AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Arzalyn]

3 minutes ago, Abstract_duck said:

I don't think people would disallow using it, still.. Since the FAQ states that is ought to be replaced by the same skill on the warscroll. QUite obviously the point here is that, for instance, living cities, could also use the teleport instead of just sylvaneth.

--

New winterleaf command seems nice with drycha. Double mortals with ranged, right? What was the ruling with flaming weapon & unique's, again? 

On casual games yeah, but for tournaments can be hard to convince a TO or other players sometimes. Its clear a mistake from who edited our faq that forgot to add, so lets hope they fix it soon. 

Does the command work with Drycha? As far as I remember multiple effects on 6s don't stack anymore, you choose which one of them you want to apply.

[Ragest]

I have been fighting for the rend of Morathi from 2 months, I don’t want the same with Sylvaneth.

Very sad right now.

[Kiekeboe]

The ball was absolutely dropped with this FAQ. Jeez. 

- No more allegiance Wyldwood teleport.
- Faction Terrain rules now stack on top of the rules from where they're summoned -  so 3" away from terrain, objectives, and now models as well. And you're now required to put them in your own deployment zone.
- Back to a single wood consisting of 1,2, or 3 pieces instead of 3x1 (I'm okay with this, spamming the board wasn't fun).
- The new winterleaf command ability is just garbage. We don't have units that benefit from this (doesn't work on drycha because when multiple things happen on a 6, you choose one of them).
 

Outside of the Sylvaneth part of the FAQ we now have save-after-save back. So if save stacking wasn't keeping things alive, you can now stack your after-saves again.

 

Honestly I believe some of these are genuine mistakes. Unfortunately we won't know until they fix them, so for now we'll have to live with this.

[Domize]

10 minutes ago, Kiekeboe said:

The ball was absolutely dropped with this FAQ. Jeez. 

- No more allegiance Wyldwood teleport.
- Faction Terrain rules now stack on top of the rules from where they're summoned -  so 3" away from terrain, objectives, and now models as well. And you're now required to put them in your own deployment zone.
- Back to a single wood consisting of 1,2, or 3 pieces instead of 3x1 (I'm okay with this, spamming the board wasn't fun).
- The new winterleaf command ability is just garbage. We don't have units that benefit from this (doesn't work on drycha because when multiple things happen on a 6, you choose one of them).
 

Outside of the Sylvaneth part of the FAQ we now have save-after-save back. So if save stacking wasn't keeping things alive, you can now stack your after-saves again.

 

Honestly I believe some of these are genuine mistakes. Unfortunately we won't know until they fix them, so for now we'll have to live with this.

Sorry, might be misunderstanding you here - but do you mean you can't summon in trees during that game in your enemies zone? Or are you just referring to the setup of your initial set of trees having to be in your own deployment zone? I certainly hope so lol.

[Kaylethia]

You can still summon trees all over the board during the game.

[Landohammer]

You can no longer summon 3 distinct pieces of terrain with each summon. We are back to a single model consisting of 1-3 pieces.

This absolutely nerfs us back to 2.0 levels. The ability to summon 3 separate trees per use was critical to us capitalizing on our teleport. (which also, hilariously, was forgotten about and is now gone RAW).

This is a bad day to be a tree 😭

[Sleepa]

21 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

You can no longer summon 3 distinct pieces of terrain with each summon. We are back to a single model consisting of 1-3 pieces.

This absolutely nerfs us back to 2.0 levels. The ability to summon 3 separate trees per use was critical to us capitalizing on our teleport. (which also, hilariously, was forgotten about and is now gone RAW).

This is a bad day to be a tree 😭

I think the multi-summons was bad for the game long-term. It made it mandatory for Sylvaneth players to own like 5 sets of woods minimum. But forgetting to put Navigate Realmroots back on the scroll and forcing the 3" from everything placement is just brutal for us.

[Landohammer]

There are a lot of things in that are bad for the game, but spamming trees was not one of them. It gave us a pretty big leg up competitively, since it let us teleport with a lot more versatility. 

 We have always had to have a lot of forests, that change had no impact on that. 

[Sleepa]

10 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

There are a lot of things in that are bad for the game, but spamming trees was not one of them. It gave us a pretty big leg up competitively, since it let us teleport with a lot more versatility. 

 We have always had to have a lot of forests, that change had no impact on that. 

Didn't Mathmallow say at that one GT he was at, that in two of his games he ran out of trees after summoning 15, and would have easily been able to summon 3-6 more; and WOULD have? That's too many man. Like.... we're talking over $400 worth of faction terrain.

[Sleepa]

For those of us who have tons that's maybe doable. But for new players? Sylvaneth wouldn't be a viable army choice anymore.

[Mirage8112]

2 hours ago, Kiekeboe said:

The ball was absolutely dropped with this FAQ. Jeez. 

- No more allegiance Wyldwood teleport.
- Faction Terrain rules now stack on top of the rules from where they're summoned -  so 3" away from terrain, objectives, and now models as well. And you're now required to put them in your own deployment zone.
- Back to a single wood consisting of 1,2, or 3 pieces instead of 3x1 (I'm okay with this, spamming the board wasn't fun).
- The new winterleaf command ability is just garbage. We don't have units that benefit from this (doesn't work on drycha because when multiple things happen on a 6, you choose one of them).

This is pretty much how I read all of this too. This new warscroll is FAR more restrictive than the old one, and the additional changes to placement are a pretty bitter pill to swallow. 

Even if the changes to our allegiance ability are returned this is a real kick in the acorns.

