AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[ppetford]

I'm hoping the battalions in our book and the new Drycha one will still be around in matched play when AoS 3 hits. Every list I've written in the last week has the Drycha battalion and a unit of T-Revs to give me my battleline.

The info coming out of GW hasn't said categorically that these won't be usable, unless I've missed something?

 

[Walkirriox]

33 minutes ago, ppetford said:

I'm hoping the battalions in our book and the new Drycha one will still be around in matched play when AoS 3 hits. Every list I've written in the last week has the Drycha battalion and a unit of T-Revs to give me my battleline.

Wouldn’t you mind to share your lists with Drycha’s new battalion?? I want to play it on my next game!

[brattenbergus]

Howdy! Anyone know if the Wyldwood scenery in the Souldrain Forest Warcry Box is "allowed" to use as Awakened Wyldwoods? 

[Walkirriox]

14 minutes ago, brattenbergus said:

Howdy! Anyone know if the Wyldwood scenery in the Souldrain Forest Warcry Box is "allowed" to use as Awakened Wyldwoods? 

I think so, it looks like the exact same template as the Awakened Wyldwoods.

[brattenbergus]

1 hour ago, Walkirriox said:

I think so, it looks like the exact same template as the Awakened Wyldwoods.

Yeah, I thought so too. That would be great if that's the case, that box seems like a bargain, especially if you play Warcry and slowly building an Sylvaneth army as I do. 

[Kalimeo]

Hey guys

Im a bit uncertain about the new wyldwood setup. 

If i place 2 citadel wood pieces, do they need to connect physically with both tips? 

It kinda feels like if u wanna get a warsinger into hiding, 2 trees with leaves will just be frustrating... 

[Abstract_duck]

1 minute ago, Kalimeo said:

Hey guys

Im a bit uncertain about the new wyldwood setup. 

If i place 2 citadel wood pieces, do they need to connect physically with both tips? 

It kinda feels like if u wanna get a warsinger into hiding, 2 trees with leaves will just be frustrating... 

Jep, I think you have too. You should be able to hide the warsong revenant behind both wood pieces though since the scroll doesn't seem to state that units have to be in the forest. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but that should easily be 3'' of forest in from of him. He won't be protected from all sides, but you can probably hide him from the biggest ranged damage. A

[Abstract_duck]

1 hour ago, brattenbergus said:

Yeah, I thought so too. That would be great if that's the case, that box seems like a bargain, especially if you play Warcry and slowly building an Sylvaneth army as I do. 

I've bought it. I can confirm that it's the same set

[Kalimeo]

30 minutes ago, Abstract_duck said:

Jep, I think you have too. You should be able to hide the warsong revenant behind both wood pieces though since the scroll doesn't seem to state that units have to be in the forest. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but that should easily be 3'' of forest in from of him. He won't be protected from all sides, but you can probably hide him from the biggest ranged damage. A

True, but that terrain +1 save is just also really worth it. 

Just gonna be a bit wierd cause to pair em u need 2 of same size... 

So prob gonna need 12 now... Fml 😂

Thx for your response

[Kaylethia]

5 hours ago, ppetford said:

The info coming out of GW hasn't said categorically that these won't be usable, unless I've missed something?

My reading of their wording leans more toward them adding generic battallions that anyone can take, rather than a removal of everything else.

[Popisdead]

 

On 5/28/2021 at 2:54 PM, Freejack02 said:

The fact that the Goddess Alarielle still doesn't have even a conditional modifier to casting rolls is... maddening. I like the buffs, but with the points hike I doubt she'll really see competitive play.

 

Sad. 

And no Damage Prevention Roll.  And only now just getting to 3+ to hit (no reason she couldn't hit on 2s, WS in general is a forever issue in "fantasy").

On 5/30/2021 at 4:15 AM, EntMan said:

Apparently Verdant blessing is not technically part of Lore of the Deepwood, so alas my city is still restircted to one Wyldwood (via a Treelord Ancient) So maybe not worth the points or money investment after all.

I still think he has some interest and we'll see over the first 6 months of the edition.  The Song revenant can cast Throne of Vines in Living City now and one of their spells.  He may turn out to be pretty handy in the old collection.

On 5/30/2021 at 12:01 PM, Grimmlock619 said:

The Warsong Revanent, though a bit overcooked at 275, still definitely has a place in our army. We have been lacking on another multi caster and taking all the spells will definitely bring more utility to our force.

