AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:1. What glades could i choose based on these models? 
2. Do i need to buy the trees? I dont mind buying a box but i dont want to buy multiples if i dont have to.

Thanks!

I would recommend you get a Start Collecting Sylvaneth box. It comes with more Dryads and a second Treelord - unless you are very keen on magnetising, you’ll want more than one variant. It also comes with a Branchwych, which you could proxy as a Branchwraith in casual games. 

You could play most glades with the models you have, especially casually. 

You absolutely do need trees. Sylvaneth has a number of abilities that key off them and several ways to place more during a game. A single box is unlikely to have enough trees for serious play, but you can easily use the trees in a box as a template for some flat proxy bases in a casual game (also much easier to transport and to place models around without snagging on a branch). I cut a load from a Deepcut Studios mat that work well for me. 

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, Iksdee said:

My wife bought me half a Sylvaneth army for christmas and i dont know much about them to be honest. I know i need some more battleline options and im thinking of getting just a box of dryads to reach the minimum requirement needed. I am just a casual player and i dont really care for matched play but i do like synergy in my armies or a fun theme. I plan on choosing a glade and build around that. I need some advice on this army so i know what to build towards.

These are the models i own now and i havent build anything yet:
1 Treelord box
1 Kurnoth Hunters box
16 Dryads
1 Qulathis the Exile
1 Alarielle
1 Warsong Revenant

I also own a box of Wild Riders i want to ally in for open play.

1. What glades could i choose based on these models? 
2. Do i need to buy the trees? I dont mind buying a box but i dont want to buy multiples if i dont have to.

Thanks!

Edit: Forgot to mention i also own a Branchwych.

A start collecting would be something good to get, it will give you around 30 dryads + other treelord option and a wych (that I recomend you convert into a Branchwraith). Other things to get would be at least 2 box of tree revenants, to diversify your battleline options and a another kurnoth hunters box is good as well.

1) About our glades, they generally don't have a strong association with specific models in our rules, so you can pick the one that you find more interesting lore wise. A resume of their effects:

- Oakenbrown - The first glade and most honored one. Buff treelords variants and want some dryads for their command ability. Extra wounds to our treelords are basically their jam.

- Gnarlroot - Keepers of magic and tradition. Buffs require wizards, with the expection of durthu and the arch revenant all our heroes are wizards, so it generally fit any list. Rerolls, protection and healing are their themes.

- Dreadwood - The dark glade who dislike no-sylvaneths. Minor buff to spite revenants, but you can easily play without them. Some bravery effects and teleporting.

- Harvestboon - The youngest glade and full of hope. Buffs related to charging units and attack in general. Fits any lists, but its probably the best choice if you want Durthu as your general.

- Heartwood - The followers of Kurnoth. Buffs Kurnoth hunters basically and have a couple of other minor buffs.

- Winterleaf - The tragic backstory glade who lost everything they cared for and now are merciless. Effects focused on causing extra damage with generating extra hits and mortal wounds. Work with any melee list.

- Ironbark - From the realm of metal and friend to dwarves. Anti missile effects and letting you take some dwarves as allies is what make them unique. Work with any list, but its quiet weak mechanically speaking.

2) I suggest you buy one tree box and just proxy some bases for the rest. The tree models are quiet expensive and cumbersome to transport. Just cut a cardbord in the shape of the tree bases and you should be good to go. If you want something more fancy, there are some stl files with the shape for 3d printing around the web.

[Gitzdee]

26 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

A start collecting would be something good to get, it will give you around 30 dryads + other treelord option and a wych (that I recomend you convert into a Branchwraith). Other things to get would be at least 2 box of tree revenants, to diversify your battleline options and a another kurnoth hunters box is good as well.

1) About our glades, they generally don't have a strong association with specific models in our rules, so you can pick the one that you find more interesting lore wise. A resume of their effects:

- Oakenbrown - The first glade and most honored one. Buff treelords variants and want some dryads for their command ability. Extra wounds to our treelords are basically their jam.

