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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

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1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

Question for the community:

I’m assembling a second TLA in anticipation of putting a LotC in Gnarlroot, and ideally I want it to have a different pose from my original TLA (the standard pose per the instructions). 

The treelord kit obviously contains the full range of joints for any of the three poses, and there are plenty of age pictures of standard treelords in the TLA pose. But I’ve not seen any pictures of a TLA in either the treelord or the Durthu pose, and the head/beard alone looks like it might limit options. 

Has anyone tried using the other joints for a non-standard TLA who is able to confirm/deny whether it works? Are some options more viable than others or does the TLA really only work in one pose?

Thanks in advance. 

I'll put up pictures of my 2 later today when I get home from work.  It takes a little putty, but not much at all to work

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1 minute ago, Murder Pancake said:

probably a stupid question, but with the way terrain is being set up now and the new woods able to be fielded in groups of 3-6 trees, how many of the new trees should I expect to need? I am planning to order four as that's about what I can afford right this moment.

Four boxes, giving you 12 trees, should be enough to get started. I find that table space gets limited after the first turn anyway, so one free placement (3 trees), two turn one summons (TLA plus a spell - 6 trees) and one subsequent spell (3 trees) is as much as you’ll probably need. 

There will inevitably be occasions where you’d like to summon more, or when you can put down a bigger wyldwood than the minimum 3 tree size earlier, though. So longer term I expect you’ll want more. 

There is always the solution that Aezeal and I were discussing a few posts back - get a Deepcut Studios mat (around the cost of a single box) and cut out template trees. For friendly games they should give you plenty. 

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1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

Question for the community:

I’m assembling a second TLA in anticipation of putting a LotC in Gnarlroot, and ideally I want it to have a different pose from my original TLA (the standard pose per the instructions). 

The treelord kit obviously contains the full range of joints for any of the three poses, and there are plenty of age pictures of standard treelords in the TLA pose. But I’ve not seen any pictures of a TLA in either the treelord or the Durthu pose, and the head/beard alone looks like it might limit options. 

Has anyone tried using the other joints for a non-standard TLA who is able to confirm/deny whether it works? Are some options more viable than others or does the TLA really only work in one pose?

Thanks in advance. 

I just remembered I had these 2 pictures that show the ancients.  They're not great to see exactly how they look but it does show the one that is more of a durthu pose.  I'll still put up better pictures later today.

KMQvXmU.jpg

 

brAM8K2.jpg

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So what do we think is the best way to expand on the looncurse box? I’m thinking I’ll be building the units out as Tree-revs, and thinking to add another couple of boxes as well as a couple of boxes of Kurnoth hunters. So this is where I am at the moment:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Arch-Revenant (100)

Battleline
10 x Tree-Revenants (160)
10 x Tree-Revenants (160)

Units
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows

Total: 1020 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 70
 

Any suggestions on how best to build this up to 2000 points?

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn’t recommend two units of 10 tree revenants just yet. I’ve got enough for that myself but have never fielded them as two 10s (and rarely as more than 2x5). You probably want some Dryads as proper tarpit infantry, and spite revenants have a lot going for them in the new book too. 

1x6 Scythes Hunters is a very solid choice. 

What you really need are more leaders and those Dryads. On that basis I’d recommend that you pick up two Start collecting boxes. That gives you two treelord variants (make one ancient and one Spirit of Durthu) and 32 Dryads (make 3 as branch nymphs for maximum versatility).

You’ll also get a couple of Branchwyches. Having one is occasionally useful. I can’t see needing both.

What you really want is a Branchwraith for summoning.  Some people convert a Wych into a Wraith (giving you a use for that second Wych) otherwise you need to hit the GW web store.

And you can always get some sword Hunters  (two units of three) as an alternative/addition to your scythes. 

Edited by Trevelyan
Adding “n’t” can be essential

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I love spites now.  1-2 units of 5 tree revenants is about all you ever need.

