Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Kaylethia]

 

On 5/13/2017 at 1:02 PM, Asor said:

May i equip it with an artefact from the sylvaneth? Or only an order Item?

I had a similar question earlier, and looking around, I came to this conclusion: 

According to scrollbuilder and the GHB errata, you can mix and match: "You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to." and artefacts are allegiance abilities. The example I found was Ironjawz getting their battleline units through Ironjawz allegiance, and their traits etc. through GA Destruction.

[Nico]

You cannot mix and match. The section you are quoting is talking about the pack of allegiance abilities, not the individual abilities themselves.

The Ironjawz point is merely that list writing precedes choice of allegiance and allegiance abilities.

[Kaylethia]

Thanks for clarifying that, I've been playing my Loremaster with the item that lets you have -1 to hit in one combat phase, although it hasn't been relevant in any of my games.

[swarmofseals]

4 hours ago, Nico said:

You cannot mix and match. The section you are quoting is talking about the pack of allegiance abilities, not the individual abilities themselves.

The Ironjawz point is merely that list writing precedes choice of allegiance and allegiance abilities.

I believe you, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the logic of why the Ironjawz thing works. The wording in the GHB is that "X unit is battleline if your army has Y allegiance". Then later on when it talks about allegiance abilities it states that if your army qualifies for multiple allegiances, it must pick one before each battle. While it's absolutely true that you write your list before, I'm not sure why we'd conclude that the only time the list has to be valid is when it's first written down. I'd think it would be different if it was worded "X unit is battleline if your army qualifies for Y allegiance." In that case the Ironjawz example should clearly work. But it's not worded like that.

Is this covered in a FAQ somewhere or has it just become customary? I've certainly seen Ironjawz lists using the destruction package in tournaments, so clearly it's widely considered to be valid. 

[Mune]

So I played my first tournament.

Overall my 4th, 5th and 6th aos games.

I finished 7th.

Had a bit of an issue because I asked every person I played against, what their models, spells etc. do.

I lost like 20min on every game doing this and this broke my neck.

With like 15-20min more, I would have been able to table all my opponents and finish 1st or 2nd.

 

Overall I'm rather happy and I had a big learning aspect playing very competitive lists at the start of my "aos carrier".

[Paul G]

Nice one@mune, what did you take?


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[Nico]

Quote

Is this covered in a FAQ somewhere or has it just become customary? I've certainly seen Ironjawz lists using the destruction package in tournaments, so clearly it's widely considered to be valid. 

The mechanism could be a lot clearer, but the outcome is settled.

[Aezeal]

On 2017-4-29 at 0:04 AM, Mirage8112 said:

Should consider the TL in the last 1300 points (next to 40 dryads, 5 revenants and 6 hunters) my 2K list (tbh only because I only have 6 hunters, but since I consider Durthu and Alarielle he should certainly be considered - next to the TLA).

1. Alarielle, Drycha and Durthu (1300 points in 3 models - only 38 wounds), no TLA general, only 1 artefact but also only 1 target for the artefact. I guess both Alarielle and Drycha would take regrowth with alarielle mostly casting shield/bolt and her damage spell and drycha healing till she dies (or shield/bold whatever A isn't casting)

2. Durthu, TLA, Drycha, 6 treekin, wych: TLA general but still only 1 artefact which really makes either Durthu or TLA quite a bit more vulnerable.

3. Big A, Big D and TLA (yes that is too much points.. but could be done if I delete 10 dryads and take 3 Treekin). Still only 1 artefact unless I somehow get a batallion instead of the treekin.. but don't see how). TLA general MIGHT be worth loosing a few dryads... however drycha's ability to clear a unit of 60 goblins in 1 shooting phase does have it's uses.

4 Alarielle, Durthy and 2x 3 treekin. (similar to 1 but no drycha: gives more targets for A's healing.. but not sure lacking Drycha's unique talents is worth that.

