rewrite the Lords of the Clan, Household and Free Spirit Batallion

- drop Bow Hunters to 180-190

 

Thaaaaanks Just a wish-list - no ranting

[Trevelyan]

16 hours ago, Sleepa said:

To me, it really felt like you couldn't really "pull off" Sylvaneth magic without a contingent of multi-casters. This has resulted in the +1 cast artifact in our new book, being the first thing I think about when I'm drafting up lists these days.

. . .

All that being said, I think our current incarnation of Gnarlroot has some serious play, although I have to admit: I am straight up terrified of facing off against Tzeentch, Nagash, or Khorne; and having all of my spellcasting (And essentially my army) utterly invalidated.

I really don’t miss the multi-casting. Think back on what you actually used it for - I found myself taking a Branchwych for extra offensive magic and a host of endless spells. Even then, I was frequently short of genuine spell options, and the ones that counted were far from guaranteed. After trying both, I much prefer the virtual guarantee of getting two key spells off each turn. 

On that basis, I would suggest that you don’t reach for the Spiritsong Stave as your default first artefact. It is useful, but the Vesperal Gem is generally better and there are several interesting options for non-casters. 

Tzeentch is an interesting game  for Gnarlroot. The Vesperal Gem means we can guarantee one cast per turn, and the Chalice gives us a better chance than most of managing a second. My local Chaos player find it distinctly uncomfortable to face a list that can still cast. And remember that the Wyldwoods can seriously penalise Tzeentch casting without impairing our own (Hint: take a TLA to drop a key Wyldwood without a spell). It’s actually not a bad match up. 

[azmar]

hi sylv's I try create very competiv list on tournament.

I have hard meta (city of sigmar, shoot tzeench, many naked dworf(3x20 elite bers), ork etc ) and skilled palyer: etc and london gt winner/top3.

need advice. allariel i removed from list becose she's easy target for shoot drop (sylv have many pool choice and we cant control first turn) and i cant take her if path bcs she top caster - maybe mistake ?

i think about: max kurnoth and max range atk.

1 list:

winterleaf

Atreelord general vesp gem + res kurnoth spell (easy forest and stomp)

Drycha - nice shoot

BranchWraf - free dryad

Archrev - art frozen kernel

Batle line 3x5 Angry Rev + outcast bat for cp and free art

10 dryad

other

6 kurnoth scyte

6 kurnoth sword

end. spell - hive

in this list shoot only drycha and treelord staff

 

2 list:

winterleaf

Atreelord general res kurnoth spell

Drycha - nice shoot BranchWraf

Archrev - art frozen kernel

Durty + art doppel cloak or ignore rend from shaysh (more shoot, more stomp)

Batle line

3x5 Angry Rev + outcast bat for cp and free art

other

6 kurnoth scyte

3 kurnoth sword

end. spell - hive

little more shoot and stomp but lost 3 kurnoth sword

 

3 list:

winterleaf

Atreelord general res kurnoth spell

Drycha - nice shoot

BranchWraf

Archrev - art frozen kernel

Batle line

3x5 Angry Rev

other

9 kurnoth scyte

6 kurnoth sword

end. spell - hive

we lost durtu, cp and second art, but have more kurnoth in all 3 list we have small amount scoring body maybe need take 30 dryad like shield from shoot drop and mission

 

4 list:

winterleaf

Atreelord general res kurnoth spell

Drycha - nice shoot

BranchWraf

Archrev - art frozen kernel

Batle line

2x5 Angry Rev

30 dryad

other

6 kurnoth scyte

6 kurnoth sword

end. spell - hive

all 4 list have many drop what u think ? what better in actual meta: more damage or more scoring unit? Maybe take allariel i love her very flexible summon only 80 point higher price compared to drycha ( if allariel survives the first turn)

ps. sorry 4 my eng. )

Edited February 21, 2020 by azmar

[Craze]

Hi azmar, you should really format your text a little bit, it is really hard to read as a big block of text with 4 lists hidden inside it. 🙂

[azmar]

yep, sry, browser glith

[Craze]

I think first of all one thing is very clear: Kurnoth Hunters are our bread & butter and the most effective Unit we can take.

