AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

Look at Fyreslayers points. Much better army than Sylvaneth which was proven on countless tournaments. Runefather on Magmadroth 15 points increase. Durthu 40 points increase. Drycha 30 points increase. Kurnoth Hunters 35 points increase. Hearthguard Berzerkers 5 points increase. That's just sad.

Yeah, it’s terrible. What was GW thinking? It’s almost as if they feel that the complete change to way competitive lists are constructed means that some units translate better into the new edition than others, so the points changes shouldn’t be equal across every faction. It’s madness!

[Aeryenn]

1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

Yeah, it’s terrible. What was GW thinking? It’s almost as if they feel that the complete change to way competitive lists are constructed means that some units translate better into the new edition than others, so the points changes shouldn’t be equal across every faction. It’s madness!

Yup. Laugh. Take pleasure in another edition where Sylvaneth is at the bottom.

We already know all the rules. All the points. Some of us, like me, play AoS from the very first day it was released. But yeah, it's so HARD to compare units across factions, right? That would like almost force you to use your brain! Madness!

[Grimbok]

The points are way off, I think they used some kind of generic formula. I think kurnoths are paying (too much) for counting as two models, big monsters cost more because of monster actions. 

Problem is just Sylvaneth started way underpowered before the adjustment. My list look fine, until I see how few models and wounds there actually is...the army just crumbles too fast. 

 

My Slaves to Darkness are fine. Less than 100 point total in my list are gone (just dropping a pacj of furies, no big deal). 

 

Stormcast, I will just  wait for a new armybook coming soon. 

 

Grimbok

[Havelocke]

16 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Again, if range isn't a specifically defined game term, then it means what it says: "distance to or from something". In such case it would likely refer to both, since both require measuring a specific distance to or from something. Separating "issuing range" from "range of effect" is not something the rules do, since you've already pointed out nowhere in the core rules do they suggest "range" is some sort of keyword that has specific distinctions.

Well said. You've convinced me.

I still think that the ability should be FAQ'd for clarity, but I can see now that your interpretation of the rule is internally consistent. Thanks for taking the time to debate it with me!

Edited June 19, 2021 by Havelocke

[Havelocke]

54 minutes ago, Grimbok said:

The points are way off, I think they used some kind of generic formula. I think kurnoths are paying (too much) for counting as two models, big monsters cost more because of monster actions.

Seems to me that the points adjustments were a combination of formulaic increases and also targeted nerfs/buffs, which is why we saw such a big increase for Kurnoth Hunters. They were likely paying 5-10 points for their new model count, and also took a targeted nerf of 20-30 points, in my view.

Not that I'm saying Kurnoth Hunters were overpowered. They weren't, but they were at the core of virtually every competitive Sylvaneth list, so I'm not surprised they were targeted by GW to address the internal balance of the army. That said, I still don't have a good explanation for why the Scythe Kurnoths got off easier than the other options.

[Trevelyan]

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

Yup. Laugh. Take pleasure in another edition where Sylvaneth is at the bottom.

You’re right. it’s always entirely possible to judge what a new edition will bring right at the outset before it has even been released. No faction ever changes it’s performance as new battletomes are released. The points established in the first Generals Handbook of the new edition always persist until the next edition.
 

Woe is us, our chosen faction is destined to suck forever, dead on arrival into AoS 3E. All that remains is to set up a curb side stall to sell our salty tears as refreshments to people playing stronger factions in tournaments. Maybe if we offer them a discount they’ll go easy on us at the table? 
 

Or maybe, just maybe, we could save the wailing and gnashing of teeth until things at least have time to settle, and wait until we’re past the inevitable first round of FAQs and errata, before we declare that the sky is falling? 

[overtninja]

31 minutes ago, Havelocke said:

Seems to me that the points adjustments were a combination of formulaic increases and also targeted nerfs/buffs, which is why we saw such a big increase for Kurnoth Hunters. They were likely paying 5-10 points for their new model count, and also took a targeted nerf of 20-30 points, in my view.

Not that I'm saying Kurnoth Hunters were overpowered. They weren't, but they were at the core of virtually every competitive Sylvaneth list, so I'm not surprised they were targeted by GW to address the internal balance of the army. That said, I still don't have a good explanation for why the Scythe Kurnoths got off easier than the other options.

