AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Fatbudda]

Hi all, I'm new to AoS and Sylvaneth but 'm looking at putting together a list for an escalation league once this has all blown over. I was hoping for some advice on where I should start/how I should progress! The rules are:

Points limits; 400pts, 600pts, 800pts and 1k;
Models must be in each list once they've been selected; and, 
Warlord needs to selected at the start but they get an extra point for every unit they kill.

The list I'm thinking of running is:

(Gnarlroot) 

400pts: TLA (General, Nutured by Magic, Chalice of Nectar); Regroth, X2 min spite-revs

600pts; Branchwraith, min spite and tree rev

800pts; 3 Kurnoth with scythes 

1k; 3 Kurnoth with scythes

I was thinking of going: Branchwraith (General; spellsinger + spirit song stave); throne of thorns), X2 spite revs, +3 Kurnoth at 400pts. Which I think might be stronger at 400pts but I think that might leave me weaker in higher points levels having to rely on my wraith as my general? 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Fatbudda

[Obeisance]

Hey,

My wife and I are playing in a doubles tournament.. later.. when the world stops trying to kill us. I'll be running Bonereapers.

She really likes Sylvaneth, but doesn't play AOS. I actually know <0 about the faction. I'm thinking of buying 1000pts worth of stuff and painting it for her to use. I mean, I've probably got the time.

The Start Collecting is a Treelord, Branchwych and 16 Dryads (why not 20 ffs?) and like 500pts.

If you were going to play 1000pts at a decent competitive level, what would you run? What subfaction?

[Nixon]

For a 1000 point list i would go for something like this. (Based on my collection)

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (260)
Branchwraith (80)
Branchwraith (80)

Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
10 x Dryads (100)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatswords

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 67
 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Nixon

[Obeisance]

Thanks for that.

What glade/item?

Also, do you need a Wildwood? I'll have to get a copy of the book.

[Nixon]

10 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Thanks for that.

What glade/item?

Also, do you need a Wildwood? I'll have to get a copy of the book.

I think you should get the book and see what glade will suit your playstyle. But you cant go wrong with Gnarlroot. With 3 Heroes and a small army you will get at lot of millage out of the re-rolls of 1 for attacks.

I would get two Wildwoods or find a good proxy. 

[Pennydude]

3 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Hey,

My wife and I are playing in a doubles tournament.. later.. when the world stops trying to kill us. I'll be running Bonereapers.

She really likes Sylvaneth, but doesn't play AOS. I actually know <0 about the faction. I'm thinking of buying 1000pts worth of stuff and painting it for her to use. I mean, I've probably got the time.

The Start Collecting is a Treelord, Branchwych and 16 Dryads (why not 20 ffs?) and like 500pts.

If you were going to play 1000pts at a decent competitive level, what would you run? What subfaction?

My doubles list is super cheeky but I partnered up with Beastclaw Raiders for a small tournament and we went 3-0 to win beating Khorne/Seraphon, the other BCR/Sylvaneth, and Stormcast/Cities (Hallowheart).

Heartwood Glade
Branchwraith (80)
-General, Throne of Vines spell, Horn of the Consort artefact

3x Kurnoth Hunters w/Bows (200)
3x Kurnoth Hunters w/Bows (200)
3x Kurnoth Hunters w/Bows (200)

20x Dryads (200)
5x Tree-Revenants (80)

Balewind Vortex (40)

1000pts, 75 wounds

The idea is that you get 18 shots at a 35" threat range that can re-roll all hit rolls.  My partner would run up the board while I provided covering fire and some bodies on objectives.   Even though Bows aren't great in combat, they can take and hold objectives just like the others.  Had to run a group of them up the board to help hold an objective and because of that, we had more models on the center objective (Shifting Objectives).   Against Khorne/Seraphon, we took down a Bloodthirster on the first turn.  Against Hallowheart/SCE, I brought the Hurricanum down to 2 wounds (bad deployment on my end, couldn't shoot with everyone) but that neutered their entire game.  The other Sylvaneth player literally brought the same list as me except for their endless spell (Vengeful Skullroot).  I was planning on running my exact list in the 4-person team event at Adepticon before it got canceled.

[Landohammer]

4 hours ago, Nixon said:

I was just wondering if there are any good listes that does not need the Wyldwoods to compete or are fun to play?

Absolutely. Most lists retain 95% of their functionality without a forest. However they are free to include in your list so I have never seen a Sylvaneth player without one.

