Jump to content

AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion


Chris Tomlin

Recommended Posts

49 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

On a side note/rant: I have always found the battalion taxes to be rather excessive. You are already severely altering your list, and you need at least two unnamed characters to take advantage of the additional item. So you are really paying like 3 separate taxes. The point costs should be cut in half for all but the most powerful battalions gamewide IMHO.

 

A large part of the cost for battalions isn't the added abilities, artifacts and command points.  It's the high degree of control a player with one has over a player without one for deciding who gets the first turn.  The first year of points in AOS had battalions as rather cheap.  Because of this issue, when the next General's Handbook came out all battalions went up significantly in points and it's been that way since.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

Hi everyone, would like to request some advice. I have two 1750 games coming up this month as part of a league, I'm currently joint first with major 7 wins and 1 loss. I expect to face two tough games against decent players this month. The first list I face is likely to be a Sacrosanct chamber with 3 celestar and a few other units. The second is LoN who is likely to have 2 VLOZD, 1 with the ethereal amulet. I suspect he will then be taking skeletons and necromancers for the remaining points, but I am unsure about this. The battle plan is Total Commitment, so all units have to be deployed at the start of the game. 

I am thinking of running the following list. (edit - Kurnoths are with swords not scythes). I also have access to dryads, branchwych and a treelord ancient as possible other options. Any advice on changes / how to play it would be welcome.

 

That list is fantastic. Loving the big unit of Eels. They should kill just about anything on the charge. You may want to consider taking Dreadwood instead of Winterleaf. Losing the exploding 6's sucks, but your Spites will appreciate the rerolls. Being able to teleport 6 hunters or 20 spites anywhere will be terrifying.

My only recommendation would be to swap out durthu for Drycha. She is much more reliable and also buffs your spites. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Emissary said:

A large part of the cost for battalions isn't the added abilities, artifacts and command points.  It's the high degree of control a player with one has over a player without one for deciding who gets the first turn.  The first year of points in AOS had battalions as rather cheap.  Because of this issue, when the next General's Handbook came out all battalions went up significantly in points and it's been that way since.

Ah good point. I usually play with Alarielle so I get first turn choice more often than not. But in more traditional lists I can I see how important that would be.

Whats strange is that lately I actually prefer taking second turn. Getting double turned is always bad but it seems particularly brutal at the start of the game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Ah good point. I usually play with Alarielle so I get first turn choice more often than not. But in more traditional lists I can I see how important that would be.

Whats strange is that lately I actually prefer taking second turn. Getting double turned is always bad but it seems particularly brutal at the start of the game. 

I think most people prefer to get the 2nd turn honestly.  I'd say a significant majority of my games has the person picking the 1st turn order picking the 2nd turn.  It allows you to react to what they're doing and has a higher chance to put the enemy in magic, shooting and charging range of your guys.  Plus you get the chance for a double turn.   Unless the mission has a good reason to go first, I think most people will choose to go second on an even playing field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for the replies. Thinking about it, I may not go the Outcasts anyway. It doesn’t really give me any faster deployment compared to my original list, and I’m not sure the additional artefact helps all that much compared to the extra bodies. I may try it out in the future though if I’m finding I need it. 

And I’ll try out the bow hunters and Arch-rev buffing them. Potentially on the turn she needs to use the Kernel, with her speed, she may be able to fly up the board and get within the 18” range to use it. I’ll have to do some testing. 

Edited by Tiberius501
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Thanks everyone for the replies. Thinking about it, I may not go the Outcasts anyway. It doesn’t really give me any faster deployment compared to my original list, and I’m not sure the additional artefact helps all that much compared to the extra bodies. I may try it out in the future though if I’m finding I need it. 

