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AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


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9 hours ago, HollowHills said:

1) do you think this is a good strat? The risk of a squig charge and a double turn is fairly high, but I feel like it's worth it to get ahead on objectives. 

2) If I attempt to summon the wood with the branchwych I have a 70% chance of success (assuming I position to avoid unbinds turn 1). If I cast throne with the wraith and then wood the chance is closer to 95%. Although I forgoe the chance of dryads. 

3) option would be to drop durthu and take a TLA. This gives insurance if the spell fails, but is one less threat on the board. 

Thoughts? 

 

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1) If you for that strategy, drop Durthu and take a block of 30 Dryads

2) Situational: you might have to choose depending on the deployment. Both options are good to me, though I tend to make woods ASAP.

3) TLA is indeed 300 points for one automatic wood, buuuuuut.... that is pretty much it.

On an other note, I would regroup your 2 units of 3 Hunters ;)

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You’re entitled to your opinion. But I’ve got plenty of experience using everything you claim isn’t a viable unit. I’ve been playing Sylvaneth since before our Battletome dropped through every iterati

I can't wait for the box... So I decided to make my own kitbashed Arch-Revenant! VID_20190430_181542.mp4

I’ve played the Drycha/Ancient dreadwood combo for ages now, and it’s super viable at 2k. Since I’ve finished painting up Alarielle, I’m thinking of amending my list a bit and trying the Alarielle+Dur

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15 hours ago, Pigey said:

If I remember correctly one of them goes

DREADWOOD

Arch Revenant with Dreadwood trait and artifact 100

Branchwraith with Spiritsong Stave, Throne of Vines 80

Branchwraith 80

10 Spites 120

5 Spites 60

5 Spites 60

30 Dryads 270

9 Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes 600

6 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatswords 400

Outcast Battalion 100

Spiteswarm Hive 50

Extra command point 50

1970pts

 

You can watch a game here (extremely well played):

 

Pigey,

Thank you very much for this! 

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Hi Everyone.

After some advice on this list

Allegiance: Order
Alarielle the Everqueen (660)
Branchwraith (80)
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatswords
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
Outcasts (100)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91

It's pretty basic. Has all the staples, outcasts battalion, 6 and 3 hunters. couple of big heroes. 
My problem is this.... 
The battalion is kind of wasted because I only have 1 hero who can take an artifact, and they have to take the grove one first. 
Both winterleaf and dreadwood artifacts are not that great on a branchwraith whos just sitting summoning dryads. 
But.... if it try to squeeze in an Arch Rev, then I can't fit the battalion and then don't get the extra artifact anyway. 

I'm not sure how to go about optimizing this. 
I can probably drop Drycha for 1-2 heroes and some more troops. 
I don't really want to buy any more hunters (already have another 3 for Alarielle to summon potentially). 

is Alarielle OK with 2 small heroes, or is it better to take 2 big ones as insurance? 

I'd also like to be able to fit in 1 unit of Tree Revs for objective grabbing late game, again difficult with the battalion there, but one option is to simply swap the battalion for tree revs (and have 30 pts left over for an endless spell perhaps). 
Of course, once you drop the battalion, you can swap spite revs for tree revs too.


I should mention that the upcoming tournament is played in Ghyran and all wizards will know the whole Ghyran spell lore. That's why I wanted to go a bit caster heavy (and would love to squeeze in an emerald lifeswarm too) but I dunno if that's overkill. 

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So after years of thinking Alarielle looked amazing  and recently getting into cities (living city to be exact), then playing a game against her and seeing her all painted in person and I needed a big monster to run alongside my cities and wouldn't you know it they had one just sitting on the shelf after all this time...

 

Well a few weeks of quibbling and fretting about whether or not I could risk putting paint on her with my... average at best skill level I finally broke down and did it.

 

I'm not sure about her spear (painted to represent the 4 seasons) and could maybe stand to touch up the bone in places, and of course I still need to add the wings, but all in all I'm actually pretty darn happy with how she turned out. I've never stressed so hard in my life as I did when I dumped super glue on the face of a $100+ dollar model to glue a skull mask on (to match my swampy sylvaneth).

