AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Kaylethia]

I'm down for a "stormhost" treatment for our army. I generally play smaller games, so I can't use battalions. Being able to get additional fluff without spending extra points sounds very cool.

Also, this looks to me like a concerted push away from tieing extra rules to battalions and therefore semi-mandatory one-drop battalions. 

[Future]

So while this unit is on the field tree revs get the fight at the beginning of battle round treatment? That looks super strong. Like an auto include.

[Kaylethia]

21 minutes ago, Future said:

So while this unit is on the field tree revs get the fight at the beginning of battle round treatment? That looks super strong. Like an auto include.

For the time being, only the Guardians. Although it does look like our regular tree-revenants will be getting the same treatment in the future.

[Future]

Why does it not apply to regular tree revs? It should the ability says any unit with martial memories. 

 

Martial Memories: Tree-Revenants are suffused with the echoes of their predecessors’ lives, and can draw on centuries of experience when they go to war.
At the start of the combat phase, roll a dice for each friendly unit with this ability that is within 3" of any enemy units. On a 3+ that unit fights at the start of the

 

the ability is called martial memories, that’s the key word as I see it. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Future

[Kaylethia]

The ability on the regular ones currently has the same name, but a different effect, which I don't think counts as the same ability. Then again, I don't believe we have a precedent for different "this ability" effects in the game. I think this is going to get an FAQ very soon. If you are right, then this is huge until we get a new warscroll for tree-revenants.

I'd say that you can cast two "The Reaping" spells as well, one for Ylthari and one for our spell lore, since they have a different effect for the time being.

I think this warband is a small preview into our updated rules, and later on tree-revenants will have the same ability with the same effect.

[Aezeal]

I was wondering whether our revenants (elite infantry) would get the fyreslayer treatment and get an additional would. This warscroll has only 1 wound for the grunts so I guess that is out. These guys do have more attacks per grunt than our regular guys have, the same as a champion... I guess it's too much to ask for all revenants to get that.. but it would really be what I think revenants need, I just don't like them as they are.

 

If that is our new The reaping it's a huge nerf btw. The reroll ws the hitting early is probably a small bonus but it's on 3+... which is kinda meh.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Aezeal

[Kaylethia]

16 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

If that is our new The reaping it's a huge nerf btw. The reroll ws the hitting early is probably a small bonus but it's on 3+... which is kinda meh.

I'm not so sure about that, are have there been any faction spell lore spells that are unique spells on warscrolls as well?

[Aezeal]

32 minutes ago, Kaylethia said:

I'm not so sure about that, are have there been any faction spell lore spells that are unique spells on warscrolls as well?

No I'm not convinced either.

BTW.. I think they aren't good enough to be playable. Basicly they are more expensive than a wych and 5 revenants and have about the same damage output but less wounds (faster drop in damage). The wizard is slightly better than a wych.. but not much so basicly she's worth 80 points... then it's 100 points for the other 3.. while they are not really better than 5 revenants. I don't see the teleport ability on the warscroll at all which is usually what people mention as the only real point in favor of revenants... so a real point against these guys. So now you have 100 points for 3 wounds which are even more glass cannons than the regular revenants but without teleport. Ow .. and not battleline.. the only reason I ever use tree rev's myself.

The shooting is ofcourse a nice addition certainly worth something... but 2 shots isn't really enough to keep the whole band out of combat..

Am I missing something? I doubt I'd play them for 160 points. Even at 140 I probably wouldn't use them since they aren't battleline.

Nice models though and an auto-buy anyway if only to have an alternative branchwych model (I know she's a thornwych). If I can get her cheap later I might even get another of the witch because I think combining her with a dryad would give me a great dryad champion (my biggest problem using them is identifying my branchnymphs)

[Aezeal]

3 hours ago, Future said:

Why does it not apply to regular tree revs? It should the ability says any unit with martial memories. 

 

Martial Memories: Tree-Revenants are suffused with the echoes of their predecessors’ lives, and can draw on centuries of experience when they go to war.
At the start of the combat phase, roll a dice for each friendly unit with this ability that is within 3" of any enemy units. On a 3+ that unit fights at the start of the

 

the ability is called martial memories, that’s the key word as I see it. 

I think warscroll only count for the models associated with them. The fact it's the same name might imply a lot.. but I think untill there are new treerev warscroll they'll use the ability on their own warscroll even if it's the same name. It hardly makes sense otherwise:

- would tree rev's keep their own ability in addition to this one?

