AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Nixon]

On 12/6/2018 at 10:01 AM, AaronWIlson said:

In what way hard to place, 1" away from terrain and within 1" of each other doesn't seem too complicated to my self but I suppose they are not "place them anywhere". 

They do block movement but that can be used as a advantage to us, bottlenecking opponents units or using to block a area off from a big monster. I can't argue they slow the down game as I suppose they do. 

They are costly and are a tax on the army money wise, no argument!

Exactly in that way hard. If you play on a table with just a decent amount of terrain you wont be able to place that many woods. I would have liked GW to just make one big Tree of Life. But that is just me.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Nixon

[Isotop]

23 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

Hey guys, I made a cheat sheet for my self and wanted to share it with you a while back. A very kind fellow has spruced it up and made it look amazing!

Printer friendly version : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ga5x1hiwtjRUFzqcAe0BeaX6Kh__PKK8/view?fbclid=IwAR1IBiImUcBQeCy3SKLLqiWghzlCJUeh1TUjZzo4FA2J_OLW6OwZp6332ic

Very fancy version : https://drive.google.com/file/d/16sfwsczV_uSNnr44LiIUg69kTzQtKQdl/view?fbclid=IwAR3GwTmMueKSsDzxwP7Xz9lByqhzv2fNPa35IUq09LF-VqwEYB2CL7dB5Mo

Great work! I have a question regarding 2.2, tough. In my view Treelords, Treelord Ancients and Spirits of Durthu are not excluded from using Navigate Realmroots - the simply have an alternative way of "teleporting". If this is true, you should remember to always use Navigate Realmroots instead of Spirit Paths, since the Tree-bois are not affected by a roll of 1 when using Navigate Realmroots. They simply get the added chance to roll a 6 and be able to move again (which they can not get by using Spirit Paths).

[Isotop]

*double post

Edited December 8, 2018 by Isotop

[Easytyger]

Quick question for @Lhw or anyone playing Winterleaf. Can the order unit taken in the battalion be given an artifact? From what I recall it's not considered an Allied unit if taken in the battalion but doesn't seem like it could be given artifacts. 

[Lhw]

 

1 hour ago, Easytyger said:

Quick question for @Lhw or anyone playing Winterleaf. Can the order unit taken in the battalion be given an artifact? From what I recall it's not considered an Allied unit if taken in the battalion but doesn't seem like it could be given artifacts. 

Afraid not - there was an FAQ on it.

[Easytyger]

Thanks that’s  what I assumed. 

[Twh30]

@Lhw have you thought about running anything different to the Phoenix? Mayb eels or heartrenders? 

[Lhw]

6 hours ago, Twh30 said:

@Lhw have you thought about running anything different to the Phoenix? Mayb eels or heartrenders? 

Definitely. Both have a place. @Nico has been running Winterleaf with 9 eels, with success. Heartenders are nice, but Trevs do a similar job - though obviously less well.

[Twh30]

@Lhw cool just playing with few ideas in my head. Are there any other units you have considered ?

[Lhw]

There's all the compendium ones that I keep on trying to work out whether it's legal to use or not 😅

[Twh30]

If it has points , warscroll and official base size sure will be fine. 😉

Edited December 9, 2018 by Twh30

[AaronWilson]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:57 AM, Isotop said:

Great work! I have a question regarding 2.2, tough. In my view Treelords, Treelord Ancients and Spirits of Durthu are not excluded from using Navigate Realmroots - the simply have an alternative way of "teleporting". If this is true, you should remember to always use Navigate Realmroots instead of Spirit Paths, since the Tree-bois are not affected by a roll of 1 when using Navigate Realmroots. They simply get the added chance to roll a 6 and be able to move again (which they can not get by using Spirit Paths).

No you're right I just didn't word it very well on the sheet but thank you

[Twh30]

11 hours ago, Lhw said:

There's all the compendium ones that I keep on trying to work out whether it's legal to use or not 😅

Looking at the drake sworn templer. With its +1 to cast for wizards and just sticking it out as a distraction while I take the objectives?

[Lhw]

Just too many points though, isn't it? Even at 460, not sure you're getting your money back? 

[Twh30]

Mayb but the plus 1 to cast and plus one from artifacts on branchwraith meaning summoning 10 dryads on a 5, while he is distracting army they are moving on objectives winning to point game? 

[Gibs]

Hi,

Have been reading the Sylvaneth book at the local Game Store in addition to the Stormcast and Blades of Khorne.....and trying to decide on my comeback army to AOS. Played Warhammer Fantasy and then basically through in the towel when AOS launched. It now seems to have had a resurgence in my area and I am very keen to build a 2000 point army. My most loved army in Fantasy was my Wood Elves, however having sold all the models and books I really am starting from scratch (although I do have some unpainted Dryads in a box somewhere). Tried 40k and just couldn't get into the Sci-fi theme.....tanks and guns are jst not as cool as Magic and swords haha.

