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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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On 5/11/2019 at 11:07 PM, Aezeal said:

So my game yesterday against a list with 4 thirsters with my winterleaf list was the complete opposite of the week before.. I TRASHED him... but now he he had terrible rolls (for example: after getting 3 hits  with his thirster and his wound rolls (2+ for rend -2  and damage D6) where 1,1 and 1) and I had decent ones (and last week I had bad rolls and he good rolls) so I'm not feeling that proud. 

But I was thinking about winterleaf a bit.

I'll start with my current list:

OLD WINTERLEAF

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwraith (80)
- General
- Trait: Warsinger 
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages 
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri 
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
Forest Folk (140)
Winterleaf Wargrove (90)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
 

It was a bit geared towards beating 4 bloodthirsters so hunter loadout is not neccesarily fixed. Alarielle would summon 3 more bows and pop her CA when everything is in combat (turn 2 in my experience). The lamenteri wraith would sit on my backline within 12" of a wood trying to summon dryads. The other one would at least pop a forest turn 1 with the acorn. I LOVED the rerolls against chaos and I loved exploding attacks especially in our own turn.

Now since today (Looncurse) every Sylvaneth list (especially one with hunters) basicly needs an archregent. In THIS list Archregent would be nice next to bow.. but buffing a BIG unit of dryads is also nice. Since he can't be exchanged 1:1 with a wraith I'd say the list would become this:

LOONCURSE BASIC WINTERLEAF

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Arch-Revenant (100)
- General
- Trait: Warsinger 
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages 
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri 
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
30 x Dryads (270)
10 x Dryads (200)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
Forest Folk (140)
Winterleaf Wargrove (90)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
 

It would basicly function the same except archie buffs hunters on shooting a bit  turn 1(not needed against chaos since you'd have the RR already but against other armies it helps). After that he would probably need to get next to/in the middle of the unit of 30 dryads popping his CA every turn (preferably with hunters behind that unit still  wholly in 12".  That would give that unit a scary number of exploding attacks. Also.. you loose a spell from the wraith, no more healing.

But I was thinking about +1 to hit and all and I'm wondering what you all think about this:

WINTERLEAF with HURRICANUM

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Arch-Revenant (100)
- General
- Trait: Warsinger 
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages 
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri 
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
- Artefact: Goblet of Draining 
30 x Dryads (270)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
Forest Folk (140)
Winterleaf Wargrove (90)

Total: 1760 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

OR add

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

For

2000/2000

OR

20 x Dryads (200) --> or (170 if added to an existing unit)

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

for 

1970 or 2000 / 2000

 

 

I know the hurricanum was abandoned after it's points increase however.. it's synergy with winterleaf makes me wonder if it's not viable in here as the order unit of choice. Obviously.. I've dropped allariele for it.. but you keep 240 points so that  means you have the ability to get 3 more hunters AND geminids for some -1 stacking. 

You loose:

-Alarielle's great CA.

-Alarielle's 2 extra spells AND her damage spell (great spell)

-Alarielle in combat, shooting and healing.

You gain:

- Great ranged damage options (maybe get a unit of melee hunters instead of only bows)

- +1 hit bubble (NOT wholly within I think) which makes dryads attacks hit on 2+ (potentially RR 1's against chaos) and exploding on 4+ in your own turn.

 

About the item on the hurricanum:

I was thinking about gryphfeather charm (great defensive option) BUT this Goblet of Draining seems great too: I THINK it would give you a roll on EACH of the storms of shemtek AND on the spell (and in combat.. but probably only once right? Or once for each weapon?)

 

SO

1. In winterleaf would what would you think is best of the newer lists? Or are there other suggestions (maybe a build with 2 Arch revenants, getting a 2nd unit of 30 dryads instead of a unit of hunters - which would make geminids possible in the "looncurse basic list" btw)? (Yes Mirage.. suggesting a build with some Tree-Revenants is perfectly acceptable;  I've certainly been thinking about that too.. but dryads in winterleaf and with hurricanum just seem better).

2. If you favor the Hurricanum (or not) which item would you suggest (and do you agree on how often the goblet would potentially spark?)

3. Kit and spells for Archie and the wraith: other suggestions. I'd prefer having regrowth but that means you are stuck with 2 forests max (but if your wraith in in range of a forest - and it should always be ofcourse you'll probably try summoning anyway).

 

PM Archie cant have Acorn either ofc.

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So, is anybody else curious on how they might balance Kurnoths with Scythes and Spite Revenants? Both seem a little left behind in comparison to other units, specifically sword Kurnoths. Do you think they might redo their Warscrolls, or simply just change points further?

