AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[simakover]

1 hour ago, Nixon said:

@simakover

Sure thing bro! What point size are you aiming at? And what Glade do you prefer?

Any, im think. Also want but hamadreth cause looks awesome

[Tizianolol]

Guys i got a discussion about throne of vines spell. I red that this buff stacks. It means if i cast that turn 1. At turn 3 i got +6 to cast? Am i right? Thx all!

[Pennydude]

47 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys i got a discussion about throne of vines spell. I red that this buff stacks. It means if i cast that turn 1. At turn 3 i got +6 to cast? Am i right? Thx all!

Correct.  RAW, the buff stacks.  

 

49 minutes ago, simakover said:

Any, im think. Also want but hamadreth cause looks awesome

I love me some Drycha and try to fit her in about every list of mine.  I find that she's really good in Gnarlroot since she can reroll 1s to hit by herself since she's a wizard.  The fact that she dropped 20pts to 300 was just gravy and honestly pushes Durthu out of any list I make.

[Nixon]

1 hour ago, simakover said:

Any, im think. Also want but hamadreth cause looks awesome

Try something like this. Thats what I would do. 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

 

Leaders

Drycha Hamadreth (300)

Branchwraith (80)

Branchwraith (80)

Treelord Ancient (260)

 

Battleline

5 x Tree-Revenants (80)

30 x Dryads (270)

10 x Dryads (100)

 

Units

6 x Kurnoth Hunters (380)

- Scythes

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)

- Greatswords

3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)

- Greatswords

 

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Spiteswarm Hive (50)

 

Total: 1980 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 137

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Nixon

[Tizianolol]

Guys when i m positioning awakened wildwood battletome says that i have to touch tips of 3 pieces. I have seen in many games people that dont touch each tips, is that not allowed in a tournament? Its helps a lot to place them!

[Pennydude]

4 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys when i m positioning awakened wildwood battletome says that i have to touch tips of 3 pieces. I have seen in many games people that dont touch each tips, is that not allowed in a tournament? Its helps a lot to place them!

Yes, they need to form a circle but do the best you can on the tips.  Something I'm planning on doing is filling in the undersides of the bases with green stuff to give them some weight.  Hopefully it would help keep them in place better.

[albionsangel]

So I have gone over the last 3 or 4 pages, and I am starting to get  feel for things (brand new to AoS and seriously leaning towards Sylvaneth). 

I wont be tournamenting, but will be playing with 3 casual friends, 2 of whom have been playing AoS and Fantasy (one is Skaven, the other is Daemons - sometimes Tzneetch, sometimes Khorne) for years, and one who just got their Nighthaunt army. (We all play 40k together too). 

Trying to figure out what I need to get, and how best to play, and I am liking the sound of free dryads and teleporting (which I guess means Tree-Rev), and I like the Spite-rev models a lot, as well as Drycha. Presumably I need some hunters in there for some heavy lifting. And a branchwraith for the summoning (is she the only summoner?). Battalions get you CP, right? Trying to get out of the 40k mindset where Battalions are a detachment type. But, in general, I have 0 clue what I am doing. 

I threw this together but would like some advice in general:

Leaders:

Drycha
ATL
Branchwraith

Battleline:

10 Tree-Rev
2x5 Tree Rev

Other:

6 Scythe Hunters
2x3 GS Hunters

Battalion:

Outcasts

Probably Gnarlroot most of the time, to better guarantee summons. In theory, I could bring in 10 Dryads a turn for free. Right? Winterleaf gives a nice combat boost, while Dreadwood synergises well with the Spites. If Skaven are still similar to old world Fantasy, then the Outcasts should be good for them, as I can hopefully play up to battleshock.

Thing is, I would also like to win some games now and then. Ok, sure, practically no one is winning vs Tzneetch right now, but I am hardly facing meta. I just need something I can actually stand a chance with. Before I buy some boxes that is. 

Can anyone help out with that? Edits to my list? Point me towards other models? Spells I have missed for summoning, teleporting, better utilising Revs in general? Weapon choices? 