- Gnarlroot - Keepers of magic and tradition. Buffs require wizards, with the expection of durthu and the arch revenant all our heroes are wizards, so it generally fit any list. Rerolls, protection and healing are their themes.

- Dreadwood - The dark glade who dislike no-sylvaneths. Minor buff to spite revenants, but you can easily play without them. Some bravery effects and teleporting.

- Harvestboon - The youngest glade and full of hope. Buffs related to charging units and attack in general. Fits any lists, but its probably the best choice if you want Durthu as your general.

- Heartwood - The followers of Kurnoth. Buffs Kurnoth hunters basically and have a couple of other minor buffs.

- Winterleaf - The tragic backstory glade who lost everything they cared for and now are merciless. Effects focused on causing extra damage with generating extra hits and mortal wounds. Work with any melee list.

- Ironbark - From the realm of metal and friend to dwarves. Anti missile effects and letting you take some dwarves as allies is what make them unique. Work with any list, but its quiet weak mechanically speaking.

2) I suggest you buy one tree box and just proxy some bases for the rest. The tree models are quiet expensive and cumbersome to transport. Just cut a cardbord in the shape of the tree bases and you should be good to go. If you want something more fancy, there are some stl files with the shape for 3d printing around the web.

Thanks this is great. I have some more questions if u dont mind me asking. Do the glades have corresponding paint schemes? I'm thinking about Harvestboon or Heartwood at the moment. Also what glade is best with using ranged attacks? 

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:

Thanks this is great. I have some more questions if u dont mind me asking. Do the glades have corresponding paint schemes? I'm thinking about Harvestboon or Heartwood at the moment. Also what glade is best with using ranged attacks? 

There are some paint schemes. The 2E codex has some painting guides for them, but no one will worry if you actually use them or not. 

The only ranged unit (other than monsters or heroes) we have is the Kurnoth Hunters with bows. There aren’t a lot of ways to deliberately buff them in Glades, the best option is the Heartwood artefact - Horn of the Consort - that allows nearby Kurnoth units to reroll hits. That lends itself to a cluster of bow Hunters around a hero with the Horn. 
 

Treelord variants and many of our hero’s also have good ranged attacks. That opens up the possibility of using Gnarlroot to allow rerolls of 1 to hit for all wizards (including heroes) or nearby units. That helps the treelords (directly for the ancient or indirectly for others) and named characters (Alarielle and Drycha both have good ranged attacks), as well as potentially buffing any bow Kurnoth unity near a wizard. 

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:

Thanks this is great. I have some more questions if u dont mind me asking. Do the glades have corresponding paint schemes? I'm thinking about Harvestboon or Heartwood at the moment. Also what glade is best with using ranged attacks? 

Don't worry, ask whenever you need, we are here to help!

They have in our first tome they are some drawings of the models with a color scheme for each glade, but sadly they left it out of our second tome. Harvestboon is the light bark scheme you can find some pictures on the second tome. I'm attaching both here. I can send you the scheme for the other glades, just PM.

Ranged attacks aren't exactly something we do well. Our treelords and Alarielles have a 1 attack each, the closest thing to ranged units we have are Drycha (she can make 20 attacks that do mortals on 6 to hit) and Bow Kurnoth. There are two glades that can buff those ranged attacks:

- Gnarlroot let wizards and units wholly within 12" of them reroll 1 to hit, which help fishing for mortals those attacks generally have. Its better if you want to use drycha or make alarielle/ancient ranged attack more reliable.

- Heartwood as a artefact that let kurnoth hunters reroll all hit roll while wholly within the hero that has the artefact. This one is the best option if you want to focus on Bow Kurnoth hunters as the full reroll is better considering their 4+ to hit.

 

[Gitzdee]

Gnarlroot sounds like fun. This makes Bow Kurnoth Hunters better when near Wizards but it doesnt include Qulathis if i understand correctly? Anyway i can buff Qulathis i'm overlooking in any glade or as a target of a spell?