As far as a silver lining goes, it looks to me like dreadwood just had it’s stock tick up a few notches, since that CA teleport is now the only way to move a non TL variant around the board. And even if that oversight is fixed, it will be much harder to move units with less woods on the table and teleport nodes confined to our territory. 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Mirage8112

[Landohammer]

51 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

For those of us who have tons that's maybe doable. But for new players? Sylvaneth wouldn't be a viable army choice anymore.

 

I think I see your point now. Reducing it from 3 models to 1-3 models per summon does lower the threshold of minimum models needed to play the faction and perform a teleport. You are correct. 

But I don't understand why that had to take away the ability to summon 3 separate pieces with each summon. It was absolutely a huge buff that we desperately needed.

As it stands, we probably have one of the worst 3 basic allegiance rules in the game, since it hedges entirely on either getting a spell off or bringing a model that can auto-summon it. The "split" rule helped alleviate that. 

I guess its all moot since we don't technically have the teleport at the moment lol. Here's hoping several paragraphs are missing from that warscroll

 

 

 

[Sleepa]

1 minute ago, Landohammer said:

 

I think I see your point now. Reducing it from 3 models to 1-3 models per summon does lower the threshold of minimum models needed to play the faction and perform a teleport. You are correct. 

But I don't understand why that had to take away the ability to summon 3 separate pieces with each summon. It was absolutely a huge buff that we desperately needed.

As it stands, we probably have one of the worst 3 basic allegiance rules in the game, since it hedges entirely on either getting a spell off or bringing a model that can auto-summon it. The "split" rule helped alleviate that. 

I guess its all moot since we don't technically have the teleport at the moment lol. Here's hoping several paragraphs are missing from that warscroll

 

 

 

Yeah I agree that it could have still been 1-3 combined or individual. Especially since they made it explicitly clear we have to keep them 3" from EVERYTHING

[Abstract_duck]

In regards to the trees, I do feel like the following would be technically legal:
 

This faction terrain feature consists of 1-3 scenery pieces. If an Awakened Wyldwood has more than 1 scenery piece, each piece must be set up touching all of the other pieces to form a circle with an area of open ground inside the circle. The area of open ground inside the circle is considered...

I'd say that you are technically still forming a circle if you, say, do this:

 

As I said, I wouldn't do it in a friendly game.. But if you are playing someone who is unreasonably strict in regards to the navigate realmroot etc.. perhaps something to consider. 

[Tizianolol]

Guys if they fix our allegiance and we can deploy wood in enemy zone its not so bad imo. I thought i could deploy wildwood only  in my board too...:(

[Kaylethia]

4 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

teleport nodes confined to our territory. 

Not seeing anything about that on the updated warscroll in the section that covers summoning during the game.

[Mirage8112]

22 minutes ago, Kaylethia said:

Not seeing anything about that on the updated warscroll in the section that covers summoning during the game.

This seems unclear. The faq for the core rules says (roughly) all restrictions for placing the first wood apply to subsequent woods. 
 

Im not convinced either way, because the wording for the entire update seems badly written. I probably won’t play it that way, I can only tolerate so many nerfs at a time and I’m not inclined to fish for more unless I’m totally sure.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Mirage8112

[Kaylethia]

I stand corrected. 

And I don't really have words.

[Lanoss]

Why can’t we teleport through trees anymore? It’s still our allegiance ability

[Vastianos]

1 hour ago, Lanoss said:

Why can’t we teleport through trees anymore? It’s still our allegiance ability

They removed it as an allegiance ability and put it on the awakened wyldwood warscroll in our last faq update. In this one, they also removed it from the warscroll.

[Abstract_duck]

Besides the current situation, the idea of only placing trees In your own territory opens up interesting design ideas, I think. For instance if you could teleport to trees from everywhere on the map with less restrictions like setting up 9 inches from enemy models, it would open up an interesting hit & run style in combination with a defensive ability to protect your own territory. I think this would fit more with the flavour of defending your own ancient forests. 

[Ragest]

The warscroll says that you place woods based on the abilities, so you are not forced to do it wholly within your territory. That’s just an overread.

[Mirage8112]

12 minutes ago, Ragest said:

The warscroll says that you place woods based on the abilities, so you are not forced to do it wholly within your territory. That’s just an overread.

Supposedly the rules writers have been made aware of the difficulty with the way the warscroll is written and are working on a solution. Hopefully we get some clarify on how this is actually supposed to work.

[Mokoshkana]

5 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Supposedly the rules writers have been made aware of the difficulty with the way the warscroll is written and are working on a solution. Hopefully we get some clarify on how this is actually supposed to work.

This is just shoddy craftsmanship. Where is the QA on this? The warscroll has now changed thrice in three months, these last two have just been written in a manner that screams “it’s Friday and all I have to do before I leave is write the new Wyldwood warscroll, so I’m just going spit out something quick and hope for the best.” I have zero faith that it will get fixed in a way that doesn’t invalidate something else or create a whole new cluster of questions about an interaction that the devs/QA folks just ignored. 

[plavski]

The rules writers obviously have an idea in mind of how they want Sylvaneth to play in 3.0, but can't really manage to get it down on paper. It seems like they take it in turns to do Sylvaneth, each dev re-doing the previous dev's work until they get something that no-one is happy with. It's a shame, but at least the devs are aware of the clear problems and will look at it again. If they just revert the tree warscroll - a relatively easy change, because the translations are already done - we'll probably be fine again. Not top tier, but back to middle of the pack at least.