Thanks guys. 

[Pennydude]

You'll need to change your Tree-Revs to Spite Revs in order to use the Outcast battalion.  Thing with the Spites is while they can be really blendy, a stiff breeze will kill them.   You can't really go wrong with your leaders.  You'll want the spell Throne of Vines and the artefact Spiritsong Stave on the Branchwraith if you want to better consistently summon Dryads.   The endless spells for Sylvaneth are neat too with Spiteswarm Hive being in most lists.  If you want to go heavy on the Spites and bravery debuff, you can also run the Vengeful Skullroot.  

Remember, bodies on objectives win games.  May not hurt to run 5 battleline units in 20-30 Dryads, 3x5 Spites and 1x5 (or 10) Tree-Revs and go from there.  If you want go to more Kurnoth heavy, I'd also run an Arch-Revenant.  

For the glades, there's a few that are really good and it honestly just depends on your preference.  Dreadwood has been the go-to for tournaments but Winterleaf, Gnarlroot (my personal fav), and Harvestboon are all good.

[albionsangel]

Ah, sorry, I think my formatting made it a little difficult to see. The outcast bat has 3 units of spites in it already, even with the tree revs as the main battle line. Unless I am misunderstanding how bats work? So its 10 Trees and 2x5 Trees AND 3x5 Spites. I really like the look of spites but they do seem weak. Def a "hammer" to the tree-rev "anvil", or bodies on points. Causing extra models to flee is nice, especially if I can get rid of the heroes of the Skaven player. 

Dreadwood does seem really nice. Free reroll of wounds on Spites seems nice, makes them more "Hammerish". And the command point teleport is nice (and teleporting/summoning trees is kinda what is drawing me to Sylvaneth). If I ran Dreadwood, then the Stave seems really good on the Branchwraith. On the other hand, going Gnarlroot would allow for the Chalice, allowing for a more guaranteed summon attempt each turn, without resorting to the Throne. 

I was playing around and actually took out one of the units of 3 Kurnoths, so I could cram in some endless spells. Except then I was quite a bit under 2000 and could fit in all 3, and still be under the target. Im worried though. From what I am reading, Kurnoths seem important, providing the punch that many Sylvaneth units often lack. 

I can see the need for more battleline. I was hoping that if I can reliably summon Dryads, then I get a free battleline unit every turn. But I dont know if thats viable. Everything filled up so quickly! 

I do love the model for Drycha, but I do wonder if shes needed in a 2000 pt army, or if I should save her (and Alarielle) for a 3000 or 3500 pt army (my friends informed me that they can play to any level I want to field, and they have run 3000 point battles against each other, and still only fielded half their models). That would free up 300 points which could go on another leader and some other things, but what I dont know. 

Anyone got any tips for a list if I want to use teleporting/summoning a lot, and make it viable, but still include outcasts and not be a complete pushover? For around 2000 pts? I figure if I can start there, I can build up to 3000 or more later. 

[Aezeal]

Drycha is good at most point levels, certainly at 2k.

If you want to play outcast it means you need to have 3 units of spites in your army before you can select outcast (and pay the points for that). The tree-rev's are not needed unless you want another 3 smallish units with weak defense (my suggestion: if outcast go 3 units of spites , MAYBE a single unit of tree revs and then get some more heavy hitters --> hunters or if you need more bodies get a big unit of dryads or increase size of the spite units).

Spites are glasscannons , in large units maybe a bit of a hammer but you certainly shouldn't think T-revs are an anvil. They are very much NOT an anvil (for their points relatively low wounds, lowish  and no other defensive option) their teleport is where the magic is: perfectly placed roadblocks, the treat of getting behind lines forcing the opponent to keep stuff on objectives and actually getting behind lines if there is something weak or an undefended objective. Hunters and dryads are anvils (though usually you'll be using hunters on the offence, but if the enemy hits them they can certainly take a punch). 

My experience that is unless you take specific items summoning dryads isn't very reliable but in gnarlroot it should be an option.