LEADERS
Alarielle the Everqueen (740) 
Qulathis the Exile (100)
Branchwych (90)
Treelord Ancient (295)
Warsong Revenant (275)
UNITS
10 x Dryads (95)
10 x Dryads (95)
10 x Dryads (95)
5 x Wild Riders (120) (i know i cant ally them officially but rule of cool)

Summon the Bow Hunters with Alarielle?

TOTAL: 1905/2000

Guess it would turn out something like this.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Iksdee

[Trevelyan]

2 hours ago, Iksdee said:TOTAL: 1905/2000

 

With 95 points to spend and a Gnarlroot list with plenty of casters, you should consider picking up the faction endless spells. 

[Gitzdee]

I have another question about trees. If i am able to summon trees, could i always summon only 1? Would that be any good for teleporting or casting treesong? Why would u ever summon 3 together? My guess is only if u need more ground covered? Im trying to understand how these work. 

[Arzalyn]

36 minutes ago, Iksdee said:

I have another question about trees. If i am able to summon trees, could i always summon only 1? Would that be any good for teleporting or casting treesong? Why would u ever summon 3 together? My guess is only if u need more ground covered? Im trying to understand how these work. 

By the last rules, Yes you can summon just 1 tree. All you need is 1 tree to be able to teleport or use other effects that happen while near the woods. You summon 3 together mainly for 2 reasons: It gives you a bigger footing on the battlefield for your "when near woods" buffs and its block line of sight for non-sylvaneth units (as it is considered a Wyldwood).

[Popisdead]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:49 PM, Maogrim said:

If I understood correctly, the current tome is slightly outdated as it doesn't contain the Warsong Revenant and Alarielle's new profile, so I'd have to get the tome, a BR volume and keep an eye on the FAQ. 

Bonus question: is there a hardback version of the tome available? The German seems to exist only as softback..

Consider trying to find a PDF or printing the warscroll while you can.  

Softbacks are printed when hardbacks are sold out and they want another wave of books.  So my guess is you would need to find a hardback at a Local Gaming Store that still has some in stock (not a GW store) or used.

On 12/26/2021 at 2:36 PM, Maogrim said:

Is Drycha a viable piece to build an army around? She's my favorite model from the Sylvaneth range and one of the reasons I find myself tempted again..

She's viable in 3rd edition but I am not sure she is viable to build and army around (implying that you would take Spite Revenants which are the weakest of the three BattleLine choices).  

On 1/4/2022 at 1:05 AM, Iksdee said:

16 Dryads

I woudl get a box of Tree Revenants and try to scrounge 4 more Dryads from someone.  That would get a decent BL set up.  You aren't far off a starting list.  Tree lord ancient, alarielle and making bow hunters is a start.

[Maogrim]

22 hours ago, Popisdead said:

She's viable in 3rd edition but I am not sure she is viable to build and army around (implying that you would take Spite Revenants which are the weakest of the three BattleLine choices).  

 

I do have a PDF of the tome, but I really prefer a physical copy. 

So, if a Drycha + Spite Revenants core isn't very good, in what kind of army would you run her? 

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

I do have a PDF of the tome, but I really prefer a physical copy. 

So, if a Drycha + Spite Revenants core isn't very good, in what kind of army would you run her? 

She fit really well in a Gnarlroot list as a ranged mortal wound source.  The basic list is something similar to this, you can change some tree revenants for some dryads screen and even get a extra artefact if you want (the list is a 2 drop if you prefer low drops).

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Gnarlroot
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Drycha Hamadreth (315)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Treelord Ancient (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Nurtured by Magic
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony
Warsong Revenant (275)
- Artefact: Chalice of Nectar
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatswords (225)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Scythes (430)
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94
Drops: 9
 

[Popisdead]

2 hours ago, Maogrim said:

I do have a PDF of the tome, but I really prefer a physical copy. 

So, if a Drycha + Spite Revenants core isn't very good, in what kind of army would you run her? 

Arzalyn summed it up.

Use her as a hero with a good save that can take advantages of the benefits in 3rd ed that monsters and heroes get.  Just take her as a casting hero with a good save.