As I asked earlier in the thread, it seems that groups of Kurnoth broadcast the TLA's command ability (amongst others), which means if you've got groups of 3s around the board, that you could concievably give most, if not your whole army re-roll 1s on saves, for a single command point. Does any other faction have that capacity? Seems pretty strong to me. That might be part of the reason there's a premium on them now, along with the fact that they can reroll saves naturally, swords have MW generation, and ranged attacks are more expensive overall.

Scythe Kurnoth being cheaper is a bit of a mystery, but it's probably because rend isn't as valued as MW generation, nor is random damage, and also because GW knows that people run them in groups of 6 thanks to their reach.

Edited June 19, 2021 by overtninja

[Aeryenn]

30 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

You’re right. it’s always entirely possible to judge what a new edition will bring right at the outset before it has even been released. No faction ever changes it’s performance as new battletomes are released. The points established in the first Generals Handbook of the new edition always persist until the next edition.
 

Woe is us, our chosen faction is destined to suck forever, dead on arrival into AoS 3E. All that remains is to set up a curb side stall to sell our salty tears as refreshments to people playing stronger factions in tournaments. Maybe if we offer them a discount they’ll go easy on us at the table? 
 

Or maybe, just maybe, we could save the wailing and gnashing of teeth until things at least have time to settle, and wait until we’re past the inevitable first round of FAQs and errata, before we declare that the sky is falling? 

We evaluate what we get. Can't judge on things that may or may not happen. I don't expect much from errata for Sylvaneth. Everything is clear here. I run also 2k points of Bonereapers and there is errata needed if they will be able to use new CA (especially all out attack and all out defence since they are powerful and will nerf obr a lot if they won't be able to use them).

But some examples are just clear even for newbies. Like Sentinels +10 points where community ask for fixing them for couple of months.

Look. Some of us are really tired by hearing promises that next edition has the best rules and then see obvious mistakes. I would really like to take my Sylvaneth, which always have been my favorite army, and don't feel before my game like I'm entering an execution. They had great opportunity to make us equal by making only small point adjustments. Not Durthu +40, Kurnoths +35. If they did Durthu +15 and Kurnoths +10 then maybe, just maybe, Sylvaneth would appear in top 10 on a tournament. Guess balance is something to dream of.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Aeryenn

[Trevelyan]

30 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

We evaluate what we get. Can't judge on things that may or may not happen. I don't expect much from errata for Sylvaneth.
…

Look. Some of us are really tired by hearing promises that next edition has the best rules and then see obvious mistakes.

…

They had great opportunity to make us equal by making only small point adjustments. Not Durthu +40, Kurnoths +35. If they did Durthu +15 and Kurnoths +10 then maybe, just maybe, Sylvaneth would appear in top 10 on a tournament. Guess balance is something to dream of.

You are conflating some very different things.

You say that you don’t expect much errata and criticise the claim that the rules are better, then go back to complaining about a difference of 15-25 point on a 200+ point unit, as if that’s the difference between sunlit uplands and an eternity of darkness.

Simply put, points aren’t rules, and points most definitely do change on at least an annual basis for every faction, and more frequently if tournament results show that a faction is broken. If a tweak to the points is all you want then, assuming your assessment is correct and Kurnoths are overpriced for 3E, we absolutely will see a point drop before the edition is done - how many points changes did we see in 2E?

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, Havelocke said:

That said, I still don't have a good explanation for why the Scythe Kurnoths got off easier than the other options.

I’d assume the difference vs Sword Hunters is  a consequence of the changes to unit size (capped at 6 Hunters). 6 Hunters was the break point where people actively debated whether swords or scythes were better. Swords were pretty much universally preferred in units of 3 and scythes in 9+. Now there is no situation where scythes are definitely better, and the limited number of times you can reinforce a unit makes units of 3 Hunters, and so swords, a more likely option. 

For bows, GW seems to be really pushing the Unleash Hell command ability for ranged attacks. Add the Redeploy strategy and it looks like ranged units have plenty of scope to stay out of combat and contribute more firepower. That’s likely the source of the point premium over scythes. 

[Mirage8112]

7 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

Look at Fyreslayers points. Much better army than Sylvaneth which was proven on countless tournaments. Runefather on Magmadroth 15 points increase. Durthu 40 points increase. Drycha 30 points increase. Kurnoth Hunters 35 points increase. Hearthguard Berzerkers 5 points increase. That's just sad.