[albionsangel]

Ok, I am a little confused then about the Outcasts thing. 

Trying to army build with Battlescribe. Are you saying that I need to have 3 units of spites, THEN take outcasts which ALSO comes with 3 units of spites (for a total of 6 units of spites). Or are you saying I need to have 3 spite units in my army, which then BECOME an outcasts battalion if I choose that option (and pay the points)? The way that battlescribe is set up, when i select the outcasts battalion, its a separate "thing" in my army, that has 3 units of spites in it. 

Yeah, I dont know why I thought the Tree Revs were more hardy than the spites. They have one fewer attack, require one more to hit, get rend, and can reroll 1 roll per phase, but it seems their real benefit is teleporting. From what I understand (and correct me if I am wrong), I get to summon dryads (and some models can summon hunters) at Awakened Wyldwoods, I can teleport one unit per round if it is near an awakened wyldwood to any other awakened wyldwood, certain units can do this in addition to the one unit picked (Treelord Ancients, for example, have this as an ability, which presumably does not count towards the 1 unit limit), Dreadwood gives a command point teleport for a single unit within 18" of a hero to anywhere on the board, and Tree Revs also get free teleports if they have waypipes. Of course, if I go Gnarlroot for that sweet, sweet chalice, then I lose a teleport, but gain better dryad summoning. 

So, assuming that the way I have Outcasts right now (where I am assuming it comes with 3 spite units and their associated points costs, as battlescribe shows), and rolling in what you say, I probably want to drop at least one tree rev unit, and maybe squeeze in another hunter unit, or as Pennydude suggested, a unit of dryads that is fielded from the start. Ok, I can start to see this taking shape. I def want to try and have dryads being summoned. It seems extremely useful to just have more free batteline units appearing when and where I need them. 

What are the limits on artefacts. Is it one per army, or one per hero? Because I obviously need to take the one associated with a grove if I take that grove, but both the acorn and the spiritsong staff seem too good to pass up (acorn would bring my wyldwoods up to 3, while the staff would help the branchwych when I am not taking Gnarlroot as my grove). 

[Aezeal]

7 hours ago, albionsangel said:

Trying to army build with Battlescribe. Are you saying that I need to have 3 units of spites, THEN take outcasts which ALSO comes with 3 units of spites (for a total of 6 units of spites). Or are you saying I need to have 3 spite units in my army, which then BECOME an outcasts battalion if I choose that option (and pay the points)? The way that battlescribe is set up, when i select the outcasts battalion, its a separate "thing" in my army, that has 3 units of spites in it. 

No at your first line, Yes at the second. Outcasts comes with nothing except the rules it has. It has a requirement : you need to have 3 units of spites before you can pick it. You get no units form it just the rules, an extra CP and an extra artefact (the last being the main reason to pick a batallion for sylvaneth since the benefits from the batallions itself are quite a bit weaker than in other books). I don't use battlescribe but I guess the way you describe it you just pick outcasts, accept the units it gives you or increase it. No need for other battleline if you don't want. 

 

7 hours ago, albionsangel said:

Yeah, I dont know why I thought the Tree Revs were more hardy than the spites. They have one fewer attack, require one more to hit, get rend, and can reroll 1 roll per phase, but it seems their real benefit is teleporting. From what I understand (and correct me if I am wrong), I get to summon dryads (and some models can summon hunters) at Awakened Wyldwoods, I can teleport one unit per round if it is near an awakened wyldwood to any other awakened wyldwood, certain units can do this in addition to the one unit picked (Treelord Ancients, for example, have this as an ability, which presumably does not count towards the 1 unit limit), Dreadwood gives a command point teleport for a single unit within 18" of a hero to anywhere on the board, and Tree Revs also get free teleports if they have waypipes. Of course, if I go Gnarlroot for that sweet, sweet chalice, then I lose a teleport, but gain better dryad summoning. 

