AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Justinbot]

1 hour ago, Kaylethia said:

I don't know how many here have tried a unit of ten revenants, but I urge you to try them. Five aren't nearly as threatening as ten that can be almost anywhere on the field, with an average damage of 2-6 against AS4 without counting the 2-damage weapon on the unit champion or rerolling a single dice. 

Yeah I agree. With 10 models it's at least possible to do some damage, not so much with 5. It's all about that charge and alpha strike though because as soon as they get hit back it's all over for those poor tree spirits 😥 I'll have to give it a try but overall still seems like it's only effective in niche situations. Depending on what GW sees as their main role it would be nice if they had some sort of retreat mechanic, like a small chance to teleport away after piling in and attacking.

[Grimbok]

Tree revs hit on 4+, not 3+. Big differene.  And you can’t get 10 models to hit a single character. And that’s if you get the charge off. And they just die when they hit back, bravery 6 doesn’t help. They are just not good at 16 points a model. Dryads are more scary in combat, due to better reach. And are more survivable. Tree revs are grossly overpriced or underpowered, simple as that. Most people take 5 to fill battleline and threaten empty objectives... that’s it. 

A pity really with so beautyful models.

 

Grimbok

[Kaylethia]

My mistake, I thought they were 3+/4+. The average in the same. Tree-revenants can pile in 6, instead of 3, as long as their banner is present. A 20 model unit of dryads averages 6-7 wounds against AS4+ on our turn, and 5 wounds on the opponents. 

My point is that they offer rend, which is usually at a premium (treelords, hunters, alarielle, drycha, all at or above 200 points) for us, and they tie up opposing units even if they're not engaged with them. Shooting units suddenly need different screening. If they use a unit to screen the front and one side of their shooting unit to prevent us from trying to push our revenants into that unit, that gives us the change to send our dryads, hunters, Durthu, etc. into that screen and take less damage back. If they use two units to screen different sides, then we got our opponent to effectively remove one or more of their units from the game without fighting it. By having a unit with a huge threat radius sit in a corner or on a safe backline objective.

If they don't, we can try for the charge, and even if we don't kill all of that unit, many shooters have 5+/5+ melee profiles, and we limit their shooting to just the revenants for a turn while our more important targets don't get shot to bits and get healed. 

I'm not arguing that dryads are worse, just that revenants open up options and lines of play that our other units don't. 

[Lhw]

@Kaylethia interesting to hear you've had success with them in a unit of 10. I've looked at it a lot and thought it would have legs, but never actually got round to putting it on the table. Has that been as part of Gnarlroot? 

@Aezeal agree entirely with the Ancient and number of spells. 2 base just makes sense, and would make him a lot more viable outside of Gnarlroot. 

[Kaylethia]

@Lhw I've run them in battallionless 1k and Gnarlroot Comet spam in 2k. I hope they'll work out well once I finish another ten revenants and ten vulkites for Ironbark too. If it helps, my usual opponents are Ironjaws, Death, Beastmen, Mortal Khorne, and assorted beards.

 

[a74xhx]

Tree Revenants? Just keep them out of the battle, hidden behind a wood, out of LOS and magic range. As soon as your enemy leaves a backline objective either unguarded or with only a small weak unit holding it, then teleport the Revenants in.  Opponent now has to redeploy something to take back the objective, weakening his plans, giving you extra chances on the front line. Expect the Revenants to die next turn, they are single turn glass cannons with long range and low damage, that's the point. The rerolls and extra pile in is there to support that.

If the opponent is wise to this strategy, then this doesn't matter, as they are now forced to leave larger units on those backline objectives instead using them in more useful places. Meanwhile your Revenants can just camp on your own backline objectives. Don't bother teleporting them to attack a big unit, they will do nothing. Keep them for situational purposes.

They are for messing up the opponents plans, nothing more. For 80 points that's reasonable. And totally fits in with the Sylvaneth "The best-laid plans of mice  Skaven and men Stormcast often go awry" strategy. Any other use of them is a waste.

Dryads are our only "real" battleline. There's a case, I think, for having Kurnoth's as battleline. If Gitz Troggoth armies can have 5 wound 3 model battleline Rockguts/Fellwaters, then we should be able to take Kurnoths.  That might also make our Kurnoth Battalions usable. And remember, with a wraith you'll never be Dryad free.

