Jump to content

AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

That’s my experience too. 

Im not married to them as scenery pieces, but the Wyldwoods pull a lot of weight for the faction, and it’s not as if we are tearing up the competitive circuit even with the ability to drop terrain that simultaneously blocks LoS, provides cover, limits charging and has a range of buffs for pretty much every sylvaneth unit. 

Changing them, or dropping them entirely, is fine in theory. But it’ll take one hell of a rewrite to the rest of the faction unless they are replaced with something similarly effective, or we get a slew of other buffs. 

I’m curious to see what the future brings., but also wary insofar as terrain manipulation and teleport shenanigans is what attracted me to a Sylvaneth in the first place. 


^ All of this.

To be honest, the woods were a pain to set up and play with, and slowed down the experience of the game a lot. For a while, we were really unique as a faction, because we were the only ones with a dedicated terrain piece that provided buffs to our army. We also didn’t have to compete for table space (generally), because you could see from the outset where woods would fit and where they wouldn’t. 

But after deepkin rolled out we now had to start comepteting for where to drop our woods. Things got crowded, awkward and you could pretty much forget about dropping woods (in a way that was useful) after turn 2. In fact, even our allegiance teleport was of limited use past turn 3, as 9” requirement was easy to block off, and even if it wasn’t, 9” is a hell of a charge without some sort of buff/support (warsinger or cogs). 

The above is important, because in the heady days of AoS 1.0, you always always wanted first turn. The meta seems to have shifted to the point where you dont really want the first turn anymore, and our play mechanics got really messy given the way the game has changed. Do not get me wrong, we are still very competitive as we are. But our mechanics don’t dovetail neatly into what the game has become. 

I don’t really know what to expect, because the is a fundamental change to our army’s core game mechanic. They could take it in virtually any direction the want. They could make us healing based and give everything extra wounds (like Fryeslayers) with a regeneration mechnic to account for the loss of wood protection.  They could make use teleport to any piece of scenery or table edge (aka wanderers or skaven) they could do any number of things, and right now the only certain thing is that we’re in for a big change. 

Edited by Mirage8112
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:


^ All of this.

To be honest, the woods were a pain to set up and play with, and slowed down the experience of the game a lot. For a while, we were really unique as a faction, because we were the only ones with a dedicated terrain piece that provided buffs to our army. We also didn’t have to compete for table space (generally), because you could see from the outset where woods would fit and where they wouldn’t. 

But after deepkin rolled out we now had to start comepteting for where to drop our woods. Things got crowded, awkward and you could pretty much forget about dropping woods (in a way that was useful) after turn 2. In fact, even our allegiance teleport was of limited use past turn 3, as 9” requirement was easy to block off, and even if it wasn’t, 9” is a hell of a charge without some sort of buff/support (warsinger or cogs). 

The above is important, because in the heady days of AoS 1.0, you always always wanted first turn. The meta seems to have shifted to the point where you dont really want the first turn anymore, and our play mechanics got really messy given the way the game has changed. Do not get me wrong, we are still very competitive as we are. But our mechanics don’t dovetail neatly into what the game has become. 

I don’t really know what to expect, because the is a fundamental change to our army’s core game mechanic. They could take it in virtually any direction the want. They could make us healing based and give everything extra wounds (like Fryeslayers) with a regeneration mechnic to account for the loss of wood protection.  They could make use teleport to any piece of scenery or table edge (aka wanderers or skaven) they could do any number of things, and right now the only certain thing is that we’re in for a big change. 

I agree with this 100%. Terrain manipulation, placing forests and teleportation was what really made Sylvaneth unique (and beautiful models, of course) - even friends that I play with thought that this was really cool. I am definitely interested to see how the army will change - I mean, we still don't know the exact scope of changes. Maybe GW is just "upgrading" the Wyldwood model, but if they are changing the whole mechanic, then this is will be a significant change that may take the whole faction in a completely new direction/playstyle.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, I'd be happy with a simple change to the Wyldwood model, with no or only minor changes to the mechanics. 

Something like the Gnawholes, but individual big magic trees instead, would be great - you still get all the buffs and movement shenanigans etc, but they're much easier to transport and actually place on the table. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All things being equal (which.. they probably won't) that arch revenant would be sweet for a dreadwould alpha strike. His ability, Alarielle's command ability AND his command ability on a unit of 9 hunters would put the HURT on well.. EVERYTHING.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Hoseman said:

Ylthari guardians has 1 wound so don't expect 2 wounds for revenants. I thing exactly the same as u, I dont like dryads and I would love an aggressive army with revenants and kurnoths. I feel the hero aura of reroll hits of 1 for kurnoth would be great for revenants cause if they gain the Ylthari guardians abilities they will go re-roll wound of 1 and with 3+ fight first. 

