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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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16 hours ago, The World Tree said:

I don't see the point of 10 Tree Revenants. 2x5 is so much better. It allows for more dynamic and flexible screening and zoning as well as more capacity to redeploy in their back edge and threaten objectives. If any revenant enters combat they usually die (I really wish they had nighthaunt immune to rend)

Yes is how I will go. I put 10 just to make it quick.

For battalions I'm thinking on gnarloot because I like that D3 regen. Is not much but it can help tree rev to live more.

Gnarloot + 3 x5 tree rev + 3 x3 kurnoth + 20 summoned driads sounds cool.

Edited by Hoseman
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So Im picking up sylvaneth as an alternate to my seraphon for tournaments and team events. Most units are pretty straightforward, and Ive a pretty good understanding of how things run. However, Im a bit stuck on the battleline choices. Dryads, though at first glance seem kind of meh, seem like the better choice. 20man units sitting in wildwoods with a 3+ at -1 to hit are so good, why would we ever take revs outside of tax? Ive been reading this thread and people are taking them a lot more than I would consider.

Is it related to where your wildwoods end up set up that makes them so good? Where are you usually setting up your initial woods, and then where are you summoning more? Objectives seem like the obvious answer, and would you keep a branchwraith in backfield with acorn to drop some in your own zone?

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7 hours ago, Meatgrinder said:

So Im picking up sylvaneth as an alternate to my seraphon for tournaments and team events. Most units are pretty straightforward, and Ive a pretty good understanding of how things run. However, Im a bit stuck on the battleline choices. Dryads, though at first glance seem kind of meh, seem like the better choice. 20man units sitting in wildwoods with a 3+ at -1 to hit are so good, why would we ever take revs outside of tax? Ive been reading this thread and people are taking them a lot more than I would consider.

Is it related to where your wildwoods end up set up that makes them so good? Where are you usually setting up your initial woods, and then where are you summoning more? Objectives seem like the obvious answer, and would you keep a branchwraith in backfield with acorn to drop some in your own zone?

I have only played dread wood and gnarlroot as far as my experiance, but even when I summon 10 dryads in wyldwoods that -1 hit does work. A unit of 20 in cover for 200 points is awsome. Tree-revs I usually hold back as objective holders with the threat of teleporting, or worst case as chaff. In my dread wood I run 4x 5spite-revs and they are ok sometimes. But they seem like a tax, however in my gnarl root I have one unit because their cheap and battle line. And if played right can still force favorable battle shock results. I always run 2 branch wraith just in case one dies, summoning 10 dryads is awsome from a 80pt model. I keep one with ranu lamenteri, and one with throne of vines. One stays back and one moves forward. I set one woods In a deployment zone sticking out a few inches so tree lord ancient can use unique spell turn 1, acorn in my deployment zone, and i still have verdant blessing on 4+ from branch wraith and 4+ from treelord ancient. I try and get as many woods down as possible to help block large based models. 

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I'm looking at picking up my first AoS army soon. I've been playing Warhammer Underworlds and 40k (since 2nd edition). I've been a fan of old fantasy but am returning to GW after a hiatus. 

I'm currently looking at Sylvaneth and possibly Ironjawz as my favourite of the "new" forces. I'm likely to be going up against SCE, Nighthaunt or maybe Fyreslayers depending on how one guy goes, Seraphon and possibly LoN. I'm looking for a force that won't roflstomp the enemy but also won't get roflstomped itself. I'm not going to any tournaments so I'm not considering that but am wondering how some of the "older" battletomes hold up against the latest forces out there? 

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1 hour ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

I'm looking at picking up my first AoS army soon. I've been playing Warhammer Underworlds and 40k (since 2nd edition). I've been a fan of old fantasy but am returning to GW after a hiatus. 

I'm currently looking at Sylvaneth and possibly Ironjawz as my favourite of the "new" forces. I'm likely to be going up against SCE, Nighthaunt or maybe Fyreslayers depending on how one guy goes, Seraphon and possibly LoN. I'm looking for a force that won't roflstomp the enemy but also won't get roflstomped itself. I'm not going to any tournaments so I'm not considering that but am wondering how some of the "older" battletomes hold up against the latest forces out there? 

