AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Kiekeboe]

On 10/13/2021 at 3:55 AM, Tizianolol said:

Ye sorry my question was incorrerect.  If im in combat with a unit and i use navigate realm battle trait, can I shoot after? Is it counted as retreat?

It's not a retreat if you teleport out

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

It's not a retreat if you teleport out

You still need to be allowed to make a "Normal Move" to use Navigate Realmroots.

Btw, Skyvessels can only shoot after Fly High (same teleport as Navigate Realmroots) because they have an ability (Disengage) that allows Shooting after retreat (but no charge). Why KO must use that ability to shoot if a teleport is not a retreat?

Edited October 14, 2021 by Beliman

[Xil]

On 10/14/2021 at 2:38 PM, Beliman said:

You still need to be allowed to make a "Normal Move" to use Navigate Realmroots.

Btw, Skyvessels can only shoot after Fly High (same teleport as Navigate Realmroots) because they have an ability (Disengage) that allows Shooting after retreat (but no charge). Why KO must use that ability to shoot if a teleport is not a retreat?

Because it's specifically stated for KO as a restriction. 

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, Xil said:

Because it's specifically stated for KO as a restriction. 

Edited:
Technically, the FAQ is more a buff for KOs than a restriction:

Quote

Q: If I use the Fly High ability to disengage with a unit, can that unit still shoot or charge later in the same turn?
A: It can still shoot as per the Disengage ability but it cannot charge

In other words, the Skyvessels can shoot because Disengage allows that.

If your unit doesn't have any type of Disengage or any other ability that allows that, you can't shoot and/or charge (Tree-Revenants, Skywardens, Endrinriggers, Khainite Shadowstalkers, etc...).
 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Beliman

[Kiekeboe]

On 10/14/2021 at 2:38 PM, Beliman said:

You still need to be allowed to make a "Normal Move" to use Navigate Realmroots.

As written at this moment, yes, but that's only because of the recent Wyldwood-FAQ snafu. The current FAQ removed the new Navigate the Realmroots that was moved from the book to the Wyldwood scroll. We're now back to the original wording of the book ('instead of a normal move'), this is from back in 2nd edition where a 'normal move' was 'a move in the movement phase' and included a retreat move. The FAQ does still contain updates to the Treelord and Waypipe teleports where they added 'instead of a normal move or retreating'. It only makes sense that Navigate the Realmroots not getting the '...or retreating' update was an oversight.

Looking closer at the Treelord/Waypipe teleport you can see they are done INSTEAD of a normal move or retreating. No normal move or retreat happened so the Treelord variants and Tree-revenants are allowed to shoot/charge after using their teleport abilities, even when used from combat because you're allowed to do the teleport when you're eligible to make a retreat move. Any TO will rule the allegiance ability to work the same way and as such I'll be playing it like that. 

TL;DR: Treelords(Durthu/Ancient/Regular) and Tree-Revenants are allowed to use their warscroll teleport when they're in combat and shoot+charge afterwards. Navigate the Realmroots can, as written, not be used from combat, but previous FAQs/deduced intention/current Treelord teleport FAQ shows you should be able to shoot/charge after using the allegiance teleport so that's how you should play it.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Kiekeboe

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

As written at this moment, yes, but that's only because of the recent Wyldwood-FAQ snafu. The current FAQ removed the new Navigate the Realmroots that was moved from the book to the Wyldwood scroll. We're now back to the original wording of the book ('instead of a normal move'), this is from back in 2nd edition where a 'normal move' was 'a move in the movement phase' and included a retreat move. The FAQ does still contain updates to the Treelord and Waypipe teleports where they added 'instead of a normal move or retreating'. It only makes sense that Navigate the Realmroots not getting the '...or retreating' update was an oversight.

Looking closer at the Treelord/Waypipe teleport you can see they are done INSTEAD of a normal move or retreating. No normal move or retreat happened so the Treelord variants and Tree-revenants are allowed to shoot/charge after using their teleport abilities, even when used from combat because you're allowed to do the teleport when you're eligible to make a retreat move. Any TO will rule the allegiance ability to work the same way and as such I'll be playing it like that. 