Also, kurnoth hunters with bows are a trap.  I strongly feel you should go with units of 3 swords or 6 scythes with them.

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What do you guys think about the new Sylvaneth dice from GW? 

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5 minutes ago, Atreyu said:

What do you guys think about the new Sylvaneth dice from GW? 

I think they look like some of the most creative and fun dice GW has done whilst bieng a bit more practical than the squig-dice. I fully expect them to vanish from the shelves very fast

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@Trevelyan @Emissary

whats the draw behind the spite-revs? Is it a price thing? Haven’t seen anything from the new book yet.

what kind of balance should I be looking at numbers wise between battleline and kurnoths?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Kelsicle said:

@Trevelyan @Emissary

whats the draw behind the spite-revs? Is it a price thing? Haven’t seen anything from the new book yet.

what kind of balance should I be looking at numbers wise between battleline and kurnoths?

I've been going with 1 unit of 15 spites, 1 unit of 5 spites and 1 unit of 5 tree revenants or spite revenants for my battlelines in the book depending on how my points are. 

Every list I've used has had 1 unit of 6 scythes and 1 unit of greatswords and I will bring a 2nd unit of greatswords on occasion.  They are so good with an arch revenant in support and the glade effects now.

Spites are good because they're cheap plus 3 attacks each hitting on 3+ and wounding on a 3+ is quite good.  And their -1 bravery and reroll successful battleshock tests for enemies has worked on occasion as a bonus.  Factor that with dryads having to stay wholly within 6" of a wyldwood for the -1 to hit and it lowered their profile from before a little, though they're still good and usable.  Tree revenants are still only good for teleporting to take objectives or act as blockers in my experience.  If they had the strike first the guardians originally had they'd be good.  Pity they didn't get it and the guardians lost it.

Edited by Emissary

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1 hour ago, Kelsicle said:

@Trevelyan @Emissary

whats the draw behind the spite-revs? Is it a price thing? Haven’t seen anything from the new book yet.

what kind of balance should I be looking at numbers wise between battleline and kurnoths?

Emissary covers most of it. Spites change to 3+/3+/-/1 in the new book, and at 200 points for 20 they are much more efficient damage dealers than Dryads. Dryads still have value as a tarpit (Spites are a lot squishier) but we’ve got genuine battling options now. 

Tree revenants are great at a few specialist roles, but absolutely can’t stand up as an actual battleline. 

I largely agree with other recent comments on the Hunters. I typically play 6 scythes and 3 swords. Where I disagree is on bows. 

People tend to dismiss bows because they aren’t great damage dealers (either because they’ve correctly assessed the warscroll or found out the hard way in play). I find that bow hunters work well putting out reasonable damage where you need it ahead of the charge phase.

Scythe Hunters will murder things in combat but can get bogged down with a few chaff models (something that tree revenants do well at for us). Having a unit of bows available to clear the chaff and leave the scythes free to charge into a higher value target can be very useful.

They are also great at blunting the edge on quite a few enemy behemoths. All behemoths see a harsh drop in performance when they take damage, but the very first drop on the table is often the largest (as with our own Durthu going fro flat 6 to d6 damage). Having a unit that can reach out and give that sort of target a love tap from 30” away is often very useful. I’ve had my scythes survive a charge in part thanks to the help of their bow companions. Just don’t expect the bows to clear serious threats at range. 

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2 hours ago, Emissary said:

I've been going with 1 unit of 15 spites

Isn't 15 the objectively worst number of spites to take in a unit? Why not spring for 20, or the smaller/easier footprint of 5/10?

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6 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Isn't 15 the objectively worst number of spites to take in a unit? Why not spring for 20, or the smaller/easier footprint of 5/10?

Yea 20 spites is definitely the magic number. It cost only 20 more points to get 5 more bodies. 

