AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Landohammer]

Hey guys, they revealed more of the Coalition rules in the Khorne article today.

Based on the BoC example they used, here is what we know about Coalition so far. 

-Limited to 1 in 4 units

-No point limit

-Counts against behemoth/artillery's/leader caps

-CAN take enhancements

-GAINS the faction keyword and related allegiance abilities

 

So its looking really possible that we may get Wanderers as a coalition option. I sure wouldn't mind some Sisters of the Watch teleporting around or Eternal Guard camping in a forest! Sisters of the Thorn could be a decent wizard option if they get allegiance spells. 

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Hey guys, they revealed more of the Coalition rules in the Khorne article today.

Based on the BoC example they used, here is what we know about Coalition so far. 

-Limited to 1 in 4 units

-No point limit

-Counts against behemoth/artillery's/leader caps

-CAN take enhancements

-GAINS the faction keyword and related allegiance abilities

 

So its looking really possible that we may get Wanderers as a coalition option. I sure wouldn't mind some Sisters of the Watch teleporting around or Eternal Guard camping in a forest! Sisters of the Thorn could be a decent wizard option if they get allegiance spells. 

Yooooo Wild Riders popping out of Wyldwoods booiiieeeesss!!

I've wanted to do that since I started playing, and I will be so happy if it ends up being a thing we can do.

[Hoseman]

Sounds so good. I thought it would be without the restriction of 1 in 4 but we can take some interesting units.

 Eternal guard are a nice unit with good defense for taking objectives. Sadly doesn't count as battleline

 Sisters if the watch are cool and can make the ranged unit to not use kurnoth. Only 18" but nice

 Sisters of the thorn are fast, nice support and beautiful models

 Wildwood rangers are nice but I feel with revenants are not necessary. But the monster buff is nice.

 Wild hunters are cool too but I feel better with kurnoth

I guess 3 units of revenants will be our basic battleline and dryads will come by summoning 

300p for forest dragon as allied and I feel like a child.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Hoseman

[Pennydude]

Not to burst the bubble here, but the only units from Cities of Sigmar that can be taken as allies are Dispossessed only and only if you take Ironbark. 

EDIT: Okay this is for Coalition Units. We shall see. Chance we get that with the upcoming book and maybe with Enga’La Weald

Edited June 30, 2021 by Pennydude

[ppetford]

Looking at the AoS app, the 'Wanderers' faction doesn't seem to be what it once was. Only has a few heroes and gladeguard in there. All the other units are now in Cities of Sigmar.

A coalition with Wanderers was they are now wouldn't bring us very much. So maybe we will get access to more of the Cities units, if any at all?

 

[Abstract_duck]

I'd want to see the coalitions possibilities before being too happy about the concept in regards to sylvaneth (I like the transfer of allegiance keyword in general). Generally, you pay quite a steep price for the sylvaneth teleport ability in the effectivety of sylvaneth warscrolls point wise. I can imagine GW limiting our allies because they might simply be too effective with our allegiance ability. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Abstract_duck

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

3 hours ago, Abstract_duck said:

I'd want to see the coalitions possibilities before being too happy about the concept in regards to sylvaneth (I like the transfer of allegiance keyword in general). Generally, you pay quite a steep price for the sylvaneth teleport ability in the effectivety of sylvaneth warscrolls point wise. I can imagine GW limiting our allies because they might simply be too effective with our allegiance ability. 

Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. It's going to be rad if we can get Wanderers for Coalition options, but that's "IF."

Does it make sense for us to get Wanderers as a coalition option? Yes. Is it likely to happen? sure. Is it guaranteed. No way, and I don't want to get my hopes up too much.

Edited July 1, 2021 by acr0ssth3p0nd

[Landohammer]

FAQs are out. We did not get Coalition with Wanderers. 😭 So looks like they are just gone as fieldable options. So we can ally with dwarfs, deepkin, and stormcast but not wanderers. Makes no sense.

Other changes

Kurnoth lost reroll saves in favor of +1 save. Thats a hard nerf since it no longer stacks with All Out Defense.

Arch Rev lost reroll save rolls of 1 in favor of +1 save for shield use. Thats solid.

They tweaked/clarified the awakened wyldwood. It now definitely drops in your own territory. It can be dropped as multiple pieces but only gains wyldwood traits if its a single model of 3 pieces.