Yes at everything. 1 woods teleport and all TL variants get to teleport from wood to wood too and Trevs always and everywhere (everything 9" away from enemy of course which will  be a problem often)

 

7 hours ago, albionsangel said:

So, assuming that the way I have Outcasts right now (where I am assuming it comes with 3 spite units and their associated points costs, as battlescribe shows), and rolling in what you say, I probably want to drop at least one tree rev unit, and maybe squeeze in another hunter unit, or as Pennydude suggested, a unit of dryads that is fielded from the start. Ok, I can start to see this taking shape. I def want to try and have dryads being summoned. It seems extremely useful to just have more free batteline units appearing when and where I need them. 

Sounds like a good basic army - roll with gnarlroot or dreadwood. Just play a few games and get a feel for it and the strategies and see what you like (dreadwood is often used for a sort of alpha strike with a large unit of hunters for example and in combination with an endless spell improving charges to make the 9" charge more sure I've not actually played it but it might be a bit trickier to get done than most other strats so I'd suggest trying a few gnarlroot or winterleaf games first.. but that is just me)you'd like.

Personally I'd say: with a single unit of 30 dryads, Drycha, a wraith and with a few units of hunters (9 or more models in total) back with an arch revenant you can't really go wrong. 

 

7 hours ago, albionsangel said:

What are the limits on artefacts. Is it one per army, or one per hero? Because I obviously need to take the one associated with a grove if I take that grove, but both the acorn and the spiritsong staff seem too good to pass up (acorn would bring my wyldwoods up to 3, while the staff would help the branchwych when I am not taking Gnarlroot as my grove). 

You get 1 in a basic army to go on any NON-special character (Alarielle or Drycha) hero. Then you get an extra artefact for every batallion you take. No matter how many artefacts you may take it's ALWAY max 1 per character. Your general could have a command trait and an artefact for more abilities but no hero can have 2 artefacts.

Yes we have good artefact options (which is why I said it's the main reason to take a batallion) but our batallions are relatively expensive for what they do besides that in my opinion. Another option is to not take a specific glade so you have a free pick for the first artefact..but that means trading a lot of good abilities - and often a good artefact too - for that option (overall it's not done a lot I think).

Edited August 5, 2020 by Aezeal

[Mojo]

Hi guys i want start sylvanth army, any advice for competitive list with Alarielle ? 

[Sleepa]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

Hi guys i want start sylvanth army, any advice for competitive list with Alarielle ? 

There is no currently competitive list using Alarielle. If you could conceive one, I'm sure we'd all love to see what it looks like!

Sylvaneth are in a generally poor place in the competitive meta. Vince over at Warhammer Weekly recently released the results of a community poll he administered regarding balance in AOS, and of the approximately 50 Sylvaneth who provided feedback, 95% of them were of the opinion that Sylvaneth have few if any good matchups with other armies. 

That said of course; if you are a tactical genius or dice wizard, I'm sure you could realize success with basically any list. 

The best tournament results Sylvaneth have been able to produce since our new battletome have been Dreadwood glade lists using 6-9 strong Kurnoth Hunter blocks as teleporting mega hammers. I've seen some people posting Heartwood Bow Hunter lists in here, but I haven't seen any formal tournament results from those. Winterleaf and Gnarlroot are the only two other glade people seem to consider viable.

