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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

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On 11/22/2019 at 2:12 PM, a74xhx said:

I keep seeing lists with Branchwraith + Throne and no artefact

In lists where you can't reasonably give her an artefact, I was fairly certain Thrones is a trap, so did some maths....

Without thrones you'll be summoning 4 times (turns 1 to 4) at 58%, giving 2.32 successful summons on average.

With the throne, first let us assume throne works, then you'll be summoning 3 times (turns 2, 3 and 4) at 83%, giving you on average 2.49 successful summons.  On a bad day, you'll fail thrones (17% chance) and the following turns you'll really need Dryads, so will be stuck at 58%, giving 1.74 average. If I've got the maths right, then we're down to 2.36 average successful summons overall.

Plus with throne we're down to max 3 successes instead of 4, losing the very useful early summon. Plus you can't move her out of danger without losing your bonus.

Does that include the difference in unbind chance too?

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17 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Does that include the difference in unbind chance too?

I didn't include anything for unbind there. Yeah, as I mentioned in previous post, I guess it depends on how magicy your enemy is as to whether to use throne or not.

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On 11/21/2019 at 3:58 PM, Landohammer said:

You don't have anything that can kill models off objectives. 

I would drop two branchwyches and build one of your treelord models as Durthu. Merge your dryads into a unit of 20 and then just take a throwaway unit of 10 dryads or 5 Revenants. Give regrowth to the Branchwraith.

Take Harvestboon as your glade. Most armies won't have an answer to deal with a Dancing Durthu at 750pts. Use regrowth to keep Durthu as healthy as possible.

A trick to fielding start collecting boxes, is that you sometimes end up with too many branchwyches and not enough dryads. I have occasionally used branchwych models as Dryad champions, and its totally fine to summon models from your dead pile. 

 

Hello Small update on the 750 pts intro battle.

I followed advice with a Durthu 2 units of dryads (10/20) and a branchwraith.

Opponent had two block of 20 chainrasps 10 grimghast a guardian of soul and spirit torment.

 

The mission had us capture 5 objective points. Short story i didn't had nearly enough body to capture the objectives.

My 10 dryads and branchwraith were taken out very early by the grimghast. Duryhu wip3d them in retaliation on his first round of combat. I have been however too conservative with the Durthu. The block of 20 dryads hit like a truck with frozen kernel and took out 16 chainrasp first turn of combat...

He didn't had anything to deal with the Durthu. But combined with a few failed battleshock he was too far ahead with the objectives and i lost. But its a good experience!

Thanks for the advices

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Hi gain treepeople, 

Yesterday I played my first deadwood Glade game. And I have a question about it.

My branchwraith has summoned 10 dryads. This dryads are not able to move in the same turn they come into the battlefield. But may I relocate them with the Glade command ability?

It its considered as they move?

Thank you beforehand :)

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32 minutes ago, Aenur said:

My branchwraith has summoned 10 dryads. This dryads are not able to move in the same turn they come into the battlefield. But may I relocate them with the Glade command ability?

It its considered as they move?

The Dreadwood Sinister Ambush teleport ability is not considered a move. It happens at the end of the movement phase, so a unit cannot move after you teleport it, but otherwise there is no interaction. In fact, a unit can move before a teleport, for example if it is not in range of a hero and needs to get closer  to be the target of Sinister Ambush. 

There is no problem using Sinister Ambush on a newly summoned unit of Dryads. Whether it is a good idea to burn a command point to teleport a unit of 10 Dryads will depend on circumstance/the existence of unguarded objectives. 

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8 hours ago, Aenur said:

Hi gain treepeople, 

Yesterday I played my first deadwood Glade game. And I have a question about it.

My branchwraith has summoned 10 dryads. This dryads are not able to move in the same turn they come into the battlefield. But may I relocate them with the Glade command ability?

It its considered as they move?

Thank you beforehand :)

Agreed with what Trevelyan said. Also note that summoned dryads can also charge if they like.