- would tree rev's only get this ability when these guys are on the table? or always even if these are not on the table or not even in the army?

[a74xhx]

15 hours ago, Aezeal said:

No I'm not convinced either.

BTW.. I think they aren't good enough to be playable. Basicly they are more expensive than a wych and 5 revenants and have about the same damage output but less wounds (faster drop in damage). The wizard is slightly better than a wych.. but not much so basicly she's worth 80 points... then it's 100 points for the other 3.. while they are not really better than 5 revenants. I don't see the teleport ability on the warscroll at all which is usually what people mention as the only real point in favor of revenants... so a real point against these guys. So now you have 100 points for 3 wounds which are even more glass cannons than the regular revenants but without teleport. Ow .. and not battleline.. the only reason I ever use tree rev's myself.

The shooting is ofcourse a nice addition certainly worth something... but 2 shots isn't really enough to keep the whole band out of combat..

Am I missing something? I doubt I'd play them for 160 points. Even at 140 I probably wouldn't use them since they aren't battleline.

This. I see why their rules would be an iteration on existing rules to keep with the army theme. But I simply can't see any reason to use them. 180 points? Really?!?

Even doubt I'll pick up the models. Not that keen on the Wych. Have a kitbashed wraith, so no need for a counts as model there. And I already have 10 revenants I never use.

 

 

[Frowny]

I think if this is where revenants go all together it would be interesting. Fornme They kinda jump to a point all sneaky, usually end up in combat, kill 1 or 2 models and then die. This has the benefit of both making them less risky since you don't have to spend your first activation on them while also boosting their survivability by killing their target

I also think units of the revenant archers would be very strong. Imagine jumping them around from wood to wood. Gives them cover and forces enemies to charge into the woods while also allowing easy escape via woodstrike if they get charged so they can keep shooting. I had thought about trying that with hunters but it seemed a bit to expensive to use as a mainline tactic.

 

Relatedly i got destroyed by a mostly eel deepkin list the other day and even on my head replaying it I can't figure out how to kill them. Their lightning discharge easily brackets durthu or allarielle before I can attack and on the charge they can do 20 wounds to a 30 dryad block, which is the sturdiest thing for cost that sylvaneth can muster. fly and incredible mobility make screens hard and almost guarantees they get the charge if they want it....

I currently run harvestboon, allarielle, durthu, 50 dryads, 2 wraiths, and geminids. His list was 2x9 eels, assorted stuff that didnt matter because I died to the eels before it saw combat.

 

Maybe more magic? Ranged attacks seem promising since they aren't that sturdy...

[Xil]

On 4/20/2019 at 11:55 PM, Aezeal said:

...(my biggest problem using them is identifying my branchnymphs)

I glued the extra spites that come with our boxes (and bugs from Treelord) to the Nymph. It looks like the Nymph now has a little group following her. That makes her stand out as the leader, visually and thematically. 

[Kaylethia]

9 hours ago, Frowny said:

Maybe more magic? Ranged attacks seem promising since they aren't that sturdy...

Don't they have army-wide anti-shooting?

For mortal wounds, I've occasionally allied in a Knight-Incantor and Everblaze Comet in a Gnarlroot list. 

With your particular list, I would probably get more dryads in to blunt their assault. One of my regular opponents runs Disposessed with the pickaxe-irondrake combo, and that'll remove Durthu or Alarielle as well. 

How well has screening with your summoned dryads worked? They would seem like a good candidate to throw in front of them, as they'd be wasting damage. I don't have a Deepkin player locally, so I know next to nothing about them.

[a74xhx]

22 hours ago, Xil said:

I glued the extra spites that come with our boxes (and bugs from Treelord) to the Nymph. It looks like the Nymph now has a little group following her. That makes her stand out as the leader, visually and thematically. 

I give my Dryad leader a different colour around the sides of the base. Rest of them have have Rhinox hide, but the leader has whatever colour I have painted her leaf skirt.

In addition, every blob of 5 dryads has a different skirt colour. Although I'm not sure I should have done that as I'm starting to run out of schemes.

[AaronWilson]

I have heard June as a date for our new battle tome. 

[Xil]

18 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

I have heard June as a date for our new battle tome. 

Where? 

