AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Ravenrei]

5 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

Gnarlroot

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Gnarlroot

Warlord
Warsong Revenant (275)
- General
- Command Trait: Nurtured by Magic
- Artefact: Chalice of Nectar
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Drycha Hamadreth (330)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Arcane Tome
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth

Arch-Revenant (105)
20 x Dryads (190)

20 x Dryads (190)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 1995/ 2000
Wounds: 104

This one is more a for fun list, I call it "You are a wizard Durthu!". It's buff Durthu with the allegiance rerolls and give him more survivability with the trait + regrowth, plus he can try to cast some forest if he needs!. The warsong do the heavy lifting getting the cogs to give even more spells for the wizards. I could see myself trading one of the revenants for the Gladewyrm/Skullroot if I find myself with too much casting and too little spells.

 

I like the idea of Arcane Tome on Durthu in Gnarlroot very much, it is a nice touch. Arcane Tome is a Artifact right (and not a command trait)?

Edited June 20, 2021 by Ravenrei

[Kramig]

Aren't you afraid of possibility opponent monsters destroy our woods? 

[Thrst77]

13 minutes ago, Kramig said:

Aren't you afraid of possibility opponent monsters destroy our woods? 

Not really. We are in the best position to combat this since we can actively summon more trees while other factions cannot.

[Ravenrei]

12 minutes ago, Kramig said:

Aren't you afraid of possibility opponent monsters destroy our woods? 

I believe that the consensus is, that once our woods are destroyed, only the rules on the warscroll are lost (this means the line of sight blocking and mortal wounds in the change phase). However our faction abilities will still work (teleporting, bonuses to units that are near the woods) as the destroyed terrain has still the keyword Awakened Wyldwood. So it is not that bad for us. 

 

[Lanoss]

Yeah we’ll just lose LoS blocking and mortals in the charge phase  not so bad considering 

[Kramig]

Oh good! I was too pessimistic ^^"

[Pennydude]

3 hours ago, Ravenrei said:

I like the idea of Arcane Tome on Durthu in Gnarlroot very much, it is a nice touch. Arcane Tome is a Artifact right (and not a command trait)?

Yep! It’s one of the core artefacts but if you in Gnarlroot, you need to take a battalion that gives you an enhancement.

[Tizianolol]

10 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

So reading the discussion around here for the last days gave me some lists ideas, trying to make one for each of the glades (except Ironbark as I still find it's abilities a little weak).  No Alarielle list yet, I will try to brainstorm some lists for her in the following days.

Oakenbrown

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Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Oakenbrow
 

Warlord
Treelord Ancient (295)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (95)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Arch-Revenant (105)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Regal Old-growth
- Artefact: Dawnflask
20 x Dryads (190)
20 x Dryads (190)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords


Alpha-Beast Pack
Treelord (190)
Treelord (190)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Gladewyrm (60)
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 118

So lets start with the 4 "Treelords" list, finally Oakenbrown maybe viable! Our best glade if we want a list full of monsters to use all the new benefits monsters get on this edition. The general glade effect help us keep the treelords in a better combat profile and combined with the Alpha-beast battalion my plan was to let they get much closer to the enemy deploy and start annoying them with stomp + monstrous actions or even to get an objective early. The Arch revenant is there to give one of the Dryads block a extra attack with her command ability, which in paper looks quiet nice if all of them are able to get in combat.

Heartwood

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Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Heartwood

Warlord
Warsong Revenant (275)
- Artefact: Horn of Consort
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Arch-Revenant (105)
- General
- Command Trait: Legacy of Valour
- Artefact: Crown of Fell Bowers
30 x Dryads (285)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatbows

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 127

This one is the one I'm most insecure about. The Kurnoth points increase makes difficult to get more than 4 units in a list without sacrificing our heroes support and battleline bodies. I went with a double wraith mostly to try to get the most use of the cogs (there isn't much options for us in the 150 range other than hero/dryads/revenants + endless spell) and go with Crown artifact on the arch. One could change the Dryads and one wraith for 5 revenants and one more kurnoth unit (this would require changing the battle regiment battalion too). I do wonder if a second Arch would be too much, but it could be a option. The Warsong got the horn mostly to buff the Bow hunters in the back of the field.