Dreadwood lists are almost always starved for CPs and Dryads really only do their jobs while in a forest. So may wanna rethink teleporting them! Save the teleports for the heavy hitters and charge rerolls! 

23 hours ago, Anca said:

Hello Small update on the 750 pts intro battle.

I followed advice with a Durthu 2 units of dryads (10/20) and a branchwraith.

Opponent had two block of 20 chainrasps 10 grimghast a guardian of soul and spirit torment.

 

The mission had us capture 5 objective points. Short story i didn't had nearly enough body to capture the objectives.

My 10 dryads and branchwraith were taken out very early by the grimghast. Duryhu wip3d them in retaliation on his first round of combat. I have been however too conservative with the Durthu. The block of 20 dryads hit like a truck with frozen kernel and took out 16 chainrasp first turn of combat...

He didn't had anything to deal with the Durthu. But combined with a few failed battleshock he was too far ahead with the objectives and i lost. But its a good experience!

Thanks for the advices

Glad you had a good test run with the list! 

To be honest though, the game as a whole doesn't really function that well at 750pts.  At those point levels, lists are really limited and games can be decided by the first combat. May wanna push for 1000pts minimum next time! 

 

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7 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

To be honest though, the game as a whole doesn't really function that well at 750pts.  At those point levels, lists are really limited and games can be decided by the first combat. May wanna push for 1000pts minimum next time! 

Very true. 750pts makes it too easy to build a skew list, even inadvertently, as no one has enough points to cover all the bases. Factions which can take elite infantry as battleline do very well at lower points. 

1000pts is better, but you might want to think about using the Meeting Engagement rules from the 2019 GHB. They push everyone towards a balance list and the related scenarios work well with smaller lists on a smaller table. 

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2 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Glad you had a good test run with the list! 

To be honest though, the game as a whole doesn't really function that well at 750pts.  At those point levels, lists are really limited and games can be decided by the first combat. May wanna push for 1000pts minimum next time!

Yes that's my goal!

We already agreed to a 1000 pts revenge :)

Got some kurnoth Hunters Arch Revenant and Drycha which opens me up more options to build my army.

My next problem will probably to get some wyldwood trees as I proxied  them last match...

 

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On 11/25/2019 at 4:14 AM, Trevelyan said:

The Dreadwood Sinister Ambush teleport ability is not considered a move. It happens at the end of the movement phase, so a unit cannot move after you teleport it, but otherwise there is no interaction. In fact, a unit can move before a teleport, for example if it is not in range of a hero and needs to get closer  to be the target of Sinister Ambush. 

There is no problem using Sinister Ambush on a newly summoned unit of Dryads. Whether it is a good idea to burn a command point to teleport a unit of 10 Dryads will depend on circumstance/the existence of unguarded objectives. 

Thanks for the note. Make sense. A follow up questions regarding our allegiance ability - can you move a unit of Dryads that has been summoned in this turn in-between the Wyldwoods? 

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13 minutes ago, Shmaravoz said:

Thanks for the note. Make sense. A follow up questions regarding our allegiance ability - can you move a unit of Dryads that has been summoned in this turn in-between the Wyldwoods? 

Not with the Allegiance ability to move one unit per turn through Wyldwoods. I believe the ability says (Instead of making a normal move), which means that if a unit is not eligible to make a normal move, it is not allowed to choose to do move through Wyldwoods instead.

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1 hour ago, Sleepa said:

Not with the Allegiance ability to move one unit per turn through Wyldwoods. I believe the ability says (Instead of making a normal move), which means that if a unit is not eligible to make a normal move, it is not allowed to choose to do move through Wyldwoods instead.

Not a 100% sure.... I agree, it says - "instead of making a normal move" - meaning that either you make a normal move or you teleport (i.e. you cant teleport if you' ve made a move). So technically, Dryads CAN teleport, as they satisfy the requirement: they havent made a normal move therefore they can teleport. Do you know what I mean? 

I also think there should be a Q&A on this. 

