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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin
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1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Hey guys, I am bringing a Treelord Ancient and 18 Kurnoth Hunters to a tourney on sat.

Am I understanding it correctly that if the TLA pops his CA in the hero phase, that all Kurnoth Hunters on the board would benefit from the +1 save until the your next hero phase? (due to Envoy of the Everqueen?)

Seems insanely good. And yet I haven't heard much chatter about it. Assuming you are facing Rend 1 or 2 you would effectively have a 2+ save if you don't charge. 

TLA seems a geven in 2k lists (i made a few 1k lists and the benefits are less since the TLA and battleline hog a large share of the points ). Especially with our non battleline units with high saves its great.. really cuts down on damage when you go fron 3+ to 2+. 

Edited by Aezeal
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2 hours ago, Landohammer said:

I was a pretty big hater of the TLA in 2nd, but with the buff to forests, monsters, heros, and now that command ability, he has become quite the toolbox.

He is a good support addition and the new rules (monster, hero) benefit him.  He also incidentally yeah had a cmd ability buff in this edition change.  Also Sylvaneth have an endless spell to buff armour so you can increase his save pool to overcome rend with him.  having a 2+ with another pip in a save pool and rr 1s makes him a bit tanky and he compliments the Warsong who appears to be an auto-include.  

I'm not sure how this person placed but they did well in a recent tournament. 

 

warsong rev in command, nurtured by magic, chalice of nectar, flaming weapon, 
ancient, spirit song stave, regrowth, 
drycha
branchwych 
3x 5 trevs
3x 3 Sword hunters
6 scythes
spitswarm hive
glade wyrm
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2 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

He is a good support addition and the new rules (monster, hero) benefit him.  He also incidentally yeah had a cmd ability buff in this edition change.  Also Sylvaneth have an endless spell to buff armour so you can increase his save pool to overcome rend with him.  having a 2+ with another pip in a save pool and rr 1s makes him a bit tanky and he compliments the Warsong who appears to be an auto-include.  

I'm not sure how this person placed but they did well in a recent tournament. 

 

warsong rev in command, nurtured by magic, chalice of nectar, flaming weapon, 
ancient, spirit song stave, regrowth, 
drycha
branchwych 
3x 5 trevs
3x 3 Sword hunters
6 scythes
spitswarm hive
glade wyrm

No wonder he did well, his list is 2440pts lol. Is that supposed to be 1x3 Sword Hunters maybe?

I am only thinking Warsong to be effective when doing the spellportal+throne of vines combo. Without that he is just two really reliable spells every turn. 

 

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2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

I'm not sure how this person placed but they did well in a recent tournament. 

 

warsong rev in command, nurtured by magic, chalice of nectar, flaming weapon, 
ancient, spirit song stave, regrowth, 
drycha
branchwych 
3x 5 trevs
3x 3 Sword hunters
6 scythes
spitswarm hive
glade wyrm

The list went 4-1, took 5th place and Best Order General. The 1st place list was a TLA, Durthu and Yndrasta in a Living Cities list.

details here: Goonhammer
 

Sylvaneth seem to be doing very well at the moment. I’ve seen a lot of super positive feedback from players who are seeing lots of wins, and now we’re seeing very respectable placement at tournaments. 

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11 hours ago, Popisdead said:

warsong rev in command, nurtured by magic, chalice of nectar, flaming weapon, 

ancient, spirit song stave, regrowth, 
drycha
branchwych 
3x 5 trevs
3x 3 Sword hunters
6 scythes
spitswarm hive
glade wyrm

 

9 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

The list went 4-1, took 5th place and Best Order General. The 1st place list was a TLA, Durthu and Yndrasta in a Living Cities list.

details here: Goonhammer

Are any battlereports from this list somewhere?

It surprises me that he didn't even try to summon dryads, so he didn't have any screens (as per the comment in the link, he used Tree revenants as objective stealers, not for screening purposes). Why would you play Branchwych over wraith if you still have available points? I would understand it if you were tight at 2k points, but that's not the case.

It seems that Gnarlroot+Warsong+TLA is the way to go, and Kurnoth Hunters are the still better option than Treelords. Also, Gladewyrm is included, It can bring the army lots of heal and MW output. Spell portal doesn't seem an optimal pick for torunaments I guess.

What do you think about the list?

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On 7/23/2021 at 7:36 AM, Walkirriox said:

 

Are any battlereports from this list somewhere?