Generally speaking, if we rank the viability of our units in a hierarchy, it currently looks something like this: (1 being most viable, 10 being least)
1. Kurnoth Hunters (Scythe and Sword - best hammer unit in our book by a huge margin)
2. Spite Revenants (specifically in outcasts battalions to fulfill battleline)
3. Tree Revenants (strictly for high mobility and objective play)
4. Dryads (In large blocks as our only true anvil unit)
5. Arch-Revenant (Best force multiplier for Kurnoths)
6. Branchwraith (best cheap wizard)
7. Tree Lord Ancient (Edges out other leader choices because of one-time free Wyldwood, and minor utility as a super basic wizard)
8. Spirit of Durthu (The best bully unit we have, strictly inferior to melee spec Hunters, although more mobile outside of Dreadwood)
9. Drycha (Just edges out Bow Hunters due to her potential offensive output. Incredibly fragile for a Monster. Should only be used as an assassin)
10. Kurnoth Hunters (Bows - more survivable than Drycha, but 4+ to hit combined with random damage rolls and inability to shoot through our own woods makes them very difficult to use within our own mechanics. Over 3x more viable in Heartwood specifically)
11. Branchwych (Incredibly outdated warscroll with counter intuitive spell. She's designed to get close to combat but will die instantly if she does. However, she is an 80 point caster, which is why she isn't our worst unit)
12. Alarielle (Hate to see her down here, but our esteemed God of Life is just not worth 600 points. She was kind of barely good enough as a utility monster before the nerfs to all of her utility abilities. She is absurdly fragile for a 600 point model, has no innate bonuses to cast, has middling melee and a token ranged attack. She costs as much as 1.8 Kroaks, and will never push out even one Lord Kroak's worth of damage.)
13. Treelord (The worst behemoth in the game, in terms of battlefield role. TLAs and Durthu somewhat justify their points cost with utility or potential damage, but the treelord costs just 10 points less than our best units, and offers nothing comparable to their performance besides a 50% chance to stomp an enemy unit to strike last in combat. By the time one of these makes its way into melee, it will be bracketed to impotence, but even if it isn't, its averaging something like 4 wounds per combat to a unit with a 4+ save.)
 

[Mojo]

ty ! very great advice ! 

have u a list for tourament ? i want try it ! ^^

25 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

There is no currently competitive list using Alarielle. If you could conceive one, I'm sure we'd all love to see what it looks like!

Sylvaneth are in a generally poor place in the competitive meta. Vince over at Warhammer Weekly recently released the results of a community poll he administered regarding balance in AOS, and of the approximately 50 Sylvaneth who provided feedback, 95% of them were of the opinion that Sylvaneth have few if any good matchups with other armies. 

That said of course; if you are a tactical genius or dice wizard, I'm sure you could realize success with basically any list. 

The best tournament results Sylvaneth have been able to produce since our new battletome have been Dreadwood glade lists using 6-9 strong Kurnoth Hunter blocks as teleporting mega hammers. I've seen some people posting Heartwood Bow Hunter lists in here, but I haven't seen any formal tournament results from those. Winterleaf and Gnarlroot are the only two other glade people seem to consider viable.

Generally speaking, if we rank the viability of our units in a hierarchy, it currently looks something like this: (1 being most viable, 10 being least)
1. Kurnoth Hunters (Scythe and Sword - best hammer unit in our book by a huge margin)
2. Spite Revenants (specifically in outcasts battalions to fulfill battleline)
3. Tree Revenants (strictly for high mobility and objective play)
4. Dryads (In large blocks as our only true anvil unit)
5. Arch-Revenant (Best force multiplier for Kurnoths)
6. Branchwraith (best cheap wizard)
7. Tree Lord Ancient (Edges out other leader choices because of one-time free Wyldwood, and minor utility as a super basic wizard)
8. Spirit of Durthu (The best bully unit we have, strictly inferior to melee spec Hunters, although more mobile outside of Dreadwood)
9. Drycha (Just edges out Bow Hunters due to her potential offensive output. Incredibly fragile for a Monster. Should only be used as an assassin)
10. Kurnoth Hunters (Bows - more survivable than Drycha, but 4+ to hit combined with random damage rolls and inability to shoot through our own woods makes them very difficult to use within our own mechanics. Over 3x more viable in Heartwood specifically)
11. Branchwych (Incredibly outdated warscroll with counter intuitive spell. She's designed to get close to combat but will die instantly if she does. However, she is an 80 point caster, which is why she isn't our worst unit)
12. Alarielle (Hate to see her down here, but our esteemed God of Life is just not worth 600 points. She was kind of barely good enough as a utility monster before the nerfs to all of her utility abilities. She is absurdly fragile for a 600 point model, has no innate bonuses to cast, has middling melee and a token ranged attack. She costs as much as 1.8 Kroaks, and will never push out even one Lord Kroak's worth of damage.)
13. Treelord (The worst behemoth in the game, in terms of battlefield role. TLAs and Durthu somewhat justify their points cost with utility or potential damage, but the treelord costs just 10 points less than our best units, and offers nothing comparable to their performance besides a 50% chance to stomp an enemy unit to strike last in combat. By the time one of these makes its way into melee, it will be bracketed to impotence, but even if it isn't, its averaging something like 4 wounds per combat to a unit with a 4+ save.)
 