Additionally, there are some units that lose most of their value without a forest model. Branchwraith and Treelord Ancients come to mind. 

If money is the concern, then consider cutting the Citadel Wood footprint out of cardboard or paper. But given the $$ cost of some of our main units (Spites and Hunters most notably) the cost of a single forest is relatively minor. 

[Landohammer]

6 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Hey,

My wife and I are playing in a doubles tournament.. later.. when the world stops trying to kill us. I'll be running Bonereapers.

She really likes Sylvaneth, but doesn't play AOS. I actually know <0 about the faction. I'm thinking of buying 1000pts worth of stuff and painting it for her to use. I mean, I've probably got the time.

The Start Collecting is a Treelord, Branchwych and 16 Dryads (why not 20 ffs?) and like 500pts.

If you were going to play 1000pts at a decent competitive level, what would you run? What subfaction?

Quick bit of advice with start collecting boxes.

- Convert the Branchwych to a Branchwraith. Just replace the arms with spare dryads bits and don't glue on the bug.  That way you can  summon your leftover dryads with the Branchwraith spells. I would rather summon 6 dryads than try to get any use out of the Branchwych spell.

-Alternatively you can use your leftover dryad bits (along with any extra 32mm bases you have) to make 4 extra dryads to stretch to 20. 

-At low points, Harvestboon is a solid glade since it makes Durthu extremely hard to deal with. So consider building your Treelord model as a Durthu.

If you can't decide on a Glade, just default to Winterleaf. Its probably our best one and is definitely the easiest to use. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Landohammer

[Obeisance]

Okay, thanks for the replies. I'll look into what stuff does.

The general consensus I've gotten from my local community is that Sylvaneth is terrible and don't even bother. Are they really that dire?

[The World Tree]

17 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Okay, thanks for the replies. I'll look into what stuff does.

The general consensus I've gotten from my local community is that Sylvaneth is terrible and don't even bother. Are they really that dire?

No. Only avoid if you really want to compete a tournaments. If you like the themem and the models, then it is great. Pretty much every unit has value and a variety of the glades too. The biggest downside is the terrain issue.

[TheGrayKing]

I've been a long time fan of the Sylvaneth models and I'm now finally building an army, any thoughts on my list would be welcome. The list comes out to exactly 2000, I know it may not be the most competitive list but I'm curious as to how everyone thinks it'll be able to do. The game plan is to sit the 2x3 BowNoths with the Branchwraith near the first Wyldwood to snipe with re-rolls while also having a druid making factory while the Branchwych, Archie support the 6 ScytheNoth and the Durthu while they wreak havoc across the board.

Heartwood Wargrove

Arch-Revenant

Branchwraith - Horn of the Consort, Throne of Vines

Branchwych - Verderous Harmony

Spirit of Durthu - General - Legacy of Valour, Ghyrstrike

30x Druids

5x Tree-Revenants

5x Tree-Revenants

6x Kurnoth Hunters w/Scythes

3x Kurnoth Hunters w/Bows

3x Kurnoth Hunters w/Bows

Free Spirits Battalion

Balewind Vortex

Gladewyrm

 

[Craze]

Hi folks,

I have a couple of questions, as I am right now once more preparing for a little tournament with friends (I pray to Allarielle und Kurnoth that Covid19 will not cancel it 🙄 )

How do people play Dreadwood? I f I look at everything I guess it usually means: Give one caster Spiritsong Stave + Throne of Vines, cast ToV/Hive, hope you do not roll a 1 for your Hunters, teleport the large Hunter blob, pray for the 7" charge. This looks kind of unreliable to  me, as you are very dependent on one succesful spellcast (Hive) and on this one charge (potentially 2-3, depending on how your regular Wyldwood teleporting plays out). Is there anything I miss here, or am I totally wrong in the estimation of the most useful use of teleportation as an alpha strike tool , because the main use is teleporting screens or teleporting units onto an unguarded objective or some other case?

 

Has anyone tried a gladeless approach with e.g. a Durthu with Warsinger? Compared to the above mentioned Dreadwood, you would lose the very flexible teleporting option but would gain more reliability on your Wylwood teleport units to get off their charges. Additionally, as the Jewel of Withering is imho not a S-Tier artifact, we would gain access to two artifacts of our choice (if we take a batallion, what most people tend to do, I guess), so in the above mentioned example, we could give Durthu Ghyrstrike + Spiritsong Stave on a caster to make that Hive casting more reliable, or if you do not want to take Durthu, we could give a TLA the Vesperal Gem, to guarantee Kurnoth Hunter revives.  

