AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Griffin839]

1 hour ago, ThalmorRepresentative said:

I know Winterleaf is the thing these days, but I'd appreciate any advice on this list. 

#Gnarlroot#

Are there any other endless spells I should consider swapping my current ones with?

 - Glade: Gnarlroot
LEADERS
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Nurtured by Magic
- Artefact : Chalice of Nectar
- Deepwood Spell : Regrowth
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
- Deepwood Spell : The Dwellers Below
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact : Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell : Throne of Vines
Branchwych (80)
- Deepwood Spell : Verdurous Harmony
UNITS
20 x Spite-Revenants (200)
15 x Spite-Revenants (180)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Scythes
BATTALIONS
Outcasts (100)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN
Spiteswarm Hive (50)
Vengeful Skullroot (40)
Gladewyrm (30)

 

I like Gnarlroot and I feel like your list is pretty strong as is.  

I like to give the chalice to my dryad making branchwraith and the spirit song stave to the ancient. That way the dryad summon is much more guaranteed and with two spells the general has more chances to activate the command trait,  healing more often.

I don’t like the Gladewyrm. The heal isn’t as necessary in Gnarlroot and the mortal wounds aren’t the best either. He is good for taking up space but there are better endless spells for that. So I run quicksilver swords if I want the mortal wound output to kill characters or prismatic palisade if I am looking to block board space.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Griffin839

[ThalmorRepresentative]

@Griffin839 Hi Griffin, thanks for that advice. Glad that you like the list overall. Will definitely be considering what you said about the artefacts and the Endless Spells. I can see how the Gladewyrm is the weaker of the Sylvaneth specific Endless choices, and I'm inclined to agree that another endless spell here would be good. I'll experiment with the pallisade and the quicksilver swords and see which ones I like the most.

Thanks 😀!

[Trevelyan]

2 hours ago, ThalmorRepresentative said:

I know Winterleaf is the thing these days, but I'd appreciate any advice on this list. 

#Gnarlroot#

Are there any other endless spells I should consider swapping my current ones with?

I personally quite like Gnarlroot. 

My immediate question concerns the Branchwych. I’m not convinced that she adds a lot by herself, and I’m doubly doubtful of her ability to successfully cast Verdurous Harmony on a reliable basis. You might be better giving VH to the TLA, and giving the branchwych (or a second ‘wraith) the relatively easy Regrowth. Giving Regrowth to Drycha is also an option as she’s most likely to need it, so casting on herself manages the LoS requirement wherever she is. 

Spiritsong Stave plus Throne of Vines on the Branchwraith is a viable combo. The alternative, for consideration only, would be to give the Branchwraith the Chalice and give the TLA the Vesperal Gem. If you expect the TLA to cast Awakening the Wood a lot then the Chalice is the better option, but if you see him as a pure healbot (including a VH bot if you swap the spells) then the Gem is more reliable, especially in conjunction with Nurtured by Magic. 

For endless spells, I’ve always been fond of Quicksilver Swords. It was a steal at 20 points and still valid at 30 as a possible alternative to the Gladewurm. The wurm is useful as a blocking base, but unreliable on damage or healing - although it can do a bit of both, it’s not the best at either. The Swords have a much greater effective range if you want something that can snipe enemy targets early. Gladewurm is still a good “safe” option for the points though. 

[Trevelyan]

49 minutes ago, Griffin839 said:

I like to give the chalice to my dryad making branchwraith and the spirit song stave to the ancient. That way the dryad summon is much more guaranteed and with two spells the general has more chances to activate the command trait,  healing more often.

I agree with you on the value of Quicksilver Swords, but you can only activate the command trait once per turn. The Spiritsong Stave gives you more chances, but the Versperal Gem is guaranteed.

The real question is whether the option to cast two spells with the TLA is worth the possibility of succeeding at neither (due to poor rolls or unbinding). I think it might be in some situations but that would depend a lot on spell selection and the other casters in the list - you could always have another caster going for volume while you keep the TLA reliable. 

[ThalmorRepresentative]

@Trevelyan A second wraith would probably be a better option, wouldn't it, for redundancy?

I do like your idea for giving the Treelord the Vesperal Gem, the Branchwraith the chalice, and giving Drycha the regrowth.  Then the second branchwraith something that is a little more unreliable, but like you said, increasing volume, like Treesong, Dwellers, or VH.

I'm feeling it😁.

Will definitely try the Quicksilver Swords, since both of you recommend it.

Question: I'm actually relatively new to AoS... how many Wyldwoods are ideal for any game? My initial thought is perhaps three?

Edited September 25, 2019 by ThalmorRepresentative

[Trevelyan]

8 minutes ago, ThalmorRepresentative said:

@Trevelyan A second wraith would probably be a better option, wouldn't it, for redundancy?