Fyreslayers have actually had a lot change in how their army composition functions with the new rules. Hearthguard berserkers can only be taken in units of 15 now, (and have to use 2 reenforcement points to do it) and they can't stack saves past 4+. They will also suffer from 32mm syndrome and the new coherency rules will make even getting 15 man squads into CC tricky.

Not everything is about points. The core rules are a massive shakeup for for list and army building. Just about every army is going to have to adjust, and everything "strong" in 2.0 is either downright unfieldable or much more expensive. 

 

1 hour ago, Havelocke said:

Not that I'm saying Kurnoth Hunters were overpowered. They weren't, but they were at the core of virtually every competitive Sylvaneth list, so I'm not surprised they were targeted by GW to address the internal balance of the army. That said, I still don't have a good explanation for why the Scythe Kurnoths got off easier than the other options.

 

1 hour ago, overtninja said:

Scythe Kurnoth being cheaper is a bit of a mystery, but it's probably because rend isn't as valued as MW generation, nor is random damage, and also because GW knows that people run them in groups of 6 thanks to their reach.

I don't have a crystal ball, but it seems like they're trying to a just the game to cut out these dumb spammy lists where everybody just takes minimum battelline units and mix/maxes the unit in the list with the most damage. Everybody's answer to everything was always "more Kurnoths". It didn't work mind you, but it didn't stop people from listening to the crowd that thinks the game is only won in the combat phase. 

Hunters are cheaper in Scythes to make them a little easier to field in 6's (which is how they've always been best). They also really benefit from the new coherency rules, while swords in 6's just... don't. 
 

9 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

Simply put, points aren’t rules

This 100%. 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Mirage8112

[overtninja]

2 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

I don't have a crystal ball, but it seems like they're trying to a just the game to cut out these dumb spammy lists where everybody just takes minimum battelline units and mix/maxes the unit in the list with the most damage. Everybody's answer to everything was always "more Kurnoths". It didn't work mind you, but it didn't stop people from listening to the crowd that thinks the game is only won in the combat phase. 

Hunters are cheaper in Scythes to make them a little easier to field in 6's (which is how they've always been best). They also really benefit from the new coherency rules, while swords in 6's just... don't. 

The funniest thing is that 3E really pushes many armies into a 'minimal core, min/max the most potent units' strategy, though with coherency and unit sizes it will mean lots of smaller units, which don't hit as hard, fighting other smaller units, which don't hit so hard, all over the table, which in turn will make the activation wars, positioning, and cunning use of phase-dependant command points really key.

If there's any faction that is positioned to do well in terms of mobility, positioning, and messing with activation timing, it's sylvaneth. Kurnoth are very good elite units, but they didn't stack up to huge blocks of other elites - but now those huge blocks aren't going to be present. Our monsters are mostly heroes too, which means we get the best of both the hero rules and the monster rules to play with - and they all enforce strikes-last on a 4+ except Drycha, who is too busy killing hero models with a swarm of bees to care, and Alarielle, who will be regrowing like crabgrass along with the rest of the army and doing all manner of other absolutely outrageous things every hero phase (if, you know, anyone can fit her into a list without it being her and some dryads).

Oh! And we can actually bring our endless spells now that battalions cost nothing, so I can actually use my snekky boy and skelly tree! Lots of folks are fretting big time but i'm excited as all get out to play this edition.

[Bvajen]

16 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

I don't have a crystal ball, but it seems like they're trying to a just the game to cut out these dumb spammy lists where everybody just takes minimum battelline units and mix/maxes the unit in the list with the most damage.
 

Slightly off topic, but I've sometimes kind of wished they'd have kept Fantasy's % system for determining troop types. Having to take 25% minimum core units in 8th was sort of a nice touch in my opinion as it made the units more relevant and prevented mass spamming of specials/rares.

As far as the points for units go, I'm not gonna lie, some of those increases definitely feel like they're going to hurt. That said, until I can I actually play some games (and see how the new edition affects my opponents' armies and strategies) I'll reserve my judgement. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Bvajen

[Green Tea]

I'm planning for the coming 750pt army size, and I'm wondering how branchwraiths' Dryad summoning works in matched play? Are they just extra units, or do you have to set aside points. Many thanks!