 For now I see kurnoth going sooo damn good. re-roll all saves if dont move, the mortal wound mechanic, 5 wounds more for almost same price as 10 revenants, more damage and now reroll hits of 1 with arch revenant... 

For sylvaneth wyldwood I expect a pack of 3 trees that work on area

I think you can be pretty agressive with dryads, 30 of them are quite good at taking objectives (not actually killing what is there.. but some objective defended by 10 elitish troops.. you will just get it anyway, and the -1 to hit if you string a bit towards a forest helps surviving then). IF there is a forest in the middle you don't have to string that much usually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking something... we were the first army with terrain, NOW every new army comes with terrain and maybe we will have a terrain with cool mechanics.

Maybe we can put 3 trees as we are saying, and maybe they block line of sight on an area of 3 to 6". With this we can use those trees as it were our forest, and it would block almost the same area. 

Awaken the woods would work something like: choose a tree and blabla mortal wounds, and if is there any other tree near 6" it awakens too and hits near enemies.

 Setting a wyldwood can change to "set three sylvawoods" or "set one sylvawood". If this comes I see a huge table control too, just imagine the 6 trees separate on the battle and u can teleport into them.... very cool. 

 Also we don't know anything, maybe they don't change the wyldwood. As I see it I would like the change, if it is like I'm thinking of. 

 And we are forgetting something else, endless spells!!! We could have something like emerald lifeswarm but better bigger and cooler than let us turn to life Tree Rev or why not turning entire units to life. Something like LoN makes, when a unit is slain roll a dice and with 4+ u can set up the same unit on a graveyard (sylvawood or coolspore spell) and then of course they teleport to 6" of any of our sylvawoods around the map.

 Another endless of course would be ROOTS!!!! An area and everything there and 3" can't move or only moves 1".

 And a damage dealer spell, bugs or something. Like drycha magic but on endless spell.

 So how do u see it??? The regrowing Spore would be cool isn't it?? GW hear me I want it all!!!

Edited by Hoseman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly hope the woods change, I think a big re work would be required but it would be for the better.  Although I love the mobility there is certainly a way to maintain the dynamic play style without the clunkiness of the woods.  The other big issue with the woods is AoS does not have well defined terrain rules when I comes to movement.  When my opponent (or me ) is trying to engage in combat in a wood it becomes a nightmare or trying to figure out how to handle models that may have moved vertically etc.  

I would also state that even though its s totally valid tactic to zone out the board with a combo of woods and troops, its pretty un-interactive, and that seems to be what GW is trying to eliminate.  Lets hope for a rework that makes our army great, more fun to play against and eliminates some of the gray areas!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/30/looncurse-the-heroes-and-sample-armiesgw-homepage-post-1/

they did a list with 3 boxes and Alarielle. Is this a nice/strong list or just meh...? 3 * 10 revenant as battleline, are they resilient enough for this role?

No. Not unless something else changes (either damage output up or points lower - considering getting a +1 W seems unlikely due to warband warscroll). And preferably the price for a box of them too - though looncurse helps. Insane price for 5 not that big models.

Edited by Aezeal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Hoseman said:

Ylthari guardians has 1 wound so don't expect 2 wounds for revenants.

Why not ? The chosen axes were also 1 wound each and were upgraded at 2 wounds along with the  rest of the fyreslayers. The bloodcrushers had a new profile in wrath of rapture who got changed a few weeks later in the new khorne battletome. Sure, the release of the sylvaneth warband is much closer than the battletome, but they actually can change their profile on the battletome and i doubt anyone will complain that their old pdf profile become "obsolete"

Edited by ledha
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ledha said:

Why not ? The chosen axes were also 1 wound each and were upgraded at 2 wounds along with the  rest of the fyreslayers. The bloodcrushers had a new profile in wrath of rapture who got changed a few weeks later in the new khorne battletome. Sure, the release of the sylvaneth warband is much closer than the battletome, but they actually can change their profile on the battletome and i doubt anyone will complain that their old pdf profile become "obsolete"

But these are released at about the same time.. I think they'd have done it right away and not bothered about the rules they'll have for a few weeks. But who knows I guess you are right it's only a pdf that need changing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 wound each keeps the Tree Revs firmly in the glass cannon category. I'd very be surprised if they got moved out of that.  An extra attack or +3 to hit seems more likely.