20191111_221913.jpg

20191111_221826_006.jpg

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6 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

Hi Everyone.

After some advice on this list

Allegiance: Order
Alarielle the Everqueen (660)
Branchwraith (80)
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatswords
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
Outcasts (100)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91

The two behemoths are maybe too much. I think you are going to miss some bodies for your objectives.. I would either drop Alarielle or Drycha and put bodies in the list (and more Hunters, but that, you do not want 😛 )

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2 hours ago, The Red King said:

So after years of thinking Alarielle looked amazing  and recently getting into cities (living city to be exact), then playing a game against her and seeing her all painted in person and I needed a big monster to run alongside my cities and wouldn't you know it they had one just sitting on the shelf after all this time...

 

Well a few weeks of quibbling and fretting about whether or not I could risk putting paint on her with my... average at best skill level I finally broke down and did it.

 

I'm not sure about her spear (painted to represent the 4 seasons) and could maybe stand to touch up the bone in places, and of course I still need to add the wings, but all in all I'm actually pretty darn happy with how she turned out. I've never stressed so hard in my life as I did when I dumped super glue on the face of a $100+ dollar model to glue a skull mask on (to match my swampy sylvaneth).

20191111_221913.jpg

20191111_221826_006.jpg

I would be very interested in seeing the rest of your swampy sylvaneth. 

That's what I'm aiming for now with my new army. Lots of dark swampy things 

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15 hours ago, Pigey said:

3) TLA is indeed 300 points for one automatic wood, buuuuuut.... that is pretty much it.

Alternatively, the TLA is a solid support caster with a range of useful abilities that work best right behind the front line, and enough durability to stand there and make use of them. A TLA isn’t a heavy hitter (although it hits heavily enough for a second line caster), but it is very far from just being a 300 point Wyldwood dispenser. 

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10 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

Hi Everyone.

After some advice on this list

Drop the smaller unit of hunters. If you really need 3 Sword hunters then Alarielle can summon them, but you’ll probably only need the 6 Scythes. You can only teleport one unit of hunters per turn through Wyldwoods, so unless you are planning to take Dreadwood and use command points on a secondary unit of hunters (or tertiary if Alarielle summons more somewhere useful) then they’ll never see action. You can spend the 200 points on a range of alternatives. 

You absolutely don’t want the Outcast battalion unless you’ve got an extra hero. Depending on how you spend your points from the hunters, you might want to just buy the command point for 50 and put the other 50 points towards something else instead.

Having an extra artefact is nice in theory, but what are you actually planning to give the Branchwraith? Spiritsong Stave is a popular choice, but works best if you give her Throne of Vines as a spell. In which case Alarielle won’t be able to use it and you’ll be undercutting your best caster. You should give more thought to specific spells and artefacts before deciding whether you want an artefact or would benefit more from another caster. 

On which note, if you want to go caster heavy, have you considered Gnarlroot rather than Winterleaf or Dreadwood? The Gnarlroot Chalice of Nectar is very effective on a Branchwraith to boost her casting without needing to worry about an extra battalion artefact. 

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11 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

Drop the smaller unit of hunters. If you really need 3 Sword hunters then Alarielle can summon them, but you’ll probably only need the 6 Scythes. You can only teleport one unit of hunters per turn through Wyldwoods, so unless you are planning to take Dreadwood and use command points on a secondary unit of hunters (or tertiary if Alarielle summons more somewhere useful) then they’ll never see action. You can spend the 200 points on a range of alternatives. 

You absolutely don’t want the Outcast battalion unless you’ve got an extra hero. Depending on how you spend your points from the hunters, you might want to just buy the command point for 50 and put the other 50 points towards something else instead.

Having an extra artefact is nice in theory, but what are you actually planning to give the Branchwraith? Spiritsong Stave is a popular choice, but works best if you give her Throne of Vines as a spell. In which case Alarielle won’t be able to use it and you’ll be undercutting your best caster. You should give more thought to specific spells and artefacts before deciding whether you want an artefact or would benefit more from another caster. 

