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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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17 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

+++ MOD EDIT +++ No leaked pictures please!

Interesting. From what I can see here, the woods appear identical.  They just added the Citadel Woods LoS rule directly to the warscroll to help clear up confusion.

EDIT: Nvm.  On the clearer zoomed in photo after this I can see the way damage is dealt at the end of the charge phase is a change!!

16 hours ago, the_master288 said:

It's more that GW should've done Pre-Orders farther in advance so that they can gauge the market better.  Wouldn't it be better for GW to have an adequate number of Pre-Order sales so that everyone who is interested could get a box?  I see no reason for them to not be able to take Pre-Orders further in advance, make a decision based on how many Pre-Orders to manufacture that many, and then add an extra percentage as "Extra Sales".  

It's ludicrous that some people on this very forum didn't even get their copy that they had "Pre-Ordered".  All because GW decided long ago that they were going to only do a release with X number of copies, instead of gauging just how much interest there was from a real "Pre-Order" system.  I also heavily doubt it takes GW 18 months from idea -> release.  They have the manpower and the skill to do projects at a faster pace than a Kickstarter would be able to.

Yeah FLGSs had their shipment cut back from what they were told by GW they would be able to sell.  As you said it seems there were people who preordered through their local store soon after preorders were available only to be told after launch their "preorder" was meaningless.

GW has already done the expensive time/ money investment by designing these sets and having manufacturing arrangements made.  Now it would just be up to them to get their s*** together as a business to figure out how to meet demand. It's as you said here though: 

20 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

All the excitement about releases and announcements would fizzle away by the time the models appeared.

They want to keep the "excitement" and pressure of demand up as high as possible, while lowering their risk as much as possible by purposefully low-balling demand.

Edited by RuneBrush
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9 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

Looncurse was a box supposed to bring NEW people into the hobby by giving them two semi-balanced forces to play with for the first time.

The most ironic thing about this is that totally new players to Warhammer would probably have been the least likely people to have been able to even see a copy of this box on the shelf of any store, let alone actually successfully secure a copy.

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8 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

The only reason this matters (or anyone cares)  is because of the arch revenant. Everybody keeps talking about, “how garbage t-revs are” and now they care that they cant get their hands on a bunch of t-revs all of a sudden? Give me a break...

If it matters all that much to you proxy a model until the arch-rev actually comes out. That way you don’t have to buy a bunch of units you probably won’t use, making whatever money you saved on the box totally pointless. 

Looncurse was a box supposed to bring NEW people into the hobby by giving them two semi-balanced forces to play with for the first time. GW clearly underestimated the sheer insanity that new plastic crack would create among established players; because quite frankly everyone freaking out about this needs to get hit in the head with a giant cartoon hammer and take a nap for a bit.  

I hear what you're saying completely.  My point is that if it was handled differently, GW would produce more, sell more, make more $ for the shareholders AND players would get what they want.  I don't see a downside to gauging the player base better.

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3 hours ago, the_master288 said:

I hear what you're saying completely.  My point is that if it was handled differently, GW would produce more, sell more, make more $ for the shareholders AND players would get what they want.  I don't see a downside to gauging the player base better.

You’re assuming that GW wants to sell a lot of these boxed sets. That’s really only going to be true if they are a way to clear overstock of existing sprus, which seems unlikely in this case given that a Sylvaneth is about to get another big sales push from the new Battletome and Gitz seem popular too right now.

In reality, these limited run boxes are a promotion and quite possibly a loss leader. Why would GW want to produce enough boxes to meet the full demand when they are selling the contents at significantly below the market price for the individual components? If they sold enough copies of Looncurse to appease anyone who wanted one or more Arch revenants, what would that do for the market afterwards?

People complaining that GW didn’t produce enough boxes are really complaining that GW didn’t make enough for them to buy everything they wanted at discount prices. If all you want is an arch revenant or two then you can pick them up on eBay for less than half the cost of the box (ie cheaper than a share of full Sylvaneth content). How many people who wanted the Sylvaneth still sold the Gitz (or split the box, which is fundamentally the same thing - they weren’t buying Looncurse as an intro set, they were plundering a discount box for stuff they wanted and selling the stuff they didn’t to minimise their net spend.