You’re very low on casters. I’d be tempted to keep Outcasts and use it to give the Branchwraith the Spiritsong Stave. That allows you to summon Dryads and do something else at the same time, likely summon a new Wyldwood, or cast whatever other spell you give her. Normally Throne of vines is a viable combo for greater reliability on the summons. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/10/2019 at 8:32 PM, Landohammer said:

That list is fantastic. Loving the big unit of Eels. They should kill just about anything on the charge. You may want to consider taking Dreadwood instead of Winterleaf. Losing the exploding 6's sucks, but your Spites will appreciate the rerolls. Being able to teleport 6 hunters or 20 spites anywhere will be terrifying.

My only recommendation would be to swap out durthu for Drycha. She is much more reliable and also buffs your spites. 

Thanks for the tips. I am going to stick with Winterleaf for now mostly due to my paint scheme and having played them for the earlier games. 

I'm more taking Durthu as a defensive unit rather than expecting him to put out big damage. Having access to the 4+ fight last means he can protect the fragile spites a bit. If I don't have to activate spites first then that puts me in a good position, likewise if I can stop my opponent wiping 20 of them in a single activation. Durthu can also sit behind the spites and still be in range with his stomp and sword. Lastly, the ability to teleport between woods may be useful.

One change I am thinking of after reading recent comments is dropping the ethereal amulet on Durthu and going for the spiritsong stave / throne of vines combo on the branchwraith. Being able to reliably bring in bodies could be handy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

As a brand new Sylvaneth Player with 3 Branchwraiths and 3 Branchwych's I was just wondering, do you folks have a preference for either Branchwraith /Branchwych's and if so - what are those preferences and why.....? 

I've read a lot of criticism re Branchwych's from a well-known source but I would like to hear it from a Seasoned, experienced Player's perspective....? 

I love the Branchwraith Models.... But am open to persuasion (not having yet faced my first battle) 

 

Kind regards 

Ian Wallsh 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/10/2019 at 6:35 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

This video will explain what happens when you dont thin your paints, and how to do it. This is gospel in mini painting bibles! Also if you are new to painting minis, consider using contrast paints from Games Workshop as a way to get a good looking army on the table and expand your use of base, layers, shades, glazes and more advanced techniques as you progress in the hobby! :)

 

 

 

Thanks for the info! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ian Wallsh said:

Hi

As a brand new Sylvaneth Player with 3 Branchwraiths and 3 Branchwych's I was just wondering, do you folks have a preference for either Branchwraith /Branchwych's and if so - what are those preferences and why.....? 

I've read a lot of criticism re Branchwych's from a well-known source but I would like to hear it from a Seasoned, experienced Player's perspective....? 

I love the Branchwraith Models.... But am open to persuasion (not having yet faced my first battle) 

 

Kind regards 

Ian Wallsh 

 

Branchwych's are fine if you just want a cheap caster or if you bring along a balewind vortex. But if you have the extra dryad models the wraith is clearly better.  

The wych might do some damage late in the game but the wraith has the potential to put 100pts of models on the table every turn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Branchwych's are fine if you just want a cheap caster or if you bring along a balewind vortex. But if you have the extra dryad models the wraith is clearly better.  

The wych might do some damage late in the game but the wraith has the potential to put 100pts of models on the table every turn.

Basically this. 

The Branchwych isn’t bad by any means. 80 points for a caster with a credible melee attack (when injured and within 6” of a wyldwood) is actually pretty good. But the same 80 points will get you the Branchwraith who can summon dryads and is harder to kill. 

The Branchwych also suffers from the arrival of the Arch Revenant at only 100 points. Archie is clearly better in melee, has far greater mobility and an excellent command ability. 

There is definitely still value in the Branchwych’s Unleash Spites spell, especially if you can boost the range (eg with the Vortex as Landohammer suggests) or the casting value (the Gnarlroot Chalice of Nectar could be interesting there, but usually has better places to go, or maybe Throne of Vines).  But overall she sits in that awkward place where she is a cheap combat caster in an army that has better options in the same price range for a dedicated combat hero or a dedicated support caster. She sees more play in lower point games where you don’t have the luxury of taking specialists. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Branchwych's are fine if you just want a cheap caster or if you bring along a balewind vortex. But if you have the extra dryad models the wraith is clearly better.  