While it appears there are not that many units in Sylvaneth, I like how it still utilities Forests and has that old Wood Elves feel about it

The other appeal is that I really want an army built around a centerpiece model i.e. Archaon or the Everqueen in this case. On top of that I really like the fluff around the Spirit of Durthu being her protector.

Leaders

1. Alarielle Everqueen
2. Spirit of Durthu
3. Branchwraith (summoning seems fun)

Battleline 

• Dryads (unit size 10/20?)
• Hunters (how does 'Free Spirits' work with the rest of the army?)

What unit sizes work best and what proportion of Dryads to Hunters?

I must admit I am not 100% sure how the Battalions work, i.e. can you take anything in addition to the minimum requirements?

Idea:

• Everqueen holds down the center protected by a decent block of Dryads and the Branchwraith
• Branchwraith + Alarielle summon more units to support the main line 
• Hunters push forward to secure objectives and present an immediate threat
• Durthu positions himself to tackle any Monstrous threats

While I am not looking to create a Tournament level 'unfriendly' list, it does need to be 'semi competitive' as that is what most people play. Nothing worse than building an army and spending hours on painting to just get crushed, then again its just as bad if you build a one trick hyper competitive army that no one enjoys playing either. Any help in crafting the list would be great?

Next, thing

How many extra units are needed for summoning?

How many forests are needed for a typical 2K game? Is there anywhere you can buy them pre-painted for a reasonable price?

Finally any additional advice or links to materials, Battle Reports would be amazing!

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Gibs

[Ruhraffe]

9 hours ago, Gibs said:

I must admit I am not 100% sure how the Battalions work, i.e. can you take anything in addition to the minimum requirements?

 

Battalions work like this:
For a battalion to be implemented, you have to put the minimum amount described in the batallion on the battlefield, pay points for the units and the batallion itself. Also, you can fill up the batallion with the units described in the batallions. If not mentioned in the batallion rules, you cannot take any units not on the batallion into the batallion, but you can put them in the army outside of the batallion. The rules of the batallion just don't apply to them. 

For sylvaneth in specifics: There are normal batallions like Free Spirits or Forest Folk, and overarching batallions, named Wargroves. A wargrove consists of a minor batallion and some extra units. If you want to implement a wargrove:

1. Pay points for Wargrove

2. Pay points for minor batallion

3. Pay points and put up models for the minor batallion (Attention: Most wargroves expand the amount of units of the minor batallion and even modify the type of unit!)

4. Fill up the Wargrove batallion with the needed units and pay their points

5. Every Wargrove says, that you can also put any sylvaneth unit. So your whole army can belong to the wargrove and use the wargrove rules, and can be set up as one. 

 

-Every batallion gives you command points and an additional artifact. So if you play Gnarlroot, you receive these bonusses for the Gnarlroot Wargrove and the Household seperately. You can include up to 3 artifacts that way. 

-The rules of the minor batallion just apply to the units mentioned in the minor batallion

-The rules for the Wargrove apply to your whole army

[Lhw]

A good summary by @Ruhraffe there, @Gibs. The battalion set up are quite strong.

If you're looking for a rundown, this is me blowing my own trumpet, but I chatted trees with The Honest Wargamer a couple of months ago (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/327566892). Might be worth a listen! The @JustPlay-Ritchie podcast - Justsaying also tends to talk quite a bit about them, as Ritchie takes them to tourneys.

 

[Craze]

11 hours ago, Gibs said:

Battleline 

• Dryads (unit size 10/20?)
• Hunters (how does 'Free Spirits' work with the rest of the army?)

What unit sizes work best and what proportion of Dryads to Hunters?

...

How many extra units are needed for summoning?

How many forests are needed for a typical 2K game? 

 

Just a couple of Things:

- Hunters are not battleline. You can only use Dryads and Revenants (both Tree- and Spite-) as battleline units.

- Dryads are really good in numbers >12  because their Save increases by one then, so units of 20+ do make sense in most cases (Running Winterleaf is perhaps an exception).

- 10-20 extra dryads do make sense if you use a Branchwraith as does an extra squad of Hunters if you use Alarielle, as it is considered the best option to summon hunters in most games (also be clear about the weapon loadout you want to use, or just magnetize them)

- I think with 6-9 bases (2-3 sets of Wyldwoods) you should be safe in 90% of the games, as very often Terrain limits the Maximum number of Wyldwoods you can place, due to space contraints.

[a74xhx]

Been thinking about 1000 point lists. I feel Sylvaneth 2000 points have strong strategy rules, but 1000 points is a little vague. You can't just follow the same rules as 2000 points as there just isn't enough room in the list.

 

First turns:

At 1000 points it makes no sense to take a wargove battalion, as they are too expensive (almost 1/4 of your points before counting units). So, if you really really want first turn then the only real option is to reduce the number of units in your list.

You could take the a small battalion but they are really expensive (>100)  for what you get out of them (+1 artefact, +1 ability of debatable use). Two or Three units now become one drop, helping that first turn. Household forces you into 3 not that great units. Forest Folk or Outcasts (if you want Spites) are of use. The others are just too big.

Alternatively, just take the largest sized units you can to reduce drops. Eg: 2x3 Kurnoths become 6 Kurnoths.