 

Opinions?

Edited April 16, 2020 by Craze

[Landohammer]

13 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Okay, thanks for the replies. I'll look into what stuff does.

The general consensus I've gotten from my local community is that Sylvaneth is terrible and don't even bother. Are they really that dire?

We are probably the softest 2019 codex by a large margin, but I don't personally think we are terrible. As with any mid-level army, you have to really practice the army quite a bit to nail it down. It is not an army that you can just pickup and win with similar to Slaanesh, OBR, Tzeentch, etc

 I have taken Sylvaneth to 7+ tournaments in the last 12 months and have an average of 3-2 with most of my losses being to pre-nerf Slaanesh and Nagash.  And I don't consider myself  a particularly good player lol. 

We also have the advantage of being outside of the meta, so many competitive players just don't factor us into their lists. Thats one of the reasons I place Dreadwood Glade so high. It trips up a lot of meta lists.

8 hours ago, TheGrayKing said:

I've been a long time fan of the Sylvaneth models and I'm now finally building an army, any thoughts on my list would be welcome. The list comes out to exactly 2000, I know it may not be the most competitive list but I'm curious as to how everyone thinks it'll be able to do. The game plan is to sit the 2x3 BowNoths with the Branchwraith near the first Wyldwood to snipe with re-rolls while also having a druid making factory while the Branchwych, Archie support the 6 ScytheNoth and the Durthu while they wreak havoc across the board.

Heartwood Wargrove

Arch-Revenant

Branchwraith - Horn of the Consort, Throne of Vines

Branchwych - Verderous Harmony

Spirit of Durthu - General - Legacy of Valour, Ghyrstrike

30x Druids

5x Tree-Revenants

5x Tree-Revenants

6x Kurnoth Hunters w/Scythes

3x Kurnoth Hunters w/Bows

3x Kurnoth Hunters w/Bows

Free Spirits Battalion

Balewind Vortex

Gladewyrm

 

Looks like a fun list. The Heartwood Bows can be powerful and I like that your list is outside of the box. But if you wanted to max out this list's competitiveness then you should consider Winterleaf.  You are sacrificing exploding 6s and the ability to fight twice to gives those two bow units rerolls. Exploding 6's on Hunters and Dryads is really good and Durthu being able to fight twice can end games. 

7 hours ago, Craze said:

Hi folks,

I have a couple of questions, as I am right now once more preparing for a little tournament with friends (I pray to Allarielle und Kurnoth that Covid19 will not cancel it 🙄 )

How do people play Dreadwood? I f I look at everything I guess it usually means: Give one caster Spiritsong Stave + Throne of Vines, cast ToV/Hive, hope you do not roll a 1 for your Hunters, teleport the large Hunter blob, pray for the 7" charge. This looks kind of unreliable to  me, as you are very dependent on one succesful spellcast (Hive) and on this one charge (potentially 2-3, depending on how your regular Wyldwood teleporting plays out). Is there anything I miss here, or am I totally wrong in the estimation of the most useful use of teleportation as an alpha strike tool , because the main use is teleporting screens or teleporting units onto an unguarded objective or some other case?

 

Has anyone tried a gladeless approach with e.g. a Durthu with Warsinger? Compared to the above mentioned Dreadwood, you would lose the very flexible teleporting option but would gain more reliability on your Wylwood teleport units to get off their charges. Additionally, as the Jewel of Withering is imho not a S-Tier artifact, we would gain access to two artifacts of our choice (if we take a batallion, what most people tend to do, I guess), so in the above mentioned example, we could give Durthu Ghyrstrike + Spiritsong Stave on a caster to make that Hive casting more reliable, or if you do not want to take Durthu, we could give a TLA the Vesperal Gem, to guarantee Kurnoth Hunter revives.  

 

Opinions?

That is the correct way to play Dreadwood. If you keep your Spiritsong caster out of range of unbinds, then you actually have a pretty good chance of getting the Spiteswarm off first turn. I personally prefer to use Alarielle since she can cast Thone + Hive without the need for an item. She also synnergizes well with the teleport since she can use it on herself as a character. 

So note that Kurnoth Hunters are the primary choice for teleport since they can get the charge reroll command ability despite being away from characters. So ideally you would have a rerollable 6 inch charge. (hive is +3). And even if you fail that charge, you still have 6 Hunters in your opponents backfield which has value in itself. Extra points if you teleport them in cover, so they have a 3+ rerollable save if they fail their charge. 