The wych might do some damage late in the game but the wraith has the potential to put 100pts of models on the table every turn.

I bring 2 branchwraiths so that the first can cast throne of vines turn one while the other summons dryads.  Then the next turn the thrones one starts summoning dryads and the other runs off to cast the other spells.  This way you don't miss a turns worth of dryads potentially.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone. 

I need some help selecting an army for a large  tournament in January. 

I have 2 main options that I'm leaning towards but very keen on some feedback. 

OPTION 1: Big stuff
Last 90 points can be more spites or another branchwraith
Or can drop a few spites and squeeze in a treelord 
Or can drop spites to minimum and swap the Arch Rev for a Treelord Ancient

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Winterleaf
Spirit of Durthu (340)
- General
- Trait: My Heart Is Ice
- Artefact: Frozen Kernel
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Arch-Revenant (100)
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
20 x Spite-Revenants (200)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatswords
Outcasts (100)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1910 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

I feel like it's fairly flexible. Has a bit of punch and the treelords potentially help with all the slaanesh strike first stuff
i'm also flexible on the glade, Dreadwood would work well here too. 

OPTION 2: Alarielle 
Again, the last 50pts are flexible... could be more endless spells or could drop some spites for more heroes etc... 
Also flexible on the Glade. 


Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Winterleaf
Alarielle the Everqueen (660)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Spiritsong Stave
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines
Arch-Revenant (100)
- General
- Trait: My Heart Is Ice
- Artefact: Frozen Kernel
20 x Spite-Revenants (200)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
5 x Spite-Revenants (60)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatswords
Outcasts (100)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101

I feel like the Alarielle one is a bit stronger. Though I'm not looking forward to having to paint an additional 800+ points for a 2000pt army (Dryad summons and Alarielle's extra unit). Her summon is very flexible but requires lots more painting.  But the army doesn't have as much to deal with strike first slaanesh? 

I'm not sure how heavily we rely on the Wyldwoods now. I keep thinking the TLA's free auto forest is important? 

Any advice would be super useful. I won't get much time to play test any of this as I need to get stuck into assembly right now and start painting very soon. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the moment, I'm not completely sold on units of 20 spite revenants.  Just too hard to get them all in melee.

Wyldwoods aren't nearly as important anymore as a central part of the army.  They don't do a ton of damage anymore (they've only done damage to my opponent once in 15+ games.  Yes, I'm serious).  Usually I use them to teleport between areas, grow dryads or cut off line of sight.  They're good, but not what they once were.

As for a competitive build, I'm really having a lot of success with a Heartwood list with Alarielle and 3x3 Kurnoth Hunters with bows.  On average the 9 Kurnoth bows with the artifact will take down a Keeper of Secrets, Lord of Change or anything else with 14 4+ save wounds in a single turn if they all can shoot.  Alarielle is a nice insurance policy for shooting  to raise that average rate over the 64% of the bows alone.  Without the keepers' command ability, a lot of the damage potential of the list is taken away.  If the keepers aren't in range turn 1, you should kill over half a 30-strong daemonette unit.  This works well for against most units as you can take out key pieces in the army and then mop them up.  I'm a big proponent of the list right now, though most people are rightfully focused on Winterleaf.

The list if you are interested is:

Alarielle with Regrowth (summons 3 Greatsword Kurnoths)
Branchwraith General with the Horn of the Consort and Verdurous Harmony
Branchwraith with Throne of Vines
6 Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
5 Spite-Revenants
5 Spite-Revenants
5 Spite-Revenants

I talk more about it a few pages back.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting about the spites.... only really did 20 because of the discount, but yeah I forgot they're on larger bases. 
Originally I was just gonna do the 3x5+outcasts but it felt a bit light. Perhaps in the Alarielle version I can pump out enough dryads that it won't matter. 