Winterleaf

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Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Winterleaf

Warlord
Warsong Revenant (275)
Branchwraith (95)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Staff
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Spirit of Durthu (340)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Arch-Revenant (105)

- General
- Command Trait: My Heart is Ice

- Artefact: The Frozen Kernel
20 x Dryads (190)
20 x Dryads (190)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Wounds: 117

The focus here is try to get the most of the extra hit, be it with the volume of attack (dryads + arch rev command) or the quality of them (Durthu sword, kurnoth swords). At first I had Drycha in place of Durthu, but if I'm not mistaken with the new rules about triggered effects we wuld have to choose betwen extra attack or mortals on rolls of 6. Still, I could see myself getting her back in to get more reach.

Dreadwood

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Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Dreadwood

Warlord
Arch-Revenant (105)
Drycha Hamadreth (330)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (95)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)

Battle Regiment
Treelord Ancient (295)
- General
- Command Trait: Paragon of Terror
- Artefact: Jewel of Withering
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (430)
- Scythes

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Vengeful Skullroot (40)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Wounds: 102

This one is mostly to try to give the spites a home. 5 blocks can go with most of the other units (that didn't teleport) and spread their battleshock debuff around. Drycha and the Skullroot contribute with the bravery attack theme and go nicely with the spites. The Ancient get both the trait and the artifact to make him more durable, which could help him be a littl more active on the front line supporting the spites/kurnoth with his stomp/verdurous harmony.

Harvestboon

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Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Harvestboon

Warlord
Arch-Revenant (105)
- Artefact: Crown of Fell Bowers
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Warsong Revenant (275)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)


Battle Regiment

Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Seek New Fruit
- Artefact: The Silent Sickle
30 x Dryads (285)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (430)
- Scythes

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 119

Welcome to the Durthu show! Not a lot of changes around here, Harvest boon trait and artifact go really well with Durthu and with the new Ghur command ability he should be pretty strong! I quietly like the Cogs here as both as away to simulate the spiritsong + throne combo on the Wraith without using a artifact slot and as a way to use the Hive other mode and still get a charge bonus (which Harvestboon likes).

Gnarlroot

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Gnarlroot

Warlord
Warsong Revenant (275)
- General
- Command Trait: Nurtured by Magic
- Artefact: Chalice of Nectar
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Drycha Hamadreth (330)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Arcane Tome
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth

Arch-Revenant (105)
20 x Dryads (190)

20 x Dryads (190)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 1995/ 2000
Wounds: 104

This one is more a for fun list, I call it "You are a wizard Durthu!". It's buff Durthu with the allegiance rerolls and give him more survivability with the trait + regrowth, plus he can try to cast some forest if he needs!. The warsong do the heavy lifting getting the cogs to give even more spells for the wizards. I could see myself trading one of the revenants for the Gladewyrm/Skullroot if I find myself with too much casting and too little spells.

 

Most of those list try to be "thematic", trying to make the most use of the abilities the glades give us. From this exercise I perceived some things:

- I really doubt we will see more than 12 kurnoth in the lists in the future. With the points increase they got quiet expensive an is hard to put lots of them + support heroes +  battlelines in the same list.

- I didn't include the Treelord as much as I hope, mostly because we generally have at least one monster in our lists thanks to Drycha/Durthu/Ancient. If having more than one monster become necessary, I would probably change one of the Kurnoth units in most list with one of them.

- Getting free of the battalions restrictions really helps in the list building process. Needing 3 battlelines and 2 heroes with less than 10 wounds for the extra artifact rarely fells like a restriction compared to the ones we had before.

If anyone like any of them and as any suggestion or want to try they in a game I would love some feedback!

Gnarloot list is so good! How you get 2 command trait and how u got 2 generals?:)

[Ravenrei]

8 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Gnarloot list is so good! How you get 2 command trait and how u got 2 generals?:)

It is a typo in the list, Arcane Tome is one of the new universal artifacts of power (and you can get an additional artifact enhancement with the warlord core battalion). Sadly it is not possible to have multiple command traits, as they are limited to 1 per army in the core rules (rule 27.3.2).