[Lurynsar]

So I have been fortunate to play 3 games with Sylvaneth. I will point out I am brand new to this faction with 3rd Edition. I had been slowly building them for fun, so my insight will not be in comparison to previous rules, but as a whole. I played Hedonites and Flesh-eaters in 2nd.

With that said this is the list I decided to play

 

Spoiler

Sylvaneth
Allegiance: Harvestboon

Warlord Battalion (Extra Artefact Enchantment)
Drycha
Warsong Revenant
-The Vesperal Gem (Artefact)
Arch-Revenant (General)
-Seek New Fruit (Command Trait)
-The Silent Sickle (Artefact)
3 Kurnoth Hunters (with Great Swords)

Battle Regiment
Branchwraith
20 Dryads
20 Dryads
5 Tree Revanants
5 Tree Revenants
Treelord

No Battalion
Treelord

Endless Spells
Spiteswarm Hive

1990 Points

So my opponents were a mix. I played Daughters of Khaine, Soulblight and Kharadron Overlords.

My Daughters of Khaine opponent was a mostly snake lady list, with the usual backup, and Morathi. Soulblight was Vyrkos Vampires with 40 Skeletons, 40 Deadwalkers, 20 Grave Guard, 10 Wolves and Vampires/support. The Kharadron was two medium ships, 2 gunhaulers, some Thunderers and balloon boys.

So the games were interesting for sure, and I learnt a lot. I won't lie playing as a new faction with new rules for a new edition I made some mistakes, and left myself in stupid places at times. So without further ado some of my initial good and bad thoughts.

The good
1) Dryads are really cheap for what they do (maybe because I come mostly from Slaanesh). But wow, for their cost, the buffs that exist and 2" range in melee these guys are really solid. 20 was not hard to move or use at all, and felt super good all 3 games.

2) Treelords are amazing. I know they aren't wonderful to some people, but at only 190 points with the new Monster rules; I felt they were great. They were comfortable to use and I will have to try out the Spirit soon.

3) Spiteswarm was great, and Endless Spells as a whole feel good to play. I cannot wait to test out others as they feel really solid this edition. Spiteswarm specifically was really great at it's point cost. I cannot see a list without it unless you go magicless (wtf)

4) Drycha was a beast. While the rest of the heroes were fine, and had a role, she was amazing. I cannot see her not being played a ton. She does a bit of everything and with the new Hero/Monster buffs she really shines. 330 seems like a steal for her (again maybe compared to Slaanesh here)

Now on the negatives

1) While I didn't test her in these games, how is Alarielle more points than Morathi? Morathi is amazing and really worked against me hard. I would kill to have a model at that cost that does that. Maybe I am wrong on Alarielle, but she seems lacklustre compared to Morathi.

2) Wyldwoods are stupid. While the 1-3 per is better than the 3-6, 1 seems usually useless. 2 can't actually seem to form a circle when built, and 3 is great, but hard to place after the first ones are down pregame. This could be inexperience, but they're really kinda clunky.

3) The heroes other than Drycha were just fine, and that's kinda boring. Looking at the options the Treelord Ancient looks like garbage compared to the Warsong, and the Warsong is really costly. He's solid I suppose, but costly. The others are just there. They do one thing and hope to survive. I really didn't like that GW didn't allow you to have the 40K Look Out Sir rule in AoS. It would be such an elegant solution to "weaker" characters being sniped out. A missed opportunity I feel.

4) Kurnoth Hunters are bad. Having to be either 3 man to use swords (which are way better than Scythes) or lose out on attacks, and costing 225 points per 3 was just...sad. I didn't enjoy using them. While they cut up what they charged, I just felt Dryads and the Tree Revenants were way more useful in each game.

Long story short, I am excited to play Sylvaneth through 3rd, and plan to take them to several events be it tournaments or leagues to really get a feel for the army, and to document them. So more will likely follow. But I don't think the army is as trash as some people act, and there is certainly a lot more going on in 3rd to make any sweeping statements. The army was okay, and hopefully more playtesting and different units really help me find a good place for them. Time will tell, but I encourage you to play some games with the army and see how they feel. I know they've been bottom for awhile, but I do believe 3rd is a bigger shakeup than most people expect.

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Lurynsar

[Aeryenn]

2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

 If a tweak to the points is all you want then, assuming your assessment is correct and Kurnoths are overpriced for 3E, we absolutely will see a point drop before the edition is done - how many points changes did we see in 2E?