So if you are really talking about a 100% competitive list it should max out on Hunters. Because of this, I do not know if there is room for a Treelord Ancient in a 100% competitive list for a Sylvaneth army at the moment, as he does not bring enough to the table.

I guess taking list 3, cutting the Treelord for another Wraith + Outcasts would be the most effective way.

[azmar]

Vesperal gem 4 res kurnoth

or 2spell staff+trone 4 dryad and forest summon ?)

[Trevelyan]

4 hours ago, Craze said:

I think first of all one thing is very clear: Kurnoth Hunters are our bread & butter and the most effective Unit we can take.

So if you are really talking about a 100% competitive list it should max out on Hunters. 

That’s a classic example of a basic inductive fallacy. Just because X is good, it does not follow that more X is better and most X is best. That may be the case, but in practice there are always limits. 

Consider that you could take 2,000 points of Kurnoth Hunters - ten full units, or 30 bodies on the table. That’s maxing out on Hunters. Clearly that isn’t an optimal list - swapping a single unit for an arch revenant or two is going to improve your output. 

In practice, you recognise that - you aren’t actually calling for a 30 Hunter list - but you still dismiss the TLA option on the basis that they cut into the Hunter budget.

The TLA brings a guaranteed Wyldwood to aid Hunter mobility (they are significantly weakened if you can only stomp across the table on foot). The TLA is also the only caster we have that can operate safely (and with reasonable damage output) in the second line - Wyches and Wraiths need a lot more protection - so if you want spell support to heal or resurrect your Hunters then the TLA is a solid choice.

The TLA isn’t the fire-and-forget level of easy Hunter support that Archie brings, but it’s a gross oversimplification to dismiss the TLA out of hand; there are many things I would be inclined to drop first. 

[Trevelyan]

3 hours ago, azmar said:

Vesperal gem 4 res kurnoth

or 2spell staff+trone 4 dryad and forest summon ?)

Vesperal Gem. 

Summoning an extra 10 Dryads, most likely in your backfield and a turn or two away from contributing is an occasional nice to have but rarely a game changer.  If you need to rely on a Dryad summon to try to win then you’ve already lost. 

Guaranteed summoning a Hunter back to a unit that is already engaged (it has taken damage) will make a difference every time you do it. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Trevelyan

[a74xhx]

On 2/20/2020 at 9:04 AM, Trevelyan said:

On that basis, I would suggest that you don’t reach for the Spiritsong Stave as your default first artefact. It is useful, but the Vesperal Gem is generally better and there are several interesting options for non-casters.

"Problem" with the gem is (I feel) it's only useful for use with Harmony. And that's really just a Kurnoth booster. I'd like to have more options with it.

But..... Throne would be a waste. Regrowth feels cheap enough already. Dwellers I've yet to be convinced by.  Harvest maybe if you can get the range. Treesong, no thanks.

[Frowny]

I loved sylvaneth in the old book but since moving to the new one I'm really struggling to enjoy it as much. 

1) I feel like I really have to work hard to play 'the sylvaneth' game. Like I want to be summoning woods and jumping between them and being sneaky, but then since the main way to get more is the spell, I find I have to take things to boost casting to even be able to reliably do the thing my army should be good at. Alternatively, I take the treelord anciet. I love love love the free woods he brings, but he never seems to do that much else. Or he does a little bit of everything, but it never adds up all that well. It feels like I have to commit several hundred points and possibly my artifact to consistently summon 2 woods a game, which just feels bad. Any thoughts on how to fix this? Maybe I should reexamine the acorn?

2) I feel like I'm lacking either an allegiance ability or a scenery ability. When I compare them to my mawtribes, I'm aware exactly what feels like allegience (counts as 2 models, damage on charge) and what counts as scenery bonus (+1 cast, army wide heal). Instead my allegience ability is.... Deep-strike into trees and .... a terrain piece makes me battle shock immune. Wait! Thats a scenery ability again! When I compare them to something like skaven, skaven get almost the best part of the scenery bonus (the teleport), but start with 3 instead of 1 already, get a much more useful +1 to cast (instead of the kind of finicky woods explosions and deadly rule and still have useful actual allegiance abilities. 