Not that I’m suggesting this is morally wrong, it’s the way this hobby frequently works. I just think the level of indignation is strange when the complaint is that people can’t buy the box at a discount and sell off the stuff they don’t want because someone on eBay bought it to sell on first, and the suggested solution from some people is that GW produce enough discount boxes, at increased cost to themselves, to make everyone happy. Some people even think this would make good economic sense!

 

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12 hours ago, daviseford said:

I developed a nifty online tool last week that might help you guys with your battles in the future. As a Seraphon player, I was always stressed that I was forgetting to do things in the right phase.

So, I developed AoS Reminders. It has Seraphon, Gloomspite Gitz, and most importantly, Sylvaneth!!!!

Check it out here -> https://daviseford.com/aos-reminders/

Basically, you add your units, battalions, command traits, realmscape features, and artifacts, and you will get an ordered list of what abilities to use during which phase. Sylvaneth has been heavily requested since I launched this tool - since I play against Sylvaneth a lot, I know how many rules you guys have to remember ;).

I hope this cheat sheet helps you be more efficient (and win more battles!)

Please give it a whirl and let me know if you enjoy it! I would LOVE some feedback and critiques! If you notice that a rule is wrong, please either tell me here or post it as an issue here

8nk5zh9.png

P.S. it is print-friendly! When you hit print, all of the fancy UI elements are stripped out and you get a list like so:

QVAMYvw.png

This is fantastic - thank you very much! Not sure when my next game is but will certainly be trying this out. Will save a lot of time for me trying to figure it out and then writing it in my notebook.

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13 hours ago, daviseford said:

I developed a nifty online tool last week that might help you guys with your battles in the future. As a Seraphon player, I was always stressed that I was forgetting to do things in the right phase.

So, I developed AoS Reminders. It has Seraphon, Gloomspite Gitz, and most importantly, Sylvaneth!!!!

That’s spooky timing! My opponent on Wednesday mentioned your tool, suggesting it looked good but only covered Seraphon. Great to see it also covers Sylvaneth now too!

Overall, it looks fantastically useful. My two immediate thoughts are:

1) would it be possibly to make the names of the units involved more prominent, especially in the “during the game” section? I can see that you have the names after each ability (“Because you have...”) but it is probably easier to swiftly locate applicable abilities if the name of the unit is immediately obvious.

2) Can you add command abilities for specific models in the appropriate phases?

Also, while you’re here, can I add a request for adding Ironjaws to the tool? My opponent is an avid Ironjaws player and was very positive about the tool and would definitely appreciate it! He also suggested that if you made the code available then he (and likely others) would happily add content for other factions.

 

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7 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

20DEAA32-651E-4E4D-9F75-77A87DF846BC.jpeg.6a65e2584ff355638890ec0aa352c6ff.jpeg

Not sure uts a buff or bot.

It's less effective against hordes, it's not gonna kill as many ogres or trolls either.

On the other hand it will hurt characters and monsters now and proxies every charge phase.

It's less of a deterrent against charges and none against running (and last game for example I was happy it kept 10 skullreapers moving slowly on one side of the ta

ble).. but I think it might actually deal more damage during a game.

 

15 hours ago, daviseford said:

I developed a nifty online tool last week that might help you guys with your battles in the future. As a Seraphon player, I was always stressed that I was forgetting to do things in the right phase.

So, I developed AoS Reminders. It has Seraphon, Gloomspite Gitz, and most importantly, Sylvaneth!!!!

Check it out here -> https://daviseford.com/aos-reminders/

Basically, you add your units, battalions, command traits, realmscape features, and artifacts, and you will get an ordered list of what abilities to use during which phase. Sylvaneth has been heavily requested since I launched this tool - since I play against Sylvaneth a lot, I know how many rules you guys have to remember ;).

I hope this cheat sheet helps you be more efficient (and win more battles!)

Please give it a whirl and let me know if you enjoy it! I would LOVE some feedback and critiques! If you notice that a rule is wrong, please either tell me here or post it as an issue here

8nk5zh9.png

P.S. it is print-friendly! When you hit print, all of the fancy UI elements are stripped out and you get a list like so:

QVAMYvw.png

Will try it out,  sounds promising 

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42 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Not sure uts a buff or bot.

Overall it’s probably a nerf from a strategic standpoint. Standing around (and importantly running/charging through) a wildwood now has a maximum downside of d3 wounds. That’s a risk that I suspect is far more manageable than the chance of losing multiple models on a bad roll. In many cases, even 3 wounds is less than the wound total of a single model that had the same chance of just dying under the old rules. 