I would NEVER run a list without a Glade. The command trait/artefact freedom does not come anywhere close to matching the buffs of the top glades. If you want to buff your charges outside of Hive then consider Chronomantic Cogs. 

[Alessio]

I see the awakened wyldwood is composed by 3 elements with different sizes.

Is it legal to mix and match those making woods of 3 small elements or 5 big elements etc. ?

[Landohammer]

3 hours ago, Alessio said:

I see the awakened wyldwood is composed by 3 elements with different sizes.

Is it legal to mix and match those making woods of 3 small elements or 5 big elements etc. ?

I think as long as you stick to the contents of 2 kits (aka 2 big, 2 med, 2 small ) per forest, then you should be fine. So you would be ok fielding 2 big + 1 medium pieces as your starting forest. However this would significantly hamper your later forests, unless you just had loads of forest kits to cherry pick from.

But to be honest, this has limited applications. If you need the biggest forests possible, just field 2 full kits (6 pieces) per forest. This is a huge foot print.  

[Alessio]

14 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

I think as long as you stick to the contents of 2 kits (aka 2 big, 2 med, 2 small ) per forest, then you should be fine. So you would be ok fielding 2 big + 1 medium pieces as your starting forest. However this would significantly hamper your later forests, unless you just had loads of forest kits to cherry pick from.

But to be honest, this has limited applications. If you need the biggest forests possible, just field 2 full kits (6 pieces) per forest. This is a huge foot print.  

Thanks for your answers! So as long the woods are mixed heterogeneously we don't have problems

[Pennydude]

I’ve had woods of only three small pieces before and larger ones of just the big and medium sized pieces. What pieces you use should not matter as long as it forms a connected circle and within placement parameters.

[Landohammer]

16 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

I’ve had woods of only three small pieces before and larger ones of just the big and medium sized pieces. What pieces you use should not matter as long as it forms a connected circle and within placement parameters.

Personally, if you purchased, built and transported 6 full kits then you probably deserve to field them however you want lol. 

I have been to tournaments where forest placement was either impossible or useless due to terrain and objectives. (Duality of Death, Scorched Earth and Battle for the Pass are notorious) So the 3x small pieces may actually be preferable to asking for permission to nudge terrain. (which I hate doing bc it feels gamey) 

[Craze]

15 hours ago, Landohammer said:

That is the correct way to play Dreadwood. If you keep your Spiritsong caster out of range of unbinds, then you actually have a pretty good chance of getting the Spiteswarm off first turn. I personally prefer to use Alarielle since she can cast Thone + Hive without the need for an item. She also synnergizes well with the teleport since she can use it on herself as a character. 

So note that Kurnoth Hunters are the primary choice for teleport since they can get the charge reroll command ability despite being away from characters. So ideally you would have a rerollable 6 inch charge. (hive is +3). And even if you fail that charge, you still have 6 Hunters in your opponents backfield which has value in itself. Extra points if you teleport them in cover, so they have a 3+ rerollable save if they fail their charge. 

Thanks for your answer.

When you say you played Sylvaneth in a couple of tournaments, did you play Dreadwood or Winterleaf?

[Fatbudda]

On 4/15/2020 at 10:30 AM, Fatbudda said:

Hi all, I'm new to AoS and Sylvaneth but 'm looking at putting together a list for an escalation league once this has all blown over. I was hoping for some advice on where I should start/how I should progress! The rules are:

Points limits; 400pts, 600pts, 800pts and 1k;
Models must be in each list once they've been selected; and, 
Warlord needs to selected at the start but they get an extra point for every unit they kill.

The list I'm thinking of running is:

(Gnarlroot) 

400pts: TLA (General, Nutured by Magic, Chalice of Nectar); Regroth, X2 min spite-revs

600pts; Branchwraith, min spite and tree rev

800pts; 3 Kurnoth with scythes 

1k; 3 Kurnoth with scythes

I was thinking of going: Branchwraith (General; spellsinger + spirit song stave); throne of thorns), X2 spite revs, +3 Kurnoth at 400pts. Which I think might be stronger at 400pts but I think that might leave me weaker in higher points levels having to rely on my wraith as my general? 