If your going to take 15, it would be better to just take a unit of 10 for a whopping 31 attacks. Then use the other 5 guys to meet battleline tax. At 60 points, they are one of the cheapest batteline units out there. 

Dang, I am continually impressed at just how good Spites are now. Especially with Glade rules (Dreadwood and Winterleaf come to mind) and an Arch Revenant. 

However we may see some wonky spite numbers in the meta for a bit since nobody currently owns any. 😝

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I tried out the new tome yesterday

Winterleaf

300 TLA, general, required trait, healing spell

100 Archrevenant, artifact

80 branchwraith, throne of vines

80 branchwraith, 

270 dryads x30

200 dryads x 20

200 spite revenants x 20

80 tree revenants x5

400 scythe hunters x 6

200 sword hunters x3 

50 spiteswarm hive

1960

Casual game, knife to the heart, against stormcast

Knight azyros, heraldod, Lord arcanum on cat, 3x evocs on cats, 10x evocators, 2x5 sequitors, 5 judicators with xbows, 2x ballistas

Lots of things to learn on my part.

1 First, if you want to alpha with the hive, put it down before you tree jump. I also failed to remember my exploding 6s THE ENTIRE GAME not did I remember to use the fight twice seed. Made it a lot harder on myself

2 gotta spread out to stop deepstrike alphas 

3 new TLA is more of a toolbox, but I think will be a staple of my lists.

4 spites are very useful now.

5 dryads are still useful. And  Big blocks with a 3rd attack from the arch revenants still do work. Not as flashy as the shiny new spites but I was not disappointed

6 wholly within is a thing. I gotta watch out.  6inakes summoning trees and then jumping a little easier though

Questions

The 2nd block of dryads and the sword hunters could be exchanged I think. I'd like a 3rd hammer to balance out the spites and scythes. I did like the 2nd tarpit though and the multiple big units helped the Archrevenant shine. Any thoughts on other things to use instead?  I would also like a 2nd unit of tree revenants I think. Bit don't know how to fit them.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Freejack02 said:

Isn't 15 the objectively worst number of spites to take in a unit? Why not spring for 20, or the smaller/easier footprint of 5/10?

Lol, it's because they are 180 while 20 is 2000.  The lists I'm using clock in at 1990 and I can't afford it.  I wanted a larger unit and 15 has functioned well for me.

 

2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

I largely agree with other recent comments on the Hunters. I typically play 6 scythes and 3 swords. Where I disagree is on bows. 

People tend to dismiss bows because they aren’t great damage dealers (either because they’ve correctly assessed the warscroll or found out the hard way in play). I find that bow hunters work well putting out reasonable damage where you need it ahead of the charge phase.

Scythe Hunters will murder things in combat but can get bogged down with a few chaff models (something that tree revenants do well at for us). Having a unit of bows available to clear the chaff and leave the scythes free to charge into a higher value target can be very useful.

They are also great at blunting the edge on quite a few enemy behemoths. All behemoths see a harsh drop in performance when they take damage, but the very first drop on the table is often the largest (as with our own Durthu going fro flat 6 to d6 damage). Having a unit that can reach out and give that sort of target a love tap from 30” away is often very useful. I’ve had my scythes survive a charge in part thanks to the help of their bow companions. Just don’t expect the bows to clear serious threats at range. 

I agree that it would be good for the bows to get some wounds on large threats.  My problem is that for 200 points you've got a unit that averages just under 3 wounds on a 4+ model (unless you buff the bows at all with rerolls to hit).  3 wounds is the target number just to knock a large target off its first row on the damage table.  I don't usually roll great and will usually roll just under average which is 2 wounds which doesn't do much of anything to soften up a large target before it gets to me.  I've never run into a game where by the end I wished I had bows over swords, but every game with bows leaves me wishing I took my 2nd unit of swords.    

The shooting from the ancient(s) and/or durthu plus spells is usually enough for me to clear the chaff or weaken large targets but aren't totally worthless in melee. 