[Drillz]

My list and would like some input

 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages  
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior  
- Artefact: The Oaken Armour  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
 

30 x Dryads (270)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
 

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Gnarlroot Wargrove (130)
Household (100)
 

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
 

[Mike Burgess]

8 hours ago, Drillz said:

My list and would like some input

 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages  
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior  
- Artefact: The Oaken Armour  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
 

30 x Dryads (270)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
 

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Gnarlroot Wargrove (130)
Household (100)
 

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
 

Pretty standard and solid Gnarlroot build, main thing that looks out of place is the spells. I'd have verdant on the ranu's, regrowth on the acorn and throne of vines on Alarielle, this will allow you to cast those endless spells far more effectively as well as buffing her warscroll spell. Ranu's verdant is important in your list as a surprising amount of damage will come from your rousing the woods so you want many of them down.

On a deeper level, I don't think you need Alarielle in Gnarlroot and are better off just taking more scythes/dryads maybe turning one of the units of revs into another unit of dryads to help you with objectives in a low model count army.

[Aezeal]

13 minutes ago, Mike Burgess said:

Pretty standard and solid Gnarlroot build, main thing that looks out of place is the spells. I'd have verdant on the ranu's, regrowth on the acorn and throne of vines on Alarielle, this will allow you to cast those endless spells far more effectively as well as buffing her warscroll spell. Ranu's verdant is important in your list as a surprising amount of damage will come from your rousing the woods so you want many of them down.

On a deeper level, I don't think you need Alarielle in Gnarlroot and are better off just taking more scythes/dryads maybe turning one of the units of revs into another unit of dryads to help you with objectives in a low model count army.

I'd go 2 units of dryads myself and do exactly as you said with the spells and items.

(I've been trying a wych with reaping and extra range through item and maybe balewind but it's not often been that succesful so I'm now leaning towards that acorn since getting a 3th or even 2nd wood on the table has been difficult for me too).

If you go Alarielle keeping 2x20 dryads will mean you'll have to cut in the endless spells though. 

[Aezeal]

BTW I have a question. I'm pretty sure the answer is going to be negative but I can't find the rules why  it would be:

Do your wyldwoods could as enemy models for your opponent for the purpose of teleporting (9"outside of enemy models). I mean.. they are in our army, if we aren't sylvaneth we'd have to pay for them etc etc. I know it's probably just me being a sylvaneth player and trying to push the rules but it popped up and I can't really find the rules to disagree with me (most of my stuff is in another location.. that doesnt help).

[Ruhraffe]

The rules of the Sylvaneth Wyldwood make clear, that it is a terrain piece, not a unit. And I don't think, terrain pieces can belong to an army, in the sense that they are targettable models.

[Drillz]

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri  
-- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior  
- Artefact: The Oaken Armour  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth

20 x Dryads (200)

20 x Dryads (200)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

 

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Gnarlroot Wargrove (130)
Household (100)
 

Prismatic Palisade (30)

2000/2000

 

Thanks for the input i made the suggested changes. I think Alarielle is really strong and i have seen her used alot in UK/AUS lists so i want to try her out if it doesnt work then i can swap back to drycha and hunters

[Justinbot]

Heading into a 1000 point tournament soon, how does this list look? Should I switch the Treelord for a TLA and a unit of dryads (giving up the battalion)?

LEADERS
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- Deepwood Spell : Regrowth
Branchwych (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Warsinger
- Artefact : Acorn of the Ages
- Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact : Ranu's Lamentiri
- Deepwood Spell : Throne of Vines
UNITS
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
BEHEMOTHS
Treelord (240)
BATTALIONS
Household (100)

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Justinbot

[Aezeal]

5 hours ago, Drillz said:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri  
-- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior  
- Artefact: The Oaken Armour  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth

20 x Dryads (200)

20 x Dryads (200)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

 

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Gnarlroot Wargrove (130)
Household (100)
 

Prismatic Palisade (30)

2000/2000

 

Thanks for the input i made the suggested changes. I think Alarielle is really strong and i have seen her used alot in UK/AUS lists so i want to try her out if it doesnt work then i can swap back to drycha and hunters

This list or something similar will probably be my list as well next game.

My last little idea's (most of which I think I'll end up not doing btw):

1. The main thing is that just have not enough points for the real interesting endless spells. Dropping 100 points of dryads for that is an option... 

2. Maybe a different spell on the wych.. but a double regrowth has advantages too.

3. For Alarielle and/or the TLA I'm considering The reaping. I mean... if you cast 2 spells there is a decent  chance that reaping + alarielle's spell will do more damage than ToV + her spell.

4. For the TLA you can also consider dropping the Oaken Armor for the gyrstrike not sure I'd do it.. but it would give him more punch (and.. I often find him lacking in that department for 300 points)

5. Is the lore master still a thing (140 points is kinda steep but.. he'd fit nicely with Alarielle, TLA and a summoned TL.  How to get the points is another thing.. you'd have to drop 10 dryads.. and the pallisade.. and still you';d be short.