TL;DR: Treelords(Durthu/Ancient/Regular) and Tree-Revenants are allowed to use their warscroll teleport when they're in combat and shoot+charge afterwards. Navigate the Realmroots can, as written, not be used from combat, but previous FAQs/deduced intention/current Treelord teleport FAQ shows you should be able to shoot/charge after using the allegiance teleport so that's how you should play it.

I completely understand that, but why KOs can shoot after Disengage/retreat as is stated in their FAQ if, as you said, it's not needed?

Another argument that can answer this question is that when you replace a movement (instead of...) you still have the same restrictions as the movement that you replaced (if any) too.

Btw, not all TO are going to play like you said. A national league (20+ tournaments) was presented two weeks ago and it seems that they are not going to allow to shoot/charge after a teleport that has "instead of making a retreat..." unless they have an ability that allows that.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Beliman

[Tizianolol]

Guys vengeful forest sporit ability from awakened wildwood happens at the end of mine and my opponent charge phase? If my opponent got a unit with fly , it can suffer d3 mw too? Thx a lot!:)

[Xil]

21 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys vengeful forest sporit ability from awakened wildwood happens at the end of mine and my opponent charge phase? If my opponent got a unit with fly , it can suffer d3 mw too? Thx a lot!:)

Yes, every players Charge Phase at the end. 

Yes, fly gets hit too. 

[Xil]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:53 PM, Beliman said:

I completely understand that, but why KOs can shoot after Disengage/retreat as is stated in their FAQ if, as you said, it's not needed?

Another argument that can answer this question is that when you replace a movement (instead of...) you still have the same restrictions as the movement that you replaced (if any) too.

Btw, not all TO are going to play like you said. A national league (20+ tournaments) was presented two weeks ago and it seems that they are not going to allow to shoot/charge after a teleport that has "instead of making a retreat..." unless they have an ability that allows that.

Instead of making a retreat, implies that you are NOT making a retreat because you do something else. 

Either my understanding of language is retarded or English is retarded

 

If i say instead of flying to GW Headquarters I can walk. Then I walk and don't fly, also I don't count as flying as I was walking. 

These rules discussions are getting out of hand lately for the sake of stupid discussions... 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Xil

[Beliman]

On 10/18/2021 at 11:08 PM, Xil said:

Instead of making a retreat, implies that you are NOT making a retreat because you do something else. 

Either my understanding of language is retarded or English is retarded

If i say instead of flying to GW Headquarters I can walk. Then I walk and don't fly, also I don't count as flying as I was walking. 

Yeah, I already said that I completely understand what you are saying  and we played like this before the first 3.0 FAQs (we thought exactly the same). But as I already said before, we have a FAQ now:

Quote

Q: If I use the Fly High ability to disengage with a unit, can that unit still shoot or charge later in the same turn?

A: It can still shoot as per the Disengage ability but it cannot charge.

To people that don't know about KOs, Fly High is a teleport ability with the same description of Waypipes: "Instead of making a retreat...". Disengage is an ability that let you shoot after a Reatreat Move.

If I don't make a Retreat Move with Fly High, why I'm Disengaging/Retreating? What's the logic behind that FAQ?
And the answer is clear, units with Disengage are the only ones that can shoot.

On 10/18/2021 at 11:08 PM, Xil said:

These rules discussions are getting out of hand lately for the sake of stupid discussions... 

Maybe. But that's what happens when GW write a rule that points out in one direction and a new FAQ says otherwise...

Btw, play as you like. I'm just trying to say that maybe we are playing/played it wrong.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Beliman
grammar

[Tizianolol]

Guys can I cast my wildwood spell with vespareal gem artifact now? Thx a lot!

[Aezeal]

22 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys can I cast my wildwood spell with vespareal gem artifact now? Thx a lot!