[Ulfast]

I just bought the armybook and a start collection box. Shall be fun to start this army. I don´t reallt know what will be next but I´m thinking another start collection box and then an arch revenant. to get to around 500-1000p so I can start to play games. 

 

I was before not intersted in this army but I started to paint a wood elves blood bowl team and just loved to paint the treeman. I bought the army book and when I read it, I really found a love of the lore around the army and together with a lot of lovely models, I tihnk this can be a fun army to start.

[Maogrim]

Are there even any other subfactiobs really viable other than Gnarlroot, or is this a Kruleboyz situation?

I watched a meta analysis video by Rob from The Honest Wargamer, showing that 85% of Sylvaneth lists at tournaments are Gnarlroot, while, if I remember, four of the seven Glades didn't show up at all. I think the other two ehich were played very rarely were Winterleaf and Harvestboon.. 

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Are there even any other subfactiobs really viable other than Gnarlroot, or is this a Kruleboyz situation?

I watched a meta analysis video by Rob from The Honest Wargamer, showing that 85% of Sylvaneth lists at tournaments are Gnarlroot, while, if I remember, four of the seven Glades didn't show up at all. I think the other two ehich were played very rarely were Winterleaf and Harvestboon.. 

They are, its just that our "meta" lists benefit more from Gnarlroot than the other options. If you look for our meta lists before the 3rd edition Dreadwood and Winterleaf were the most popular subfaction in tournaments, but changes in with the 3rd edition + the broken realms changes shifted our lists focus. Most of our subfactions buff our melee capabilities, but other than Kurnoth Hunters and Durthu most of our units aren't anything to write about when it come to combat. When Kurnoths were cheaper and were spammed (you would generally see lists with 15~18 of them) those rules were more interesting. Now our lists focus more on casters (warsong, ancient, drycha, alarielle) that avoid combat if possible, which Gnarlroot favors. If you are using Durthu and a good amount of melee Kurnoths, Winterleaf and Harvestboon are viable.

Of our 7 subfactions I would say only Oakenbrown and Ironbark are the ones you probably will never in the competitive scene, their rules are rather weak. Dreadwood was popular when we could only drop 3 trees together and didn't have a two cast wizard to be able to get them more reliable, so the command ability teleport was the selling point. Spite revenants were also our go to battleline as they were cheap and fitted in a cheap battalion. Now there is no reason to take them in place of tree revenants, other than beeing 10 points short on your list. Heartwood may benefit is buffing Kurnoth Hunter with the artefact. It wasn't super popular when we spammed them, mostly been used to buff the Bow hunters. Harvestboon and Winterleaf main bonuses are all combat focused (more attacks/hits and second activation/dancing Durthu after combat) that aren't as attractive in the current meta for us.

[Popisdead]

7 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Are there even any other subfactiobs really viable other than Gnarlroot, or is this a Kruleboyz situation?

I watched a meta analysis video by Rob from The Honest Wargamer, showing that 85% of Sylvaneth lists at tournaments are Gnarlroot, while, if I remember, four of the seven Glades didn't show up at all. I think the other two ehich were played very rarely were Winterleaf and Harvestboon.. 

I'm sure you can compete with Harvestboon and Winterleaf if you wanted to build a combat oriented army.  Winterleaf is weaker since you get the exploding hit on a 6 and I'm not sure what big guys get 6A when swinging and you want to think about big guys.  Sylvaneth have good big guys/gals right now.  

Rob is,.. good and bad.  He's a driving force for good things in AoS and also at the same time completely ignores and stomps over things that aren't top meta in tournament lists.  Not everyone plays at that level and the majority of games of AoS on the whole are pick up games not tournament games.  He railed against Behemoths constantly and then it turned out months later they were great.  So all that damage he does to a scene was not undone.  But like any celebrity they are popular by being seen be that good or bad comments.  I'm not a fan of poisoning the well then walking away.  

If you find a glade that has appeal and find you are having some enjoyment or success isn't that the goal?  Slow natural development is more helpful for generalship than internet WAAC lists.