5. .... something with another battallion to give both TLA and Durthu oaken armor seems nice.. but can't really figure it out yet. Even better would be 3 artefacts so a wych could get the acorn for more 100% relilable forests to increase D's offence and buff dryads ( but I doubt I can fit 2 batallions in if I'm not using gnarlroot)

6. Big A, TLA, Drycha and 3 treekin

7. something else entirely.

Finally going to play a game again. It's against my most regular opponent whole likes to bring his most nasty lists (and chaos has quite a bit of nastiness IMHO). I'm going for option 6. Not sure Drycha will be optimal in this game since he never brings real big units but my 2nd option is 3 and while I'd love to use Durthu to negate wounds on Allarielle I think I should try 2x20 dryads to get a better feel for playing unit of 20 dryads (in 1500 points I've mostly played them in 10's).

I've contemplated going regular TL instead of Drycha based on your (Mirage) arguments but I think TLA and Allarielle (and Drycha) bring some of the things TL brings and I've got that covered and Drycha's shooting, magic and especially her speed is something that is worth the few extra points and bring me more utility (the speed allowing her to keep up with Allarielle a bit might allow me to just kill a flank if he places units incorrectly or it might allow me to take objective a turn earlier). 

I do think that I should get more hunters to go free spirits because that batallion is a bargain for what it does and would help a list like this (apart from the effectiveness of the hunters themselves). Lists like this without a batallion just seem suboptimal in a way that I dislike. 

(Arg the units I've been working with are way more points that I said.. dammit back to the drawing board been counting 2x10 dryads instead of 2x20).

Well I really want more than 2x10 dryads in 2K points so it's going to be:

Alarielle, TLA (gnarled-armour, regrowth), 2x3 hunters (swords and scythes), 3 treekin, 50 dryads in 3 units. Seems balanced between magic behemoths and troops.

Spell on Alarielle remains the only choice.. regrowth? reaping? verdant blessing? (considered briarsheeth but I think Alarielle will be wanting magic shield too).

[ledha]

On 15/05/2017 at 3:34 PM, Kaylethia said:

 

I had a similar question earlier, and looking around, I came to this conclusion: 

According to scrollbuilder and the GHB errata, you can mix and match: "You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to." and artefacts are allegiance abilities. The example I found was Ironjawz getting their battleline units through Ironjawz allegiance, and their traits etc. through GA Destruction.

It's actually quite simple. You have to choose between your allegiance abilities OR your grand alliance. No mix and match. Ironjaw can choose between allegiance abilities (something they don't have) or grand alliance. So they all take grand alliance destruction abilities and item. In the same way a stormcast eternal army with stormcast allegiance can take order abilities (but won't be able to take the new stormcast items/prayers and so on)

Whatever is your allegiance, your grand alliance items/abilities are always open to use

[Kaylethia]

5 hours ago, ledha said:

It's actually quite simple. You have to choose between your allegiance abilities OR your grand alliance. No mix and match. Ironjaw can choose between allegiance abilities (something they don't have) or grand alliance. So they all take grand alliance destruction abilities and item. In the same way a stormcast eternal army with stormcast allegiance can take order abilities (but won't be able to take the new stormcast items/prayers and so on)

Whatever is your allegiance, your grand alliance items/abilities are always open to use

Yup, got as much from Nico's answer too. Kind of a shame, but I guess I can see why they'd do it like that. 

[Mirage8112]

19 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I've contemplated going regular TL instead of Drycha based on your (Mirage) arguments but I think TLA and Allarielle (and Drycha) bring some of the things TL brings and I've got that covered and Drycha's shooting, magic and especially her speed is something that is worth the few extra points and bring me more utility (the speed allowing her to keep up with Allarielle a bit might allow me to just kill a flank if he places units incorrectly or it might allow me to take objective a turn earlier). 