Further to this I think I'm going to go with the following and I'd really appreciate some feed back as well as suggested  Wargrove, I'm leaning Gnarlroot at the moment because I feel like I can get some good mileage out of it at a low points level:

400pts

 TLA (General, Nurtured by Magic, Chalice of Nectar); Regrowth

5 Spite-revenants

5 Tree-revenants

 

600pts

+ 3 Kurnoth with Scythes

 

800pts

+ Branchwraith

+ 5 Spite-revenants 

+5 Spite-revnenants or spite swarm (really interested in peoples opinion on this)

 

1kpts

+3 Kurnoth

[Landohammer]

7 hours ago, Craze said:

Thanks for your answer.

When you say you played Sylvaneth in a couple of tournaments, did you play Dreadwood or Winterleaf?

Your welcome!

I switch between the two, but about 70% of the time I use Winterleaf. However I did take Dreadwood to the biggest GT of the year in my region and went 3-2, losing twice to pre-nerf Slaanesh. 

I enjoy Dreadwood because the teleports are so much fun and I usually bring tons of Spites to capitalize on their buff. But Winterleaf lists are a lot more flexible and reliable. Dreadwood lists have to pay the Hive+multi caster tax which can get expensive. 

[Popisdead]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:29 AM, Landohammer said:

That is the correct way to play Dreadwood.

Do you take the/a maxed spite battalion for Dreadwood?   What kind of list build is Dreadwood?  I only have 10 Spites and 70 Dryads so I uh... heh tend to not pay much attention as I play with what I have.

[Landohammer]

 

35 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Do you take the/a maxed spite battalion for Dreadwood?   What kind of list build is Dreadwood?  I only have 10 Spites and 70 Dryads so I uh... heh tend to not pay much attention as I play with what I have.

Here is my logic. The outcast battalion is only mandatory if you are fielding Dreadwood without Alarielle. But really any battalion will do. Outcast isn't necessarily the best, its just the cheapest. Forest Folk will work fine for your models. 

The reason is because you want a multi-caster so you can Thrones + Hive. So you need a battalion to unlock the Spiritsong Stave. However, the extra CP from the battalion is also extremely useful because it allows you bank it for when you fail the 6+ charge on the Hunters. (and you will) 

Personally, when I field the Outcast Battalion, I prefer to field 3 units of 10. 

Based on the models you have mentioned, the below lists would be a good starting point. 

Forest Folk Battalion

Branchwraith (stave)

Durthu or TLA (Jewel)

30 Dryads

30 Dryads

10 Dryads

As many Kurnoth Hunters as you own

Note that the success of a Dreadwood list lies in the strength of the units you teleport. So if you don't have Hunters, then you may want to consider another Glade for now. 

[Popisdead]

57 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Here is my logic. The outcast battalion is only mandatory if you are fielding Dreadwood without Alarielle. But really any battalion will do. Outcast isn't necessarily the best, its just the cheapest. Forest Folk will work fine for your models. 

The reason is because you want a multi-caster so you can Thrones + Hive. So you need a battalion to unlock the Spiritsong Stave. However, the extra CP from the battalion is also extremely useful because it allows you bank it for when you fail the 6+ charge on the Hunters. (and you will) 

Personally, when I field the Outcast Battalion, I prefer to field 3 units of 10. 

Based on the models you have mentioned, the below lists would be a good starting point. 

Forest Folk Battalion

Branchwraith (stave)

Durthu or TLA (Jewel)

30 Dryads

30 Dryads

10 Dryads

As many Kurnoth Hunters as you own

Note that the success of a Dreadwood list lies in the strength of the units you teleport. So if you don't have Hunters, then you may want to consider another Glade for now. 

I have 6 Sythes, 6 Swords, 3 bows.  I also have Alarielle but I'm not good at using her.  I guess her thing is is multi caster.

I sat around a bit after thinking the key seems to be the teleporting and possibly combining each teleport with a big guy who can navigate the realm root and maybe add a stomp.

Thanks kindly.

[Landohammer]

24 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I have 6 Sythes, 6 Swords, 3 bows.  I also have Alarielle but I'm not good at using her.  I guess her thing is is multi caster.

I sat around a bit after thinking the key seems to be the teleporting and possibly combining each teleport with a big guy who can navigate the realm root and maybe add a stomp.

Thanks kindly.

Sounds great! 

Yea the pros and cons of Alarielle can be debated for ages. I personally think she shines with dreadwood due to the reliable casting of Hive and the ability to self teleport.

But she is also insanely fast if she gets the Hive buff. At top bracket she becomes Movement 19 and +3 to charge, and note her summon occurs at the end of movement. I have had her and her summon charge units 30 inches away on turn 1.