Getting the first strike first ability of the Guardian's feels like that might be a good enough upgrade. I highly suspect the waypipes teleport ability will be dropped due to reworking of the woods. So, make first strike automatically work (instead of on 3+) whilst you have waypipes and I'll be even happier.

I hope Martial Memories is kept, but suspect it'll get dropped for the re-roll wounds of 1. Re-roll any single 1 per phase would be a better compromise.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what are lists doing well in tournaments these days? Winterleaf? Gnarlroot? Dreadwood?

Has anyone everytried an oaken brow list with a max size unit of revenants to sacrifice early and resummon on?

 

Edited by Aezeal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, a74xhx said:

1 wound each keeps the Tree Revs firmly in the glass cannon category. I'd very be surprised if they got moved out of that.  An extra attack or +3 to hit seems more likely.

Getting the first strike first ability of the Guardian's feels like that might be a good enough upgrade. I highly suspect the waypipes teleport ability will be dropped due to reworking of the woods. So, make first strike automatically work (instead of on 3+) whilst you have waypipes and I'll be even happier.

I hope Martial Memories is kept, but suspect it'll get dropped for the re-roll wounds of 1. Re-roll any single 1 per phase would be a better compromise.

 

Generally, I agree with this. 

It looks to me from the warscrolls for the shadespire warband, that T-rev enchanted swords are going to 3+/3+. Which (statistically) is a buff of about 10% in its own right (providing points don’t change). I think you’re right that asking for an extra wound is too much.  

I do like the martial memories as it is written now, but gaining first strike is a significant advantage, especially considering that T-revs are one of the few units in our army that has any sort of rend. I don't see them reworking martial memories into RR’s of 1, since the Ylthari’s guardians warscroll has it conferring first strike on a 3+. Waypipes providing some sort of way to make that easier is an investing idea, maybe not making it auto-hit, but possible rerolling for that ability maybe?  alternately we also have the banner to consider. Currently it gives a 6” pile in. It’s not super spectacular since piling in has so many restrictions on where you need to end your move. Since the shadespire warband has no waypipes or banners, we’ll just have to wait and see how that pans out. 

I’d really like to see T-revs keep their mobility, especially since combined with the arch-revenant they are a real threat to lone characters now. Popping that command point Makes that unit go from 7 to 12 attacks, (hopefully) striking first. Which means if you charge with both the arch rev and t-revs, they can all attack before their target does. That roughly 10 wounds on a target with a save of 4+.  Not bad when you consider that previously the same unit of 5 (with no arch revenants) only would do 3 wounds on the same target. 

You probably also wouldn’t need to worry about them getting swung back at right away; especially if you have a unit of 6 hunters ready to swing against another target. Wasting an activation to get those pesky revenants means letting the hunters swing at full strength and any opponent worth his salt will concentrate on them and ignore the revenants. 

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

Generally, I agree with this. 

It looks to me from the warscrolls for the shadespire warband, that T-rev enchanted swords are going to 3+/3+. Which (statistically) is a buff of about 10% in its own right (providing points don’t change). I think you’re right that asking for an extra wound is too much.  

I do like the martial memories as it is written now, but gaining first strike is a significant advantage, especially considering that T-revs are one of the few units in our army that has any sort of rend. I don't see them reworking martial memories into RR’s of 1, since the Ylthari’s guardians warscroll has it conferring first strike on a 3+. Waypipes providing some sort of way to make that easier is an investing idea, maybe not making it auto-hit, but possible rerolling for that ability maybe?  alternately we also have the banner to consider. Currently it gives a 6” pile in. It’s not super spectacular since piling in has so many restrictions on where you need to end your move. Since the shadespire warband has no waypipes or banners, we’ll just have to wait and see how that pans out. 

I’d really like to see T-revs keep their mobility, especially since combined with the arch-revenant they are a real threat to lone characters now. Popping that command point Makes that unit go from 7 to 12 attacks, (hopefully) striking first. Which means if you charge with both the arch rev and t-revs, they can all attack before their target does. That roughly 10 wounds on a target with a save of 4+.  Not bad when you consider that previously the same unit of 5 (with no arch revenants) only would do 3 wounds on the same target. 

You probably also wouldn’t need to worry about them getting swung back at right away; especially if you have a unit of 6 hunters ready to swing against another target. Wasting an activation to get those pesky revenants means letting the hunters swing at full strength and any opponent worth his salt will concentrate on them and ignore the revenants. 

  

Not sure about the sword since the guy in the warband has a great blade, which is modelled  (and named) differently than what the regular revs have.

Won't the command ability will be better on hunters or dryads anyway btw ? why waste it on revenants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im not sure how Revenants will work, but I'm in love with the Arch-Revenant and his abilities.