Not sure why you'd need the TLA and Alarielle together. You'll probably be using Alarielle's command ability, and between Alarielle's 3 spells and Drycha's 1 spell, you don't really need (and probably won't be able to use) the TLA's casting abilities (You've also said on numerous occasions how long your hero phase takes with a lot of casting). So really i don't see what value the TLA brings over the TL other than costing a bit more for a command ability you can't use and spell casting you don't need. 

I get that the TLA gets an item, which is nice and all, but not exactly helpful unless you have a solid plan on how you want to use him. TLA's seem to work best when bunkered with dryads in a forest. But this is kind of a liability if you have Alareille on the table, since she does mortal wounds to all units (even friendly units) if she ends a charge within 1" of a terrain feature (aka wyldwoods).

You may find having both in a single list causes your army to work against itself if you're not careful. If you really need the stomp and what a TLA brings it's better to go TL and spend the extra points elsewhere. Besides, with Alarielle on the table a regular TL becomes 10x more survivable. 

[Aezeal]

40 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

Not sure why you'd need the TLA and Alarielle together. You'll probably be using Alarielle's command ability, and between Alarielle's 3 spells and Drycha's 1 spell, you don't really need (and probably won't be able to use) the TLA's casting abilities (You've also said on numerous occasions how long your hero phase takes with a lot of casting). So really i don't see what value the TLA brings over the TL other than costing a bit more for a command ability you can't use and spell casting you don't need. 

I get that the TLA gets an item, which is nice and all, but not exactly helpful unless you have a solid plan on how you want to use him. TLA's seem to work best when bunkered with dryads in a forest. But this is kind of a liability if you have Alareille on the table, since she does mortal wounds to all units (even friendly units) if she ends a charge within 1" of a terrain feature (aka wyldwoods).

You may find having both in a single list causes your army to work against itself if you're not careful. If you really need the stomp and what a TLA brings it's better to go TL and spend the extra points elsewhere. Besides, with Alarielle on the table a regular TL becomes 10x more survivable. 

Well the points where not correct (see edit at end of post) so Drycha is out for now so I can keep my 2x20 dryads (and because I'had points left over I also have another 10 of them - against other opponents I might have kept 5 revenants but I know that against this player there will not be good targets for them). 

Not going gnarlroot is enough consession to my opponent to make my command phase quicker.

I've not really considered removing the TLA for a TL since I was/am actually planning on using the TLA as general (because command ability and command trait on him are better than on allarielle). And my TLA's never bunker in forests: they pic a nice big unit without rend 2 and charge into them, preferably somewhere in the middle of the table: the TLA will be fighting them in melee for several turns keeping them occupied while casting spells and shooting at characters in range. I always try to get most out of my TLA in all phases.. preferably it's in combat most of the game. Also you forget an ability on the TLA that even if the command ability and the magic where not relevant (but IMHO magic is ALWAYS relevant since it's a good option for 1-2 mortal wounds on a character): summoning forests on a 4+. Especially in the army I ended up with I've got NO way to get more forests so placing one on a 4+ first turn could REALLY help the dryads defending an objective in my own territory. 

Good point about the terrain and alarielle btw but I don't plan on using the behemoths close to each other. It all depends on what my opponent brings and how he deploys but I'm thinking a 2 prong attack of Alarielle and swords hunters on one side and TLA and scythe hunter on the other side is my base strategy. That way Alarielle can reroll 1's (due to hunters) and both  packs have rend -2 attacks. If he's got some really nasty stuff and puts it together I'll probably just crash all my hard hitters into that but that would be unusual since that sort of deployment doesn't happen often in objective games in my experience.

 

Quote

 

Alarielle, TLA (gnarled-armour, regrowth), 2x3 hunters (swords and scythes), 3 treekin, 50 dryads in 3 units. Seems balanced between magic behemoths and troops.

Spell on Alarielle remains the only choice.. regrowth? reaping? verdant blessing? (considered briarsheeth but I think Alarielle will be wanting magic shield too).