On which note, if you want to go caster heavy, have you considered Gnarlroot rather than Winterleaf or Dreadwood? The Gnarlroot Chalice of Nectar is very effective on a Branchwraith to boost her casting without needing to worry about an extra battalion artefact. 

Thanks for the input. 

I was of course thinking of the standard winterleaf or drwadwood items on the arch rev and spiritsong staff on the brachwraith. Thus my points conundrum. 

But perhaps a durthu list is better if you're going to use those grove artifacts. 

I hadn't considered gnarlroot. Looks interesting. Reroll 1s isn't as good as winterleaf but it's better than dreadwood. 

I'd be a bit worried that I only have 2 hard hitting units (6 hunters and Drycha).

I guess I'd have to take more endless spells for damage in this case? Probably mirrors too? 

If I drop the 3 hunters in the above list I can take a unit of tree revs and an arch rev. In that case any of the 3 groves work fine and it means I'll probably be summoning 3 hunters most of the time so it makes my painting and assembly easier (though I'd like the option of 20 dryads for an objective steal). 

Is throne of vines a must on alarielle? Seems like a waste to just keep her and the beetle as a backline caster. 

If I do go gnarlroot, I can drop outcasts and unit of spites for 1 unit of tree revs and then have 90pts spare for endless spells and/or extra CP. 

And I guess in this case, brachwraith gets the chalice and alarielle gets trone of vines. 

I really need to get some test games in. But thanks for the info. You've given me a lot to think about. 

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1 hour ago, Trevelyan said:

Alternatively, the TLA is a solid support caster with a range of useful abilities that work best right behind the front line, and enough durability to stand there and make use of them. A TLA isn’t a heavy hitter (although it hits heavily enough for a second line caster), but it is very far from just being a 300 point Wyldwood dispenser. 

I just find it very hard to use him and justify its 300pts. I have tried him, but it has been difficult to use him at his full potential. I tend not to use him and use the points for more hitting power.

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37 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:I hadn't considered gnarlroot. Looks interesting. Reroll 1s isn't as good as winterleaf but it's better than dreadwood. 

Is throne of vines a must on alarielle? Seems like a waste to just keep her and the beetle as a backline caster. 

ToV isn’t essential on Alarielle, but it is her default choice. If you are short of casters then I tend to seen Regrowth and/or Verdurous Harmony as priorities. But Regrowth is a good pick for Drycha (she’s a tad squishy) and VH is tricky to cast reliably without some sort of artefact buff (the Gem being the most obvious).

Once you’ve got the other spells covered then ToV is a good pick for Alarielle. She has three casts per turn but no inherent casting buff to support them. ToV is an easy cast that buffs the next two spells and presents opposing casters with an unbinding dilemma - do they unbind ToV but risk you casting bigger spells, or let you cast ToV but make further spells harder to unbind? As an added bonus, Alarielle’s Metamorphosis spells improves with your casting result, so ToV directly buffs that. 

Taking ToV doesn’t make Alarielle a backline caster.  She can cast it as her first spell each turn then cast two more spells after that (and less spells, Metamorphosis or summoning a new Wyldwood are all good options). She loses the buff when she moves but can recast ToV from wherever she is next turn. It’s far better than a single cast wizard spending a turn to power up but being forced to stand still until next turn to benefit. 

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Hello, new to sylvaneth and found that list

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Winterleaf
Alarielle the Everqueen (660)
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Arch-Revenant (100)
- Artefact: Frozen Kernel
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Trait: My Heart Is Ice
- Artefact: Greenwood Gladius
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Allies
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Greatswords
Outcasts (100)

is it good as starting point? im just have Looncurse and need not many models to coplete this, but dont know how good this list

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43 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:

 

Is throne of vines a must on alarielle? Seems like a waste to just keep her and the beetle as a backline caster.

The great thing about her is that she has 3 casts. So each turn you recast it, shoot some augmented spells and then move around as needed. I think most people find 2 casts at +2 cast stronger than 3 casts at +0, so they use throne of vínes to make that trade-off even when she moves consistently.