So long... At least I can catch up with painting 

[Zekefreed]

We could probably expect that the boxed Gloomspite/Sylvaneth box is in June also then. 

If slannesh is early May, that may mean we could see previews late may? Pure speculation here.  

[a74xhx]

On 4/23/2019 at 6:34 PM, Zekefreed said:

We could probably expect that the boxed Gloomspite/Sylvaneth box is in June also then. 

If slannesh is early May, that may mean we could see previews late may? Pure speculation here.  

It makes sense for the boxset to come first as it's probably going to contain a new mini (just the one!).

The Slaanesh vs Khorne boxset came out for Christmas and the updated battletomes came after.

But you should never expect GW to be consistent in what they do

So maybe the boxset next month? Or it's the boxset coming in June not the tome? Or they all get released at the same time? Exciting times!

[jaebird]

Hi folks! I recently started to collect some Sylvaneth and I picked up the SC Box. I have idea for a list, and I was wondering if you could check my thinking on this list.

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior
- Artefact: The Oaken Armour
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below

Battleline
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)

Battalions
Harvestboon Wargrove (100)
Forest Folk (140)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 52
 

So, the main idea of this list is to really practice movement, Wildwood placement, and working with Dryads. I found that trying to build a list without one of the Wargrove battalions made it feel like playing a game that lost out on a lot of the really important points of playing higher level Sylvaneth lists. So, while the Battalions are worth so many points, I think the extra CP and the artifacts, as well as having that really important control of deployment and early game, gives this list an edge that packing a unit of Hunters just doesn't. Plus, the Dryads were always my favourite Wood Elf kit, ha.

[a74xhx]

3 hours ago, jaebird said:

Hi folks! I recently started to collect some Sylvaneth and I picked up the SC Box. I have idea for a list, and I was wondering if you could check my thinking on this list.

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior
- Artefact: The Oaken Armour
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below

Battleline
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)

Battalions
Harvestboon Wargrove (100)
Forest Folk (140)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 52
 

So, the main idea of this list is to really practice movement, Wildwood placement, and working with Dryads. I found that trying to build a list without one of the Wargrove battalions made it feel like playing a game that lost out on a lot of the really important points of playing higher level Sylvaneth lists. So, while the Battalions are worth so many points, I think the extra CP and the artifacts, as well as having that really important control of deployment and early game, gives this list an edge that packing a unit of Hunters just doesn't. Plus, the Dryads were always my favourite Wood Elf kit, ha.

1000 points is tricky for Sylvaneth. I've yet to see a decent discussion on this thread for the way to go at anything below 2000 points (whereas I feel 2000 is has plenty of good strategies all well known).

That's a hell of a lot of points your paying for the battalions - 24%.  Although it might be the way to go. At 1500 I would definitely go the battalion option. 

For a Harvestboon 1000 points, there isn't much you can change. The list mostly writes itself.

Usually the Ancient is best used for when you don't have any decent wyldwood placing and you've got that sorted with the double wraiths. Although Oaken and Gnarled is going to make him solid in 1000 points, so maybe he really is the best option here.

Alternatively you could drop the Ancient and replace with Drycha and Soulsnare shackles / pendulum ? But doing that you can't use the Oaken armour and a Wraith will be your general. So then you could also drop Harvestboon, giving you an extra 100 points ...... to bump one group of Dryads to 20? Depends if you want the Harvestboon abilities, and have enough Dryads left over for summoning.

 

 

[Frowny]

At 1k I tend to just go with a lot of infantry which are excellent even without the wood support. And our cheap casters are quite effective

Branchwraith verdent blessing

Branchwraith verdent blessing

Branchwych the reaping, general: warsinger

3 hunters with swords or glaives

30x dryads

10x dryads

10x dryads

5x revenants

Artifact is likely the lametri on one of the wraiths or the circlet on the wych. Place the starter wood in the middle and then summon a other turn 1 on one of the flanks. I wish our spell Lore had more depth... I think it might also be reasonable to drop the second wraith for geminids too. Kinda swarmy and I think I'd enjoy more hunters. I find the big models are a little imalanced at such small game sizes so this is my more balanced approach

[jaebird]

Thanks for the tips! I think you don't see too much in the way of discussion of sub-2000pts stuff because of just how competitive Sylvaneth has been since the army came out. But I'll admit, I like the 1000pts game size so much more, even if just because it means I need to own fewer models, ha.