[Maogrim]

4 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I'm sure you can compete with Harvestboon and Winterleaf if you wanted to build a combat oriented army.  Winterleaf is weaker since you get the exploding hit on a 6 and I'm not sure what big guys get 6A when swinging and you want to think about big guys.  Sylvaneth have good big guys/gals right now.  

Rob is,.. good and bad.  He's a driving force for good things in AoS and also at the same time completely ignores and stomps over things that aren't top meta in tournament lists.  Not everyone plays at that level and the majority of games of AoS on the whole are pick up games not tournament games.  He railed against Behemoths constantly and then it turned out months later they were great.  So all that damage he does to a scene was not undone.  But like any celebrity they are popular by being seen be that good or bad comments.  I'm not a fan of poisoning the well then walking away.  

If you find a glade that has appeal and find you are having some enjoyment or success isn't that the goal?  Slow natural development is more helpful for generalship than internet WAAC lists.

Thanks for the answer. The same goes to @Arzalyn of course!

I find Sylvaneth really hard to access right now. It's quite a steep investment because of things like the Wyldwoods, multiples of Kurnoth Hunters etc. Then there's how scattered their rules are across different bioks and FAQs. And of course how bad their reputation is from a competitive standpoint. But my lord, those models are gorgeous! 

I'm not looking to play tournaments, but I've learned that I just don't like the feeling a losing a game after feeling the whole time that everything's way easier for my opponent. Which is why I do look into these meta analysis'. I'd like to play 'good' units and subfactions but without spamming Sentinels and the like. But I also don't like to play what everyone's playing. It's complicated. 😅

[Popisdead]

Just now, Maogrim said:

Thanks for the answer. The same goes to @Arzalyn of course!

I find Sylvaneth really hard to access right now. It's quite a steep investment because of things like the Wyldwoods, multiples of Kurnoth Hunters etc. Then there's how scattered their rules are across different bioks and FAQs. And of course how bad their reputation is from a competitive standpoint. But my lord, those models are gorgeous! 

I'm not looking to play tournaments, but I've learned that I just don't like the feeling a losing a game after feeling the whole time that everything's way easier for my opponent. Which is why I do look into these meta analysis'. I'd like to play 'good' units and subfactions but without spamming Sentinels and the like. But I also don't like to play what everyone's playing. It's complicated. 😅

The woods is a hidden cost in the army and one that hits long time players hard who have previous had upwards of 9 Citadel Forest kits and now needing to buy 1-3 of the new forest kits and a higher cost than a year ago... 

I would recommend buying one forest kit and using it as 3 individual pieces nad start small.  Crusade is a VERY good system so if you could find some people to try Path to Glory it might be a decent starting point?

Yes it's complicated.  I recommend getting games in at small points levels.  Hence Path to Glory too.  Learn your units and what they do.  But it's not bad to lean towards a few big guys.

[Maogrim]

11 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

The woods is a hidden cost in the army and one that hits long time players hard who have previous had upwards of 9 Citadel Forest kits and now needing to buy 1-3 of the new forest kits and a higher cost than a year ago... 

I would recommend buying one forest kit and using it as 3 individual pieces nad start small.  Crusade is a VERY good system so if you could find some people to try Path to Glory it might be a decent starting point?

Yes it's complicated.  I recommend getting games in at small points levels.  Hence Path to Glory too.  Learn your units and what they do.  But it's not bad to lean towards a few big guys.

Path to Glory unfortunately isn't to the liking of the guys I'm looking to play with. But Warcry might be an opportunity to at least paint some of those amazing models, at least for the time being. And I would imagine that there's a decent chance for Sylvaneth to get a new, cleaned-up battletome this year.

PS: It's kind of a shame that Oakenbrow seem so lackluster. I like their lore. 

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Thanks for the answer. The same goes to @Arzalyn of course!

I find Sylvaneth really hard to access right now. It's quite a steep investment because of things like the Wyldwoods, multiples of Kurnoth Hunters etc. Then there's how scattered their rules are across different bioks and FAQs. And of course how bad their reputation is from a competitive standpoint. But my lord, those models are gorgeous! 