It's just opinions, but I've never had them do anything really meaningful in a game other then finish off something with 1-2 wounds unless they rolled stupidly above average.

Edited by Emissary

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6 hours ago, Murder Pancake said:

probably a stupid question, but with the way terrain is being set up now and the new woods able to be fielded in groups of 3-6 trees, how many of the new trees should I expect to need? I am planning to order four as that's about what I can afford right this moment.

4 seems like a decent number. 2 mandatory. With space concerns it is going to be a struggle to get many in.

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2 hours ago, Emissary said:

It's just opinions, but I've never had them do anything really meaningful in a game other then finish off something with 1-2 wounds unless they rolled stupidly above average.

I find they do better in some cases than others. Historically I liked them as an option for Alarielle to drop once I’d seen what I was facing. 

I’ve not has much like using treelord variants to clear chaff. Durthu tends to be engaged which limits target choice, and I’ve always had horrific luck with the TLA - even on 2+/3+ I seem to miss an alarming number of attacks. Bow hunters always seem more reliable and flexible. Plus they realistically get two rounds of shooting against a lot of armies, whereas shorter ranges likely only get one.  

It is definitely circumstantial. Locally I play a lot of games against Orruks (with a Mawkrusha), FEC and Tzeentch/Slaanesh. Against those there are frequently advantages from more ranged attacks. two rounds of bow hunters plus one of the treelord family can make a big difference. Against other factions the utility may vary. 

Mom balance, I think that bow hunters could easily stand to be 180 or even 160 points. When they help, they are invaluable. But I agree that they don’t always help. 

On occasion I’ve used them as uber-chaff. Once they’ve run out of viable shooting targets (say by the third round) I occasionally find them useful just to charge into an enemy. They really won’t really hurt, but that can often tie something up for two rounds when a unit of tree revenants would just melt. And the hunters can still inflict a few wounds at close range on the way out. 

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3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

I find they do better in some cases than others. Historically I liked them as an option for Alarielle to drop once I’d seen what I was facing. 

I’ve not has much like using treelord variants to clear chaff. Durthu tends to be engaged which limits target choice, and I’ve always had horrific luck with the TLA - even on 2+/3+ I seem to miss an alarming number of attacks. Bow hunters always seem more reliable and flexible. Plus they realistically get two rounds of shooting against a lot of armies, whereas shorter ranges likely only get one.  

It is definitely circumstantial. Locally I play a lot of games against Orruks (with a Mawkrusha), FEC and Tzeentch/Slaanesh. Against those there are frequently advantages from more ranged attacks. two rounds of bow hunters plus one of the treelord family can make a big difference. Against other factions the utility may vary. 

Mom balance, I think that bow hunters could easily stand to be 180 or even 160 points. When they help, they are invaluable. But I agree that they don’t always help. 

On occasion I’ve used them as uber-chaff. Once they’ve run out of viable shooting targets (say by the third round) I occasionally find them useful just to charge into an enemy. They really won’t really hurt, but that can often tie something up for two rounds when a unit of tree revenants would just melt. And the hunters can still inflict a few wounds at close range on the way out. 

I understand the terrible luck shooting with the ancients.  I have it too. I've been using Gnarlroot to help even it out as the reroll 1s to hit also affects shooting.

I think bow hunters at 180 may still be overpriced but at 160 would be closer to where they should be.

Also, the thing with the updated Alarielle's summoning is that you can use it after she uses her massive movement which allows you to get some sword hunters closer.  I also think summoning a treelord to have a stomp near her may have merit also.

Lastly, here's those promised pictures of a Treelord Ancient in a different pose.  You need a little putty on the waist and neck as the joints don't fit perfectly but it really isn't bad at all.   I also added a Durthu in a different pose for anyone curious as well.