Question: I'm actually relatively new to AoS... how many Wyldwoods are ideal for any game? My initial thought is perhaps three?

Ah, the Branchwych. Such a nice model, but although I’ve got four (Fromm SC boxes) I’ve only ever assembled two, and I last played on in a list in... maybe early 2018? I can’t remember. If you have a second Branchwraith then that’s definitely the way to go - vastly more durable and redundancy on the summoning. 

I’ve yet to use more than four of the new Wyldwoods in a game, including the free placement at the start. I’m sure there are occasions where I’ll be glad to have more, but four seems like a practical upper limit and three is enough to start. The fourth Wyldwood is useful if you have it, though. It’s always the one that I place behind enemy lines for late objective grabbing when the opportunity permits. 

[The World Tree]

5 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

What makes you think that?

The Glades Allegiance Ability clearly states: “If your army is a Sylvaneth army you can give it a Glade keyword. All Sylvaneth units in your army gain that keyword.”

Technically, Ylthari’s Guardians would have two different Glade keywords if you run a Glade other than Oakenbrow. But since you only get any abilities for the Glade you pick (“If you pick one [Glade] from the list below, all units with that keyword benefit from the extra abilities...”) the Oakenbrow keyword is redundant. 

Interesting. In Stormcast it has a caveat discussing what happens if they already have one a stormhost keyword. But nothing of that kind with Sylvaneth. Makes you wonder what the point of it is on the warscroll at all. On the other hand it is good as it leapfrogs the clunkiness of having a unit in your army that doesn't benefit from the glade.

[Ian Wallsh]

On 9/24/2019 at 12:54 AM, Emissary said:

Kurnoth hunters and spite revenants are what you need.  At least 3 boxes of each.   And 3-4 Awakened Wyldwoods

Thanks. Yes I've had my eyes on Hunters for a while now, their almost definitely a mainstay of Sylvaneth.... 

[Ian Wallsh]

On 9/24/2019 at 1:02 AM, Frowny said:

You have a reasonable force.

The only thing you need are some forests. I would get 2, so you can teleport between them. A bit more ok investmemt still but a start all the same.

 

Something like

Treelord ancient

Durthu +relic

Treelord

Branchwraith

20x dryads

20x dryads

5x tree revenants

 

Probably you could adjust to 1250 or so and have a good game of it. It would be a reasonable army.

Next things to buy would be the trees as mentioned and then maybe just more of whatever you enjoyed. Or maybe some hunters so you can have tried everything

 

Thanks Frowny. I've read on some popular "Sylvaneth Strategy" Site (CD Stat?) that it might be that bit harder to summon Wyldewood due to enemies making it difficult.  With Tree Lord Ancient you get an extra "Free Wyldewood" with him in your List (as I understand it). 

As I am an un battle tested newbie I figured that any chance to get an auto - include Wyldewood in the game should be seized upon; especially as they are so fundamental to Sylvaneth mobility and game-control. 

Until I'm more confident and familiar with the Game mechanics of AoS o would probably take an Ancient and Acorn of Ages. Also I like Tree Lords (especially Ancients) Models 🙂 😳 

I must definitely invest in Wyldewood Models.... 😁 

Thanks for the list and advice, it's very useful  and gives me something to go on and aim towards.... 😁 

I appreciate any/all advice I can get... 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ian Wallsh

[Trevelyan]

15 hours ago, Ian Wallsh said:

I appreciate any/all advice I can get... 

Never eat yellow snow!

Also, don’t take too seriously everything that you read in some forums (other than here, you can trust everything you read here). It is theoretically possible to block all useful wyldwood placement, but it happens far less often than the armchair general community seems to think. You will often struggle to place a wood in the optimal position, and you will also need to plan ahead to have your casters in range of the spots you can use, but I’ve never played a game where I couldn’t place any woods anywhere useful. 

The TLA is still useful, but his guaranteed wood (and that from the Acorn) aren’t a direct solution to the placement problem, only to the reliability - if there is nowhere to place a Wyldwood then all the TLAs in the world won’t help you. They do allow you to place multiple Wyldwoods in an early turn before the enemy advances to block available space, but that also means that all your Wyldwoods will be close to your deployment (wholly within 18” for the TLA or 12” for the acorn). That may be all you need, of course, depending on the scenario. But you probably only really want one of those two options; I would suggest that you take the TLA and don’t worry about the Acorn. The TLA can cast Verdant Blessing to summon a third wood if you really need one. 

[NorthernNurgling]

Hi guys,

I've just started building a Sylvaneth 2k army primarily because of the beautiful models and me being an avid painter. I do have a problem however...