3) The suballegiences are all kind of samey- The main bonus for each seems to be some variation on reroll 1's, with a caveat (only some units, near wizards, charging etc.) This is hardly strong enough to make me want to build the army much differently. Only the deadwood command ability is seems worth using relative to even just rerolling charges or whatnot.  The artifacts are OK, but then I'm left wondering if I should just take the regular ones. In fact, basically every other book has more variability and interest in their sub-allegiances than sylvaneth.  Maybe I should just play dreadwood?

 

I kinda wish they had just kept the actual battalion abilities as the groves, instead of changing. +1 cast is very strong on hallowheart, but with less good wizards and no buffs to cast, I don't think would be broken on sylvaneth. It only makes ogor butchers average, they still aren't particularly strong, for example.

+1 to cast and charge would also have been an interesting grove, giving reliability that we lack completely. 

Alas. 

[Trevelyan]

10 hours ago, a74xhx said:

But..... Throne would be a waste. Regrowth feels cheap enough already. Dwellers I've yet to be convinced by.  Harvest maybe if you can get the range. Treesong, no thanks.

Throne would be a waste. 

Regrowth has a lower casting value, but that doesn’t make it much easier to cast under pressure - yes you can cast the spell on a 5+ rather than a 7+, but if you only just squeak past the lower casting value then it is much easier for your opponent to unbind your spell. I rank Regrowth alongside Harmony as a spell that I really need to go off if I’m trying to cast it at all, that includes the chance of unbinding. 

Regrowth is almost always something that you cast on a monster to push it up a damage level or two before moving or attacking  The difference between casting and not casting can be significant. 

The others I tend to bother with less, but that’s personal preference. 

I don’t see why only having the gem work well with one or two spells is a problem, though. Those are the best spells we have and almost every list has at least one of them. Since a given caster can only have one artefact and one extra spell, it doesn’t matter that the artefact he has isn’t as useful with a spell he doesn’t. 

[IndigoGirls]

Has anyone tried the following combination in Gnarlroot? If you have, do you find it consistent at all?

Gnarlroot

- Allarielle + Throne of Vines

- Branchwraith + Chalice of Nectar + Verdurous Harmony

- Balewind Vortex

- Chronomatic Cogs

 

Turn Sequence

Deploy Alarielle within range to cast cogs and have the branchwraith use slow mode. Alarielle casts Throne of Vines, Alarielle casts Cogs Branchwraith uses Cogs (Slow mode cast) to cast Balewind, Branchwraith uses Balewind to cast Dryads. At the end of this Alarielle has 1 cast and branchwraith has 1 cast. This is 800 points of investment so I'm not sure it's worth it but I find the combo interesting and potentially powerful setup with redundancies incase cogs or Balewind fails turn 1.

 

[Trevelyan]

Not remotely worth it. That’s a huge investment, not least in endless spells, for what exactly? The Branchwraith can summon and cast Harmony if she has LoS to the target unit. But she can’t move and if she has LoS to the target unit then she’s probably in a poor position. If, by some miracle, she actually starts contributing then either you have to keep her screened (limiting the value of her Dryads for other purposes) or she’ll die to half the armies that you might face. 

As an abstract exercise in getting multiple casts out of a Branchwraith it is interesting, but not as something to aspire to in an actual game. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Trevelyan

[Craze]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 6:44 PM, Trevelyan said:

That’s a classic example of a basic inductive fallacy. Just because X is good, it does not follow that more X is better and most X is best. That may be the case, but in practice there are always limits. 

Yes sure, you are totally right about it! My original post was too one-sided and extreme.

My baseline was just that Hunters are a very important part of our arsenal and I am not a big fan of the TLA. But I should made clear that it is my personal opinion and not consensus of the Sylvaneth community.  