If points aren't the problem I'd gladly accept discounts on Durthu (as did Katakros) or 190 points on Hunters (as with Annihilators). For once, just for once set points in our favor, not against.

We've been waiting for long now. Really long to receive a boost for a faction that is the weakest tournament faction on par with Beasts of Chaos. 

Let me rephrase your question: how many points changes in 2nd edition fixed Sylvaneth?

Guys, you may defend GW as long as you want. You may wait for erratas, FAQs, whatever another 6 years. I would like just devs to be reasonable about setting points. If a faction is a looser for last few years why not give it some discounts or don't touch it at all? There are factions that were mostly untouched with points. Fyreslayers, Nighthaunt (at least my build). And some were heavily damaged. Sylvaneth, Slaanesh, Tzeentch. Basically my old list lost a Durthu. That's huge.

Edit:

Take a look at Necropolis Stalkers, my favorite OBR unit. Points increase? None. This model plays EXACTLY the same role as Kurnoth Hunters do. 3 model unit, 4 wounds each, great offensive and defensive profile. Couldn't the points stay the same for Hunters? Ehhh...

Edited June 19, 2021 by Aeryenn

[Frowny]

I haven't tried them yet, but i still think hunters will be good. Easy access to +1 save is really really good when you have a rerollable save. It's what broke OBR on release. I think a block of 6 scythe hunters to lob upfield early on will be very strong. 

I'm thinking

Drycha

Durthu

TLA

Branchwraith

Dryadsx20

Dryadsx20

Revenants x5

Revenants x5

Hunters x6

Spite swarm hive

Might have to drive some dryads or revenants. Gives me 3 strong threats(durthu, drycha and hunters). Goal is to autosummon the woods and get lucky with the hive for a turn 1 strike with the hunters, who then sit on a rerollable 3+ and make a mess of my opponents. While everything else goes and takes objectives on the sides.

At least would let me try out the Heroic actions and monster actions a lot.

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

Let me rephrase your question: how many points changes in 2nd edition fixed Sylvaneth?

That’s another non-sequitur. You were, and still are, the one complaining about the points increases on some units. If you don’t believe that points changes are ever a solution, and that issues with the faction run much deeper than points changes can reach, then that’s a very different proposition and a very different conversation. 
 

But the only complaint you’ve made is about the points. All of the comparisons you’ve drawn with other factions have been about relative point increases. You can’t then pull a volte-face and ask everyone else to point out when points changes made a difference. 

[Mirage8112]

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

I would like just devs to be reasonable about setting points. If a faction is a looser for last few years why not give it some discounts or don't touch it at all? There are factions that were mostly untouched with points. Fyreslayers, Nighthaunt (at least my build). And some were heavily damaged. Sylvaneth, Slaanesh, Tzeentch. Basically my old list lost a Durthu. That's huge.

If your main tournament list took that big a hit in points, it's pretty obvious that that GW was targeting your type of list. Just before the points for 3.0 dropped, I built 3 lists and none of them really lost more than 100 points, some even less when you factor in the fact I don't have to pay for battalions anymore. But I build lists light on hunters (1 unit, maybe 2 max) and heavy on movement and board control. 

But aside from all that, your post sounds like a familiar complaint:

"I only care about tournament play. The list I've been running is no longer playable." But at the same time, "Sylvaneth are terrible in competitive play, and in a very bad place."

I don't get this mentality. Why are you mad about being unable to play a list that wasn't winning? Wouldn't you take that as a sign that maybe your style of play needed to change? Would you be pissed about being "unable" to drive a car that isn't legal anymore and never got you where you wanted to go anyway? 

For God sake, let it go and do something new. If your previous (losing) list was all hunters maybe you should consider diversifying your play. 

 

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

Take a look at Necropolis Stalkers, my favorite OBR unit. Points increase? None. This model plays EXACTLY the same role as Kurnoth Hunters do. 3 model unit, 4 wounds each, great offensive and defensive profile. Couldn't the points stay the same for Hunters? Ehhh...

Hunters are more mobile and able to broadcast Command abilities, Something OBR can't even take advantage of. That alone makes a hug difference, because hunters are taking advantage of a core mechanic of 3.0 that OBR have no access to. It's not just points that make a unit useful but how it fits into the army, the factions style of play, and new game mechanics of 3.0. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

That’s another non-sequitur. You were, and still are, the one complaining about the points increases on some units. If you don’t believe that points changes are ever a solution, and that issues with the faction run much deeper than points changes can reach, then that’s a very different proposition and a very different conversation. 

