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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I like your list! Very similar to the list I played before but without alarielle and more kurnoth. What do you think about pendulum, geminids and balewind? Which one was useful and which one would you change?  

I’m thinking about taking cogs to use the +2 charge, would be great teleporting and charging at 7.

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New player here - advanced warning for extreme ignorance :)

So ... I have finally succumbed to AoS after 5 years.  I’ve got a tournament starting in 7 weeks so I need to design, build, paint an army.  Hopefully I’ll have enough time to actually learn how to play before then :) 

I’ve decided to go with a winter themed Sylvaneth army.  

Some background on the look and feel of the army.

1. Basing will be cork with ices. Most models will come up from the ice flow (see Basing pics attached).

2. Allarielle will be on an ice monster - I am thinking the GW dread maw model - is this okay to play with ?

3) paint scheme will be the main ‘inside’ body being guillan and coellia shade on top of white with a praexti drybrish. (See attached weapon as an example) 

4) unsure about the outer layers ... I am thinking of trying f the new nighthaunt technical paints either the green or blue.

Some questions

1) any ideas on conversions of hunters and sprites and dryads with a winter theme - I was thinking of using yeti-styled weapons but don’t know how to source them.  Maybe model up ice shards for each hand weapon. Any suggestions? Or maybe face swaps if there are any cool ‘ice warrior’ faces from other ranges.  Any and all suggestions welcomed. 

2) thinking of adding wisps of mist around bases and models but don’t want it look like ****** - any suggestions there for ways to create a mist effect that look good?

 

 

 

 

 

73CB635B-5BA0-4AAD-AB18-E12084EE9890.png

859CBF94-E9F1-4A9A-8B7B-56E30EF3E081.png

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15 hours ago, Walkirriox said:

I like your list! Very similar to the list I played before but without alarielle and more kurnoth. What do you think about pendulum, geminids and balewind? Which one was useful and which one would you change?  

I’m thinking about taking cogs to use the +2 charge, would be great teleporting and charging at 7.

In 2 games I have not had the opportunity to use balewind (which is there for the circlet/reaping wych). Both geminids and pendulum are fine. Pendulum usually doesn't hit much after the first turn (I believe it's one way) but if you cast it when battle lines ate closing it's often possible to just put it into 2 units... 2D6 mw is just fine fine fine. Geminids are nice too... When moving circles with it (which is what you'll usually try to hit 3 units you'll see 8 inch isn't a lot and I've often not bothered to try to convince my opponent that I really could just pass over 1 mm of the bases of 3 units. . I settle for 2x 2d3 MW and the modifiers... Which is also nicenicenice . I'm mostly not very happy with alarielle yet in combat(below average rolls) but her spells healing, TL summon and survivability make up for it usually (in my first game vs gore pilgrims the opponents double turn got her 6d6 mw from slaughter priests which killed her.. But that batallion is insane and still way op imho). I'm thinking about how I could put a loremaster in there.. alarielle and tl/tla make him a very very acceptable choice even at his point value.... Just Not sure what to cut.... wraith? Endless spells? 10 of the 20 dryads? Not real stuff I'd like too loose...

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23 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

@scrubyandwells If you've got the time I'm interested in your opinion. I really want to swap the TLA for more reliable damage (those sweeping blows, especially when wounded feel awful) but I'm very reluctant to miss out on a woods generator... The re-roll 1's doesn't feel super relevant for my list either but that 4+ forest creation would be missed, even when I have a hero casting verdant blessing with Ranu's and an acorn bearer. Another downside is my ideal swaps (Drycha, Durthu, or simply more Hunters) would result in me have access to three artifacts but only taking 2 (and that just feels like a total waste).

Thanks for the summary, @IndigoGirls.

Outside of Gnarlroot, what I'd consider the most competitive builds usually don't include the Ancient. Given that Silent Communion seems like it has failed 80% of the time over my hundreds of games in the last few years, I'm reluctant to view that ability as an argument in favor of the Ancient, but others mileage may vary. :)

All else equal, I think one drops are still the most competitive for us, although as discussed w/ Vince and Tom, I think a lot of folks will build Dreadwood lists the wrong way, relying too much on alphastrike hammering -- a surefire way to drop one or two games in a 5-game tournament. As more folks play Dreadwood (and other alphastrike builds), more players will understand how to defend against it.

Personally, after playing Gnarlroot since 2016, I'd like to get more experience with 5-7 drops (e.g. with Free Spirits battalion), as well as 10+ drops (with no battalion), and see how well Sylvaneth can do at tournaments without relying on one drops. 