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It doesn’t work like that. Navigate realmroots is something that you do instead of making a normal move - it is essentially a special move. But if you can’t make a normal move then you don’t get to do something instead. 

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Skaven can use skitterleap and the gnawhole in the same turn, and i think both wording are the same as the wood and the summon.  I think those ability dont want you to move AFTER, but really don't care of what happen BEFORE them.

image.png.02ee7ae76b09e5bbe26d32beea3c5cf3.png

Edited by Saodexan

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The language is slight different. The gnawhole triggers at the start of the movement phase and “counts as” normal movement for those that use it in the subsequent normal movement phase But doesn’t requires normal movement because normal movement is not a thing that occurs at that point. Essentially, neither skaven ability “cost” movement, they both stop you from moving subsequently  

Navigate realmroots happens as part of the normal movement phase “instead of” normal movement, but if you don’t have movement available during the movement phase then you are stuck. 

The language could certainly be clearer. IIRC (and I may not) there was an FAQ on this for the previous edition of the battletome. It is possible I’m misremembering the FAQ, but I’ve never once seen summoned dryads navigate realmroots even when there was no opportunity cost (because we weren’t limited to once per turn). It is also possible that GW has had a change of heart given that navigate realmroots is now very limited and teleporting Dryads means not teleporting anything else - I would have no problem if that was the case. 

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Agreeing with everything @Trevelyan says above on summoned Dryad Teleporting. Yes, that's how it worked in the old tome, and I don't think the language has changed significantly to require a reinterpretation (unlike Throne Of Vines where it now omits anything about stacking).

Also compare these two:

Navigate Realmroots:

Instead of making a normal move in your movement phase, 1 friendly SYLVANETH unit wholly within 6" of an AWAKENED WYLDWOOD can navigate the realmroots. If it does so, remove that unit from the battlefield and then set it up again wholly within 6" of another AWAKENED WYLDWOOD and more than 9" from any enemy units.

Dreadwood Sinister Ambush:

You can use this command ability once during each of your turns, at the end of your movement phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly DREADWOOD unit wholly within 18" of a friendly DREADWOOD HERO. Remove that unit from the battlefield and then set it up again anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy units.

To me it seems clear that Dryads summoned that turn cannot be moved via Realmroots but can be moved via Dreadwood, which you are spending a CP for the privilege to do so. Also, you could move an ordinary unit (to get in range of a hero?) and then Dreadwood teleport them.

In turn 1, if I really want to teleport a blob of models, I've got three units of battleline available. Meanwhile, my summoning Dryads ensures I've always got at least 10 guarding the backline, and then once I've summoned another unit, the previous ones can run/teleport into the gaps left by my advancing army. The thing I don't like is it often results in having multiple blocks of identical looking Dyrads tightly looped around each other inside the wood.

In the next Sylvaneth book (v3, in maybe 2022 ?) I'd like Sylvaneth to generate one free teleporting token each turn. Dreadwood would allow you to spend CPs for teleporting tokens. Tokens can be spent on to teleport a unit instead of moving. Not going to happen, but would be super nice.

Edited by a74xhx
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Movemet through Wyldwoods? 

How do you guys play it? Are the three trees "impassable" objects? 

As the old citadel woods worked, with the removable trees, we would just move the models throug the woods (whule removing the trees). But with the wyldwood-model the trees are not "movable" and so models would have to move around the trees? 

:)

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How much value to people put on Durthu in Harvestboon? Played a quick game earlier and he absolutely wrecked.

I was quite lucky with rolls on his stomp so he kept charging into combat (to get reroll 1s), smacking around whatever he engaged with then using Seek New Fruit to just run away before his opponent could attack him back, not that was a problem as he normally had neutered most of a units threat with his initial attack.

 

Also tried Spiritsong Stave on my branchwraith along with Throne of Vines. I was quite happy with being able to cast both Vines and then either Verdant Blessing / Roused to Wrath with good reliability. Seemed to work pretty well.

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With Frozen Kernel artefact (Winterleaf) can we attack right away or the opponent activates next and then we attack for the second time?

