AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Wachamba]

31 minutes ago, Alpidur said:

Thanks guys, to all of you. So we can try to do this:

Gnarlroot

 

Warsong revenant (general, chalice)

treelord acient (generic artifact 5+ ward)

branchwraith 

Dricha

10 dryads

5 tree revenant

5 tree revenant 

6 kurnoth with scythes 

1 treelord

Choronomatic cogs

Spiteswarm give

 Need 45 point more…what can I take?

 

Battalions: warlord (Warsong, acient, branchwraith dryads, tree revenant) 

 

i Love treelord at all so I can put it with a lot of interest!  🙂

What do you think? I need to change the artifact? I think it’s a problem to me choose the best for the list

 

edit: to use warlord I need to put acient general…so I am confused 🙂)

 

re edit: what about umbreal spellportal?

Mb something like this:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Gnarlroot
- Mortal Realm: Ghur

Branchwraith (95) in Warlord
- Artefact: Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Treelord Ancient (295) in Warlord
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony
Drycha Hamadreth (330) in Battle Regiment
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Warsong Revenant (275) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Nurtured by Magic
- Artefact: Chalice of Nectar
10 x Dryads (95) in Warlord
5 x Tree-Revenants (80) in Battle Regiment
5 x Tree-Revenants (80) in Battle Regiment
6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Scythes (430) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
Treelord (190) in Battle Regiment
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96

 

Stave for more summoning, portal for Warsong MW bomb

[Arzalyn]

53 minutes ago, Alpidur said:

 Need 45 point more…what can I take?

As @Havelocke said you don't need to fill the points all the way up to 2000. Sadly Cogs and the Hive are the cheapest endless spells worth including (generally speaking, the palisade may be useful if you face too much shooting).

@Wachamba posted a suggestion with the spell portal and changing the artifact. I would suggest you pick the one that seems more interesting and do some testing starting with it and testing the other ones latter to see what playstyle you like more (the spell portal + warsong bomb or the cogs mass casting buff).

About the artifacts, a general rule of thumb:  if you have the cogs in your list you can go without the Spiritsong staff on the Wraith, the cogs do the same thing. If you go without the cogs the staff becomes much more desirable IMO, has getting those extra dryads from her spell help put more bodies on the table, which the list lacks.

[Voand]

Are we back to sleeping on Drycha with flaming weapon so soon after it got cleared up as legal?

Giving her that and lending some flexibility to all your other casters since the spell enhancement gives everyone a spell seems more valuable to me than the artifact.

Then again I'm a dummy.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

26 minutes ago, Voand said:

Are we back to sleeping on Drycha with flaming weapon so soon after it got cleared up as legal?

Giving her that and lending some flexibility to all your other casters since the spell enhancement gives everyone a spell seems more valuable to me than the artifact.

Then again I'm a dummy.

When did it get cleared as legal? A fellow dummy here, looking for clarification! 😛

Edited July 6, 2021 by acr0ssth3p0nd

[Pennydude]

Yeah, uniques can’t take universal spell lore spells.

[Emissary]

13 hours ago, Pennydude said:

Yeah, uniques can’t take universal spell lore spells.

I agree, but what's weird is that the Warhammer Community Army Builder is allowing uniques to take the universal spells.

[Pennydude]

3 hours ago, Emissary said:

I agree, but what's weird is that the Warhammer Community Army Builder is allowing uniques to take the universal spells.

Yes I know, that’s not managed by a GW employee. Uniques can only take their faction’s spell lore spells.

[Mirage8112]

18 hours ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

When did it get cleared as legal? A fellow dummy here, looking for clarification! 😛

Differing opinions on this. 

 

18 hours ago, Pennydude said:

Yeah, uniques can’t take universal spell lore spells.

I believe the rule is “uniques cannot take enhancements”. But it’s been faq’d that they can take spell enhancements. So that rule isn’t entirely true. The question is whether uniques can swap an allegiance spell for a generic one. I’d say evidence is 50:50 on that.
 

I’d really like to see another faq on this. 

[Pennydude]

It was FAQ’d that uniques can take spells from their faction’s spell lore by adding the “(including UNIQUE units)” caveat for the battletome spell lore. That language doesn’t exist for the universal spell lore.

[Trevelyan]

25 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

It was FAQ’d that uniques can take spells from their faction’s spell lore by adding the “(including UNIQUE units)” caveat for the battletome spell lore. That language doesn’t exist for the universal spell lore.

That could just as easily be an omission in the errata as a deliberate choice. It makes very little sense to selectively limit spelL selection. 

[Pennydude]

5 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

That could just as easily be an omission in the errata as a deliberate choice. It makes very little sense to selectively limit spelL selection. 

I don’t disagree but that’s the language we are working with for 4-ish weeks.

[Aezeal]

It kinda makes sense that uniques would be proficient in faction spell lore, they have specific items (or not) and should use their own spell lore.. so I'm ok with that rule as written.