In terms of wyldwoods, I'm certainly thinking more about movement/alpha striking and dryad summoning rather than damage. 
I never really played Sylvaneth with the old rules (had lots of stuff in boxes but not built). 

I am planning on magnetizing all my hunters (already have 3 done), so I should be able to test bows vs melee a bit.... depending on how many practice games I can squeeze in. 
Wasn't the problem with shooting always that the woods block LOS? 

I was trying to avoid having to buy more hunters, but sounds like 12 is a good spot (and then the extra ones from Alarielle potentially). 

Edited by Inquisitorsz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I run the spites in 5s to take care of the battleline tax on the cheap.  They're there to hold backfield objectives, guard the backfield line against things showing up or as a speedbump.  I don't expect them to survive or kill much.  

The woods in the old days did damage out to 3" and would straight up kill things that charged or ran across them.  They could be deadly andy opponents would avoid them like the plague. Now, not so much.    They do block line of sight o you have to set them back for you to use as cover or to the sides for deep strike.  You have to take care that hey don't block off sight lines for the bow hunters.  

As for bows, I actually think they're the only bad unit in the book.  I'd only take them in the heartwood glade with the horn artifact and in a large group (3x3) and then they shine.  They need to take down or neuter specific threats early.   Otherwise they don't do much for the points.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kurnoth with bows are only decent next to an Arch-Revenant, who can give them the +1 to hit bubble. I use 3 in my larger games to target heavier infantry and monsters, and wound them before they reach my lines. Sylvaneth ranged attacks aren't that great for sniping foot heroes, but I feel pretty confident bringing 3 along at 2k to punch up monsters and elite infantry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also think Hunters with Bows are pretty soft, but then a guy just won a tourney fielding 9 of them so who knows lol.

I think they may look soft on paper, but internally they add a shooting option to a book that has extremely limited shooting capability. Sadly they also are stuck paying premium points for stat-lines and abilities that don't benefit them at all in their role. (Glades, WS 3+, rerollable saves, stomp, envoys, etc). 

 IMHO if you want a splash of shooting then allies are MUCH more efficient.  Waystalkers, Celester Ballistas or maybe even Sisters are just better at their job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Spites are kind of a slippery slope. Units of 5 are overshadowed by Tree Revs, and units of 15 are obsolete because of the 20 man discount.

I agree that there is no point in taking 15 when a mere 20 points will get you the full 20.

I’m not sure that they are overshadowed by Tree Revs. The two units serve a very different purpose. Spite Revenants are the cheapest way to meet the battleline tax and also provide the cheapest battalion. Tree Revenants are a lot more expensive if you just want minimum battlelines and don’t have an easy battalion.

You can get more use out of five Tree Revenants than five Spites Once they are on the table, but they don’t have the same value in list composition. And neither option is valid if you actually want a proper battleline tarpit

4 hours ago, Emissary said:

The woods in the old days did damage out to 3" and would straight up kill things that charged or ran across them.  They could be deadly andy opponents would avoid them like the plague. Now, not so much

As for bows, I actually think they're the only bad unit in the book.

Swings and roundabouts. The notional damage of the old woods was much higher if your opponent charged across them and rolled poorly. In practice that rarely happened. I find that I probably do as much damage just from forcing enemy units to stand near Wyldwoods for combat. It’s particularly notable when you start damaging heroes.

The hidden advantage of the reduced damage on paper is that opponents are far less concerned about being near the woods so more susceptible To a host of wood-related abilities. They’ll happily charge you into or near a wood, hoping for a quick end to the combat, then get slammed over several turns by the Roused and Wyldwood abilities. 
 

Bow Hunters are overpriced. Maybe splitting the warscrolls will allow GW to monitor and adjust over time. The trouble is that they actually perform well if you can spam and buff a lot of them, but perform poorly without support. That’s a tough situation to balance with the bow hunters alone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

Exactly. So how do you balance a unit which is great under a single Glade with support, but very poor otherwise?

Your guess is as good as mine.   Like I've stated before.  I think they're the only poor unit in the book unless near the horn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...