It surprises me that he didn't even try to summon dryads, so he didn't have any screens (as per the comment in the link, he used Tree revenants as objective stealers, not for screening purposes). Why would you play Branchwych over wraith if you still have available points? I would understand it if you were tight at 2k points, but that's not the case.

He's on twitter, so you can tweet him and ask! I think we'd all like to hear his reasoning. It's clearly sound! 

 

 

Edited by plavski
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Played three games so far with Sylvaneth in 3.0. Against Fyreslayers, Beasts of Chaos (ironically this was the toughest fight) and Kharadrons (in this fight we decided to resign from double turn. I recommend it to everyone). All won.

I'm running Alarielle (summon Scythes), Durthu, Treelord, Archrev, dryads, 2x tree rev, Scythes, gladewyrm. It's just a casual list but I've played Sylvaneth a lot and thus I am capable of winning against armies considered stronger. Most important changes from my perspective are new rules for Wyldwoods. Ability to summon 3 independent Wyldwoods in one move is huge. It gives a lot of flexibility to teleport across the map. Secondly Alarielle is a real beast when you can easily make her save 2+ and all sorts of healing (skill, spell, gladewyrm). New Metamorphosis is also a killer. It can easily deal 7+ mortal rules (I managed to score 11 MW against BoS). Alarielle and Durthu both benefit from Heroic Actions and Mystic shield making them 2+. I still think that units costs were increased too much compared to other armies. Alarielle is cool but I'm sure that running Warsong, Drycha and something more in her place will be more effective. Kurnoths should be around Annihilators cost.

I need a clarification on Wyldwoods. What's the consensus about summoning trees out of initial scenery set up? Are we allowed to summon 1,2 or three trees independently while using spell, artifact or TLA? Or just when setting up faction terrain?

Edited by Aeryenn
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I have a more conceptual question, something that I struggle with a lot. In my last game, I pulled off somewhat of a god-turn. Collapsed almost all of my army onto the enemy center. This happens almost never for me, usually units will fail relatively simple charges, this time three out of six units got buffed by the hive, all six units successfully charged, the seventh was a unit of tree-revenants that didn't make it even with the reroll. And this has brought to my attention that I am horrible at estimating projection of force for my own army, especially with bigger units like dryads.

How do you do it, and do you have any tips or tricks?

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Quick summary of a 1 day, 18 man tourney I attended this weekend. List was Winterleaf, TLA, Branchwraith, 6 Scythes, 6 Swords, 3 Swords, 5 spites, 10 spites, 5 Tree revs, Hive, Cogs, and an Alloplex. 

Game 1. Veins of Ghur; Sons of Behemat

This was a rough matchup for this scenario, since he took the sub that makes his mega gargants worth 30 models on an objective. Also 2 of the 3 objectives landed close together. I was able to kill all his smaller giants but the two megas just camped on objectives and murdered anything that got close. 1 Mega survived until the end of game but that was all he needed. 28-35 giants win. He scored 13 of those points in the last turn so it was a lot closer than it seems! 

Game 2. The Vice; Flesh Eater Courts

Game started out rough. He deepstriked 20 ghouls in my backfield (i anticipated terrorgeists getting there but not ghouls). However he failed his charge. I declared Broken Ranks (kill a battleline unit) and charged 4 units into them. I failed 2 of the easy charges only making it with spites and a shark. Still managed to kill 18/20 but those two survived with inspiring presence. Making me miss my battle tactic. :(

Otherwise we went back and forth exchanging units. His ability to double fight every turn really added up but my hunters did work too. I had hive up most of the game but it continued to fail the 2+ when it counted, making me rely on 9+ charges. I was down 15-17 but we both had Predators Domain as Grand, meaning only one of us could get it. My forests gave me the edge here and I took it 18-17 Sylvaneth win

Game 3. Power Struggle; Tzeentch

This game wasn't super enjoyable bc the opponent was clearly in a bad mood and played very slow. But tactically it was a very close game. He struggled to take down Hunters with Heed the Spirit song up, but he was a lot more mobile and his shooting and magic really diminished my key units. He easily dispelled Hive every time I attempted it. It came down to the final turn when I charged 6 scythes into his Lord of Change on the center objective. He roared and denied me All out attack, and combined with his -1 to hit locus I only got 6 wounds through, and only 1's and 2's on damage for a whopping 6 damage lol. Time was called before we got to play turn 5. If I had another turn I would have took it but final score ended up being 16-18 Tzeentch wins.