[Alpidur]

Thank you guys! In this day I’ll try to make a list with your advice!!!!!

[Mirage8112]

A friend of mine posted this in regards to the Generic Spell lore and Unique character discussion. It essentially mirrors some of @Havelocke’s thinking that spell lores are given to the army and not the Unique hero’s themselves. As in, the unique heroes are not taking the spell: the army takes the spell and very hero gets to choose from the available spells:

 

 

[The World Tree]

On 7/7/2021 at 11:46 PM, Mirage8112 said:

A friend of mine posted this in regards to the Generic Spell lore and Unique character discussion. It essentially mirrors some of @Havelocke’s thinking that spell lores are given to the army and not the Unique hero’s themselves. As in, the unique heroes are not taking the spell: the army takes the spell and very hero gets to choose from the available spells:

 

 

This really feels like a stretch. Seems very clear to me that they can't. I understand the argument, but the simpler explanation that unique can't take or use enhancements is clear.

[Havelocke]

7 hours ago, The World Tree said:

This really feels like a stretch. Seems very clear to me that they can't. I understand the argument, but the simpler explanation that unique can't take or use enhancements is clear.

If that's the case, then I would argue that unique units also cannot be selected to benefit from your triumph, either. If you interpret 27.3.1 to mean that benefiting from an enhancement in any way is being 'given an enhancement,' then it has to apply to all enhancements equally, without a written exception.

I have no problem with someone interpreting the rules this way. It's straightforward and concise. I've shifted off of my own previous thinking a bit, due to the first sentence of Core 27.3, which says:

"Each set of allegiance abilities includes a number of enhancements that are given to specific units in the army..."

This indicates that all enhancements are considered to be 'given' to the unit that benefits, whether or not the wording is present in their respective rules sections.

 

The sidebar which emphasizes every wizard also doesn't feel like an explicit inclusion for unique units to me, because of the sidebar next to 27.3.1, which says that unique units cannot benefit from an enhancement they were forced to receive. This seems to be written for command traits, or situations where a unique is your only hero, but I think it could just as easily apply to the Spell Lore enhancement, which forces the unique unit to take a spell.

That spell then could be a faction lore spell, which includes a written exception for unique units, or a universal spell, which would then be ignored per the sidebar.

 

TL/DR: I think I was wrong. I have reasoned my way to the conclusion everyone else came to a while ago.

[keen]

I just had a closer look at the new GHB and have a question. Hopefully it wasn't discussed before... 

In section 27.4 it states:

"If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include a command trait and the general of your army has the keyword for that subfaction, then that command trait must be the one you give to your general. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact of power and any HEROES in your army have the keyword for that subfaction, then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power given to one of those HEROES."

Does this mean I can ignore the command traits and artefacts from our glades and use the generic ones, as none of the Sylvaneth models has the glades as a keyword assigned? 

So Durthu could always receive Gnarled Warrior (reroll saves of 1) and Amulet of Destiny (5+ ward save) as a general. 

 

Update: Ignore my question. The Battletome clearly states that every model within the glade automatically receives the keyword 😉

Edited July 10, 2021 by keen

[Quooch]

@Havelocke Did you play your game yesterday? 😄

[Grimbok]

What’s up with the new wyldwoods? 

 

Can you choose to set up less than 3 pieces? 

What if you summon a wyldwoood and you set up three individual pieces away from each other and you can’t place one of them. Can you set up the other two? How far away from other terrain, still 3”? How on earth am I supposed to set up 3 individual pieces within range of spell or ability with all 3 pieces more than 3” from all other terrain and objectives? How close to enemy models can I set up the pieces? 

So you can teleport only one unit per battle round and they have to be wholly within 6” right. But treelords can teleport in addition, but they only have to be within  6”, not wholly within?

If a monster destroys a wyldwood, does it mean I can’t teleport? Except for treelords, because it’s on their warscroll? 

So you can move a unit wholly within 6” and then teleport? But the treelords can not move, then teleport? 

What kind of mess is this? 

 

Grimbok

 

 

[Havelocke]

@Quooch Yeah! I'm writing up a battle report this morning.

[Havelocke]

BATTLE REPORT

As promised, here's a battle report from my first game of 3.0! There's not much to analyze, sadly, as the dice skewed *very* heavily in my favor. Still, I think I learned a few things, which I'll share at the end of the post.

Army Lists
My buddy wanted to play the Kruleboyz from his Dominion box, so we decided to play 1000 points each, to let him try out his new models.