Is this a serious question? I'm perfectly happy to explain my view on hard to interpret rules or FAQ's or to brainstorm about them.... however.. this question doesn't fit the bill. So I have a question for you: what have you done to find the answer to this Q. I'd like to see all the extensive work you've put in this yourself so we can see where the problem is in your interpretation of the rules, FAQ, errata etc. I think you might even get to the answer yourself.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Aezeal

[Tizianolol]

On app they put verdant blessing spell on all wizard warscroll, its not an FAQ. Its just the app. There were no reason to do that, but they did it. Maybe something is changed about how to consider that spell. So I asked , i q because I thought to have miss something. Thx for A anyway.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Tizianolol

[Popisdead]

16 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Is this a serious question? I'm perfectly happy to explain my view on hard to interpret rules or FAQ's or to brainstorm about them.... however.. this question doesn't fit the bill. So I have a question for you: what have you done to find the answer to this Q. I'd like to see all the extensive work you've put in this yourself so we can see where the problem is in your interpretation of the rules, FAQ, errata etc. I think you might even get to the answer yourself.

GW is treading waters of creating confusion between a myriad of places and sources during a pandemic.

The poster could also be ESL or 11 years old.  Why assume they didn't do any solving on their own?

I see no reason to warrant a reply like this.

[a74xhx]

15 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

On app they put verdant blessing spell on all wizard warscroll, its not an FAQ. Its just the app. There were no reason to do that, but they did it. Maybe something is changed about how to consider that spell. So I asked , i q because I thought to have miss something. Thx for A anyway.

Verdant Blessing is not part of the Lore of the Deepwood.

If the app had put Verdant Blessing on spell lore page then it would have made that page a little confusing (as there would be a single spell there that isn't in the Lore of the Deepwood).

Every Sylvaneth wizard knows Verdant Blessing. 

Therefore the app has simplified things by putting Verdant Blessing onto the warscrolls.

Nothing of any effect has changed.

 

[Gaz Taylor]

16 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Is this a serious question? I'm perfectly happy to explain my view on hard to interpret rules or FAQ's or to brainstorm about them.... however.. this question doesn't fit the bill. So I have a question for you: what have you done to find the answer to this Q. I'd like to see all the extensive work you've put in this yourself so we can see where the problem is in your interpretation of the rules, FAQ, errata etc. I think you might even get to the answer yourself.

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Just a reminder that not everybody may have been playing for as long as yourself and may not be aware of FAQs or how the rules interact with each other. So just bear that in mind when replying to questions like this 😉

[mojojojo101]

18 hours ago, a74xhx said:

Verdant Blessing is not part of the Lore of the Deepwood.

If the app had put Verdant Blessing on spell lore page then it would have made that page a little confusing (as there would be a single spell there that isn't in the Lore of the Deepwood).

Every Sylvaneth wizard knows Verdant Blessing. 

Therefore the app has simplified things by putting Verdant Blessing onto the warscrolls.

Nothing of any effect has changed.

 

The only problem with this comes if you want to use a Sylvaneth Wizard as an ally. Right now you might get the impression that doing so allows you to cast Verdant Blessing, which, afaik, you still cannot.

[Arnied3]

Hey all

Got a friendly game coming up against Sons Of Behemat - 2 Maneaters, 2 Megas (Warstompers) and Kragnos.......I already know i'm screwed but has anyone fought these guys before? Any advice? 

 

I'm thinking of Durthu in Harvestboon so I'll be aiming for the charge with him as much as possible so i can just hit them first and 'Seek New Fruit' myself out of there! 

[CarkFish]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:59 PM, Aezeal said:

Is this a serious question? I'm perfectly happy to explain my view on hard to interpret rules or FAQ's or to brainstorm about them.... however.. this question doesn't fit the bill. So I have a question for you: what have you done to find the answer to this Q. I'd like to see all the extensive work you've put in this yourself so we can see where the problem is in your interpretation of the rules, FAQ, errata etc. I think you might even get to the answer yourself.