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Scythes and swords don’t seem too disparate even with mortal wounds. Don’t underestimate the value of 2” reach and -2 Rend. 

Spite revenants definitely need some work. But that was true even before the recent changes to other units. 

Edited by Trevelyan
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13 minutes ago, Murder Pancake said:

I wish they would just share the warscrolls for everything else since the books are delayed. I know it won't happen, but I would feel considerably more comfortable building new models if I knew what options were.

Agreed I haven't finished assembling Looncurse yet cuz I'm waffling on spite vs tree revenants. 

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16 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:

Here's a question for my photosynthesizing elders... how would you do ten tree-revenants? One big squad or two small squads?

Two small squads. Tree revenants don’t really work as standard tarpit infantry, that’s what the Dryads are for. If you really need numbers then you can teleport two units to a location (and increase the chances of at least one charge succeeding), but most of the time a group of five is enough for the objective grabbing and charge blocking that revenants should be doing. Plus two units give you far more flexibility in list building for the same points. 

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20 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

Agreed I haven't finished assembling Looncurse yet cuz I'm waffling on spite vs tree revenants. 

I'm not even going to build them on just warscrolls though.. need to know everything and mainly batallions and their requirements and effects.

 

2 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Yea your right. I’m so used to our support heroes being wizards. 

It's not needed for the right hand tables with realm items in malign portents though.

Edited by Aezeal
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I hope there will be a way to make kurnoth hunters battleline.

i want to start a sylvaneth army but want to go an elite way. Something like a bunch of kurnoth hunters with durthu, arch revenant and 2 drychas.

do we have any new informations?

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My "main" army is stormcast eternals. However i decided to buy a sylvaneth half of looncurse and start with sylvaneth as a secondary army to get a little more variety (especially considering painting. stormcast is really boring to paint IMO). Whats the best way to set up the units?

Which weapons should the  kurnoth hunters get?
What about the tree revenants?

After the looncurse box, waht would be a good path to upgrade my army to a solid 2k list?

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12 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

I hope there will be a way to make kurnoth hunters battleline.

i want to start a sylvaneth army but want to go an elite way. Something like a bunch of kurnoth hunters with durthu, arch revenant and 2 drychas.

do we have any new informations?

2 drycha's? 

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8 hours ago, IRifter said:

My "main" army is stormcast eternals. However i decided to buy a sylvaneth half of looncurse and start with sylvaneth as a secondary army to get a little more variety (especially considering painting. stormcast is really boring to paint IMO). Whats the best way to set up the units?

Which weapons should the  kurnoth hunters get?
What about the tree revenants?

After the looncurse box, waht would be a good path to upgrade my army to a solid 2k list?

Another looncurse if at all possible if not (or after) 2x start collecting. Then  (in no particular order) box of hunters, box of hunters, Drycha, Alarielle. And at some time in between.. more dryads, more dryads.

I think that with 3-4 boxes of dryads, 3 boxes of hunters, a few revenants, an arch rev (or 2),  2 treelords (build Durthu and TLA) and Drycha and alarielle you've got a good base (nearly finished even). But.. might want to wait to see what the book does. But as a first investement a start collecting can hardly be a wrong way to spend your money.

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Sylvaneth had a good run out this weekend at BOBO in the UK. 192 players, 8 Sylvaneth. Leo went 5-0 with Dreadwood, Placed 6th. Owen 4-1 with Winterleaf and placed 24th,  I went 4-1 with Gnarlroot and placed 34th. Really good to see the different style of armies able to compete at the top.

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In regard to leos list: 

https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/leo-rautonen-dreadwood-bobo-2019/

how is the Betrayers Crown on the Branchwraith useful? I thought you let your Branchwraith behind a screen of dryads to keep her safe. How do you use that combo? If the dryads charge in front of the wraith, the opponents models should never really be in range of the artefact.

Edited by Ruhraffe
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12 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Another looncurse if at all possible if not (or after) 2x start collecting. Then  (in no particular order) box of hunters, box of hunters, Drycha, Alarielle. And at some time in between.. more dryads, more dryads.

I think that with 3-4 boxes of dryads, 3 boxes of hunters, a few revenants, an arch rev (or 2),  2 treelords (build Durthu and TLA) and Drycha and alarielle you've got a good base (nearly finished even). But.. might want to wait to see what the book does. But as a first investement a start collecting can hardly be a wrong way to spend your money.

Thank you for the insight. Sounds like a good upgrade path to me. 

Does anyone here have experience with magnetizing the weapons of the kurnoth hunters? I´d like to test all of the weapon options but I hate playing a weapon thats not on the model

I read in a post earlier that the dryads can get to a 2+ hit. How do you do that? Which units/heroes do you need for that?