[Violino]

Hi,

I'm relatively new to Sylvaneth and AoS gaming - haven't played a single game yet, I was enjoying some alone hobby time for now.

I thought it would be a good idea to start small, so 1k armies for now. In the long term I want to have a complete Sylvaneth collection - I just enjoy painting and basing them - but I'd also want to get some tabletop time with all of my models at some point. And since the consensus seems to be that Branchwych is, at best, suboptimal in 2k lists, I thought I might try building a list centered on her. 

I came up with a few variants, but this one seemed best.

NO GROVE BOMB

No Grove

(80) Branchwych

- general, +6" casting range, extra cast 

- throne

(80) Branchwraith

- gem, regrowth/throne/harmony

(100) Arch-rev

(80) 5x Tree-rev

(120) 10x Spite-rev

(200) Sword Hunters

(180) Treelord

(100) Household

(60) Balewind vortex

1000/1000, 6/8 DROPS, 1 CP

 

Branchwych's spell on the vortex has 21" range and repeated Throne casts give more and more dice rolls to fish for 6s. On 48x48 board the range allows to cover almost entire relevant territory. The casting sequence is quite simple: 1st turn Throne followed by Vortex if not moving then Fury/Blessing. In later turns Throne, Fury, Blessing. 

Swords and Archie seems to be extremely efficient powerpair even if Archie isn't the general, Treelord, while worse then Hunters, has some unique utility, range attacks and an extra teleport, and enables Household for gem (note that this list is a starting point for me, I plan on revisiting and polishing it, so an artifact can be changed or even dropped).

A possible alternative I've been thinking about is dropping household and Treelord for another Sword Hunters (or upgrading 3xSwords to 6xScythes) and doubling Tree-revs or CP and Gladewyrm. 

 

I decided to go No Glade as the effective area of the Fury scales with the square of the radius ( or in other words it's easy to dodge 9" range, it's possible to to protect key pieces from 15" range, it's virtually impossible to make use of key support pieces from outside 21"), but this will have to be reconsidered after a few games. Picking a Glade forces me to keep a batalion for Spirit stave, and greatly diminishes Fury usefulness by denying General trait.

 

I'm open to the fact that I might misinterpreted a few rules, so if you would clarify something for me I would be greatfull.

1. Models placed on Balewind vortex can't make ANY moves or just NORMAL moves? I couldn't find any clarification on this topic. It would make sens if they couldn't charge or pile in either but than again RAW it seems that they can do it. I was wondering if I can move Wych between forests without dispelling vortex.

2. Does the Fury spell use casting bonuses when determining the number of dice rolled for units affected? Eg I have +2 to cast and roll a 7 on the 2D6 casting roll, do I roll 7 or 9 dice for each unit in range?

 

Thanks in advance

Edited February 24, 2020 by Violino
Typos

[Violino]

Sorry for double post, I'm not to be able to edit the previous one for some reason.

The Balewind is 40 not 60 points ( I honestly don't know why I thought it was 60) which leaves a bit more points to change 5 Spites into Tree-revs if it turns out to be a better deal.

And the  Branchwych's spell is called Unleashed Spites, not Fury. 

[SkiRootz]

On 2/18/2020 at 11:45 PM, Inquisitorsz said:

ll... there have been quite a few successful players in the some of the largest tournaments in the last few months. Some of them are even on this forum. There's been some success with "non standard" lists too like triple Durthu. 
A guy came 6th at Tempest (out of 46 players) with triple Durth + Alarielle.... that's over 1500pts in heroes. Crazy!   

 

I need to know the working of this list as it sounds super fun, i want to bring as little models to the next local tournament as possible, and this seems like a fun choice. 

Do you recall the wargrove list? I'm willing to try out this strategy it has me intrigued.

[Inquisitorsz]

1 hour ago, SkiRootz said:

 

I need to know the working of this list as it sounds super fun, i want to bring as little models to the next local tournament as possible, and this seems like a fun choice. 