The first thing to consider about Sylvaneth are the Wyldwoods. Without the woods you only have half of an army in my opinion. If you are up for some diy or don't mind spending extra money to bring out 100% of your army and you don't mind hauling an extra bag of scenery to every game than it is worth it. I really like the faction, the tricks and tactics of it too. I would say that after the newest GHB we are in an ok position amongst the newer forces, but there are more experienced players who could shine some light on that for you.

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On 10/18/2018 at 7:47 AM, Isotop said:

My post was not about 10 Hunters in particular. You can just divide the respective damage output by ten to learn about the average damage per model. I am sorry if this was not clear.

Yes, both Scythes and Swords are good in general. But I have to disagree with your statement about the damage not being relevant for the argument.

...

Another thought process when deciding between Scythes and Swords emerges from the design of your list in general. For example, I am playing Dreadwood Wargrove right now with Alarielle, a Spirit of Durthu and a unit of 6 Scythe-Hunters. A reasonable thought could be: I allready have enough -2 rend attacks with the Spirit and Alarielle - maybe Swords would suit this list better for overall performance. Another thought, and in fact the one I had when I first created and played the list, is: When I am using Subterfuge to redeploy the Hunters, it can be quite limiting if I have to get six 50mm bases within 1" of the enemy unit I want to delete or bind - so I took Scythes since you only have to fit three bases (with the other three attacking from the "second rank").

I see why you would do 10-man units, it is easier to visualize the damage output.  However a comparison of 3 swords vs 6 Scythes is equally as valid. 

This debate has raged since  the book was dropped.

Also I think your last paragraph highlights my point that we should be looking at this not as a dmg output argument.

 

On 10/19/2018 at 2:24 PM, Twh30 said:

I am trying it in a winterleaf battalion here’s the list I’m trying.

54663955-4ECC-4BAF-B559-DA8103AF2FFB.png

Will the Frostheart get to re-roll 1s vs chaos or is the rule Sylvaneth only?  If the latter I would drop it to make use of that ability as you are paying for it, and it is good.

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1 hour ago, Twh30 said:

No the ability wouldn’t affect the frostheart.  But feel the frostheart strength could our way that a little bit especially with it being very magic heavy at the moment .

Okay fair enough.  I've used Winterleaf for a while now and really like it.  The re-rolling has always impressed me.  But the Frostheart is a powerful warscroll indeed.

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Just now, Popisdead said:

Okay fair enough.  I've used Winterleaf for a while now and really like it.  The re-rolling has always impressed me.  But the Frostheart is a powerful warscroll indeed.

Cool does seem powerful ability will try frostheart but will keep in mind trying pure sylvaneth 

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On 10/19/2018 at 11:24 PM, Twh30 said:

I am trying it in a winterleaf battalion here’s the list I’m trying.

54663955-4ECC-4BAF-B559-DA8103AF2FFB.png

Personally I'm often not happy with the efficiency of 10 dryads (I always run one unit of 20 and usually because of other goodies my battleline will then be another 10 dryads and 5 revenants. I'm often not happy with both those smaller units... so I can only cry when I see 3x10 dryads...

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Very tu

6 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Personally I'm often not happy with the efficiency of 10 dryads (I always run one unit of 20 and usually because of other goodies my battleline will then be another 10 dryads and 5 revenants. I'm often not happy with both those smaller units... so I can only cry when I see 3x10 dryads...

Very true with the dryads although in winterleaf dryads are bit more solid

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On 10/24/2018 at 7:23 PM, Popisdead said:

I see why you would do 10-man units, it is easier to visualize the damage output.  However a comparison of 3 swords vs 6 Scythes is equally as valid. 

This debate has raged since  the book was dropped.

Also I think your last paragraph highlights my point that we should be looking at this not as a dmg output argument.

Sorry for the late reply, I was absent because of work. 

In my opinion the debate is 100% about damage output. I presuppose the following statement: 

(1) Swords do more damage than Sycthes (against most targets) given the same number of attacking models.