[KasperBN]

I have a clarification question on our Wyldwoods.

 

 

Does this mean if a model or unit finishes a normal movement on our Wyldwood, does it trigger or not? Is "finishing on" referring to running and charging, or is it a new stipulation?

[Xil]

2 hours ago, KasperBN said:

I have a clarification question on our Wyldwoods.

 

 

Does this mean if a model or unit finishes a normal movement on our Wyldwood, does it trigger or not? Is "finishing on" referring to running and charging, or is it a new stipulation?

The German translation is pretty clear that it only triggers on run and charge moves that cross or end in the wyldwood. Normal moves won't trigger 

[Alezya]

19 hours ago, KasperBN said:

I have a clarification question on our Wyldwoods.

 

 

Does this mean if a model or unit finishes a normal movement on our Wyldwood, does it trigger or not? Is "finishing on" referring to running and charging, or is it a new stipulation?

Normal move doesn't trigger the wyldwood. 

But running in movement phase across a wylwood (or finishing its run move on a wyldwood) triggers it in the move phase, and a charge move in the charge phase triggers it again, whether it be accross or finishing on. 

[Heksagon]

1 hour ago, Alezya said:

Normal move doesn't trigger the wyldwood. 

But running in movement phase across a wylwood (or finishing its run move on a wyldwood) triggers it in the move phase, and a charge move in the charge phase triggers it again, whether it be accross or finishing on. 

And Flying models never trigger wyldoods? So, they're not that great against, for example, Nighthaunt?

[Alezya]

29 minutes ago, Heksagon said:

And Flying models never trigger wyldoods? So, they're not that great against, for example, Nighthaunt?

The warscroll doesn't say anything related to flying units. The only keywords that don"t trigger the effect are hero, monster, and sylvaneth. 

So  grimghast reapers do have to roll a dice for each model moving across or finishing its move into a sylvaneth wyldwood.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Alezya

[Kaylethia]

13 minutes ago, Alezya said:

The warscroll doesn't say anything related to flying units. The only keywords that don"t trigger the effect are hero, monster, and sylvaneth. 

So  grimghast reapers do have to roll a dice for each model moving across or finishing its move into a sylvaneth wyldwood.

Flying units ignore terrain when moving. Finishing on a wyldwood still triggers it. Additionally, citadel woods don't block line of sight if either unit has flying.

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Kaylethia
Clarified flying.

[KasperBN]

Thank you for the answer

 

By the way, does anyone have any tips against Legions of Nagash? While getting better at AoS, learning all the rules, I play against a LoN friend (who does not run Nagash), and I have not won a single game yet.

Our last game was the worst, I have it pegged down to Battle Plan a little (Knife to the Heart), but the game was over before round 3 began.

I play a Gnarlroot list, and had 20 dryads parked in WW, with Kurnoth Scythes and TLA fairly close to help. Alarielle and 10 dryads, camping my objective and 2 wraiths spread out for support. I had 5 tree revs ready to jump on his objective, but he parked a large portion of his army there.

Manfred and zombie lord on dragon as well as a large unit of Spirit Hosts marched across the map turn one, ignoring wyldwoods and proceeded to slaughter my dryads and kurnoth in turn 1, taking some casualties (though everything got rescurrected next turn).

My basic problem seems to be, I cannot outlast them with Gnarlroot. They have better wound output then my army, especially mortal wounds, they have better sustain even with regrowth and Gnarlroot res, and unless it's an objective where I can hit and run to the extreme, I get annihilated, especially on a BP like Knife to the Heart.

[KasperBN]

4 hours ago, Alezya said:

Normal move doesn't trigger the wyldwood. 

But running in movement phase across a wylwood (or finishing its run move on a wyldwood) triggers it in the move phase, and a charge move in the charge phase triggers it again, whether it be accross or finishing on. 

What about piling in?

[Xil]

8 minutes ago, KasperBN said:

What about piling in?

It's no attack move or run move. Does not trigger 

[KasperBN]

2 hours ago, Xil said:

It's no attack move or run move. Does not trigger 

Final question, asking from a friend with alot of flying units.

What if a flying unit starts its movement in a Wyldwood, and then charges out of the Wyldwood at something else (across). Does the Wyldwood proc since something charges across it, or does the Flying unit ignore terrain?

[Kaylethia]

5 minutes ago, KasperBN said:

Final question, asking from a friend with alot of flying units.

What if a flying unit starts its movement in a Wyldwood, and then charges out of the Wyldwood at something else (across). Does the Wyldwood proc since something charges across it, or does the Flying unit ignore terrain?

For flying units, only ending their run or charge on a wyldood counts.