It does discourage generally standing around woods. Whether that is enough to compensate for the relative freedom to charge trough them remains to be seen, but I suspect not. 

The other nerf is hidden in the text for Roused by Magic - it no longer triggers if the spell is unbound. 

There might be more flexibility over the shape of larger woods. Three models really only allows for one to show a concave edge (based on the external mass of the tree) but larger woods might enable some more complex shapes to fit around terrain. Time will tell. 

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3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

I just think the level of indignation is strange when the complaint is that people can’t buy the box-

Let me interject there- the complaint is that GW is so poor at delivering on basic customer expectations that people who literally preordered the set were told after release they will not be getting even 1 copy.  Let alone the regular disappointed people who wait years for a sylvaneth-set only to find out they “sold out” 2 days into pre-order... To be honest, what I find “strange” here is the lengths people bend over backwards to in order to defend, justify and explain away customers getting outright shafted instead of just acknowledging that GW could handle things a lot better than this. That’s all.

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2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

That’s spooky timing! My opponent on Wednesday mentioned your tool, suggesting it looked good but only covered Seraphon. Great to see it also covers Sylvaneth now too!

Overall, it looks fantastically useful. My two immediate thoughts are:

1) would it be possibly to make the names of the units involved more prominent, especially in the “during the game” section? I can see that you have the names after each ability (“Because you have...”) but it is probably easier to swiftly locate applicable abilities if the name of the unit is immediately obvious.

2) Can you add command abilities for specific models in the appropriate phases?

Also, while you’re here, can I add a request for adding Ironjaws to the tool? My opponent is an avid Ironjaws player and was very positive about the tool and would definitely appreciate it! He also suggested that if you made the code available then he (and likely others) would happily add content for other factions.

 

1.) Yes, I've added a ticket for it (I'm out golfing today but may be able to get it done tonight)

2.) Yes, I originally didn't add command abilities for every model (not sure why, looking back), so I need to go back and flesh that out

3.) Ironjawz is on the roadmap

4.) The code is public! I've actually got another contributor already helping out, and I welcome any and all pull requests here: https://github.com/daviseford/aos-reminders

I appreciate the feedback, and tell your friend thank you for trying out the early version of the tool :D 

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40 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

To be honest, what I find “strange” here is the lengths people bend over backwards to in order to defend, justify and explain away customers getting outright shafted instead of just acknowledging that GW could handle things a lot better than this. That’s all.

Who was “outright shafted” here exactly? The absolute worst that happened to anyone is that they couldn’t buy a discounted box of plastic miniatures because someone else got their first. No one paid for something they didn’t receive (if they did then that’s a problem for the retailer).

Your definition of how to “handle things better” seems to amount to GW providing unlimited cheap stuff to anyone who wants it. 

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2 hours ago, Allornone said:

Apparently itunes released the book early and someone is leaking it. Image

I presume it was already taken down, given how this sort of thingy tends to go? Also the image you posted is broken for me at least. 

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Well they look strong!

What is annoying me about the faction endless spells though is that they can be predatory, not be dangerous to the casters side and be cheaper/ similar in points to the generic ones - most of which are a bit ****** because YOU summon them then the opponent can utilize it.....

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7 minutes ago, Charlo said:

Well they look strong!

What is annoying me about the faction endless spells though is that they can be predatory, not be dangerous to the casters side and be cheaper/ similar in points to the generic ones - most of which are a bit ****** because YOU summon them then the opponent can utilize it.....

But the bad effect doesn’t affect sylvaneth. And the good ones, don’t affect the enemy. I don’t know how I feel about drycha though...

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8 minutes ago, Walkirriox said:

But the bad effect doesn’t affect sylvaneth. And the good ones, don’t affect the enemy. I don’t know how I feel about drycha though...

exactly. It's just always a positive.

Whereas you take something like a burning head - it can damage all models and buffs all models....!

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Just now, Charlo said:

exactly. It's just always a positive.

Whereas you take something like a burning head - it can damage all models and buffs all models....!

Just like judgments. You either make all faction spells damage all, which means Khorne judgments damage Khorne too, or neither. 

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48 minutes ago, romhi said:

It looks like the leaks will force their (GW) hands to at least make an update about the situation. At least I feel like that is what happened after the battletome cover was revealed a week ago.

Good! :D

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