 

[Sleepa]

20 minutes ago, Mojo said:

have u a list for tourament ? i want try it ! ^^

 

You can find the tournament lists used at events in 2019 with Google, but if I had to make up a generally 'good' Sylvaneth list right now, it would look something like this:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Dreadwood
LEADERS
Treelord Ancient (260)
- General
- Command Trait : Paragon of Terror
- Artefact : Jewel of Withering
- Deepwood Spell : Verdurous Harmony
Arch-Revenant (100)
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact : Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell : Throne of Vines
Arch-Revenant (100)
UNITS
20 x Spite-Revenants (200)
10 x Spite-Revenants (120)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (380)
- Scythes
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (380)
- Scythes
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
BATTALIONS
Outcasts (100)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Spiteswarm Hive (50)
TOTAL: 1990/2000 WOUNDS: 132
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 0/400

[Mojo]

how to play it ? 🤖

[Sleepa]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

how to play it ? 🤖

I mean, it's going to depend entirely on the mission and your opponent, but on a super basic level:
1. You want to deploy your Kurnoth Hunters and branchwraith near a Wyldwood on your board edge (Ideally over 30" away from your oppoenent's wizards or unbind characters)
2. You'll want to deploy your Spite Revs to push for objectives and/or screen your heros. Deploy your Tree Revs in your back line corners to screen teleports or deep strikes.
3. You'd ideally cast throne of vines on your branchwraith, then use her turn one bonus spell to cast Spiteswarm Hive
4. You'd also try to deploy your free Wyldwood from the TLA as close to your opponent's non-anvil units as possible (Ranged units, heroes or fragile hammers) plus attempt to cast your summon Wyldwood spell if possible.
5. You'll want to use your Dreadwood CP teleport to teleport one unit of Hunters to a good spot to charge one of your opponents Hammers or non-anvil units
6. You'd use your one tree teleport for your other Kurnoth unit, to get them within 9" as well for a charge attempt
7. You'd advance your spites to claim or pressure objectives or setup to counter charge opponent's frontline.
8. Move your Arch-Revenants up with your spites to try and support your Kurnoths to give them buffs asap.
9. Charge your Kurnoths in and try to cripple your opponent as much as possible.

 

[Mojo]

Ty ! I try it this week 🌳

[Mirage8112]

On 7/30/2020 at 6:07 AM, Landohammer said:

So the battlefield setup rules definitely imply that we would place forests before choosing territories. That is a pretty harsh nerf since you could end up dropping it in your opponent's deployment zone.

Why is that a harsh nerf? I actually think that would be a bonus considering all spellcasting happens in the first turn. And if you’re going “all in” and drop a big forest at max size, it’s almost 18” wide.  Add 6” on either side  to trigger the woods and that a 30” Area Of effect, not to mention a big lump of  irritating, LoS blocking woods right smack in the middle of the enemy’s deployment zone.  

Plus you also have a teleport node on the other side of the board for late game teleporting shenanigans. Personally I’d think the enemy would be a fool for choosing the side with a bunch of woods taking a 1/3 of the deployment zone but stranger things have happened. 

 

[Mirage8112]

@Sleepa

I’ve been mulling your post over for a few days, and while I agree with some of your points, I think perhaps your overstating the case a bit on others.

On 8/7/2020 at 8:19 AM, Sleepa said:

Sylvaneth are in a generally poor place in the competitive meta. Vince over at Warhammer Weekly recently released the results of a community poll he administered regarding balance in AOS, and of the approximately 50 Sylvaneth who provided feedback, 95% of them were of the opinion that Sylvaneth have few if any good matchups with other armies. 