I'm not looking to play tournaments, but I've learned that I just don't like the feeling a losing a game after feeling the whole time that everything's way easier for my opponent. Which is why I do look into these meta analysis'. I'd like to play 'good' units and subfactions but without spamming Sentinels and the like. But I also don't like to play what everyone's playing. It's complicated. 😅

If you aren't playing tournaments ask your play groups if they are ok with you using some proxies for the woods. I do it myself, got 1 box of trees and cut some cardboard of the model base shape and use those if I need more than 3 models in a game. Never had any problem with it and even the tournaments around here allow me to use this kind of proxy.  It helps saving some money to actual units.

If you aren't looking for the meta lists and if you don't play against them regularly, I would say that everything other than Ironbark (the bonus are bad, just go for it if you really want to ally some dwarves) is playable, as long as you build around the buff the subfaction is getting. Even Oakenbrown can have some legs if you maximize the treelords. We don't have something super broken, the closest thing to a "auto-include" we have is the Branchwraith, but mostly because she is a cheap hero with a really good spell (summoning 10 dryads).

[Maogrim]

Thank you guys so much. This is a really friendly and helpful subforum. 

Bonus question(s): Is the Arch Revenant any good? I really like the model! Same goes for Yltharis Guardians..

How do you actually use Revenants? Their teleport looks great but they seem awfully squishy with just 1 wound each. Especially as people seem to play them as MSUs. 

[Abstract_duck]

18 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

Thank you guys so much. This is a really friendly and helpful subforum. 

Bonus question(s): Is the Arch Revenant any good? I really like the model! Same goes for Yltharis Guardians..

How do you actually use Revenants? Their teleport looks great but they seem awfully squishy with just 1 wound each. Especially as people seem to play them as MSUs. 

Don't see the arch revenant in many lists, probably because the Kurnoth hunters fell out of favor, and if I remember correctly, the arch rev has overlap with heartwood - the kurnoth glade. I've seen arguments for using the attack buff of the arch revenant on tree-revenant's though . I think that was some time ago in this forum, and before the new cohesion rules which invalidate bigger units to stack the buff. 

The revenants are mostly useful as cheap battleline, so you can focus your points on bigger units, and as a decent screen for your hero's, or as objective getters if they make it to the lategame. In regards to that last point: If they live until the lategame, then your opponent is basically forced to keep units on objectives, or give them away to your teleports. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Abstract_duck

[readercolin]

18 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Thank you guys so much. This is a really friendly and helpful subforum. 

Bonus question(s): Is the Arch Revenant any good? I really like the model! Same goes for Yltharis Guardians..

How do you actually use Revenants? Their teleport looks great but they seem awfully squishy with just 1 wound each. Especially as people seem to play them as MSUs. 

The arch-revenant does 2 things - Kurnoth's get re-roll 1's to hit, and can give a unit +1 attacks (in melee) as a command ability.  If you are playing in a Kurnoth heavy list, and aren't playing Gnarlroot, bringing a revenant can be a good idea, and he saw a decent amount of play in 2nd edition when people were running 12-15 Kurnoth lists.  However, since at the moment Sylvaneth have moved more towards gnarlroot and more towards being spell heavy, he has fallen out of play because you already get the re-roll 1's to hit near a wizard.  Additionally, the limit of max 1 command ability per phase means you need to think hard about whether the +1 attacks is worth it, especially when you have to choose between that (at wholly within 9", so hard to use) or just hold your CP for all out attack/all out defense.

Basically, if you decide you want to play a hunter heavy build in something like winterleaf, he can be worth bringing with your army.  You'll just need to keep in mind that he might be hard to use.