 

Which spell would you use on big A? Regrowth is the best but I've got in on the TLA and rule of one might make me wish I'd had another spell.. but 620 points in one unit means that more healing is better. If he decides to mass charge Alarielle The reaping might be nice.. but I also think she'll either die quickly or quickly whipe out her enemies before this becomes relevant. Verdant blessing for more forests is always an option.. but if the table is filled then it becomes useless.

[Cerve]

Did anyone tried the "life wizard hero" (can't remember the name) from the collegiate, into a gnarlrooot? I like the idea, adding ANOTHER healing spell in the list will be annoying for the enemy. That Drycha, Durthu or Hunters will never go down! 

[HadrielCaine]

Right team Sylvaneth, I'm off to a one day event in Barnsley on Sunday. 

Running my standard build:

TLA (Ranu's)

SoD (General, Realm Walker, Oaken Armour)

Branchwych (Ranu's)

5 Tree Revenants

5 Tree Revenants

5 Tree Revenants

3 Kurnoths (Greatbows)

3 Kurnoths (Greatbows)

3 Kurnoths (Greatswords)

5 Sisters of the Thorn

Gnarlroot Wargrove

Household

Free Spirits

2000 on the nose

I'll let you know how I get on!

A

[Mune]

Something that came to my mind:

In case woods would block LoS  (ghb2), like in other tt, how would you rate sylvaneth?

[Paul G]

Right team Sylvaneth, I'm off to a one day event in Barnsley on Sunday. 
Running my standard build:
TLA (Ranu's)
SoD (General, Realm Walker, Oaken Armour)
Branchwych (Ranu's)
5 Tree Revenants
5 Tree Revenants
5 Tree Revenants
3 Kurnoths (Greatbows)
3 Kurnoths (Greatbows)
3 Kurnoths (Greatswords)
5 Sisters of the Thorn
Gnarlroot Wargrove
Household
Free Spirits
2000 on the nose
I'll let you know how I get on!
A

Hey man, that at Barnsley Models and Games? I'm looking to go to the next one they do!

[Paul G]

Right team Sylvaneth, I'm off to a one day event in Barnsley on Sunday. 
Running my standard build:
TLA (Ranu's)
SoD (General, Realm Walker, Oaken Armour)
Branchwych (Ranu's)
5 Tree Revenants
5 Tree Revenants
5 Tree Revenants
3 Kurnoths (Greatbows)
3 Kurnoths (Greatbows)
3 Kurnoths (Greatswords)
5 Sisters of the Thorn
Gnarlroot Wargrove
Household
Free Spirits
2000 on the nose
I'll let you know how I get on!
A

Hey man, that at Barnsley Models and Games? I'm looking to go to the next one they do!

[HadrielCaine]

4 hours ago, Paul G said:

 

Hey man, that at Barnsley Models and Games? I'm looking to go to the next one they do!

 

It is indeed. My home town... has a proper gaming centre now I live in London, haha. Looking forward to it. I nipped in over Xmas and the staff and local gamers seemed great.

[Nico]

Good luck Adam!

[HadrielCaine]

Thanks @Nico any thoughts on spells? I usually double down on regrowth and verdant blessing (also verduous harmony form gnarlroot for survivability of Hunters). How do people find tree singing or dwellers?

[Nico]

I find the other spells are just junk - the offensive spells for Sylvaneth are just dire (other than Metamorphosis).

[HadrielCaine]

I know what you mean. Double verdant blessing just seems overkill. And I never bother with throne of vines. Wish I had a balewind for the branchwych's spell...

[Paul G]

How'd the tournament go@hadrielcaine? How was the venue also?


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[Cerve]

13 hours ago, Nico said:

I find the other spells are just junk - the offensive spells for Sylvaneth are just dire (other than Metamorphosis).

Gnarlroot Reaper with Circle+Balewind is pretty nice.

[HadrielCaine]

5 hours ago, Paul G said:

How'd the tournament go@hadrielcaine? How was the venue also?


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