Overall I went 1-2, but each game literally came down to the last turn so I was super pleased with the performance given the matchups, and I had a great time.

Takeaways

-TLA has finally come into his own. Heed the spirit song single handedly takes the army up a notch. My Hunters were ALWAYS on a 3+ save, usually ignoring rend 1. The free forests, ASL, monstrous rampage, heroic actions, and spell also contributed greatly. He will be in every list I take. 

-I knew going in that Hive was a risk. But between Cogs and Throne of vines I usually got it off when I needed it, but it was deadweight vs Tzeentch and I failed the 2+ in multiple critical situations. 

-Spites were absolutely deadweight. They were easy Broken Rank points for my opponent and didn't do anything but screen. I will probably convert some of the 50 that I have to Tree Revs lol. 

-MonsterHero hammer is the new meta. The tourney was won by Belakor+Sigvald Slaanesh, with second place going to Archaon tzeentch. Both went undefeated. There were a lot of  Archaons, Belakors, Morathi, Mega Gargants  and Kairos/Loc running around. 

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4 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

Played three games so far with Sylvaneth in 3.0. Against Fyreslayers, Beasts of Chaos (ironically this was the toughest fight) and Kharadrons (in this fight we decided to resign from double turn. I recommend it to everyone). All won.

I'm running Alarielle (summon Scythes), Durthu, Treelord, Archrev, dryads, 2x tree rev, Scythes, gladewyrm. It's just a casual list but I've played Sylvaneth a lot and thus I am capable of winning against armies considered stronger. Most important changes from my perspective are new rules for Wyldwoods. Ability to summon 3 independent Wyldwoods in one move is huge. It gives a lot of flexibility to teleport across the map. Secondly Alarielle is a real beast when you can easily make her save 2+ and all sorts of healing (skill, spell, gladewyrm). New Metamorphosis is also a killer. It can easily deal 7+ mortal rules (I managed to score 11 MW against BoS). Alarielle and Durthu both benefit from Heroic Actions and Mystic shield making them 2+. I still think that units costs were increased too much compared to other armies. Alarielle is cool but I'm sure that running Warsong, Drycha and something more in her place will be more effective. Kurnoths should be around Annihilators cost.

I need a clarification on Wyldwoods. What's the consensus about summoning trees out of initial scenery set up? Are we allowed to summon 1,2 or three trees independently while using spell, artifact or TLA? Or just when setting up faction terrain?

My interpretation is that you MUST setup 3 trees. Though I use the 1" rule rather than the 3" rule for summoned wyldwoods, so I have never had a situation where I couldn't fit them somewhere. I only use the 3" rule on the initial pre game setups. 

My logic behind this is that other factions aren't allowed to summon incomplete units of models. If they don't fit, they can't summon them. This is key because it lets you screen out an area based on a units foot print. If my opponent could summon 3 blue horrors rather than 10 then it makes screening them out pretty much impossible. 

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35 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

My interpretation is that you MUST setup 3 trees. Though I use the 1" rule rather than the 3" rule for summoned wyldwoods, so I have never had a situation where I couldn't fit them somewhere. I only use the 3" rule on the initial pre game setups. 

My logic behind this is that other factions aren't allowed to summon incomplete units of models. If they don't fit, they can't summon them. This is key because it lets you screen out an area based on a units foot print. If my opponent could summon 3 blue horrors rather than 10 then it makes screening them out pretty much impossible. 

I wouldn't say you MUST as setting them as 3 separated Trees don't count them as one faction terrain, but 3 individual terrain features. From the rules in the FAQ:

If you set them up more than 3" from each other, they form 3 small Awakened Wyldwoods that are separate faction terrain features.

As they are 3 separated terrain features, been unable to place 1 of them it shouldn't stop you from placing the remaining ones.

Edited by Arzalyn
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16 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

I wouldn't say you MUST as setting them as 3 separated Trees don't count them as one faction terrain, but 3 individual terrain features. From the rules in the FAQ:

If you set them up more than 3" from each other, they form 3 small Awakened Wyldwoods that are separate faction terrain features.

As they are 3 separated terrain features, been unable to place 1 of them it shouldn't stop you from placing the remaining ones.

It needs an FAQ, but it says "setup 3" not "setup up to 3". So I am just trying to interpret it based on similar pre-existing situations, which is how I imagine TO's will rule it on the spot.