Gladewyrm no longer requires units to be wholly within for the heal to go off. So thats cool. Not sure its worth its new cost though. 

Did I miss anything? 

[Arzalyn]

7 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

FAQs are out. We did not get Coalition with Wanderers. 😭 So looks like they are just gone as fieldable options. So we can ally with dwarfs, deepkin, and stormcast but not wanderers. Makes no sense.

Other changes

Kurnoth lost reroll saves in favor of +1 save. Thats a hard nerf since it no longer stacks with All Out Defense.

Arch Rev lost reroll save rolls of 1 in favor of +1 save for shield use. Thats solid.

They tweaked/clarified the awakened wyldwood. It now definitely drops in your own territory. It can be dropped as multiple pieces but only gains wyldwood traits if its a single model of 3 pieces.

Gladewyrm no longer requires units to be wholly within for the heal to go off. So thats cool. Not sure its worth its new cost though. 

Did I miss anything? 

We lost Navigate Realmroots as a allegiance ability, now it is tied to the woods warscroll (which is really bad as anything that destroy the terrain also stop our teleport...).

Treelord Ancient now gives +1 save to all sylvaneth wholly within 12" of him (good to give bonuses to multiple units, but a little bad if you consider the changes to the kurnoth and arch).

One question about the woods warscroll, it is just the starting trees that changed right?

[Legatus Seneca]

- Allegiance Ability is gone: Allegiance Abilities, Battle Traits, Navigate Realmroots Delete this battle trait (it is replaced with the rule on the Awakened Wyldwood warscroll in this document). Not good as monsters can destroy terrain, leaving our Dryads to slog it on foot

- Navigate Realmroots can be used to get out of combat: …can walk the spirit paths instead of making a normal move or retreating. 

 

[Landohammer]

 

1 minute ago, Arzalyn said:

We lost Navigate Realmroots as a allegiance ability, now it is tied to the woods warscroll (which is really bad as anything that destroy the terrain also stop our teleport...).

Treelord Ancient now gives +1 save to all sylvaneth wholly within 12" of him (good to give bonuses to multiple units, but a little bad if you consider the changes to the kurnoth and arch).

One question about the woods warscroll, it is just the starting trees that changed right?

Yea if Treelord ancient was useless enough already, now he is extra useless lol..

Good catch on the wyldwood warscroll. So yea we are very much susceptible to monsters killing our forest now 

Overall this was pretty hard on us.

[Arzalyn]

14 minutes ago, Legatus Seneca said:

Navigate Realmroots can be used to get out of combat: …can walk the spirit paths instead of making a normal move or retreating. 

That is something I guess?

Honestly I simple don't understand why they had to change the woods warscroll again. The changes they released on Kragnos where really good and a month latter we go back to our bad warscroll... Why change it in the first place???

[Emissary]

Also, the Spiteswarm HIve gives +1 to save rather than rerolls of 1 now. 

One thing about the Treelord Ancient and the Kurnoths is that his command ability will effectively make them immune to -1 rend.  They can get up to +4 armor save fairly easily (themselves, ancient, hive, mystic shield).  That makes them immune up to -3.  

[Aeryenn]

21 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

That is something I guess?

Honestly I simple don't understand why they had to change the woods warscroll again. The changes they released on Kragnos where really good and a month latter we go back to our bad warscroll... Why change it in the first place???

GW Quality

[Aeryenn]

Sylvaneth received a nerf because it was too powerful in the meta. Some even say we beat Beasts of Chaos. Well deserved.

[Emissary]

Also, in the Core FAQ, it states that aura command abilities are issued and received by the unit that uses it.  Plus units that receive it cannot get other command abilities that phase.  

For example, a unit could not receive Alarielle's Ghyran's Wrath and the All out Defense command in the same command phase.

[Landohammer]

1 minute ago, Emissary said:

Also, in the Core FAQ, it states that aura command abilities are issued and received by the unit that uses it.  Plus units that receive it cannot get other command abilities that phase.  

For example, a unit could not receive Alarielle's Ghyran's Wrath and the All out Defense command in the same command phase.