[Tizianolol]

Ye, its so hard write a list now:)

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Gnarloot list is so good! How you get 2 command trait and how u got 2 generals?:)

By changing the list at the last moment and forgetting to change it. It's in the core rules!

[Ratatatata]

It's been years since I wrote in this thread, but I´ve been playing Sylvaneth on and off since AoS launched. Been dabbling in other armies as well but with the release of 3rd edition I've decided that it´s time to focus on Sylvaneth again. With the rumors and hints (WhC-articles etc) I´ve felt that this edition might see Sylvaneht stronger again.

I must say, so far I love how the new rules work with our army. I think this edition will be good for us, at least until (if?) a new book drops. Doesn't mean Sylvaneth will be stomping through tournaments and winning each and every game; it is still an army that requires both some skills and a lot of luck. But the playing field have been leveled. And even more important, our army is really fun with the new rules!

This weekend I've hade a few (5) games with Sylvaneth using the new rules, scenarios, points etc. I play in a rather "hard" meta/setting, with good players who regularly win tournaments and participate in the ETC- team. Played BoC, Khorne, Seraphon, DoK and LRL. Some wins and some losses but the games was more aligned to trying the new rules than winning at all costs. 

Sylvaneth are hands down stronger under the 3rd ed rules and with the new points. No question about it. The grand strategies and secondary missions (battle...something) are really important to score a major win and a lot of those works really well with our warscrolls and composition of lists. Just as an example, the grand strategy where you gain 3 WP by surviving with a battle line unit has "Tree revenants" written all over it. I can´t see somebody playing Sylvaneth not securing that one each and every game. 

While our warscrolls have gone up in points, so have the other armies. However, the synergies and playstyle of our army actually gives us a lot of good tools to make the best of those points. Also, a lot of the new rules either straight out benefit us (monster reactions, for example); others hamper other armies harder then they do ours. Coherency was never an issue for me, but really screws some other armies. Same thing with new command rules (only able to use one command on one unit doesn't impact us very much).

I tried Alarielle and her new scroll and she is really good now. The healing alone makes her shine, as does her mobility and shooting attack. She certainly benefits from the monster action- table as well. Drycha was a pure beast, just wow. Dryads are excellent and are actually cheaper now. Tree revs are so good it feels like cheating. 

I played a few games with 2x6 scythe hunters and yeah, they are as good as ever. Using the Rally command ability on a unit of hunters felt bonkers. 

Also really like the warsong revenant. Had a lot of flexibility and actually survives pretty good while in terrain. 

Don´t know if this rambling post will be of any help really Just wanted to post something a bit more positive then what I´ve been reading for the last few pages.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Ratatatata

[martinwolf]

@Ratatatata That sounds really good, thank you for the positive vibes! I’d love to see some of the subfactions and lists you ran in your games. Cheers!

[Havelocke]

Love the insights, @Ratatatata! Thanks for sharing. I'm also curious to know which glade(s) you ran for your games.

[Green Tea]

How are tree revs to be used? Are they good? I see they were mentioned in @Ratatatatas post, what role do they serve?

[Pennydude]

5 hours ago, Ratatatata said:

I played a few games with 2x6 scythe hunters and yeah, they are as good as ever. Using the Rally command ability on a unit of hunters felt bonkers. 

I may or may not be building my second unit of 6 Scythes now.  it does seem like a 2x6 of those would be excellent now with the smaller board. Not only do we have Rally, but the Warsong Revenant can easily bring another back with its spellcasting.

[Havelocke]

35 minutes ago, Green Tea said:

How are tree revs to be used? Are they good? I see they were mentioned in @Ratatatatas post, what role do they serve?

They can teleport anywhere on the board more than 9" from the enemy. Every turn. There are very few units in the game with that kind of mobility. This makes them very useful for jumping onto objectives that would otherwise be hard to reach, and it also forces the opponent to play around that ability be screening their backfield and making sure their home objective is well defended.

While they aren't super great in combat, their re-roll abilities in the charge and combat phases make their limited output rather reliable. If they're given a good target of opportunity, such as a poorly defended support hero, they're pretty good at taking advantage of that.

Finally, their 6" pile in move gives some tactical flexibility that can be exploited. This is limited by the new coherency rules, but pile in moves also got more flexible. I haven't personally assessed yet exactly how valuable this will be in the new edition, but it's certainly worth considering.