Do you recall the wargrove list? I'm willing to try out this strategy it has me intrigued.

https://tabletop.to/Tempest2020/list/rich-hudspith

 

It was this list 

[Xil]

Hello fellow trees, 

I am looking for a list to fight a Cities of Sigmar Mage spam with Hurricanum, several mages, handgun erst and free guild guard, etc. Packed with a s*load of endless spells. 

Anyone got an idea on how to counter this? 

Could this work by sniping mages:

Artillerie (BBCode)

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Sylvaneth) [2,000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Arch-Revenant [100pts]

Branchwraith [80pts]: 5. Verdurous Harmony

Treelord Ancient [260pts]: 2. Regrowth

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Forest Folk [520pts]
. Branchwraith: 5. Verdurous Harmony
. Dryads: 10 Dryads
. Dryads: 10 Dryads
. Dryads: 10 Dryads

Battalion: Free Spirits [1,040pts]
. Kurnoth Hunters: 3 Kurnoth Hunters, Kurnoth Greatbow
. Kurnoth Hunters: 3 Kurnoth Hunters, Kurnoth Greatbow
. Kurnoth Hunters: 3 Kurnoth Hunters, Kurnoth Greatbow
. Spirit of Durthu

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Allegiance: Sylvaneth

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[IndigoGirls]

On 2/22/2020 at 9:55 PM, Trevelyan said:

Not remotely worth it. That’s a huge investment, not least in endless spells, for what exactly? The Branchwraith can summon and cast Harmony if she has LoS to the target unit. But she can’t move and if she has LoS to the target unit then she’s probably in a poor position. If, by some miracle, she actually starts contributing then either you have to keep her screened (limiting the value of her Dryads for other purposes) or she’ll die to half the armies that you might face. 

As an abstract exercise in getting multiple casts out of a Branchwraith it is interesting, but not as something to aspire to in an actual game. 

Yeah so I missed the LoS clause on the spell... Probably because I haven't used it in ages...

The thought process was to expand aggressively turn 1 and park the branchwraith behind a unit of 9 scythe kurnoths. You'd get a triple caster rolling 3 dice and able to bring back a kurnoth, summon 10 dryads (to secure the objective via bodies), it would be the Gnarlroot general so heal something d3 (most likely), and either mystic shield, bolt, summon woods, or deploy the lists one offensive endless spell.

This variation also keeps the branchwraith off throne of vines so she doesn't butt heads with Alarielle. Cogs acts as a spiteswarm so when that plus move and charge is needed you can flip the switch. Finally, cogs slow mode and Balewind are redundancies. If cogs fails then I can still boost the branchwraith to a second cast via Balewind.

I used the combo against Big Waaaagg last weekend and it felt rather nice. I had to position the branchwraith precisely but I was able to screen her with 5 spites get all the endless spells off and revive kurnoths from my block.

Ultimately it probably is just a thought exercise of pushing something as far as possible but I think it might have a place? Having 7 casts per turn in my list felt very useful and flipping the cogs to speed mode on turn 4 allowed me to get to objectives I'd have missed otherwise and secure the game.

[Kiekeboe]

Hi all!

I'm working on a tournament list and would like to pick your brains and have a little discussion about Treelords and Lords of the Clan. I've yet to see a list have success by going all in on this so I'd like to see if it can be done. The main reason I want to try this is because of the recent point reduction combined with the fact that the Lords of the Clan battalion is dead cheap - it's pretty much the same price as an extra CP.  Also Treelord models are probably my most favourite in the entire range in terms of looks/theme so I really want this to work.

The list I'm currently writing up (w.i.p.) is this:

Spoiler

GLADE
Gnarlroot

LEADERS
Treelord Ancient (General) (260) - Nurtured by magic - Chalice of Nectar - Regrowth 
Treelord Ancient (260) - The Vesperal Gem - Verdurous Harmony
Branchwraith (80) - Throne of Vines
Arch-Revenant (100)

BATTLELINE UNITS
20x Dryads (200)
20x Dryads (200)
5x Tree-Revenants (80)

OTHER UNITS
6x Kurnoth Hunters (400) - Scythes or Swords
1x Treelord (180)
1x Treelord (180)

BATTALIONS
Lords of the Clan (60)

The total price of this maxed out battalion BEFORE the buff would have been 1060, now it's 940  points which is still hefty but opening up 120 points to get, for example, an Arch-Revenant in can be huge.