That said of course; if you are a tactical genius or dice wizard, I'm sure you could realize success with basically any list. 

I think this I probably not as deep an insight into the competitiveness of the Sylvaneth as it appears. Sylvaneth are hard to play well. I would say there isn’t a single match-up that Sylvaneth have a lopsided advantage against *before lists are made*.

I put that last bit in bold, because we have a huge amount diversity in the type of toolkit armies we can build. We can build fast, elite armies with low model counts; we can build decentralized lists that flood the board with bodies and multiple low level heroes (basically an army of all chaff); or concentrate all our power into 2-3 heroes/units that can heal 3D3 plus 1D6 AND return destroyed models to the board. 

So far just about everyone plays wargroves (because they are cool), but I’d hesitate to say that Dreadwood and Winterleaf are our only *competitive* builds. I’d also say that tournament results aren’t the best measure of whether or not the army is competitive because Sylvaneth are already underrepresented at tournaments (and not only because they are perceived to be underpowered, but because they are tricky to play, depends a great deal on their ability to get enough woods out, and also just logistically clunky to get  to tournaments: transporting 16 woods is a ******.)   
 

On 8/7/2020 at 8:19 AM, Sleepa said:

The best tournament results Sylvaneth have been able to produce since our new battletome have been Dreadwood glade lists using 6-9 strong Kurnoth Hunter blocks as teleporting mega hammers. I've seen some people posting Heartwood Bow Hunter lists in here, but I haven't seen any formal tournament results from those. Winterleaf and Gnarlroot are the only two other glade people seem to consider viable.

Harvestboon won a major tournament back in June, but literally nobody has talked anything about Harvestboon  before or even after that tournament.  People seem just convinced Sylvaneth don’t win tournaments or that that there are only 1-2 viable ways to play them. This results in people taking variations of the same list over an over, which everyone knows how to play against, which is why people don’t take Sylvaneth to tournaments, which is why Sylvaneth don’t win tournaments.

 

On 8/7/2020 at 8:19 AM, Sleepa said:

There is no currently competitive list using Alarielle. If you could conceive one, I'm sure we'd all love to see what it looks like!

Everything in our book can be built into a competitive list. You just needed to design the list around the playstyle that suits those units best. 

 

On 8/7/2020 at 8:19 AM, Sleepa said:

Generally speaking, if we rank the viability of our units in a hierarchy, it currently looks something like this: (1 being most viable, 10 being least)
1. Kurnoth Hunters (Scythe and Sword - best hammer unit in our book by a huge margin)
2. Spite Revenants (specifically in outcasts battalions to fulfill battleline)
3. Tree Revenants (strictly for high mobility and objective play)
4. Dryads (In large blocks as our only true anvil unit)
5. Arch-Revenant (Best force multiplier for Kurnoths)
6. Branchwraith (best cheap wizard)
7. Tree Lord Ancient (Edges out other leader choices because of one-time free Wyldwood, and minor utility as a super basic wizard)
8. Spirit of Durthu (The best bully unit we have, strictly inferior to melee spec Hunters, although more mobile outside of Dreadwood)
9. Drycha (Just edges out Bow Hunters due to her potential offensive output. Incredibly fragile for a Monster. Should only be used as an assassin)
10. Kurnoth Hunters (Bows - more survivable than Drycha, but 4+ to hit combined with random damage rolls and inability to shoot through our own woods makes them very difficult to use within our own mechanics. Over 3x more viable in Heartwood specifically)
11. Branchwych (Incredibly outdated warscroll with counter intuitive spell. She's designed to get close to combat but will die instantly if she does. However, she is an 80 point caster, which is why she isn't our worst unit)
12. Alarielle (Hate to see her down here, but our esteemed God of Life is just not worth 600 points. She was kind of barely good enough as a utility monster before the nerfs to all of her utility abilities. She is absurdly fragile for a 600 point model, has no innate bonuses to cast, has middling melee and a token ranged attack. She costs as much as 1.8 Kroaks, and will never push out even one Lord Kroak's worth of damage.)
13. Treelord (The worst behemoth in the game, in terms of battlefield role. TLAs and Durthu somewhat justify their points cost with utility or potential damage, but the treelord costs just 10 points less than our best units, and offers nothing comparable to their performance besides a 50% chance to stomp an enemy unit to strike last in combat. By the time one of these makes its way into melee, it will be bracketed to impotence, but even if it isn't, its averaging something like 4 wounds per combat to a unit with a 4+ save.)