Still, you need to plan on getting second turn.

 

Artefact:

1 artefact. Ok, Acorn Of The Ages is the usual choice. However, I'm wondering if this is more useful overall:

Branchwraith : Ranu’s Lamentiri, Verdant Blessing
Branchwraith : Dwellers Below
TreeLord Ancient : Rebirth

Ranu gives the first wraith a 91% chance of casting a wood (instead of 72%), plus the Ancient has a 50% chance (not sure what combined odds of getting at least one wood is)

Once you have enough woods out, the first wraith instead gets a +1 to cast Dryads (72% instead of 58%), and the second wraith can now start shooting stuff.

Whilst it's still possible to fail getting woods out on turn 1, I'm wondering if this is good enough to drop the Acorn for Ranu which is going to help you every turn.  10 Dryads are 10% of your points, vs 5% in a 2000 game, so they are effectively twice as powerful on the table.

Maybe at 1000 points the only woods you really care about are the springboard, with additional woods being a bonus. And if you want to reduce number of drops, then maybe:

Branchwraith : Acorn, any spell doesn't matter, you'll only ever summon dryads
TreeLord Ancient : Rebirth

I really love Drycha's Squirmlings to obliterate a 1 wound battleline unit, so I'm wondering maybe taking her with the double branchwraith. I'd always want the possibility of getting more woods down, so I wouldn't drop down to one wraith. And I really want to keep her healed too, so she needs rebirth.

I'd probably avoid Durthu unless I could somehow take ghyrstrike to make him less swingy. Maybe if I managed to get a small battalion in, he'd be back in the running.

[Popisdead]

7 hours ago, Lhw said:

@Ruhraffe@Gibs

If you're looking for a rundown, this is me blowing my own trumpet, but I chatted trees with The Honest Wargamer a couple of months ago (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/327566892). Might be worth a listen! The @JustPlay-Ritchie podcast - Justsaying also tends to talk quite a bit about them, as Ritchie takes them to tourneys.

 

New peopel show up often and it's good for them to run into some older material to help them out.  We aren't swimming in content on the whole even if Sylvaneth is one of the more covered armies of the last 2 years.  Toot that trumpet!

5 hours ago, Craze said:

- Dryads are really good in numbers >12  because their Save increases by one then, so units of 20+ do make sense in most cases (Running Winterleaf is perhaps an exception).

Yes and Yes.  I like running a lot of big guys (face Blight Kings often) so I like spamming 10-man units of Winterleaf Dryads backed with trees and a stomp. 

[Gibs]

23 hours ago, Ruhraffe said:

Battalions work like this:
For a battalion to be implemented, you have to put the minimum amount described in the batallion on the battlefield, pay points for the units and the batallion itself. Also, you can fill up the batallion with the units described in the batallions. If not mentioned in the batallion rules, you cannot take any units not on the batallion into the batallion, but you can put them in the army outside of the batallion. The rules of the batallion just don't apply to them. 

For sylvaneth in specifics: There are normal batallions like Free Spirits or Forest Folk, and overarching batallions, named Wargroves. A wargrove consists of a minor batallion and some extra units. If you want to implement a wargrove:

1. Pay points for Wargrove

2. Pay points for minor batallion

3. Pay points and put up models for the minor batallion (Attention: Most wargroves expand the amount of units of the minor batallion and even modify the type of unit!)

4. Fill up the Wargrove batallion with the needed units and pay their points

5. Every Wargrove says, that you can also put any sylvaneth unit. So your whole army can belong to the wargrove and use the wargrove rules, and can be set up as one. 

 

-Every batallion gives you command points and an additional artifact. So if you play Gnarlroot, you receive these bonusses for the Gnarlroot Wargrove and the Household seperately. You can include up to 3 artifacts that way. 

-The rules of the minor batallion just apply to the units mentioned in the minor batallion

-The rules for the Wargrove apply to your whole army

Right so taking that onboard ( i think )

 

Leaders

Everqueen

Spirit of Durthu

Branchwraith

Branchwraith

Battleline

Dryads (20)

Dryads (10)

Dryads (10)

Elite

Hunters (3)

Battalion:  Forest Folk

Wargrove: Harvestboon

1980pts

20 points for an Endless Spell

 

Assuming that is legal, would this be a decent list?

 

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Gibs

[Craze]

Just one question:

Is there any reason you choose Harvestboon over Winterleaf?

I think it is overall the better Wargrove

[Popisdead]

45 minutes ago, Craze said:

Is there any reason you choose Harvestboon over Winterleaf?

I think it is overall the better Wargrove

With Warsinger you can have +2" move (or charge or whatever it is) and you can build stronger casters.  Smaller tax on the required units.  

[Craze]

But he has the 3 Dryad units he needs in his list anyway.  And instead of Warsinger he could use Gnarled Warrior or Gift of Ghyran on his Durthu, which is - in my humble opinion - a better choice. 

 

Of course he is absolutely free to play whatever he wants, I just wanted to ask why he chose Harvestboon.