Spoiler

ALLEGIANCE: SYLVANETH
 - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
 - Glade: Gnarlroot
 - Triumph: Bloodthirsty

Battle Regiment Battalion
Treelord Ancient (295)
 - Trait: Nurtured by Magic
 - Relic: Chalice of Nectar
 - Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (95)
 - Spell: Verdurous Harmony
5x Tree Revenants (80)
 - Protector Glaive
5x Spite Revenants (70)
3x Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows (225)
Treelord (190)

Endless Spells
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Total: 995 / 1000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54

Spoiler

ALLEGIANCE: KRULEBOYZ
 - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
 - Triumph: Bloodthirsty

Warlord Battalion
Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-Grot (125)
 - Trait: Master of Magic
 - Relic: Amulet of Destiny
 - Spell: (Not Sure)
Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (200)
 - Relic: Vial of Manticore Venom
Killaboss with Stab-Grot (140)
 - Skareshield
Murknob with Belcha-banna (115)
Man-Skewer Boltboyz (120)

Hunters of the Heartlands Battalion
10x Gutrippaz (180)
10x Hobgrot Slittaz (95)

Battleplan & Deployment
We rolled for our battleplan and ended up playing the Apex Predators battleplan. After setting up terrain, I chose to be the attacker and set up three wyldwoods on the edge of my territory.

Spoiler

Board Before Deployment

At this point, I was a little worried about the battleplan. In Apex predators, only heroes can contest objectives. I only had two in my list, while my opponent had four (more than the battlepack allows for, but he was playing the box and it was a casual game).

Moving into deployment, I placed my Treelords and my Branchwraith as close as possible to the center objective, and placed my tree revenants in my backfield. My spite revenants and Kurnoth Hunters were set up in reserves. My opponent set up his Gnashtoof and his Hobgrots on one flank, and his Gutrippaz, Murknob, and Killaboss on the other, with his Swampkalla and Boltboyz set up on the high ground terrain.

Spoiler

Board After Deployment

After deployment, I decided to take the first turn. I knew I would need to push my Branchwraith onto an objective and set screen her well, and I wanted to get my reserve units down (plus my Ancient buff) before my opponent could move up the board.

EDIT: Oh, no! I hit post too soon. Rest of the post coming shortly...

Edited July 10, 2021 by Havelocke

[Pennydude]

1 hour ago, Grimbok said:

Can you choose to set up less than 3 pieces?  

What if you summon a wyldwoood and you set up three individual pieces away from each other and you can’t place one of them. Can you set up the other two? How far away from other terrain, still 3”? How on earth am I supposed to set up 3 individual pieces within range of spell or ability with all 3 pieces more than 3” from all other terrain and objectives? How close to enemy models can I set up the pieces? 

I believe you can due to GHB Faction Terrain rules on pg. 15.  That rule states that if a faction terrain feature cannot be placed, it is not used.  When you place individual woods, they become three individual faction terrain features.  Therefore, the inability to place one tree should not affect the ability to place two other trees legally.

Others here may disagree with me, but following the GHB rules, faction terrain should be 3" away from other terrain and all objectives since those are additional restrictions to setup.  There are no additional restrictions when it comes to woods placement near models, so follow the ability that placed the woods.  In our case, that's more than 1" away from other models.  

I did get a game in with this and you can get trees down.  Rings will still be rare.  If you run the Warsong, more than likely you are running Umbral Spellportal.  Casting Verdant Blessing through will help immensely.
 

1 hour ago, Grimbok said:

So you can teleport only one unit per battle round and they have to be wholly within 6” right. But treelords can teleport in addition, but they only have to be within  6”, not wholly within?

This is correct.  Our old allegiance ability was changed to an "end of Movement phase" action where you can pick up one unit wholly within 6" and teleport them to another woods wholly within 6" of another woods and more than 9" away from all enemies.  This is different than before because now you can move to a woods and then teleport. Treelord variants get to teleport while being within 6" and happens when they move.

 

1 hour ago, Grimbok said:

If a monster destroys a wyldwood, does it mean I can’t teleport? Except for treelords, because it’s on their warscroll? 

Correct, a smashed Wyldwood is still a Wyldwood.  It removes all abilities on the terrain's warscroll.  Treelords can still teleport to/from them.  This also means you can teleport TO a smashed wyldwood but you cannot teleport FROM one.  Also, you can deepstrike units you set aside into a smashed woods.
 

1 hour ago, Grimbok said:

So you can move a unit wholly within 6” and then teleport? But the treelords can not move, then teleport? 

Correct unless you want your Treelord to use the Navigate Realmroots ability on the woods instead of its own Spirit Paths warscroll ability.



Honestly, I think these woods are great.  The fact that we can place three individual trees with a single use of Silent Communion or casting of Verdant Blessing really frees up magic space for the army.  With the Warsong Revenant being an extremely powerful caster (one of the strongest in the game), that's huge.

[Grimbok]

Thanks for the info. The ability to setup just one or two trees is very nice because there are plenty of terrain on my board. Seems like GHB might save us there (and I don’t want to buy and transport all those trees). 

 

Grimbok

[Grimbok]

Can a Warsong Revenant cast Verdant Blessing in Living City? 

 

 

Grimbok

[Pennydude]

9 minutes ago, Grimbok said:

Can a Warsong Revenant cast Verdant Blessing in Living City? 

 

 

Grimbok

No because Verdant Blessing is a part of the Sylvaneth allegiance abilities.