I love Tree Revenants - those models are amazing. Spite-revenants, much less so. Dryads, much, much, MUCH, less so.

But from my reading of the rules in terms of battleline choices, this looks like the reverse order of usefulness. I've currently got 20 dryads, and 15 revenants (unassembled). I'm accepting that I'll need the dryads for my Branchwraith to churn out, but is there a clear-cut winner for battleline?

My main opponent will be Ironjawz so I'm thinking 3x5 Tree Revs will be able to hang back then drop onto objectives in enemy territory late-game, but I'm sure they will die as soon as they get into combat. Is my only alternative big blocks of wood-hugging Dryads?  Can't figure out how to get the most value out of the battleline tax... 

I do intend to run TLA general and Drycha (because I own them!) and my rule-of-cool won't let me skip Alarielle… These plus a Kurnoth deathstar pretty much fills out a 2k list. 

Sorry to ramble, my actual question is: Is 3x5 Tree Revs a viable battleline selection for 2k?

Thanks!

[Ian Wallsh]

6 minutes ago, NorthernNurgling said:

Hi guys,

I've just started building a Sylvaneth 2k army primarily because of the beautiful models and me being an avid painter. I do have a problem however...

I love Tree Revenants - those models are amazing. Spite-revenants, much less so. Dryads, much, much, MUCH, less so.

But from my reading of the rules in terms of battleline choices, this looks like the reverse order of usefulness. I've currently got 20 dryads, and 15 revenants (unassembled). I'm accepting that I'll need the dryads for my Branchwraith to churn out, but is there a clear-cut winner for battleline?

My main opponent will be Ironjawz so I'm thinking 3x5 Tree Revs will be able to hang back then drop onto objectives in enemy territory late-game, but I'm sure they will die as soon as they get into combat. Is my only alternative big blocks of wood-hugging Dryads?  Can't figure out how to get the most value out of the battleline tax... 

I do intend to run TLA general and Drycha (because I own them!) and my rule-of-cool won't let me skip Alarielle… These plus a Kurnoth deathstar pretty much fills out a 2k list. 

Sorry to ramble, my actual question is: Is 3x5 Tree Revs a viable battleline selection for 2k?

Thanks!

Hmmmmm 

I'm new here too and gradually building a Sylvaneth Army. 

Unfortunately, I am of the opposite opinion of you and love the Dryads! 

I'm not sure about Revenant's as I haven't looked into them much.  However I believe (others here are far more knowledgeable and experienced) that Revenant's are far more useful than formerly and a combination of Tree / Spites might be do-able, im sure others here will assist - Good Luck with the Iron Jawz! 

[Dammitt_Jim]

13 minutes ago, NorthernNurgling said:

Sorry to ramble, my actual question is: Is 3x5 Tree Revs a viable battleline selection for 2k?

Thanks!

Spite-Revs are much more killy in the new Battletome and make pretty good battleline. They get up in your enemies face, hit hard but don't last too long. Tree-Revs are a little more nuanced in that they generally don't get used in a straight up fight. Due to their teleport ability they are great for capturing unguarded objectives and because they are cheap they are great for screening enemy charges to protect your more valuble models. Having 2x5 units of Tree-Revs in a 2000 point army wouldn't be a bad thing at all if they are used to good effect. 3 units may be too many though?

[Landohammer]

5 hours ago, NorthernNurgling said:

 

Sorry to ramble, my actual question is: Is 3x5 Tree Revs a viable battleline selection for 2k?

Thanks!

Yes, provided you have plenty of Hunters in your lists to make up for the lack of battleline bodies. Dryads and Spite Revenants add a lot to a list. Dryads are great for tanking, while Spite Revenants are great at killing things quickly. Tree Revenants are terrible at both.

They are objective grabbers only. Many people hide them for the first few turns of a game, only teleporting them to unguarded (or lightly guarded) objectives later on.

The biggest issue you will have with 3x5 tree revs is that you may not always have an objective for each unit to grab. In that case you will have 80-240pts of your army hiding and doing nothing. 

 

 

[NorthernNurgling]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I'll stick with the 3 units and keep one back for objective-grabbing. The other two will be charge blockers for Drycha and TLA allowing them an extra shooting/magic assault. I'll do a battle report when I first face the Ironjawz, although they will have their new rules by then so I'll probably just be cradling a bunch of snapped twigs like Rocket at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy I...

[Trevelyan]

With the caveat that we’ve not seen exactly what Orruks look like in the new book, I suspect that Tree Revenants will have value against them both as charge blockers and objective takers. 

One of my regular opponents is an Ironjaw player. The default plan of most Ironjaw armies is to move up as fast as possible and crush you beneath a tide of green. Positioning Tree Revenants to limit their new movement tricks and/or to take advantage of the space they may leave behind them (or just threaten to, and so keep the horde from advancing as swiftly) are both valid tactics. 