Honestly this. 

I just wonder if @Aeryenn just really, really wants Sylvaneth to be a Close combat specialist army who can go toe-to-teo with OBR or Blade of Khorne. 

Surprise! We aren't, we can't, and we haven't been able to for a while. 

We haven't been close combat specialists with "cheap" hunters since our first battle tome in 1.0: You're at least 2 editions behind. Unless our units are stupidly underpointed you're going to be disappointed if you want to lean heavily into the style of play.

Time to learn to do something different. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Mirage8112

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, Green Tea said:

I'm planning for the coming 750pt army size, and I'm wondering how branchwraiths' Dryad summoning works in matched play? Are they just extra units, or do you have to set aside points. Many thanks!

They are extra units, you don't have to pay for them. A Branchwraith will be really good in 750 points range if you can get her spell a couple of times!

[States]

1 hour ago, Frowny said:

I haven't tried them yet, but i still think hunters will be good. Easy access to +1 save is really really good when you have a rerollable save. It's what broke OBR on release. I think a block of 6 scythe hunters to lob upfield early on will be very strong. 

I'm thinking

Drycha

Durthu

TLA

Branchwraith

Dryadsx20

Dryadsx20

Revenants x5

Revenants x5

Hunters x6

Spite swarm hive

Might have to drive some dryads or revenants. Gives me 3 strong threats(durthu, drycha and hunters). Goal is to autosummon the woods and get lucky with the hive for a turn 1 strike with the hunters, who then sit on a rerollable 3+ and make a mess of my opponents. While everything else goes and takes objectives on the sides.

At least would let me try out the Heroic actions and monster actions a lot.

Haven't updated myself on all the new rules. But how would the hunters have a 3+ save? The rerolls would only work on your second turn onward right? To activate on your following charge phase.

[Emissary]

1 hour ago, States said:

Haven't updated myself on all the new rules. But how would the hunters have a 3+ save? The rerolls would only work on your second turn onward right? To activate on your following charge phase.

Mystic Shield or the new All Out Defense command ability.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Emissary

[Arzalyn]

So reading the discussion around here for the last days gave me some lists ideas, trying to make one for each of the glades (except Ironbark as I still find it's abilities a little weak).  No Alarielle list yet, I will try to brainstorm some lists for her in the following days.

Oakenbrown

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Oakenbrow
 

Warlord
Treelord Ancient (295)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (95)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Arch-Revenant (105)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Regal Old-growth
- Artefact: Dawnflask
20 x Dryads (190)
20 x Dryads (190)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords


Alpha-Beast Pack
Treelord (190)
Treelord (190)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Gladewyrm (60)
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 118

So lets start with the 4 "Treelords" list, finally Oakenbrown maybe viable! Our best glade if we want a list full of monsters to use all the new benefits monsters get on this edition. The general glade effect help us keep the treelords in a better combat profile and combined with the Alpha-beast battalion my plan was to let they get much closer to the enemy deploy and start annoying them with stomp + monstrous actions or even to get an objective early. The Arch revenant is there to give one of the Dryads block a extra attack with her command ability, which in paper looks quiet nice if all of them are able to get in combat.

Heartwood

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Heartwood

Warlord
Warsong Revenant (275)
- Artefact: Horn of Consort
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Arch-Revenant (105)
- General
- Command Trait: Legacy of Valour
- Artefact: Crown of Fell Bowers
30 x Dryads (285)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatbows

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 127

This one is the one I'm most insecure about. The Kurnoth points increase makes difficult to get more than 4 units in a list without sacrificing our heroes support and battleline bodies. I went with a double wraith mostly to try to get the most use of the cogs (there isn't much options for us in the 150 range other than hero/dryads/revenants + endless spell) and go with Crown artifact on the arch. One could change the Dryads and one wraith for 5 revenants and one more kurnoth unit (this would require changing the battle regiment battalion too). I do wonder if a second Arch would be too much, but it could be a option. The Warsong got the horn mostly to buff the Bow hunters in the back of the field.