[Ashes]

@Ratatatata

thanks for your insights. You mentioned you also played against DoK. They are my main opponent so I wonder how did it go for you vs DoK? Their new book and especially Morathi feel really strong to me.

thanks. 

[Xil]

Can we have our own subforum now? Would be nice to have one like Daughters of Khaine. Wonder why this is not a thing for everyone

[Wachamba]

5 hours ago, Xil said:

Can we have our own subforum now? Would be nice to have one like Daughters of Khaine. Wonder why this is not a thing for everyone

Only after the release of the new battle tome

[Mirage8112]

On 6/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, Havelocke said:

Finally, their 6" pile in move gives some tactical flexibility that can be exploited. This is limited by the new coherency rules, but pile in moves also got more flexible. I haven't personally assessed yet exactly how valuable this will be in the new edition, but it's certainly worth considering.

I was thinking about this the other day. This has a bunch of uses. 

The new pile-in rules really open up a lot of tactical play. Combo charge a unit of T-revs with a unit of hunters. Active the T-revs first, and pile in 6" around the back (or side) of the unit to set up a screen for the counter-charge. Then your opponent has to decide if he wastes attacks taking out the T-revs and risks having the hunters at full strength , or chooses to attack the hunters and leaves the T-revs there blocking the charge the next turn. 

You can charge, and then pile-in to tag a shooting unit locking it in combat. This will either force them to retreat (preventing them from shooting next turn) or waste shots on T-revs. A 6" pile in should even be enough to skirt around a small screen and tag units behind. A unit of 10 charging the side of screen should be able to pile in a round the side and take out a supporting character (of 5 wounds with a 4+ save) AND possibly block the counter charge. 

They're cheap, fast, inbuilt rr charges. Units of 10 can absolutely kill support heroes and units of 15 might be enough to finish off monsters that have taken a bracket or two. 

I really think these will be a key part of our toolkit in 3.0

[Popisdead]

On 6/17/2021 at 4:08 PM, Havelocke said:

Drycha Hamadreth - 330 (+30)
Big Winner. Drycha loves the new rules. 

Branchwraith - 95 (+15)
Big Loser. 

Dryads - 95 (-5)
Big Winner. 

Spite Revenants - 70 (+10)
Big Loser. 

Tree Revenants - 80 (+0)
Big Winner. 

Kurnoth Hunters with Swords - 225 (+35)
Small Loser. 

Kurnoth Hunters with Bows - 225 (+35)
Big Loser. 

Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes - 215 (+25)
It's a wash. 

The Branchwraith summonig Dryads in (if you are getting a reliable cast) is more useful now.  I would say her stock improved.  I do however agree with Spite Revs being a big loser.  No matter how hard people tried to make them work at book release we eventually saw 15 and a Battalion as their use,.. which is gone.  

I think any of the Hunters got better.  Bows shoot throw Wildwoods, will see smaller units, will see more heroes on monsters or monsters in general.  Seeing more small units made Swords viable now and operate well enough on their own, and Scythes remain great and a good choice for a reinforcement.  

I agree with Trevs.  They remain a great utility choice and improved as they don't compete against Spite Revs any longer.  

I do also quite like Dryads which is nice when one has 70 painted...

Regarding Drycha I followed Simon Hall's gameplay the past weekend in CoS using Drycha.  (top Aussie player and often on the Honest Wargamer) He apparently got called out by playtesters as cheating for casting flaming on Drycha making me think uniques cannot gain access to the spell.  

On 6/17/2021 at 6:06 PM, Frowny said:

Branchwraith may not be as much of an autoinclude now. 

TBH that's probably a better way of phrasing it.  

On 6/18/2021 at 8:41 AM, Landohammer said:

 

There is no reason to ever take spites anymore unless you just don't have the extra 10pts for Tree Revs. 

Lacking rend is perhaps the biggest issue ignoring the other reasons they lose out.  "oh you just made all your (buffed) saves and I have no armour,. fun times."

On 6/18/2021 at 9:12 AM, a74xhx said:

Also, Wanderers missing from Allies list.

Stormcast, Deepkin and the Ironbark stuff only now.

