AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Nixon]

Hi

I usually play with two of the old Wyldwoods and some home made ones, I actually xeroxed my painted Wyldwood bases. 

I think most people can understand that logging six woods around is somwhat a logistic challenge. 

[Walkirriox]

Do we have any news from the point changes of GHB2020??

[Kiekeboe]

1 hour ago, Sputnik said:

I was just wondering how many Sylvaneth players use templates instead of official wyldwoods? I was thinking about getting some of these; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-Of-9-Sylvaneth-Wyldwood-Templates-For-Use-With-Old-Woods-/193096902094 and giving them a simple basing scheme to match my army. Have people who use templates found that most clubs, shops and tournaments are OK with you using them? Do other players object? 

I started out with official woods but after dragging them around a few times I gave up on those. I still needed more sets so instead of buying them I made my own which I combine with real pieces. The homemade ones have Greenstuff World tree stumps where the regular tree would be, to indicate blocking terrain.

I've now made a total of 5 sets of 3 pieces each and I don't even bring the regular woods to games anymore. I've never been to an official tournament but I did have one planned (cancelled because of covid ) and that tournament organizer did approve the use of my woods. I don't think people have issues with them as long as their footprint matches the official ones and you ask before your games/tournaments. 

Your opponents will also thank you for bringing more playable woods.

In case someone is interested in the recipe I used:

Spoiler

 

• Trace original woods on ~0.5cm XPS foam
• Slather the pieces in plasterboard filler to give it texture (any filler or plaster works I guess). Stick a  tree stump in the middle. Add some cast rocks if you're feeling fancy.
• When dry, coat in mod podge to make it durable.
• Paint it.

You can knock out all the sets you need in a day really. 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Kiekeboe

[Kaylethia]

I build one and a half, transported them once, and decided to magnetize the branches. So far, none done and I just keep them at the store.

[Popisdead]

On 6/27/2020 at 3:30 AM, The World Tree said:

Dreadwood is by far the best glade in my experience. Though I do think most of the glades are nicely designed in terms of internal balance

It has a strong list Laurie did well with.  I've used the triple durthu Harvestboon and thought "not amazing, has legs, probably won't go 3-2" and for a lot of people here looking for alternatives to bring I wouldn't ignore it.  Worth trying it out to see if you can make it work more.

Sylvaneth are at the point we are searching for what works going into a tournament or what can I do locally to make my games enjoyable with what I have knowing the book has holes in it. 

On 6/27/2020 at 5:09 AM, Kaylethia said:

Bow Hunters aren't useless (a buddy ran an analysis, and they're roughly equal to 2 Celestar Ballistas in output), the 24 bow Hunter list was hilarious

Bow hunters aren't bad, they just aren't great.  They are fine.  Which is okay.  That list is also not going to dominate.  It will be swingy.  3-6 are useful.  they have good reach and can be effective psychologically.

On 7/1/2020 at 6:49 AM, Landohammer said:

 Its more efficient since you don't need to waste points on throwaway Spite units and battalion taxes, and you don't need to burn CP for deepstrikes  (and can infiltrate multiple units a turn rather than just 1)

I noticed: BW, 3 x 5 Spites, Outcast, 30 Dryads is about the same as BW, 30/10/10, Forest Folks for points.  I think for Dreadwood, it's not a bad idea since most of us probably have 50 Dryads easily.  

On 7/2/2020 at 1:42 PM, Landohammer said:

I would just default to the Spear

The Spear on a NP isn't anything to shake a stick at.  He will provide more kills than you guess and has descent survivability in LC.  Just my experience in the past.

[Kaylethia]

17 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

BW, 30/10/10, Forest Folks for points.  I think for Dreadwood, it's not a bad idea since most of us probably have 50 Dryads easily

I'd add that the Spites or Outcast abilities haven't come up in any of my games with them yet, due to the ease of battleshock immunity (actual or effective) either through bravery, unit size, allegiance abilities, or a CP.