T1 throne of vínes, Wildwood, spiteswarm give is nice and reliable and sets up future turns well for example.

T2 she's now in range so can go throne of vínes again, warscrolls spell, summon another Wildwood! 

Whenever I ay with just regular casters I get annoyed at how unreliable everything in our army is. Lots of moving parts to make the ay work, and all of them needing unreliable spells. 

I perpetually get given t1 since nobody wants it, try to get off an alpha strike but fail to either summon a 2nd Wildwood, cast spiteswarm hive or make the charge, get nowhere and am set up to take a punishing double turn and am way behind before I've really done anything. It's hard to make that whole combination reliable, and has me quite down about the army when skaven start with 3 gnawholes that also give a plus to cast....

Any thoughts on avoiding a useuless t1?

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3 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

As an added bonus, Alarielle’s Metamorphosis spells improves with your casting result, so ToV directly buffs that. 

 

Good point. Forgot about that. Thanks for your insight it's been very helpful. 

Regrowth on Drycha was my default choice too. 

Got the whole life spell lore too so there's a good heal in there too. 

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1 hour ago, simakover said:

Is it good as starting point? im just have Looncurse and need not many models to coplete this, but dont know how good this list

It’s ok. You can certainly play it, and it has most of the basic units for the faction covered.

I would drop the Knight Incantor in favour of something in-faction. I doubt you would want to use him much in future. 

The six Kurnoth Hunters should have scythes rather than swords. I won’t go into the details, but essentially you take scythes for large blobs and swords for the minimum unit. 

We’ve had some discussion recently on the merits of Durthu. He still works well in Winterleaf and looks great on the table, but you could consider a TLA instead. Not essential, but if you are looking at future lists then it is viable. Alternatively, if you’re not getting a Start Collecting set with a Treelord in it, you might want to pick up Drycha instead. 

You’ll need to consider what unit you expect Alarielle to summon. Top picks are either three hunters (swords) or 20 Dryads. Either choice will add to your total model count. 

On a similar note, don’t forget to pick up at least two Wyldwoods, ideally three or four. Sylvaneth is not a cheap faction!

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4 hours ago, simakover said:

May better start at 1000 pts? how would list looks like? Great thanks

If you want a very basic 1000 pt Sylvaneth list, I'd suggest something like:

Leaders
Arch Revenant
Branchwraith
Branchwraith

Battleline
20x Dryads
5x Spite Revenants
5x Tree Revenants

Other
6x Kurnoth Hunters (with Scythes to act as your hammer with the Arch Rev, or two units of 3 with whatever weapons you want)
 

I'd suggest Gnarlroot as the glade, as everything that comes with it is useful, and I don't think your main plan with 1000 points of Sylvaneth should be to table someone. Dreadwood or Winterleaf are also fine, but a little more offensive/command point hungry.

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17 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

I'd suggest Gnarlroot as the glade, as everything that comes with it is useful, and I don't think your main plan with 1000 points of Sylvaneth should be to table someone. Dreadwood or Winterleaf are also fine, but a little more offensive/command point hungry.

I wouldn’t take Gnarlroot in a list with two backline casters. The Chalice is nice for a Branchwraith but they don’t really want to be up front supporting a Kurnoth blob. 

I’d also question the wisdom of taking a unit of six Scythe Hunters if your aim isn't to table your opponent. That’s a lot of offensive output, especially with an arch revenant in support. You could table a casual 1000 point list by accident!

I do think you’ve hit on the essential question, though - do you want a 1000 point list that works like a mini 2000 point list, or do you want to build a 1000 point skew list?

For a balanced, learning experience list I think the Start Collecting box is a good place to start, with a TLA as general and using the Branchwych as a proxy for a Branchwraith. Add some more Dryads (field a unit of 20, keep 10 for summoning) and one unit of Hunters to start. An Arch Revenant is valid only for someone who already has one, since they aren’t readily available at the moment. Then add Revenants to taste (try both flavours). picking up the Sylvaneth spells might also be worthwhile for the Hive. 