Oof,.. but,.. overtime expect Kurnothi to replace them.  Buy Ungors while they are cheap to convert yours over when Kurnothi drops ":P

 

On 6/18/2021 at 9:46 AM, Hoseman said:

Seriously!!!!!???? This is so bad for me... I love mixing sometimes some eternal guard or shadow warriors for that oldschool Silvan elfs vibe... so bad...

You can still play CoS.  

On 6/19/2021 at 8:34 PM, Pennydude said:

Is it just me or is the Emerald Lifeswarm really good for us? It’s finding a spot in about every single list of mine.

I think it's very good and why has no one mentioned soulsnare shackles yet?  I painted mine up two days ago after reading the rules (granted I've been playing CoS instead of Sylvaneth  previously).  

[Havelocke]

28 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Regarding Drycha I followed Simon Hall's gameplay the past weekend in CoS using Drycha.  (top Aussie player and often on the Honest Wargamer) He apparently got called out by playtesters as cheating for casting flaming on Drycha making me think uniques cannot gain access to the spell.

It's worth noting that these playtesters were working without an FAQ's, just the same as we are. Looking at his replies, it sound like he made the same argument that's been made here about Artefacts and Traits being the only enhancements that are 'given' and was shot down. We'll see what the eventual FAQ says!

38 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I think it's very good and why has no one mentioned soulsnare shackles yet?  I painted mine up two days ago after reading the rules (granted I've been playing CoS instead of Sylvaneth  previously).  

They're awesome! I've got a good feeling that endless spells are gonna be used a lot in 3e.

The spiteswarm hive is still amazing, and I really want to try out the Gladewyrm with the new predatory rules. On top of that, Soulsnare shackles look good, Chronomantic Cogs are always good, and Umbral Spellportal has potential for a Warsong bomb. Finally, the Skullroot and Horrorghast are strong considerations if you want to try to do a bravery debuff thing. Heck, with the changes to wyldwoods, the Skullroot might just be good on its own.

[Havelocke]

20 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

I really think these will be a key part of our toolkit in 3.0

Another indirect buff to Tree Revenants that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that they can use command abilities after teleporting more often, since the Scion can issue commands now. This was often not the case in the last edition, when they had to jump far away from heroes.

[Mirage8112]

10 hours ago, Havelocke said:

Another indirect buff to Tree Revenants that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that they can use command abilities after teleporting more often, since the Scion can issue commands now. This was often not the case in the last edition, when they had to jump far away from heroes.

I’ve been looking at the math regarding command abilities on T-revs and Hunters, particularly how “All-out-attack” competes with the Arch-Revenant “extra attack” CA, since they are both used in the same phase. 

Turns out, the math breaks down to show that the Arch-Rev’s extra attack CA is better in all situations. On T-revs it gives roughly twice as much of a damage buff as all out attack (On 5 T-revs you have a 4 damage base before saves, all out attack does 5 damage before saves, and the extra attack does 6.)

In fact, in the case of Hunters the damage by the Extra Attack CA is amplified by his innate giving hunter RR 1’s to hit (which is in itself a huge buff). Hunters do benefit from All-out-attack (giving 6 scythe hunters an extra ~4 points of damage before saves). But the buff from the extra attack CA (and the rr 1’s aura) gives 6 scythe hunters a whopping extra 10 points of damage (16 base ~26 buffed).

This makes me think that the Arch-rev still very much has a place in our lists (especially if you’re taking lots of hunters), because while All-out-attack does give a moderate damage buff, the extra attack CA is so much better on Hunters.

The cool thing is that all-out-attack is practically as good on T-revs as it is on hunters. AoA on 6 hunters yields a ~4 point damage bump, but on 10 T-revs it’s a ~3 point bump.  

I really think All-out-attack was made for T-revs (as opposed to Hunters). You get roughly the same amount of a damage bump using it on a 160pt T-rev unit as you do a 430 point Hunter unit. 

I’ll have to see how the buffs stack up with other units, but teleporting a unit of trees behind a support character and being bale to give them the +1 hot via the scion is a great use of the CA, because it leave the Hunters open to receive the +1 attack CA if you’re being aggressive, or the +1 save Ca RR failed saves if you’re being defensive.