Now Alarielle, The Thigh Queen. 

Thigh queen I love it.  She heals well and there may be a way to have her lead Treelords better than before if the rumour their W-count/stat count for objective capping.

9 hours ago, ppetford said:

I'm hoping the battalions in our book and the new Drycha one will still be around in matched play when AoS 3 hits. Every list I've written in the last week has the Drycha battalion and a unit of T-Revs to give me my battleline.

The info coming out of GW hasn't said categorically that these won't be usable, unless I've missed something?

 

It is rumours form AoS lab.  They are moving to BRB battalions for matched play.  Think how 40k has generic uh.. battalions?   Most likely a form like Hero, 3x BL, some monster or whatever.  I wonder also with the increase of CP it will move to a near identical model of 40k with their CP.   Buying the first Battalion with a WArlord is free but others cost CP.

Keep in mind that Path to Glory may allow Battle Tome battalions and a LOT of people love playing Crusade in 40k.  So you may still get to play your Drycha and Spite Revs in the game, just in a different manner.  My understanding is GW finally got a progressive system for army building right with 9th ed 40k and that's coming to AoS.  

[Landohammer]

My two cents:

Wildwood changes: Good. Probably our biggest pickup in BR. I am ready for the new LOS rules right now! Also makes me want to take that floating tree endless spell that does d6 mortals when near a forest so the forest becomes quite scary to be near. 

Warsong Revenant: Overall pretty meh, but they are better than the TLA for the points. I'm hoping bravery plays a larger part in 3.0 and so maybe taking them with spites could help nuke bravery. I like the idea of putting her on a balewind for a highly versatile support unit with a lot of spell options.

Alarielle: Guys. She is bad. Like really bad. Compare her to Morathi or Teclis and she just absolutely falls apart. She gained more reliable damage output, retreat and charge, and 2d6, but her Talon was nerfed into the ground. All of this for a 23% increase in cost. 

This hurts my soul because she is my favorite model. My only hope is that the "stomping and shouting" buff given to monsters mentioned in the preview will be the return of thunderstomp, and perhaps that plus a universal incoming point hike (like we saw in 40k) will justify her cost increase. But right now i just don't see it.

 

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Alarielle: Guys. She is bad. Like really bad. Compare her to Morathi or Teclis and she just absolutely falls apart. She gained more reliable damage output, retreat and charge, and 2d6, but her Talon was nerfed into the ground. All of this for a 23% increase in cost. 

I agree that I don't love the points increase, but I'd like to see what else 3.0 has in store as far as changes go before I call her awful. I've always hated the fact she gets no bonus to casting, but honestly I think her main issue as she sits right now is too many points "invested" on just being beefy and strong in melee, when that's not really where you want her. I wish they would have given more emphasis on her ranged spear and taken some damage away from the beetle; then at least I'd know where/how to play her. Currently I feel like she's being wasted if she's not making use of them big antlers. Similar to why I think Bow Hunters are ineffective; just too many points wrapped up in being 5w with a 4+ rerollable save... it doesn't leave much room for offense. 

[Landohammer]

The core of the issue is that her cost is clearly inflated to include the free unit she summons: ~200pts. However that kind of tax is not uniformly applied across the rest of the factions. For example, lord Kroak will on average contribute 5-7 CPs to a game, but he isn't taxed 250pts for that. 

But lets be honest, nobody bothered fielding her at 600pts. She was costed the same as 45 wounds of Kurnoth Hunters, and now she is closer to 60 wounds worth. 

I eagerly await the GHB 21 points costs and thunderstomp changes, but outside of sweeping game wide point increases, she is DOA competitively. 

 

[Havelocke]

7 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

I think her main issue as she sits right now is too many points "invested" on just being beefy and strong in melee, when that's not really where you want her. I wish they would have given more emphasis on her ranged spear and taken some damage away from the beetle; then at least I'd know where/how to play her. Currently I feel like she's being wasted if she's not making use of them big antlers.

I think the reason it's hard to see where/how to play Alarielle is because she's designed to be a versatile generalist. Here's how I think I would try to use her:

In the first couple turns, Alarielle wants to be somewhere in the midboard, behind your frontline units. Between her spells and her spear, she does enough to be a factor without forcing her into melee. Make the other player choose between investing resources in getting to her, or just taking the damage she puts out.

