AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[SkiRootz]

Been playing with the free spirits battalion in harvestboon . I've been trying to untangle the wording on Swift vengeance.. do I add 6 to my movement instead of running? Or is it just having 6" on a run movement. 

Confused as it says "do not make a run roll...instead add 6" to the movement of that unit..."  Do my hunters count as having made a run? Or did he just advance, thus enabling a charge after

If he gets an extra 6" move rather than run its insane with the repositioning potential of durthu with Swift vengeance and seek new fruit, dancing around cutting down everything

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by SkiRootz
Afterthought

[Emissary]

When you run you add 6" to your normal move instead of adding d6".  That's all.  Still counts as running.

[TreelordRecent]

@SkiRootz I would agree with Emissary. It is the most plausible reading.

On a different note, do you find that harvest boon works well with free spirits? I would be most tempted to use heartwood or Winterleaf instead. I think the damage output with the double attacks on 6s or the rerolling failed hits would generate more damage than rerolling 1s to hit. The command ability to give the extra attack can be “purchased” with an arch revenant.

[Emissary]

One thing is that the Harvestboon +1 attack command trait stacks with the arch-revenant +1 attack command trait since they have different names.  

I think winterleaf is best for kurnoth hunters because you can get rerolls of 1s through the arch-revenant and the extra attacks are so good.

[TreelordRecent]

36 minutes ago, Emissary said:

One thing is that the Harvestboon +1 attack command trait stacks with the arch-revenant +1 attack command trait since they have different names.  

I think winterleaf is best for kurnoth hunters because you can get rerolls of 1s through the arch-revenant and the extra attacks are so good.

It is very tempting. Although I find that as we are quite command point poor we have a dilemma in front of us. With a unit of 30 dryads you could potentially get 120 attacks. By enlarge that kills everything you put in front of it at the cost of 2 command points. It also tends to be over the top in terms of the damage it can cause. Whereas with Winterleaf you can still do about 25 wounds at the cost of only one command point. You can also do this virtually every turn. Whereas with the harvestboon you can do this at most one or two turns during a 5 turn game. It’s not bad, but I think we can do better with winterleaf.

I’d be interested to see what people think.

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, TreelordRecent said:

It is very tempting. Although I find that as we are quite command point poor we have a dilemma in front of us. With a unit of 30 dryads you could potentially get 120 attacks. By enlarge that kills everything you put in front of it at the cost of 2 command points. It also tends to be over the top in terms of the damage it can cause. Whereas with Winterleaf you can still do about 25 wounds at the cost of only one command point. You can also do this virtually every turn. Whereas with the harvestboon you can do this at most one or two turns during a 5 turn game. It’s not bad, but I think we can do better with winterleaf.

I’d be interested to see what people think.

I think winterleaf is the better choice taking all into consideration.

[5kaven5lave]

Confirmed next week guys. 

[Trevelyan]

4 hours ago, TreelordRecent said:

I’d be interested to see what people think.

I think that 20 Spite Revenants out damage 30 Dryads under any of the scenarios you suggest.

And while you can run Dryads two ranks deep, in practice it’s not any harder to let 20 revenants into combat than to get 15 Dryads in the front rank engaged with 15 lined up perfectly behind them.

Adding Drycha to the list to further buff the Spites only swings things even more in their favour. Plus we’re talking about a 20 point Spite unit against 270 points of Dryads, which is almost enough to buy the Arch Revenant to give them the extra attack. 

So if you’re looking for cheap infantry that maximises damage output, don’t go for the Dryads. 

[SkiRootz]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

Between terrain placement  + objective spread on the board it was difficult to place woods in good spots for board control/ mobility. 

Free spirits helped with that , purely by allowing a little more mobility without need of woods. 

Durthu with Greenwood gladius + seek new fruit was a blast to play , generally charging in, stomping then chopping guys up and slinking back into a group of dryads or woods after striking. 

[SkiRootz]

seek new fruit made charging against a durthu a 50/50 gamble that he will stomp you, unload attacks and skip away before you get to strike back.

In gnarlroot , Vesperal gem on a TLA with nurtured by magic and verduos harmony, + branchwraith with chalice of nectars and regrowth gave the kurnoths a lot of recursion. Vesperal gem almost never backfired and the 1 damage is worth the d3 + kurnoth hunter back. Not as much magic as old gnarlroot, but the quality of the casts are much much better

Edited July 7, 2019 by SkiRootz
Clarification

[ppetford]

 

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Confirmed next week guys. 