Next, we are talking about the following statement:

(2) Scythes are able to offset (1) by some means.

Some examples for those means we allready discussed:

(2.1) Scythes can attack from behind a (Dryad) screen and therefore do not suffer counter attacks (in a lot of cases).

(2.2) Scythes have a smaller footprint, since they can attack from the "second rank".

(2.3) Because of (2.2), Scythes can benefit from cover in more cases than Swords can.

(2.4) Scythes are more likely to benefit from Tanglethorn Thicket and still get a maximum number of attacking models.

In my view, all of the four points can be translated into "more damage".

Translation for (2.1), (2.3) and (2.4): Scythes will survive longer than Swords, and therefore do more damage.

Translation for (2.2): Scythes will, in some cases, get more attacking models than Swords - which can offset the damage gap between them.

My argument about army composition and wether you "need" rend -2 attacks or not is also translatable into: Choose the option that will give you more overall damage output for your army as a whole.

As I said, that is only how I view the case personally. If you find any contradicitons or inconsistency in my argument, feel free to discuss. @Popisdead in special: I would like hear some further explanations about the statement you made. I really do not want the discussion "Scythes vs Swords" to rage on. Instead I would love to find a comprehensible basis for it.

 

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15 hours ago, Requizen said:

I see a lot of talk about Gnarlroot and Dreadwood, anyone have success with any of the other mega battalions? Harvestboon, Heartwood, and Oakenbrow all seem reasonable as one drops, though I haven't done the point calculations yet. 

To be honest, I think all the "one drop" battalions in Sylvanth are great. Not because of their individual benefits, but rather because of the "one drop" itself. I only played Dreadwood so far, so I am ready to be corrected by wiser players ?

Edited by Isotop
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2 hours ago, Isotop said:

To be honest, I think all the "one drop" battalions in Sylvanth are great. Not because of their individual benefits, but rather because of the "one drop" itself. I only played Dreadwood so far, so I am ready to be corrected by wiser players ?

More or less exactly why I'm looking into Sylvaneth. I really like the idea of a one-drop army being able to dictate the start of the game, as well as all the special rules and extra artifacts and what not. Dreadwood is really interesting since it also forces your opponent to rethink their whole strategy when it comes to set up and first turn plans. I like the idea of Harvestboon since it makes the Branchwraith summoning a bit more reliable. Oakenbrow and Heartwood can return units, which seems pretty alright to me, but they come at a pretty big buy in to get to that point. Gnarlroot jumps up because it has some rezzing (especially nice when you hit some Scythe Kurnoths with it) and more casting, as well as the ally slot that doesn't add a drop. 

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I made a list with a lot of magic:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
Branchwraith (80)
Branchwych (80)
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
Treelord Ancient (300)

Battleline
10 x Dryads (100)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battalions
Gnarlroot Wargrove (130)
Household (100)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 68
This gives us 9 spells  and 8 dispels per turn. And you can put kurnoth or 20 dryad with alarielle and the 10 per turn with branchwraith...

Each turn alarielle heals, and we have regrowth too. Then lifeswarm and the battalion spell can return dryads and tree rev. 

Maybe is too much and not necessary or viable but I wanted to have a strong magic list with lot of healing.

 

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6 hours ago, Hoseman said:

This gives us 9 spells  and 8 dispels per turn.

Isn't that 10 cast / 10 dispel +1 cast with Cogs?

 

Used a similar list not so long ago (used more dryads instead of revenants and skipped lifeswarm).

I had two big problems: I was unfortunate enough to play against a Tzeentch army. This dropped my successful casts to a laughable level.

My other problem: I did not have enough useful spells to cast during the game.  I feel like this list is seriously neutered in the event you have no access to realm spells or these realm spells are limited to you. In my case we had a house rule to roll two d6 to get two useable spells from the Chamon table. Curse of Rust and Glittering Robe were both quite lacklustre against a spell-heavy list.

I blame my lack of experience with Gnarlroot  for that loss.

 

Also, does anyone have any experience with Emerald Lifeswarm? My gut tells me it is too much of a risk.

 

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