[Popisdead]

6 minutes ago, Kaylethia said:

I'd add that the Spites or Outcast abilities haven't come up in any of my games with them yet, due to the ease of battleshock immunity (actual or effective) either through bravery, unit size, allegiance abilities, or a CP.

Unit size is a big issue.  Let's say we use them for attacks,.. you kinda want Winterleaf and 20 large (so not min).  You want them as chaff.  Do 5 Spites or 10 Ungors better.  I would rather my chaff be slightly better at dying slower.   Let's look at price... or not.  I kinda think Spites aren't in a good spot to be honest.

[Landohammer]

10 hours ago, Walkirriox said:

Do we have any news from the point changes of GHB2020??

We are one of the last factions without leaked points yet. Its driving me insane lol.

The only thing I have found so far was a hand typed "leak" that said that KH were going up 20, Spites up 10, Archie up 20, and Durthu up 60 and I just laughed it off because there is no way that its accurate. 

Sylvaneth codex was printed before GHB went to print so we should have our point updates reflected in the book and not in an errata. So I'm only trusting photos at this point. 

 

 

[Ravenrei]

10 hours ago, Walkirriox said:

Do we have any news from the point changes of GHB2020??

Not many changes, Drycha went down to same lvl as Druthu and Kurnonth Hunters (all variants) went down by the bare minimum amount. No changes to other units, batallions or spells.

 

[Craze]

27 minutes ago, Ravenrei said:

Not many changes, Drycha went down to same lvl as Druthu and Kurnonth Hunters (all variants) went down by the bare minimum amount. No changes to other units, batallions or spells.

 

Where did you get this information?

[Ravenrei]

12 minutes ago, Craze said:

Where did you get this information?

From  the book.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Ravenrei

[scrubyandwells]

20 minutes ago, Ravenrei said:

From  the book.

So...

Drycha 300

All Kurnoth 190

?

And no other changes?

Appreciate the info.

Edited July 6, 2020 by scrubyandwells

[Ravenrei]

2 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

So...

Drycha 300

All Kurnoth 190

?

And no other changes?

Appreciate the info.

Yup, that’s all.

[Walkirriox]

11 hours ago, Ravenrei said:

Not many changes, Drycha went down to same lvl as Druthu and Kurnonth Hunters (all variants) went down by the bare minimum amount. No changes to other units, batallions or spells.

 

Disappointment over 9000.... I expected point reduction for TLA, regular TL and tree revs, so they would become a goot choice to play, I don't think Drycha and Kurnoths were in a bad spot, this encourages more Kurnoth spam lists.

[rosa]

It really proves that GW is not aware of what they are doing in regards of balancing.

I agree, these point reductions have the completely wrong focus...

[Kaylethia]

I'd say problems with Sylvaneth don't stem from our points, but rather a playstyle issue in the current tournament metagame, as well as feelbads from 1.0 days and people overcorrecting for past "sins" like covering the table in woods, congalines, hurricanum + hunters in old Gnarlroot, etc.

Regular TL is basically a unit of hunters with a different dropoff and a different recovery mechanic. 

Tree-Revenants are already a valid (if narrow) choice.

And I think TLA could stay the same but gain a second cast. 

 

We could do more with a few changes to some warscrolls than points changes.

[Walkirriox]

52 minutes ago, Kaylethia said:

I'd say problems with Sylvaneth don't stem from our points, but rather a playstyle issue in the current tournament metagame, as well as feelbads from 1.0 days and people overcorrecting for past "sins" like covering the table in woods, congalines, hurricanum + hunters in old Gnarlroot, etc.

Regular TL is basically a unit of hunters with a different dropoff and a different recovery mechanic. 

Tree-Revenants are already a valid (if narrow) choice.

And I think TLA could stay the same but gain a second cast. 

 

We could do more with a few changes to some warscrolls than points changes.