Pre-orders up next week. EXCITED!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/07/coming-soon-something-for-everyone/

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

36 minutes ago, ppetford said:

 

Pre-orders up next week. EXCITED!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/07/coming-soon-something-for-everyone/

OHBOYOHBOYOHBOY

[TreelordRecent]

@Trevelyan regarding the spite revenant I agree I think they are obviously more cost effective per point than dryads in terms of their damage output. However I think that with the retreat and charge from forest folk you can easily make most of them attack, and they are more durable. Our first few games will tell us whether we can get away with spite revenants or whether we need to revert to hordes of dryads.

[The World Tree]

59 minutes ago, TreelordRecent said:

@Trevelyan regarding the spite revenant I agree I think they are obviously more cost effective per point than dryads in terms of their damage output. However I think that with the retreat and charge from forest folk you can easily make most of them attack, and they are more durable. Our first few games will tell us whether we can get away with spite revenants or whether we need to revert to hordes of dryads.

The extra movement on the dryads is not to be sniffed at even. The exciting thing is that it looks like all battleline options have value. That's a great place to be in.

[Atreyu]

Does someone have already some experience with the new Battletome? How many of the new Wyldwoods would you guys recommended on 2000P?

[Emissary]

After several games I'm getting 4.  1 to start with, 1 from ancient and 2 to cast during the game.

[Kaylethia]

@Emissary is that with the new scenery rules from GHB 2019? 

I run between 1-2k, and I'm starting with 2 so far.

[TreelordRecent]

With the new scenery rules I would assume that we could place 1 large wyldwood with 6 trees, and maybe 3 with about 3-6 trees. I think that between the automatic trees/ space / casting ability this is the best we can ever hope for. This is obviously based on having seen the trees at warhammer fest and imagining that we can place them in an elongated circle to stay away from some terrain pieces.

[Atreyu]

Okey, then ill preorder 4 or 5 packs on saturday

[Trevelyan]

11 hours ago, TreelordRecent said:

@Trevelyan regarding the spite revenant I agree I think they are obviously more cost effective per point than dryads in terms of their damage output. However I think that with the retreat and charge from forest folk you can easily make most of them attack, and they are more durable. Our first few games will tell us whether we can get away with spite revenants or whether we need to revert to hordes of dryads.

 

10 hours ago, The World Tree said:

The extra movement on the dryads is not to be sniffed at even. The exciting thing is that it looks like all battleline options have value. That's a great place to be in.

I completely agree that dryads have a lot going for them in terms of both an extra 2” movement and vastly improved durability. They absolutely still have value. 

I just think it is important to recognise that this isn’t a small point for point improvement in damage output. Rather 200 points of Spite Revenants will consistently now inflict more than 10% more damage than 270 points of Dryads. That’s a fairly significant increase in damage for an even more significant drop in cost. 

The takeaway is that Spites are vastly more dangerous in this edition. If you want a unit that can run around the table (important given the reduction in teleports) and tarpit then Dryads are still better. But if you just want a battleline unit that can make the most of an alpha strike opportunity (bearing in mind that both units charge the same distance if you teleport them 9” away) then Spites are objectively better for fewer points. Don’t overlook them. 

[Wickie De Viking]

Cant wait to finally get that new book. I am a bit in doubt still if I can use my old forests as Awakened Wyldwoods?

[Naem]

I really love the Sylvaneth models and waited for the new book to start a little Spin Off to my SCE.

Just a few beginner's questions: are the strategies on 1dchan already adjusted to the new book. How did they get the informations?  

Anyways: do you think there will be new Start Collecting packs or what would be your recommendation for a Sylvaneth start? I already know exactly what they are supposed to look like - an army of GoT Wairewood Trees  

[Chunk]

22 hours ago, Emissary said:

One thing is that the Harvestboon +1 attack command trait stacks with the arch-revenant +1 attack command trait since they have different names.  

I think winterleaf is best for kurnoth hunters because you can get rerolls of 1s through the arch-revenant and the extra attacks are so good.

Where are you getting this information from? I understand from reading the thread that there was a leak at some point (I think the eBook was briefly up for purchase accidentally), but despite some concerted searching I haven't found anything about Harvestboon. 

Is there a link somewhere to other pages, or would you be so kind as to list the changes here?

Thanks!

[Emissary]

5 hours ago, Kaylethia said:

@Emissary is that with the new scenery rules from GHB 2019? 

I run between 1-2k, and I'm starting with 2 so far.

Bear in mind that the new scenery rule from GHB 2019 only affect terrain placed from allegiance abilities.  IE, the initial wyldwood you set up before deployment.  The GHB 2019 terrain placement rules do not affect any wyldwoods you create during the course of the game from spells, the treelord ancient or other abilities.  Since all of those abilities only force you to keep newly created wyldwoods 1" from other models or objectives they're significantly easier to create and place.  In my games using the new book I've consistently used 3-4 woods as needed.