In the mid-late game, her mobility shines. Being able to fly 16", along with retreat and charge, means you have a decent ability to pick and choose her engagements. This is where her melee profile comes in. This Alarielle will be amazing at cleaning up damaged units and picking off targets of opportunity as the game develops.

Is that enough to justify 740(-190) points? Hard to say. I think it's possible, though...

 

[Landohammer]

If I had to use her, I would use her like this:

Fling her forward towards the scariest thing in the opponents list. Use her shooting attack, magic, impact hits and melee against that target if possible and nuke it off the table. Extra points if you can get the frozen kernel close enough to activate on her and/or make the charge with the 3 kurnoth hunters you summoned. 

Force your opponent to have to scramble to deal with her in their deployment zone. They will have to overcommit resources to make sure she dies, because even at one wound left she is still a moderate threat, and can potentially heal herself up. The healing potential of 2d6 plus d6 for regrowth is pretty annoying. 

The tragedy of her is that she brings a desperately needed "fast hammer" to the army, but she is just so overcosted she will almost never score her points back. An allied unit of 6 eels does the same job for less than half her cost. 

 

 

[Xil]

Hm, i am not sold on Alariell yet...i consider her to expensive as of now. Might change with AoS3.0 and the buff to Monsters.

I do like the Revenant tho. I greatly Value the flexibility he brings with knowing all the spell lore. I am going to test him out for sure. If he turns out to be overcosted aswell then nothing really changes anyways. Its not that i would have won the game otherwise anyway

[Freejack02]

2 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Force your opponent to have to scramble to deal with her in their deployment zone. They will have to overcommit resources to make sure she dies

Not convinced this is true honestly. She has no mortal shrug, no FNP, and a 3+ save... that is not too hard to nova down in a single phase for a good hammer unit and if she's in the enemy deployment zone they really don't have to overcommit movement-wise to get her out of the game.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Freejack02

[Xil]

14 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Not convinced this is true honestly. She has no mortal shrug, no FNP, and a 3+ save... that is not too hard to nova down in a single phase for a good hammer unit and if she's in the enemy deployment zone they really don't have to overcommit movement-wise to get her out of the game.

True.

Does she heal 2d6 each hero phase or just YOUR hero phase? I am reading a lot of 'each' but as far as i know its only in your.

[Havelocke]

14 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

...that is not too hard to nova down in a single phase for a good hammer unit...

It's not my suggestion, but I'll defend the idea:

The point is not for her to survive, but to disrupt. Keeping your opponent's primary offensive threat(s) in their own deployment zone for a turn can have a serious impact on the game. Using Alarielle in this way puts your opponent in a bind because over-commiting to removing her will stall their ability to move up the board, while under-commiting represents a huge risk because of her regeneration.

And of course, all of this becomes even trickier for the opponent if Alarielle manages to remove or severely damage one of their primary offensive threats on the turn she charges in.

[Havelocke]

11 minutes ago, Xil said:

Does she heal 2d6 each hero phase or just YOUR hero phase?

Your own hero phase only.

[Tizianolol]

Guys what about single wildwood piace. If I put 3 khurnos hunter with bow into it, do you think opponent cant shoot to them cause new ww rule? Are that KH considered in cover? 

[Grimmlock619]

18 minutes ago, Havelocke said:

Your own hero phase only.

Yep, I think the initial leak said each and people started hanging on to that. What I do believe Sylvaneth can now play for the double turn now. Wyldwood placement is now easier with a very small foot print. I have a list I want to try with her that benefits on going second on various of turns. 

 

5 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys what about single wildwood piace. If I put 3 khurnos hunter with bow into it, do you think opponent cant shoot to them cause new ww rule? Are that KH considered in cover? 

I don't think a single piece will block LoS. They measure about 2.5" in width and we need 3" to block. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Grimmlock619

[Tizianolol]

Ok , sad , i immagine 3 KH cant be in cover into 1 ww right?

[Havelocke]

1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:

Ok , sad , i immagine 3 KH cant be in cover into 1 ww right?

A single wyldwood can be anywhere from 1 to 3 models. A single model isn't going to cut it, but you should be able to hide them inside of a three piece wyldwood, and probably behind a two piece wyldwood, as well.