I completely agree with all you exposed. But the only update we will get until the new book comes are points changes or a new unit. We have to play around with the warscrolls we have for a looong while... 
At least GW could reduce the points for suboptimal units in order to see some (tournament) play. 

Also battalions point drop could also help in some cases.

[Grimbok]

We need warscroll changes, and many other changes (wyldwoods etc). But for now, point drops could help. But nope...

 

It’s a joke. They have no idea...and playtesters, are they not supposed to help here? Oh, I forgot, playtesters don’t play Sylvaneth, only top level competitive ****** armies...

Can’t they do basic math. Blightkings down to 140 (of all nurgle units, these were fine, many other units needed to drop) and Kurnoths (which is our best unit) is 190.... Blightkings are 6,7 points per wound with 4+ save and often 5+ dpr...and with good damage output and sweet batallion. Kurnoths are 12,7 points per wound. It’s double the points for comparable units (elite units)! 

At least Stormcast got som slight point reductions, that adds up. Won’t help them at top level, but will in casual games...

I was hoping for some considerable point reductions to Sylvaneth, to at least have a chance in casual games...and maybe try alternative wyldwood system...but no. Back to Living City and Stormcast...

 

 

Grimbok

[Grimbok]

And the batallions.... 140 for Free Spirits...come on. A drop to 80 would help a lot...it’s not worth more than that. The start tax is massive.

 

Outcasts are Ok, but Forest Folk could use a point drop also. Same with household. 

 

 

Grimbok

Edited July 7, 2020 by Grimbok

[Mirage8112]

These point changes are all great, even if its only to two units. I was expecting a drop to Drycha (20 pts is fair) and the drop to hunters is a nice little bonus (Enough to maybe eek out another command point or an extra endless spell). 

It not enough of a point change to actually change how we build our lists, but generally makes everything function more efficiently.  It also shows GW is pretty happy overall with how our army plays . I’d agree, were in the best shape we’ve ever been  (if you discount that brief period where we were super OP).

[Grimbok]

GW is pretty happy...maybe, but not many players. So few Sylvanteth left, almost gone from tournaments and also locally...

 

 

Grimbok

[Falkman]

I've recently started the game with Sylvaneth and I greatly enjoy playing them. I love both Drycha and Hunters so seeing discounts to both those is great. I don't really care about tournament play (when I want to compete seriously in a minis game there are plenty of them MUCH better suited for competitive play so I play those instead) so just getting some nudges to help in casual play with friends looks perfect to me!

[Pennydude]

I know I haven't posted in a while but still following!  Even as someone that loves Drycha and owns 21 Kurnoths, if the points rumors are true, it's a slap in the face to what the actual problems are with the army.  Like others said, the issue wasn't the points (except for Alarielle, not even close to being worth 600).  It's some of the warscrolls, abilities, and allegiance traits.  Hard to use the one major allegiance ability when you can't get woods down.  I'd love to see the following:

Some tweak to make it easier to teleport thru the woods such as wholly within 9" or even be able to set up less than 9" away from the enemy (like 6").
Treelord variants stomping on a 3+.
Dryads getting the -1 to hit when wholly within X" of a Treelord variant.
I would say let us see through our own woods but that could put Bow spam over the edge.
 

 

[Xil]

I just quit the game to have a break. Playing in a semi competitive meta locally. The amount of bullshitery added up to an unbearable level. 

There is just no way I can have fun with this army against competitive and competent players with Armys like Seraphon, Fyreslayers, FEC and Tzeench... Glad there are no Lumineth yet

[Landohammer]

It is strange that our two most competitive units got point drops when units like TLA, Branchwych, and most of our endless spells rarely see play. 

I don't think Sylvaneth were playtested. These two drops are more than likely concessions to keep the Sylvaneth base happy.

But TBH, our book can't really be fixed with just point adjustments. There are a lot of problems that can only be fixed with additional units or widespread warscroll changes. So this was probably the best we could hope for. 

.