Let's see what this list gives you in terms of gameplay and how it's going to try and win games. 
Just the main battalion gives you casting/unbinding, forest spawning, buff bodies in the form of Treelords, and maybe most importantly: mobility. All of the Treelords can hop from wood to wood. Place your pre-game wood as far forward as possible (if you're able to take first turn with the list's 7 drops, otherwise place the pre-game wood in your territory and cast one forward on your first turn), cast or auto-drop your second wood near your Treelords on your first turn and you've got 4 Treelords on their side of the board (plus a block of Kurnoths using the allegiance teleport). If you make your forward wood consist of 6 pieces of Wyldwood you can fit your units inside and you can let them charge you if you don't want to charge in yourself. Letting them charge you isn't all bad because you've got 4 Treelord stomps  to turn the combat order in your favour. Also they can't shoot you while you remain in the woods. The above scenario doesn't rely on dice rolls anywhere (except maybe for the Treelord stomps) and should be doable consistently.
The reason I picked Gnarlroot over others is because the  number of attacks in this list probably isn't enough to benefit optimally from Winterleaf's passive where Gnarlroot's healing will rarely go to waste with this many high-wound models. Having 3 dice from the Chalice when trying to cast more woods is amazing, and a Vesperal Gem - Verdurous Harmony combo to guarantee restoring Kurnoth Hunters is solid as well. I would have loved to go Oakenbrow because it fits so well thematically but I couldn't help but prefer all of Gnarlroot's stuff over Oakenbrow.

The question now becomes: can you win battles and/or keep objectives under your control? Are 2 Treelords, 2 Ancients, and 6 Kurnoths enough of a combat force while your dryads/tree revenants grab and hold objectives?

I'm really interested in what you think! I'm going to give this list a try tomorrow and edit my findings in. 

_{(The only thing that's fixed in this list is the Lords of the Clan setup, I can tweak all other units w here needed. For example I may want to run another unit of Kurnoths, but for that I'll have to drop one block of 20 dryads and split the remaining one up in 2 units of 10. Will this be enough to hold/contest objectives? I'm not sure... will have to experiment with this. I also may want to fit in a Spiteswarm Hive but since I want them to come to me in the woods I don't know how important this is to include... Again, will have to test.)}

Edited March 3, 2020 by Kiekeboe

[Aezeal]

On 2/21/2020 at 6:44 PM, Trevelyan said:

That’s a classic example of a basic inductive fallacy. Just because X is good, it does not follow that more X is better and most X is best. That may be the case, but in practice there are always limits. 

Consider that you could take 2,000 points of Kurnoth Hunters - ten full units, or 30 bodies on the table. That’s maxing out on Hunters. Clearly that isn’t an optimal list - swapping a single unit for an arch revenant or two is going to improve your output. 

In practice, you recognise that - you aren’t actually calling for a 30 Hunter list - but you still dismiss the TLA option on the basis that they cut into the Hunter budget.

The TLA brings a guaranteed Wyldwood to aid Hunter mobility (they are significantly weakened if you can only stomp across the table on foot). The TLA is also the only caster we have that can operate safely (and with reasonable damage output) in the second line - Wyches and Wraiths need a lot more protection - so if you want spell support to heal or resurrect your Hunters then the TLA is a solid choice.

The TLA isn’t the fire-and-forget level of easy Hunter support that Archie brings, but it’s a gross oversimplification to dismiss the TLA out of hand; there are many things I would be inclined to drop first. 

That leaves the question which things are worth dropping hunters for (lets take full hunters and min spites as the baseline):

-TLA?

-wraith?

-Archie?

-Drycha?

-A large unit of dryads

-outcast batallion

I think all of them are contenders but I'm not quite sure on what is optimal.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Aezeal