I am pretty sure its back-to-back, but ran into a situation in the tournament last week, where there was a different view.

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7 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

What do i Need for a competetive 1000 points list focused on kurnoth hinters?

12 hunter 1 archrev 1 wraith and some forests.

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Do i dont Need any battleline Or Is there a way that kurnoth hunters count as battleline?

dont i also need Dryads for summoning? 
how much wyldwoods do i need?

can someone give me competetive 1000p List focused on kurnoth hunters with everything i need to buy for summoning and Woods?

want to start a sylvaneth army, But i want to plan it  right... 

Edited by Erdemo86

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Sadly you do need battleline. Unlike many other factions, we don’t have a glade that allows us to take elite infantry as battleline.

The most Hunters you could reasonably get would be 12 (800 points). You could then take 2x5 Spite Revenants as battleline (120) and a Branchwraith as leader and to summon Dryads (80). 

Realistically, you probably only want 9 Kurnoths (unit of 6 and unit of 3 - 600 points), and to take more battleline plus another leader. An Arch Revenant would be best with Kurnoths. 

You’ll want two woods to start and realistically two boxes of Dryads as they come 16 to a box but summon in units of 10. Plus anything else you add to the list. 

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On 11/28/2019 at 8:37 AM, Aekhold said:

Movemet through Wyldwoods? 

How do you guys play it? Are the three trees "impassable" objects? 

As the old citadel woods worked, with the removable trees, we would just move the models throug the woods (whule removing the trees). But with the wyldwood-model the trees are not "movable" and so models would have to move around the trees? 

:)

For the new Awakened Wyldwood models the trees aren't technically impassible.  You can actually climb over them, it just takes extra movement. However they definitely can mess up movements and charges. They are notorious for creating a bottleneck for my Kurnoth Hunters :( 

For the old citadel woods, I just leave the trees at home altogether. They are too bulky to transport.

I personally just ignore the circles on the citadel wood, but some on here actually prefer to treat the empty circles as if they were in-fact impassible. I don't think it really matters as long as you and your opponent treat them the same way. 

On 11/29/2019 at 3:36 PM, Shmaravoz said:

With Frozen Kernel artefact (Winterleaf) can we attack right away or the opponent activates next and then we attack for the second time?

I am pretty sure its back-to-back, but ran into a situation in the tournament last week, where there was a different view.

The frozen Kernel specifically activates right after you have attacked. So it is immediate. But do note that you have to announce you are using it at the start of combat. So your opponent will always know which unit will get to swing twice. So make sure to always activate them first! 

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Another tourney. Here is a quick rundown. List below

Game 1 vs Legion of Nagash: Huge mobs of skeletons moved onto objectives early and Arkhan killed Durthu with a super lucky curse of years on the top of turn 1. I was left reeling and just couldn't get him off the objectives. Major loss. 

Game 2 vs Slaanesh: I screened well and mitigated his turn 1 alpha strike. I countercharged and killed about 20 seekers with Eels, Spites and Drycha. Fiends whiffed vs Kurnoth Hunters and Hunters absolutely wrecked them in return. I summoned a Quicksilver swords and kept getting second turn so it just kept pounding his Keeper of Secrets lol. He actually had a solid early lead but I scored big on the bottom of turn 5 for a major win!

Game 3 vs Ironjawz; Again screening wins games. I screened with Spites, and countercharged with Eels and Hunters. The spites leadership debuffs were particularly brutal vs his Gore Gruntas. The deciding factor was charging his Boss on Mawcrusha with a Durthu +Gyrstrike, near a forest and near the frozen Kernel. I did something like 36 damage to the Maw Crusha after saves (and before impales!). After seeing that he politely conceded.  Major win. 

Winterfleaf

Outcast Battalion

-Durth w/ Ghyrstrike

-Drycha

-Branchwraith w/ Kernel

20 Spites

10 Spites

5 Spites

6 Kurnoth w/ Greatswords

6 Morrsarr Guard

Quicksilver Swords

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