Dude! ... Do yourself a favour and read your posts back to yourself... You sound like complete tool here

[Aezeal]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:16 PM, Popisdead said:

GW is treading waters of creating confusion between a myriad of places and sources during a pandemic.

The poster could also be ESL or 11 years old.  Why assume they didn't do any solving on their own?

I see no reason to warrant a reply like this.

On 11/6/2021 at 10:29 AM, CarkFish said:

Dude! ... Do yourself a favour and read your posts back to yourself... You sound like complete tool here

Yeah did it, don't agree though. An 11- year old that can find this forum should be able to find the official FAQ's of the official GW site and it's literally the first thing mentioned in there and not in a way that can be misinterpreted.  So I feel some small criticism was vaIid. I didn't use swear words (unlike some who call others a tool - which is probably more against the rules of this forum) and basicly only called him a bit lazy so lets keep it at freedom of speech and not get excessively woke just because of some criticism. Criticism isn't bad, it's part of life and to be expected unless you are perfect.

PS in my comment I actually pointed him towards the FAQ/Errata.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime

 

 

[CarkFish]

22 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Yeah did it, don't agree though. An 11- year old that can find this forum should be able to find the official FAQ's of the official GW site and it's literally the first thing mentioned in there and not in a way that can be misinterpreted.  So I feel some small criticism was vaIid. I didn't use swear words (unlike some who call others a tool - which is probably more against the rules of this forum) and basicly only called him a bit lazy so lets keep it at freedom of speech and not get excessively woke just because of some criticism. Criticism isn't bad, it's part of life and to be expected unless you are perfect.

PS in my comment I actually pointed him towards the FAQ/Errata.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime

 

 

Yup, you still come over like tool ... Perhaps it's just you 

[Aezeal]

Just now, CarkFish said:

Yup, you still come over like tool ... Perhaps it's just you 

Yeah could be or you are overly sensitively woke, and think that protecting people against minimal justified criticism makes the world better (Hint: it doesn't it just makes them get hurt harder in the end when they do real stupid things because they haven't learned to deal with criticism). I guess we'll never know  .

But please continue this completely off topic rant, I feel that after ignoring 2 comments a few days ago I'm entitled to a reaction now so I certainly won't. I'm sure it will help you feel more mature not to accept different opinions and freedom of speech (and leave it at that as I suggested).

[CarkFish]

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

Yeah could be or you are overly sensitively woke, and think that protecting people against minimal justified criticism makes the world better (Hint: it doesn't it just makes them get hurt harder in the end when they do real stupid things because they haven't learned to deal with criticism). I guess we'll never know  .

But please continue this completely off topic rant, I feel that after ignoring 2 comments a few days ago I'm entitled to a reaction now so I certainly won't. I'm sure it will help you feel more mature not to accept different opinions and freedom of speech (and leave it at that as I suggested).

This hole just gets deeper ... Fun 😜

Edited November 7, 2021 by CarkFish
None

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Really not impressed here folks. 
 

@CarkFish - Calling somebody a tool isn’t on. If you don’t like how somebody has point their points across, you can express this without name calling. Or better yet, don’t engage and let the Mods know.

@Aezeal - Your attitude here is terrible. If somebody is asking a question they either don’t know the answer or want some reassurance. Whilst GW have made massive improvements in how they lay out their rules, it can still be confusing if you having been playing games long. You can answer the question in a helpful way (such as it’s in the FAQ which can be found on the community site) or not engage.

Now let’s get back on topic.., 

[CarkFish]

7 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Really not impressed here folks. 
 

@CarkFish - Calling somebody a tool isn’t on. If you don’t like how somebody has point their points across, you can express this without name calling. Or better yet, don’t engage and let the Mods know.

@Aezeal - Your attitude here is terrible. If somebody is asking a question they either don’t know the answer or want some reassurance. Whilst GW have made massive improvements in how they lay out their rules, it can still be confusing if you having been playing games long. You can answer the question in a helpful way (such as it’s in the FAQ which can be found on the community site) or not engage.

Now let’s get back on topic.., 

My apologies Gaz ... Moving on 🙂