All that said, you may want at least one solid Dryad unit as a buffer between your Kurnoth Hunters and the Ironjaws. I strongly doubt that Tree Revenants alone will stop them. 

[The World Tree]

 

So, Envoys of the Everqueen. How does this rule work? Obviously things like the TLA or Alarielle's Command Ability's always affect them and radiate from there. Are there other ways to use this ability?

[Trevelyan]

17 hours ago, The World Tree said:

So, Envoys of the Everqueen. How does this rule work? Obviously things like the TLA or Alarielle's Command Ability's always affect them and radiate from there. Are there other ways to use this ability?

I’m not sure that I understand the question. Envoys is pretty straight forward now - “If a friendly Sylvaneth hero uses a command ability, friendly Sylvaneth units wholly within 12” of [a unit of Kurnoth Hunters] are treated as being in range of that command ability.”

It works with any command ability used by a Sylvaneth hero and potentially increases the range of that ability. The list of abilities depends on which command abilities you have available. 

If you want to know which command ability I use most, then it’s the Arch Revenant’s Call To Battle, either directly on the Kurnoths (always wholly within 12” of themselves) or occasionally using them to relay the ability to Durthu. 

[Pennydude]

21 hours ago, The World Tree said:

So, Envoys of the Everqueen. How does this rule work? Obviously things like the TLA or Alarielle's Command Ability's always affect them and radiate from there. Are there other ways to use this ability?

I thought that those abilities would radiate from TLA/Alarielle but I'm actually thinking they don't.  You have to be wholly within 14" of Alarielle to get her ability and wholly within 12" of the TLA when you make your save to get the rerolls.  Those abilities radiate around the model that has the ability.  Kurnoths don't have that specific ability.  I plan on emailing GW to get some clarification though.  

[Landohammer]

2 hours ago, Pennydude said:

I thought that those abilities would radiate from TLA/Alarielle but I'm actually thinking they don't.  You have to be wholly within 14" of Alarielle to get her ability and wholly within 12" of the TLA when you make your save to get the rerolls.  Those abilities radiate around the model that has the ability.  Kurnoths don't have that specific ability.  I plan on emailing GW to get some clarification though.  

Alarielle's ability doesn't actually mention herself as the focal point, it actually says  "Wholly within 14 inches of a friendly model with this command ability"

It seems crystal clear to me. Units within 12" of Kurnoth hunters are considered to be within range.  You are trying to apply the conditions of the original text to an ability that is specifically breaking those conditions. 

I mean the ability is called "Envoy of the Everqueen". Of course it affects the Everqueen lol. 

[Emissary]

17 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Alarielle's ability doesn't actually mention herself as the focal point, it actually says  "Wholly within 14 inches of a friendly model with this command ability"

It seems crystal clear to me. Units within 12" of Kurnoth hunters are considered to be within range.  You are trying to apply the conditions of the original text to an ability that is specifically breaking those conditions. 

I mean the ability is called "Envoy of the Everqueen". Of course it affects the Everqueen lol. 

I think the issue more is that it sounds like he's thinking that Alarielle's command ability is radiating off the Kurnoth Hunters.   It's being overread.

Envoys of the Everqueen doesn't radiate the command abilities.  It simply makes you in range of them. .  So if the command ability states that it affects allies within 14" of Alarielle (even though it doesn't mention her specifically), Envoys would simply make a model across the table count as being within that 14" of Alarielle and so get the effect of the command ability. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Emissary

[Pennydude]

Yea, I'm probably reading too much into it but it's not clear as day to me yet.  

[CanHammer-darren]

Its badly written tbh

[Pennydude]

1 minute ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Its badly written tbh

Just needs some clarification.  I'm glad they made it more flexible than it used to be especially with the Arch-Revenant now.

I'm looking at trying out LHW's latest list locally to try out how nasty a block of 9 Scythes with Spitehive charge buff and Arch-Rev's buff.

[Trevelyan]

2 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Its badly written tbh

It’s perfectly clear. 

Alarielle is a Sylvaneth Hero with a command ability, Ghyran’s Wrath, that reads: “You can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase. If you do so, you can re-roll wound rolls of 1 for friendly Sylvaneth units while they are wholly within 14” of a friendly model with this command ability.”

Kurnoth Hunters have an ability called Envoy of the Everqueen: “If a friendly Sylvaneth hero uses a command ability, friendly Sylvaneth units wholly within 12” of this unit are treated as being in range of that command ability.”
 

A unit wholly within 12” of the Hunters is treated as being within range of Ghyrans Wrath. What is remotely ambiguous about that?