As for the Revenants, by referring to the teleport I'm assuming you mean the tree revenants?  Basically, their use is to hide somewhere on the field away from objectives so that your opponent has to commit something if he wants to make them go away.  But, just having them on the field makes the battle tactics "Savage Spearhead" (2 units from your starting army in your opponents territory) and "Ferocious Advance" (run 3 units and end within 3" of each other) basically trivial, even later on in the game.  This is important to helping you hit all of your battle tactics in a game, and letting you choose other battle tactics at various points when they are available.  The second thing it does is forces your opponents to play a bit more conservatively.  If they leave an objective undefended, you can easily hop in and take it - and they are battleline which is important if you are playing "Power in Numbers".  You are also doing this with only 80 points per squad, which can have a big impact if you are forcing your opponent to keep 100-200 points back to defend their objectives.  Finally, while they aren't particularly strong in melee, with the ability to re-roll 1 die per turn, they don't have too much trouble teleporting and charging, and have enough damage output to threaten squishy support hero's/units.  Going with that, if you need something to eat an unleash hell, they are perfect for that as well, which can then let you charge in with a stronger unit more freely.

On the other hand, if you mean spite revenants... they exist because they are cheap battleline.  Otherwise, they are useless.  They were actually halfway decent in 2nd edition as a way to throw massive amounts of attacks at something and as a somewhat weak hammer unit, but between coherency rules, reinforcement rules, and the save stacking going on, they can no longer serve that purpose and you now only run them because you were 5-10 points over in your list and need to downgrade a unit of tree revenants to spite revenants.

[Maogrim]

2 hours ago, readercolin said:

The arch-revenant does 2 things - Kurnoth's get re-roll 1's to hit, and can give a unit +1 attacks (in melee) as a command ability.  If you are playing in a Kurnoth heavy list, and aren't playing Gnarlroot, bringing a revenant can be a good idea, and he saw a decent amount of play in 2nd edition when people were running 12-15 Kurnoth lists.  However, since at the moment Sylvaneth have moved more towards gnarlroot and more towards being spell heavy, he has fallen out of play because you already get the re-roll 1's to hit near a wizard.  Additionally, the limit of max 1 command ability per phase means you need to think hard about whether the +1 attacks is worth it, especially when you have to choose between that (at wholly within 9", so hard to use) or just hold your CP for all out attack/all out defense.

Basically, if you decide you want to play a hunter heavy build in something like winterleaf, he can be worth bringing with your army.  You'll just need to keep in mind that he might be hard to use.

As for the Revenants, by referring to the teleport I'm assuming you mean the tree revenants?  Basically, their use is to hide somewhere on the field away from objectives so that your opponent has to commit something if he wants to make them go away.  But, just having them on the field makes the battle tactics "Savage Spearhead" (2 units from your starting army in your opponents territory) and "Ferocious Advance" (run 3 units and end within 3" of each other) basically trivial, even later on in the game.  This is important to helping you hit all of your battle tactics in a game, and letting you choose other battle tactics at various points when they are available.  The second thing it does is forces your opponents to play a bit more conservatively.  If they leave an objective undefended, you can easily hop in and take it - and they are battleline which is important if you are playing "Power in Numbers".  You are also doing this with only 80 points per squad, which can have a big impact if you are forcing your opponent to keep 100-200 points back to defend their objectives.  Finally, while they aren't particularly strong in melee, with the ability to re-roll 1 die per turn, they don't have too much trouble teleporting and charging, and have enough damage output to threaten squishy support hero's/units.  Going with that, if you need something to eat an unleash hell, they are perfect for that as well, which can then let you charge in with a stronger unit more freely.

On the other hand, if you mean spite revenants... they exist because they are cheap battleline.  Otherwise, they are useless.  They were actually halfway decent in 2nd edition as a way to throw massive amounts of attacks at something and as a somewhat weak hammer unit, but between coherency rules, reinforcement rules, and the save stacking going on, they can no longer serve that purpose and you now only run them because you were 5-10 points over in your list and need to downgrade a unit of tree revenants to spite revenants.

Yeah, sorry, I did mean Tree Revenants. I somewhat called the Spite Revenant 'Spites' for myself and remembered the others as 'Revenants'. Sorry for the confusion.

So would you think that a Harvestboon Alpga Strike Melee Build with an Arch Revenant and Kurnoth Hunters could have play in a more casual environment against enemies like Stormcast Eternals or Slaves to Darkness?