Z76NuUW.jpgwHdXDid.jpgiI4tXU0.jpgWBUHYte.jpgBu8z5LU.jpgnDq1TKO.jpg

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I still think people are underestimating the potential value of a full unit of 30 tree-revs. They aren't particularly efficient, but the ability to teleport anywhere on the board with a built in charge reroll will massively complicate things for your opponent.

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2 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I still think people are underestimating the potential value of a full unit of 30 tree-revs. They aren't particularly efficient, but the ability to teleport anywhere on the board with a built in charge reroll will massively complicate things for your opponent.

420 points is a huge commitment, even if they are very mobile. 30 bases (32mm) with 1" range, even with the extended pile-in is tough to manage in combat - and if they don't produce big on that charge any counterattack will annihilate them. I'd like to see a large group in action, but I don't see it being worthwhile. 

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Hey guys, 

I'm planning on diving into Sylvaneth Sylvaneth with the new book coming out, what are the go to units I should plan on getting now with the new book  :)?

thanks in advance for your help 

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8 hours ago, Emissary said:

Lastly, here's those promised pictures of a Treelord Ancient in a different pose.  You need a little putty on the waist and neck as the joints don't fit perfectly but it really isn't bad at all. 

Thanks. That looks exactly like the pose I had in mind!

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4 hours ago, Grudgebearer said:

Hey guys, 

I'm planning on diving into Sylvaneth Sylvaneth with the new book coming out, what are the go to units I should plan on getting now with the new book  :)?

thanks in advance for your help 

Welcome to Sylvaneth!

My advice depends a little on your budget because sylvaneth can be an expensive army. But here are some suggestions:

My advice would be to get 1-4 start collecting boxes. You get tree lords/ TLA/ Spirit of Durthu, lots of dryads and few branchwyches. 

2-3 awakened wyldwoods

Then you can consider getting alarielle/ Drycha/ Branchwraith and Kurnoth hunters. There are obviously killer lists you can make with a horde of 60 spite revenants. But that will cost quite a bit and it will be pretty unidimensional, especially if you don't like spite revenants! 

What kind of play style do you like? and what units do you like the look of? 

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15 minutes ago, TreelordRecent said:

Welcome to Sylvaneth!

My advice depends a little on your budget because sylvaneth can be an expensive army. But here are some suggestions:

My advice would be to get 1-4 start collecting boxes. You get tree lords/ TLA/ Spirit of Durthu, lots of dryads and few branchwyches. 

2-3 awakened wyldwoods

Then you can consider getting alarielle/ Drycha/ Branchwraith and Kurnoth hunters. There are obviously killer lists you can make with a horde of 60 spite revenants. But that will cost quite a bit and it will be pretty unidimensional, especially if you don't like spite revenants! 

What kind of play style do you like? and what units do you like the look of? 

Thanks for your reply,

Money is basically not an issue, have been in the hobby for too long to bother about spending too much for miniatures :P

I generally like all the models, but would like to use spites as battleline rather than dryads (if that is a viable option/substitution)

I also really like the look of the Hunters with greatswords, more than the scythe Ones. 

And as far as I have read its good to buy some wyldwood boxes :)

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@Grudgebearer

In that case Absolutely!

I would still recommend the start collecting as you'll save money all round but maybe get 2 then?

Alarielle and Drycha are must haves. 

Regarding kurnoths it depends what you want them to do. I got a heartwood list where I have 3 bow hunters that beefed up to the max do on average 17 wounds versus a 4+ save unit. If you want to take out a nagash or archeon and bathe in your opponent's tears they can be useful. Basically people are a bit divided in the forum but in terms of the general consensus for a unit of 3 kurnoths, go with swords, 6 kurnoths you'll have a bit of a split but most would go with scythes (there are ways to make 6 swords completely viable).

The sylvaneth endless spells are good as they can't be used against us. 

The woods are a must, and I just ordered 6 today... 

The new book basically allows us to make viable lists with any unit, so take your pick!

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