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50 minutes ago, simakover said:

why scythes? everythere i see a sword kurnoth

Yea the swords are generally better, but the Scythes have that all important 2 inch reach. So units of 6 are pretty much always guaranteed their full attacks. Scythes are also a bit more reliable vs heavily armoured units. There is a surprising amount of 3+ (and 2+!!)  armor saves running around nowadays. 

I will say though that after practicing a bit with 6 Greatswords, I can usually get 4-5 guys in combat vs everything but behemoths, and the Hive really helps slingshot the hunters forward. 

I think units of 9 are the only situation where the Scythes are the definitive choice. 

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3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

I wouldn’t take Gnarlroot in a list with two backline casters. The Chalice is nice for a Branchwraith but they don’t really want to be up front supporting a Kurnoth blob. 

Agreed that I  wouldn't send a Branchwraith up with on or two groups of Kurnoths, but that's precisely why I suggested including an Arch-Rev. Gnarlroot gives you a glade that lets you flex the awesome Sylvaneth spell lore, encourages you to defend your heroes with troops, and has respectable command ability.

3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

I’d also question the wisdom of taking a unit of six Scythe Hunters if your aim isn't to table your opponent. That’s a lot of offensive output, especially with an arch revenant in support. You could table a casual 1000 point list by accident!

Also agreed that 6 Scythe hunters could overkill most things at 1000 points, which is why in brackets I mentioned that really, any Kurnoth choices are fine in a 1000 point list. I personally think 6 Kurnoths would be more fun because it's all but guaranteed that they will make it into combat, and put some work in. One thing that I know new players get discouraged by, is having their hardest-hitting unit get whittled down to impotence before it can have their turn in combat. The player may absolutely find that a 6-hunter blob is overkill and not what they want, but I'd rather have them play one game and feel guilty about doing too well, than play multiple games with 3-hunters, and get discouraged that 1-2 can't overcome their opponents' big threats.

3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

For a balanced, learning experience list I think the Start Collecting box is a good place to start, with a TLA as general and using the Branchwych as a proxy for a Branchwraith. Add some more Dryads (field a unit of 20, keep 10 for summoning) and one unit of Hunters to start.

I'm not sure I'd recommend a TLA in a 1000 point game. Or at all for new players. The TLA is so dependent on die rolls for both damage output and survivability, that I think it's more likely to feel inferior to any other monster a new player is likely to come up against. A new player is likely to want to play a TLA like a monster, and the TLA really isn't that kind of monster. I dunno, my two cents.

3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

An Arch Revenant is valid only for someone who already has one, since they aren’t readily available at the moment. Then add Revenants to taste (try both flavours). picking up the Sylvaneth spells might also be worthwhile for the Hive. 

Didn't Simakover say that their starting off point was a Looncurse box? I was also basing all my suggestions on that.

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1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Yea the swords are generally better, but the Scythes have that all important 2 inch reach. So units of 6 are pretty much always guaranteed their full attacks. Scythes are also a bit more reliable vs heavily armoured units. There is a surprising amount of 3+ (and 2+!!)  armor saves running around nowadays. 

I will say though that after practicing a bit with 6 Greatswords, I can usually get 4-5 guys in combat vs everything but behemoths, and the Hive really helps slingshot the hunters forward. 

I think units of 9 are the only situation where the Scythes are the definitive choice. 

Swords are awesome, no doubt. My experience has been very different though, where terrain combined with Wyldwoods has really hamstrung my sword hunters and neutered their potency over and over again for me. I've had more than one engagement where my opponents have tactically charge them in such a way that I can only attack with one (when I root down for rerolls), or used endless spells to funnel their pile-in routes so I could only attack with one or two. In contrast, Scythe Hunters always get to fight in two ranks, so they have outperformed my swords every single time I've ran both in a list. 

I also don't think 9 is the only size you'd want Scythes in. I'm pretty sure half the reason you see 9-blocks in competitive lists is so you can lose 3 models by the time they engage, and still put up impressive damage output on the swing back.

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