Of course, non-one-drop builds need enough screens to defend vs the plethora of alphastrike-capable armies, or in general vs all the builds that hit hard when they come in (e.g., Stormcast, Idoneth Daughters of Khaine, et al.). In that regard, Dryads remain a mainstay, along with Eternal Guard, which at 70 points for x10 are the closest-equivalent option we have to Skinks, and we saw the value in GHB17 (and now in GHB18) of a couple units of 10 Skinks.

In terms of Sylvaneth units:

Buying:

  • Alarielle
  • Drycha
  • Spirit of Durthu
  • Branchwraith
  • Kurnoth Swords
  • Spite-Revenants (saving extra points in a battleline slot can make a difference in list building + Whispers in the Dark is excellent)

Selling:

  • Treelord Ancient (outside of Gnarlroot)
  • Treelord
  • Branchwych (outside of Gnarlroot and Ironbark)
  • Kurnoth Bows (can see a case for x3, especially in an Alarielle list where you can summon another x3)

Holding:

  • Dryads
  • Tree-Revenants 
  • Kurnoth Scythes (still prefer 2x3 over 1x6 for greater board presence / optionality)
Edited by scrubyandwells
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@scrubyandwells thank you for your thoughts! I would agree that Silent Communion is not reliable enough. Regardless, thank you for echoing a sentiment that I had felt but was uncertain of, i.e. TLA not being an auto-include.

@Aezeal I listened to the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOCzPII5R4) again and have approximate timestamps for broad categories of discussion!

0:35 - 1:23 Sylvaneth warscroll/rules change discussion

1:44 - 2:07 Dreadwood Battalion

1:44 - 2:07 LoS Forest Ruling

2:07 - 2:23 Other Sylvaneth Battalions

2:23 - 2:44 Potential Allies

2:44 - Close Match-up Discussion

Hope it helps make a long video more accessible :)

 

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@scrubyandwells how would you build a non alphastrike dreadwood? Would you be dropping Prime for something else?  I listen to warhammer weekly episode and it seemed to focus on the alphastrike side of dreadwood but less on the non alphastrike. Also looking the past 3 big tournaments dreadwood didn’t seem to be placing that high and people at going for no battalions or gnarlroot or the 1 harvest list. 

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I think gnarlroot still has potential but gore pilgrims is a nasty match up..Even with awesome dice it would probably a loss... 8/10.. Using spells to snipe means you won't be doing it at 30 " (as with bow hunters). Which means you can't start sniping turn 1. And characters that really stay behind the enemy line... say.... a secrator will still be hard to reach. I guess that alarielle could get behind lines (assuming you can get a forest there and teleport seems optimistic) and could snipe with spells and then hope to survive,.... against some  armies it might actually work.. but gore pilgrims has high damage output and will block so much spells that it's like,y a waste of 600 points.

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On 8/13/2018 at 12:26 AM, Walkirriox said:

I like your list! Very similar to the list I played before but without alarielle and more kurnoth. What do you think about pendulum, geminids and balewind? Which one was useful and which one would you change?  

I’m thinking about taking cogs to use the +2 charge, would be great teleporting and charging at 7.

In my meta there is often tons of terrain on the table (or big pieces).. very hard to place much after first turn (besides on table edge of my side of the board if I don't pu models there.

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Guys,  I have a great question about Solemn Guardian ability of Spirit of Durthu. 

Let me verify if I have well understood it:

If another hero (within 6") has been hitten and failed his own save roll,  I can roll a dice and (on a result of 4+) i can redirect that damage to Durthu that can make his own roll save. 

Is this correct?  Becouse,  if it is then it meens that on a 4+ I have a double save roll.  And if Durthu is my general it is quite easy to avoid a lot of wounds...  It seems quite OP to me. 

Can you confirm? 

EDIT: after re-reading it a lot of time I think that I only get the Durthu save roll.  Is this correct? 

Edited by Darkundo
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20 hours ago, Drillz said:

@scrubyandwells how would you build a non alphastrike dreadwood? Would you be dropping Prime for something else?  I listen to warhammer weekly episode and it seemed to focus on the alphastrike side of dreadwood but less on the non alphastrike. Also looking the past 3 big tournaments dreadwood didn’t seem to be placing that high and people at going for no battalions or gnarlroot or the 1 harvest list. 

Non alphastrike dreadwood is less about bombing the prime, Drycha, and Alarielle, and more about placing the largest woods cluster you can over one or two objectives, teleporting a huge unit of dryads in, and bunkering down to win on objectives. Really any one drop Sylvaneth list can do this, it's just Dreadwood is the cheapest

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10 hours ago, Matt Large said:

side note. Is it acceptable to simply not model Drycha with either option to leave both options open? Or is the consensus that the spite of choice HAS to be put onto her? 

I've seen tournament-goers say that it's acceptable to model her with both. It has also been acceptable to model the spites and flitterfuries on separate bases and and the one you're using to her base for the game.