Edited by IRifter
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37 minutes ago, Ruhraffe said:

In regard to leos list: 

https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/leo-rautonen-dreadwood-bobo-2019/

how is the Betrayers Crown on the Branchwraith useful? I thought you let your Branchwraith behind a screen of dryads to keep her safe. How do you use that combo? If the dryads charge in front of the wraith, the opponents models should never really be in range of the artefact.

The betrayers crown can deal damage on enemy units on a roll per model basis right (book not here) If the enemy unit is valuable enough .. the wraith is only 80 points... just get here in there in a combination of blocking movement with a cheap unit (cheaper than 10 dryads) and doing hopefully massive amounts of damage. If you can't fit  Drycha this would be the next best thing. (assuming I'm corect about what the item does :D)

 

3 hours ago, AaronWilson said:

Sylvaneth had a good run out this weekend at BOBO in the UK. 192 players, 8 Sylvaneth. Leo went 5-0 with Dreadwood, Placed 6th. Owen 4-1 with Winterleaf and placed 24th,  I went 4-1 with Gnarlroot and placed 34th. Really good to see the different style of armies able to compete at the top.

As a former gnarlroot player (and I started that because I just LOVE the idea's of ubermagic trees): if you have about 2-3 hours for a long post (or something close) could you please tell me why you build the list that way and how you play it. (I can see how winterleaf and dreadwood work and score, my last winterleaf games I had nice damage output but I've a hard time to see how gnarlroot still works).

main Q's:

- Why no Alarielle

- Since 30" unbind I've been strugling to get much spells on the table (at first I was playing a 9 spell list and hardly got 1-2 each turn - when playing this list I DID play a lot against seraphon and gorepilgrims. These day I have non gnarlroot lists (3-4 spells per turn) and still playing Khorne a lot (thirsters with -2 unbind and overall more unbinds than I can cast spells. Anyway.. magic has been disappointing for me the last year. Do you deal a lot of damage with the woods even with spells that get unbound?  basicly:  do you deal with anti magic armies 

- How do you deal with hordes: my last game was against legions of nagash... and it was terrible. cheap units hardly dying and with tons of attacks .. and when 40 skellies are gone (I actually wanted not to kill them , just keep them low but.. "lucky" rolls made me kill the unit... ) they just come back at a grave site.

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5 minutes ago, IRifter said:

Thank you for the insight. Sounds like a good upgrade path to me. 

Does anyone here have experience with magnetizing the weapons of the kurnoth hunters? I´d like to test all of the weapon options but I hate playing a weapon thats not on the model

I read in a post earlier that the dryads can get to a 2+ hit. How do you do that? Which units/heroes do you need for that?

I have seen it done.. so .. it CAN be done.. I can't be bothered though. I've build one of each from each box I had (now 1 unit of each complete) and my group doesn't mind proxying different weapons at all.

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56 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

The betrayers crown can deal damage on enemy units on a roll per model basis right (book not here) If the enemy unit is valuable enough .. the wraith is only 80 points... just get here in there in a combination of blocking movement with a cheap unit (cheaper than 10 dryads) and doing hopefully massive amounts of damage. If you can't fit  Drycha this would be the next best thing. (assuming I'm corect about what the item does :D)

 

As a former gnarlroot player (and I started that because I just LOVE the idea's of ubermagic trees): if you have about 2-3 hours for a long post (or something close) could you please tell me why you build the list that way and how you play it. (I can see how winterleaf and dreadwood work and score, my last winterleaf games I had nice damage output but I've a hard time to see how gnarlroot still works).

main Q's:

- Why no Alarielle

- Since 30" unbind I've been strugling to get much spells on the table (at first I was playing a 9 spell list and hardly got 1-2 each turn - when playing this list I DID play a lot against seraphon and gorepilgrims. These day I have non gnarlroot lists (3-4 spells per turn) and still playing Khorne a lot (thirsters with -2 unbind and overall more unbinds than I can cast spells. Anyway.. magic has been disappointing for me the last year. Do you deal a lot of damage with the woods even with spells that get unbound?  basicly:  do you deal with anti magic armies 

- How do you deal with hordes: my last game was against legions of nagash... and it was terrible. cheap units hardly dying and with tons of attacks .. and when 40 skellies are gone (I actually wanted not to kill them , just keep them low but.. "lucky" rolls made me kill the unit... ) they just come back at a grave site.

Hey mate, I will do my best to get this written up. 

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In addition to that: Is there a compendium with useful Sylvaneth strategies? Writing a new one is probably not worth the time now as the new BT is knocking on the door, but that would be useful for sure. How to score with different wargroves and their typical lists, some synergies and how to play them out, etc. Would be an interesting read for sure, but a lot of work as well.

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