I have a few quick questions, actually. I recently got a really good deal on some Citadel Woods, so I have three of them now. The warscroll says a Wyldwood can be up to three of these bases; is it most common to start that placement with the three bases, or do people use fewer when using the warscroll?

Also, here's another list idea I've been thinking about. Heavy infantry lists are probably the most correct, but if FEC can do triple Terrogheist, what about Double Treelords?
 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Spirit of Durthu (380)
- Artefact: The Oaken Armour
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing

Battleline
10 x Dryads (100)
10 x Dryads (100)

Total: 960 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 49
 

[Aezeal]

On 4/22/2019 at 3:48 AM, Frowny said:

I think if this is where revenants go all together it would be interesting. Fornme They kinda jump to a point all sneaky, usually end up in combat, kill 1 or 2 models and then die. This has the benefit of both making them less risky since you don't have to spend your first activation on them while also boosting their survivability by killing their target

I also think units of the revenant archers would be very strong. Imagine jumping them around from wood to wood. Gives them cover and forces enemies to charge into the woods while also allowing easy escape via woodstrike if they get charged so they can keep shooting. I had thought about trying that with hunters but it seemed a bit to expensive to use as a mainline tactic.

 

Relatedly i got destroyed by a mostly eel deepkin list the other day and even on my head replaying it I can't figure out how to kill them. Their lightning discharge easily brackets durthu or allarielle before I can attack and on the charge they can do 20 wounds to a 30 dryad block, which is the sturdiest thing for cost that sylvaneth can muster. fly and incredible mobility make screens hard and almost guarantees they get the charge if they want it....

I currently run harvestboon, allarielle, durthu, 50 dryads, 2 wraiths, and geminids. His list was 2x9 eels, assorted stuff that didnt matter because I died to the eels before it saw combat.

 

Maybe more magic? Ranged attacks seem promising since they aren't that sturdy...

Screen the big units of dryads with small units of dryads. Get first strike with a ghyrstrik Durthy or Alarielle? MW through Drycha or Alarielle's spell? Or blunt their damage: this would be  a bit harder: stack -1 to hit with dryads near forests, possibly treelord stomp and the geminids?

And I guess 3 eels would be on par point wise with 3 hunters? Catching the attack on 30 dryads and loosing 20 and then counter charge with 9 swordhunters buffed by Alarielle's command ability would seriously put a dent in them... especially if Alarielle charges along with them.  

I know.. not all that easy to pull off but still.. during all that  you can still play the objective game.. 2 units of 9 of those means he can't have THAT much spread around the table. Also.. running or charging ending in a forest might hurt these guys.

[Aezeal]

12 hours ago, a74xhx said:

1000 points is tricky for Sylvaneth. I've yet to see a decent discussion on this thread for the way to go at anything below 2000 points (whereas I feel 2000 is has plenty of good strategies all well known).

That's a hell of a lot of points your paying for the battalions - 24%.  Although it might be the way to go. At 1500 I would definitely go the battalion option. 

For a Harvestboon 1000 points, there isn't much you can change. The list mostly writes itself.

Usually the Ancient is best used for when you don't have any decent wyldwood placing and you've got that sorted with the double wraiths. Although Oaken and Gnarled is going to make him solid in 1000 points, so maybe he really is the best option here.

Alternatively you could drop the Ancient and replace with Drycha and Soulsnare shackles / pendulum ? But doing that you can't use the Oaken armour and a Wraith will be your general. So then you could also drop Harvestboon, giving you an extra 100 points ...... to bump one group of Dryads to 20? Depends if you want the Harvestboon abilities, and have enough Dryads left over for summoning.

 

 

1000 points? I'd say Dryads and hunters and a wraith with the acorn and verdant blessing. I think those are they most point effective things we have; Alarielle and Drycha bring some added options but I think in 1000K points you should start with basic hitting power, staying power and bodies to get objectives. On 1K 1 or 2 summoned units are more important (this makes Seraphon very nasty on 1K) than on 2K.. (getting the lamenteri might be an option but I lately prefer the 100% forest from the acorn). 

[Wickie De Viking]

After playing just 2 1000pt games I was disappointed by everything but my Kurnoth Hunters with scythes. What a beasts! They are incredibly sturdy with their armor save re roll and deal insane amounts of damage! Cant leave em out!