Winterleaf

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Winterleaf

Warlord
Warsong Revenant (275)
Branchwraith (95)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Staff
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Spirit of Durthu (340)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Arch-Revenant (105)

- General
- Command Trait: My Heart is Ice

- Artefact: The Frozen Kernel
20 x Dryads (190)
20 x Dryads (190)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Wounds: 117

The focus here is try to get the most of the extra hit, be it with the volume of attack (dryads + arch rev command) or the quality of them (Durthu sword, kurnoth swords). At first I had Drycha in place of Durthu, but if I'm not mistaken with the new rules about triggered effects we wuld have to choose betwen extra attack or mortals on rolls of 6. Still, I could see myself getting her back in to get more reach.

Dreadwood

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Dreadwood

Warlord
Arch-Revenant (105)
Drycha Hamadreth (330)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (95)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)

Battle Regiment
Treelord Ancient (295)
- General
- Command Trait: Paragon of Terror
- Artefact: Jewel of Withering
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
5 x Spite-Revenants (70)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (430)
- Scythes

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Vengeful Skullroot (40)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Wounds: 102

This one is mostly to try to give the spites a home. 5 blocks can go with most of the other units (that didn't teleport) and spread their battleshock debuff around. Drycha and the Skullroot contribute with the bravery attack theme and go nicely with the spites. The Ancient get both the trait and the artifact to make him more durable, which could help him be a littl more active on the front line supporting the spites/kurnoth with his stomp/verdurous harmony.

Harvestboon

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Harvestboon

Warlord
Arch-Revenant (105)
- Artefact: Crown of Fell Bowers
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Warsong Revenant (275)

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)


Battle Regiment

Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Seek New Fruit
- Artefact: The Silent Sickle
30 x Dryads (285)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (430)
- Scythes

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 119

Welcome to the Durthu show! Not a lot of changes around here, Harvest boon trait and artifact go really well with Durthu and with the new Ghur command ability he should be pretty strong! I quietly like the Cogs here as both as away to simulate the spiritsong + throne combo on the Wraith without using a artifact slot and as a way to use the Hive other mode and still get a charge bonus (which Harvestboon likes).

Gnarlroot

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Gnarlroot

Warlord
Warsong Revenant (275)
- Artefact: Chalice of Nectar
Branchwraith (95)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Drycha Hamadreth (330)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

Battle Regiment

Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Command Trait: Nurtured by Magic

- Artefact: Arcane Tome
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth

Arch-Revenant (105)
20 x Dryads (190)

20 x Dryads (190)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (225)
- Greatswords

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Spiteswarm Hive (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 1995/ 2000
Wounds: 104

This one is more a for fun list, I call it "You are a wizard Durthu!". It's buff Durthu with the allegiance rerolls and give him more survivability with the trait + regrowth, plus he can try to cast some forest if he needs!. The warsong do the heavy lifting getting the cogs to give even more spells for the wizards. I could see myself trading one of the revenants for the Gladewyrm/Skullroot if I find myself with too much casting and too little spells.

 

Most of those list try to be "thematic", trying to make the most use of the abilities the glades give us. From this exercise I perceived some things:

- I really doubt we will see more than 12 kurnoth in the lists in the future. With the points increase they got quiet expensive an is hard to put lots of them + support heroes +  battlelines in the same list.

- I didn't include the Treelord as much as I hope, mostly because we generally have at least one monster in our lists thanks to Drycha/Durthu/Ancient. If having more than one monster become necessary, I would probably change one of the Kurnoth units in most list with one of them.

- Getting free of the battalions restrictions really helps in the list building process. Needing 3 battlelines and 2 heroes with less than 10 wounds for the extra artifact rarely fells like a restriction compared to the ones we had before.

If anyone like any of them and as any suggestion or want to try they in a game I would love some feedback!

Edited June 20, 2021 by Arzalyn
Added some extra thoughts

[Thrst77]

15 hours ago, Hoseman said:

I was thinking to focus on sylvaneth this edition. Is not an easy army to play, a lot of buffs and I was wondering... how many wyldwood do u usually put on table? And how many of them u own???

I feel this mechanic is cool but having to buy so much wyldwood is a bit redundant and meh for me

I've been playing a few games with sylvaneth and I have found that two boxes(6 trees) has done well for me. I try to have a 3 tree circle deploy at the start of the game and then summon trees where I feel they are needed. The changes to the wyldwood have made it a little easier on the wallet for us.

[Pennydude]

Is it just me or is the Emerald Lifeswarm really good for us? It’s finding a spot in about every single list of mine.