    
I appreciate a lot of what you wrote here. And also of it is a fair assessment if you’re focusing your analysis strictly on how many points of damage you can squeeze out compared to the units point cost. 

But aside from that, AoS is not a game that is won or lost based on how many of your opponents models you can kill. AoS is an objective game. You can kill every single model on the opponents side, by the bottom of turn 3, and still lose the game on victory points. Unit’s like Alarielle, Treelords, TLA’s and even the Branchwytch have utility in a list beyond how much damage they can do. 

Treelords, TLA’s and Durthu’s are absolutely essential in a list these days soley because of stomp. Stomp is the only way we have to compete in the activation wars and if you don’t a least 1 (preferably 2) of them in your list your going to have rough time competing with things that have auto-strike first (Flesheater courts) or some other combat ability that changes the activation order (new Aelves for example).

When you start including multiples of these behemoths in your list, things like Alarielle (who auto-heal) Gladewyrm (which autoheals) lifeswarm, and lifewreath become much more attractive. It is entirely possible to set up a 4D3 healing bubble without needing to even make a successful cast. That wont matter all that much if you taking tons of dryads or spite revenants. But when your running 1 TL, A TLA,  a group of Hunters and a supporting caster (say a branchwytch so you can take the household Battalion) You can effectively lock a group of enemy models into a combat they can’t win (because you have behemoths disrupting activation and healing massive amount of damage) all game.

Hunters and dryads are easy go-to units because they can both operate mostly independently. But AoS is a game of synergy and combinations. The fact that hunters value and battlefield role is obvious sometimes obscures the greater (but less obvious) value of the other units in our book. 

[Rhetoric]

I’ve been working on this Gnarlroot list.  No Alarielle.  Leaning into magic and healing.  Looking for advice or constructive feedback.  5 casts per turn with the Throne of Vines Branchwraith on Balewind. 

260 TLA 

-General

-Chalice of Nectar

-Regrowth

 

300 Spirit of Durthu

 

80 Branchwraith

Spiritsong Stave

Verduous Harmony

 

80 Branchwraith

Throne of Vines

 

270 Dryads (30)

80 Tree Revs (5)

80 Tree Revs (5)

190 Kurnoth Hunters (3) Scythes

190 Kurnoth Hunters (3) Scythes

190 Kurnoth Hunters (3) Scythes
 

140 Free Spirits Battalion

50 Spiteswarm Hive

30 Gladewyrm

40 Balewind Vortex

[Craze]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:40 AM, Mirage8112 said:

@Sleepa

Harvestboon won a major tournament back in June, but literally nobody has talked anything about Harvestboon  before or even after that tournament.  People seem just convinced Sylvaneth don’t win tournaments or that that there are only 1-2 viable ways to play them. 

I am curious what major tournament you are talking about, would you mind to elaborate and perhaps even give a link/list inforamtion?

Would really appreciate it!

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, Craze said:

I am curious what major tournament you are talking about, would you mind to elaborate and perhaps even give a link/list inforamtion?

Would really appreciate it!

I will give the link directly, but again, the list composition os likely unimportant. what’s important is that you likely had it in the hands of somebody who knew what he/she was  doing with it:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/06/aos-list-of-the-week-sylvaneth-harvesting-victory.html

[Lanoss]

This has probably been discussed to death. But quickly. 
Which Faction Terrain Rules do we use for deploying our free wyldwood now? 
My best guess is 3” from terrain, 1” from objectives AND 1” away from enemy territory?

All these rules changes have me confused and I feel they need a specific Designer’s Commentary