Yea this is how we have been playing it in our early 3rd games. I don't see any situation where Ghyran's wrath would be used. I pretty much always keep All out attack up on Alarielle because each attach is critical. And I would pretty much always rather give a block of Kurnoth  +1 to hit than reroll 1's to wound. Especially with all the -1 to hit out there. 

[Pennydude]

So, with the new woods changes, our Treelord variants can still teleport thru the woods since that's on their warscroll and independent of whether our Awakened Wyldwood is smashed or not.  Bonus: they only have to be within 6" to teleport and not wholly within 6".

Remember, now that we can place 3 individual trees with one Verdant Blessing, Silent Communion, etc, that means the opponent won't be able to keep up destroying everything since Smash To Rubble is only once per turn.

 

EDIT: GHB page 11 still restricts faction terrain placement to be 3" from objectives and other terrain.  That means putting individual trees down may suck.  Ignore my below text.

From what I can tell now, the only restrictions on woods placement after the one before the game starts is only from the ability that placed it with the exception of being more than 3" from other woods.  This means we can place single trees within 1" of objectives, models, and non-woods terrain features unless I'm completely missing something from the Core Rules or GHB.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Pennydude
Got a rules question incorrect and am fixing

[Pennydude]

2 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Yea this is how we have been playing it in our early 3rd games. I don't see any situation where Ghyran's wrath would be used. I pretty much always keep All out attack up on Alarielle because each attach is critical. And I would pretty much always rather give a block of Kurnoth  +1 to hit than reroll 1's to wound. Especially with all the -1 to hit out there. 

I can see Ghyran's Wrath being used when Alarielle is not in combat since it can beacon out from Kurnoths.  Since Alarielle is the only one receiving the CA, the Kurnoths can benefit from a targeted CA still.

[Emissary]

4 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

I can see Ghyran's Wrath being used when Alarielle is not in combat since it can beacon out from Kurnoths.  Since Alarielle is the only one receiving the CA, the Kurnoths can benefit from a targeted CA still.

That's not the way aura command abilities work.  

From the Core FAQ:

"Q: Some commands are received by all units within a certain range of the model issuing the command. Can such an order be received by a unit that has already received a command in the same phase? A: No."

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

23 hours ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. It's going to be rad if we can get Wanderers for Coalition options, but that's "IF."

Does it make sense for us to get Wanderers as a coalition option? Yes. Is it likely to happen? sure. Is it guaranteed. No way, and I don't want to get my hopes up too much.

Ayyyyy the disappointment must flowwww

[Arzalyn]

1 minute ago, Pennydude said:

So, with the new woods changes, our Treelord variants can still teleport thru the woods since that's on their warscroll and independent of whether our Awakened Wyldwood is smashed or not.  Bonus: they only have to be within 6" to teleport and not wholly within 6".

Remember, now that we can place 3 individual trees with one Verdant Blessing, Silent Communion, etc, that means the opponent won't be able to keep up destroying everything since Smash To Rubble is only once per turn.

From what I can tell now, the only restrictions on woods placement after the one before the game starts is only from the ability that placed it with the exception of being more than 3" from other woods.  This means we can place single trees within 1" of objectives, models, and non-woods terrain features unless I'm completely missing something from the Core Rules or GHB.

After re-reading it many times I finally got that we can still place a single wood, but we place 3 of them rather than 1. This quiet a buff for us, as we need to get less spells off to place the woods we need. If we place 3 single woods on our territory and get a single cast of verdant blessing we can have 6 teleport hubs! This also make Ancient/acorn become much more interesting!. That would explain why they nerfed the damage part again.

[Pennydude]

3 minutes ago, Emissary said:

That's not the way aura command abilities work.  

From the Core FAQ:

"Q: Some commands are received by all units within a certain range of the model issuing the command. Can such an order be received by a unit that has already received a command in the same phase? A: No."

That contradicts the examples used right below.  See the Mannfred example.  Mannfred issues and receives the command in the hero phase and all others affected don't count as receiving, even in the same phase.

[Aeryenn]

But maybe we get it wrong. If we can set up three separate Wyldwoods at the beginning all over our territory isn't this actually a buff?  Isn't this like having three terrains instead of one with just one action? That gives a great teleporting capabilities.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Aeryenn

[Tizianolol]

Guys what they changed about awakened wildwood? We can still put one single tree down or we have to put all 3 Trees?