And if I don't have to set up all the models I summon then it opens up a lot of weird doors that i don't want to deal with lol. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

It needs an FAQ, but it says "setup 3" not "setup up to 3". So I am just trying to interpret it based on similar pre-existing situations, which is how I imagine TO's will rule it on the spot.

And if I don't have to set up all the models I summon then it opens up a lot of weird doors that i don't want to deal with lol. 

 

Oh for sure, we need a whole FAQ just to clarify the woods rules. For tournaments it's best to talk with the organizer and see how they will rule this mess.

Just to explain my reasoning, you have to setup 3 models but the models can fail to be setup (for lack of space). The core rules say that if a faction terrain can't fit, it isn't placed. So you have to setup 3 models, but if they are individual models they can fail to be setup individually. It shouldn't cause the spell/ability to fail if one of them can't be placed, as you are still trying to summon 3 woods but one just isn't placed on the board.

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Yeah they need another FAQ, unless we are to assume they thought of all this in our FAQ. Assuming they considered everything in our FAQ, we have the 3" restriction for initial setup, then we follow the rules on the spell lore and the TLA for the placement of each of their woods. RAW we always have to setup all three pieces when creating a new wyldwood, however we are free to either create 3 small or one huge. We can no longer setup a 2-piece wood. 

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On 7/22/2021 at 11:50 AM, Landohammer said:

No wonder he did well, his list is 2440pts lol. Is that supposed to be 1x3 Sword Hunters maybe?

oops i probably heard that wrong.

On 7/26/2021 at 1:48 AM, Aeryenn said:

 Beasts of Chaos (ironically this was the toughest fight)

Tell me more.  What did have?  what made it tough?  They are universally considered below the worst,.. So went from worst to worster,..  

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3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Tell me more.  What did have?  what made it tough?  They are universally considered below the worst,.. So went from worst to worster,..  

Well I'm not familiar with Beats units but maybe you can tell from these two pictures.

What made it a most close game was probably a fair number of monsters and heroes in my friends ranks. Additional actions for heores and monsters really make a difference. He had like two cygors, a jabber-something, and another monster. He was able to score additional points by performing battle tactics with monsters (easy while having four in his army). That also make my Sylvaneth playable. He also was always second and had additional command point. At the beginning of fifth round we were really close in points. It was something like 15:14 in my favour. I managed to score my last battletactic (which was to get two units in enemy territory) and ran away with my treelord and tree-revs far away by teleporting through the woods and warscroll skill to the other side of the map. The only battle tactic he was able to perform in the last round was to kill my battleline. He made a move with his cygor to get him just in range of his missile attack. It probably would kill a unit of 5 tree-revenants. He missed. Just like that. If not, it would have been a draw if I remember correctly. Good game. Alarielle shined in that game, while durthu did nothing and died by comined attack of jabber and his bull hero. Monsters really matter in scoring battle tactics.

1627499946441.jpg

1627499924244.jpg

Edited by Aeryenn
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On 7/27/2021 at 2:06 AM, Sleepa said:

Yeah they need another FAQ, unless we are to assume they thought of all this in our FAQ. Assuming they considered everything in our FAQ, we have the 3" restriction for initial setup, then we follow the rules on the spell lore and the TLA for the placement of each of their woods. RAW we always have to setup all three pieces when creating a new wyldwood, however we are free to either create 3 small or one huge. We can no longer setup a 2-piece wood. 

I've read some compelling arguments in here that you can place 1 or 2 seperate pieces. A 2 piece single forest seems out indeed.

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Anyone here got the warsong revenant assemble instructions and would be kind enought to share them with me? I got mine seconded handed new on sprue, but it arrived without the instructions... I heard he is a little difficult to assemble in some parts and didn't want to mess it up.

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6 hours ago, Lavieth said:

Have Spite-Rev's had their time in the sun? They don't seem to fulfill any purpose on the army roster now with the 3.0 changes. 

Lots of rendless and 1d attacks vs units that ignore rend or have a 1D damage cap? I think their damage ouput can be quite nasty... but obviously less so against 3+/4+ save units :D and after that they are dead.

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15 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Lots of rendless and 1d attacks vs units that ignore rend or have a 1D damage cap? I think their damage ouput can be quite nasty... but obviously less so against 3+/4+ save units :D and after that they are dead.

Would they still be considered a candidate to reinforce then? It seems to really benefit from all of their attacks that they would want to be in units larger than the 5 base.  

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