8 hours ago, Darkundo said:

Guys,  I have a great question about Solemn Guardian ability of Spirit of Durthu. 

Let me verify if I have well understood it:

If another hero (within 6") has been hitten and failed his own save roll,  I can roll a dice and (on a result of 4+) i can redirect that damage to Durthu that can make his own roll save. 

Is this correct?  Becouse,  if it is then it meens that on a 4+ I have a double save roll.  And if Durthu is my general it is quite easy to avoid a lot of wounds...  It seems quite OP to me. 

Can you confirm? 

EDIT: after re-reading it a lot of time I think that I only get the Durthu save roll.  Is this correct? 

I've been playing it as your edit states. A bit of wonky wording for sure. Also note that it is not an optional ability, if you have a hero within 6", you must roll.

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13 hours ago, Matt Large said:

side note. Is it acceptable to simply not model Drycha with either option to leave both options open? Or is the consensus that the spite of choice HAS to be put onto her? 

I put neither on because I think they both look rubbish! No one has mentioned it ever at a tournament. You may have more issues if you’ve modelled one and use the other though

jimbo

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I have one question for experienced Gnarlroot players:

Do you use the "free" Order Wizard in the batallion and which wizards do make sense?

I was thinking about adding a squad of Evocaters but am not sure if it is worth it or if should just use the points for an additional unit of Kurnoth Hunters.

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On 8/15/2018 at 1:58 AM, Jimbo said:

I put neither on because I think they both look rubbish! No one has mentioned it ever at a tournament. You may have more issues if you’ve modelled one and use the other though

jimbo

I put both on.  There are two sections of spites on the arm.  Just half and half.

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53 minutes ago, Girgutz StormStompa said:

Hey all, me and the fiance are thinking about doing a Sylvaneth army and I simply ADORE Kurnoth Hunters and Dryads, could a army with say 6 squads of kurnoth hunters with a mixture of scythes and bows work? Or are Kurnoth hunters just not worth using?

Kurnoth Hunters are amazing and 6 units of them would most importantly look amazing! The only variant thats been hit is the bows, the sword and scythes are still as good as ever. 

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I may look to post this elsewhere on the forums but it is a question I feel Sylvaneth easily encounter.

With of the two battalion options we have most lists I write up contain 3 artifacts. In some variants I end up with only two of the three being used (i.e. Drycha and Alarielle in a list). How do people feel about NOT using an artifact slot? Maybe I'm overvaluing but I always want to use all I'm given.

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47 minutes ago, IndigoGirls said:

I may look to post this elsewhere on the forums but it is a question I feel Sylvaneth easily encounter.

With of the two battalion options we have most lists I write up contain 3 artifacts. In some variants I end up with only two of the three being used (i.e. Drycha and Alarielle in a list). How do people feel about NOT using an artifact slot? Maybe I'm overvaluing but I always want to use all I'm given.


I try when ever possible to bring however many artifacts I'm allowed. Sometimes I'll try to squeeze in a wraith or wytch and include a utility item on them. Sometimes a cheap utility-caster is worth more than their equivalent points in CC units. 

 

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1 hour ago, IndigoGirls said:

I may look to post this elsewhere on the forums but it is a question I feel Sylvaneth easily encounter.

With of the two battalion options we have most lists I write up contain 3 artifacts. In some variants I end up with only two of the three being used (i.e. Drycha and Alarielle in a list). How do people feel about NOT using an artifact slot? Maybe I'm overvaluing but I always want to use all I'm given.

I really would feel uncomfortable not using all the artifact I can use. If necessary I add one more Wraith or Wych to be equipped with an Acorn or a Lamentiri. 

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4 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:


I try when ever possible to bring however many artifacts I'm allowed. Sometimes I'll try to squeeze in a wraith or wytch and include a utility item on them. Sometimes a cheap utility-caster is worth more than their equivalent points in CC units. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Darkundo said:

I really would feel uncomfortable not using all the artifact I can use. If necessary I add one more Wraith or Wych to be equipped with an Acorn or a Lamentiri. 

I've been doing the same thing this whole time. However, I'm starting to doubt myself. Spending 80pts (4% of your army value) to ensure an artifact bearer might not be the right choice.

I'm glad to hear that my original opinion on the matter is echoed by others. Lately, I've been thinking up lists that can't make use of all the artifacts I have access to so I think part of me is trying to justify those lists against my opinion that everything I'm given through battalion choices should be used.

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Hi guys, I recently traded my AoS force for a large Sylvaneth force (Have the whole range and really everything I need).

Playing my first few 1000 point games this week, going with -

Branchwraith - 80
Branchwych - 80

30 Dryads - 270
10 Tree Revenants - 160

3 Kurnoth Hunters (Bows) - 200
3 Kunroth Hunters ( Scythes) - 200

will let you know how they go :)

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