2 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

 

I completely agree that dryads have a lot going for them in terms of both an extra 2” movement and vastly improved durability. They absolutely still have value. 

 

I agree dryads still have value also.  My thing is that it's harder to keep larger units wholly within 6" of a wyldwood if you aren't playing a defensive game with them.  With the -1 to hit being a big driver in their value, I've found my use of them has fallen more on the summoning end.  I like to include spites in my list and start with them and then bring the dryads in through summoning.

11 minutes ago, Naem said:

I really love the Sylvaneth models and waited for the new book to start a little Spin Off to my SCE.

Just a few beginner's questions: are the strategies on 1dchan already adjusted to the new book. How did they get the informations?  

Anyways: do you think there will be new Start Collecting packs or what would be your recommendation for a Sylvaneth start? I already know exactly what they are supposed to look like - an army of GoT Wairewood Trees  

The book was accidentally released electronically for a few hours on the Apple store at the end of May.  Through the leaked pictures many of us have been playing with the new book since.  I was on the 1chan tactics site a few days ago.  They have a few things wrong so keep that in mind.

As far as what to start with, who knows about a new start collecting box.  The current one isn't bad.  To start I'd want a treelord ancient, branchwraith, some dryads/spite revenants and some kurnoth hunters with swords to make my initial 1,000 points.  If you get the start collecting box, take the branchwych and leave off the bug.  then convert it by leaving off the scythe and giving it some extra dryad arms (there are more arms in the kit then you need to make the dryads) to make a branchwraith.

[Emissary]

20 minutes ago, Chunk said:

Where are you getting this information from? I understand from reading the thread that there was a leak at some point (I think the eBook was briefly up for purchase accidentally), but despite some concerted searching I haven't found anything about Harvestboon. 

Is there a link somewhere to other pages, or would you be so kind as to list the changes here?

Thanks!

The book was leaked at the end of May.

The harvestboon trait allows a charging sylvaneth unit to reroll 1s to hit.  The command ability gives a unit wholly within x" (I cannot remember how far, I want to say 12") +1 attack for the combat phase but cannot stack with itself on a single unit (it has a different name then the arch-revenant ability so they stack).  The required magic item gives the bearer +1 attack with one of its melee weapons.  The required general's command trait lets the bearer move 6" after attacking in melee as long as the move ends more than 3" away from any enemy models (this stacks really well with the magic item that doesn't let the bearer be attacked in the melee phase until after the bearer attacks, though you have to take a battalion to take the extra magic item)

It's not a bad glade and certainly usable IMO, but I do think that Winterleaf (glade does 2 hits on 6s to hit, command ability is roll a dice for every enemy in unit, mortal wounds on 6s, command ability is general does mortal wounds to attacker on 5+ every time general takes a wound, magic item is unit within x" gets to fight twice, back to back, in the combat phase though one use only) is best followed by Gnarlroot (sylvaneth wholly within 12" of a wizard reroll 1s to hit, ability is unit gets a 6+ ignore wounds, general heals d3 wounds on a unit when it successfully casts a spell and magic item allows the bearer to roll 3d6 and drop one dice of your choice when you cast or dispel a spell) in terms of competitiveness.  

Few other things for those that don't know, but not everything:

1) The spell to create wyldwoods isn't part of the sylvaneth lore.  Every sylvaneth wizard just knows it now
2) The spell that replaced it in the lore brings back 1 killed kurnoth hunter or d3 killed dryads/spite revenants/tree revenants to an existing unit.
3) Only 1 non-treelord unit can teleport between wyldwoods a turn
4) You pick a 1 non-allegiance terrain piece before the battle now and your units are immune to battleshock while wholly within x" of it
5) Treelord/Ancient/Durthu stomps only affect 1 enemy unit now and give it always strikes last instead of -1 to hit
6) There is a magic item that allows you to auto-cast without rolling a spell from the sylvaneth lore every turn and it cannot be dispelled.  After you cast, the bearer takes a wound on a 6 (or 1, I'm going on memory as I forgot my phone with the pictures upstairs).  Bear in mind this item does not affect non-sylvaneth lore spells like the wyldwood summoning spells, spells on the unit warscrolls or endless spells
7) IMO the best sylvaneth endless spell is the Spiteswarm Hive.  It pulses every turn and gives all sylvaneth wholly within 8" either reroll 1s to save or +3" movement and +3" charging on a 2+.  The movement and charging bonus is huge.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Emissary