In my army he will be sitting with two units of bowkurnoths (hopefully they will have 3 attacks on the warscroll) for re-rolls. One unit of 6 swordkurnoths will be on the first line and they always be in range of Arch's Command ability anyways*.

 

*Or not. Did you notice the change of their ability? There's something about "within 12" " on the new scroll. I wonder how it will work...

Screenshot_20190501-195858.png

Edited by Heksagon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

Not sure about the sword since the guy in the warband has a great blade, which is modelled  (and named) differently than what the regular revs have.

 Won't the command ability will be better on hunters or dryads anyway btw ? why waste it on revenants.

It is modeled differently and named differently. I’m not saying the statline will be identical; but my guess is that’s why it has 4 attacks base rather than 2. The fact that it hints on 3’s is telling to me though, since the the protector glaive has the same profile in both warscrolls. The difference between “Enchanted blade” and. “Enchanted greatblade” is close enough for me to say that T-revs are going up in hit by 1. 

And why use it on T-revs? Because support characters and lynchpin war machines are big deal, and now that characters get -1 to hit vs shooting they’re tough to take out at range. Death banner bearers that give every unit a 6+ on wounds, skink starpreists, Celistar ballistas (+2 to save vs ranged attacks) are all difficult to take out at range, and are usually hidden deep in enemy territory. Hunters cant reliably reach them, because they’ll likely be screened from the front. Using the arch-revenant and an 80 point unit to take out a key support unit (and possibly capture an objective in the process) is hardly a waste.

I think the the arch revenant is a decent enough support unit to take 2, so there’s no reason why you cant do both. But consider the fact that CC hunters will probably be taken in packs of 6 (since the arch revenant only works on 1 unit, groups of three are not as optimal) and a group of 6 hunters dont really need help smashing things. Most of the time they do just fine on their own. so what’s a bigger waste? Using a command point on a unit that can already wipe whole units  by themselves, or using it on an “ok” unit to make it a near guaranteed character killer for a round?   

Edited by Mirage8112
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

And why use it on T-revs? Because support characters and lynchpin war machines are big deal, and now that characters get -1 to hit vs shooting they’re tough to take out at range. Death banner bearers that give every unit a 6+ on wounds, skink starpreists, Celistar ballistas (+2 to save vs ranged attacks) are all difficult to take out at range, and are usually hidden deep in enemy territory. Hunters cant reliably reach them, because they’ll likely be screened from the front. Using the arch-revenant and an 80 point unit to take out a key support unit (and possibly capture an objective in the process) is hardly a waste

Isee you point but can he teleport with them then? And will the revs keep the reroll for the charge?

Edited by Aezeal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Isee you point but can he teleport with them then? And will the revs keep the reroll for the charge?

We don’t really know how those mechanics work yet. But if T-revs keep some sort of mobility mechanic like waypipes, I imagine it working something like this:

Hunters charge a front line unit, with the arch rev in support. T-revs come in the backfield something like 9” away from a unit they’ll want to charge. Ideally you’d bring in at least 2 units of revenants in case your opponent wants to get shooty with one of them. Then in the combat phase, you can pop the Arch revenants command ability (if you want) to help the Hunters push through whatever they’re fighting. You wont want him within 3” of an enemy unit, because he’ll need to be free to to charge next turn. 

In the next turn, the hunters can be left to mop up whatever wasn’t destroyed the turn before, and the arch rev can fly, so he hops over the the intermediary enemy units to join the t-revs, and then combo-charges whatever you’re going after. 

It would take some planing, but the arch rev has a 12” move and fly. My hope is that we’ll maintain some sort of movement mechanic to help everybody get where they need to be, but everything is a big fat “?” right now. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Branchwraith (80)
- General
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri 
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages 
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
Forest Folk (140)
Winterleaf Wargrove (90)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
 

So wanted to try winterleaf. 

This seems a solid list but.. a bit of a waste of an artefact. Now.. in 2 weeks time Archie will be the obvious choice (while combining the hunters) and rather easy to fit in... But this Friday. . Shall I remove something (a lot) for a Durthu ( only real option for a 3th non unique char imho) or keep it like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm losing my mind right now.
SylvanethSpells-May2-Gladewyrm6jje.jpg

" While the necroquake has brought much death and misery to the Mortal Realms, it has also awoken ancient creatures and guardians akin to the spites to fight alongside the Sylvaneth once more. Gladewyrms, ancient protectors of the Realmroots, now fight alongside the Sylvaneth, called to battle like endless spells by those versed in the magic of life. "

Realmroots... hm... This may be a hint for our new Scenery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...